Talk to me simple. What is up w/ the Palestinian & Israeli situation?

Grine said:
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the videos of it is ****ing insane
 
ballinsam23 said:
Glad a thread like this exists. I'm sure there are other people of Jewish descent on NT, but since I'm a regular poster I figured I pitch in.

My background is an observant Middle Eastern orthodox Sephardic jew. My family comes from Iran/Baghdad/Uzbekistan/USSR regions where millions of Jews lived way before WW2. Currently, half my family lives in the U.S. The other half in Israel.

The political corrupt power in Israel right now is completely in the wrong. Point blank.



Thank you. Zionism was created post WW2 by secular, many atheists even, none practicing Jews. After what they went through and saw from the Holocaust they thought that Jews cannot survive anywhere else and it was a danger for Jews to survive under a none Jewish government. So they created this movement.

Not one orthodox or religious rabbi gave permission or agreed with this idea. A majority of religious or practicing jews do not support the idea of Zionism because it is not based on the Torah. It's based on modernizing the definition of a Jew (which for us the only definition of being a Jew for thousands of years has been the Torah). They were trying to redefine Judaism by making Israel a state. As soon as the state was established, a lot of Jews supported bc of their most recent suppression by the Nazis so it was accepted from a "united" front. Dont get it confused though, the majority of secular (non-religious) Jews are Zionist and are completely wrong for thinking this way.

We don't believe in Zionism, it is an idea of anti-Torah and is the opposite of what identifies us as a Jew. Based on the Torah, it is not our land until the messiah comes. Therefore a lot of very religious orthodox Jews in Israel dont pay taxes and live in poverty there because technically you are not allowed to pay taxes (based on the Torah) if it is not your land.

Since then Israel has been illegally taking parts of the Palestinians part of the land. Leaving a lot of Arabs homeless, on top of what already was going on from the extremist sides from previous small wars.



Sadly, the corrupt political powers that currently exist in Israel have this agenda. They'd do anything to declare it "our land". History shows thatt land is won/conquered through war/power and it seems like the decades of suicide bombings from the Arab extremists, the extreme gentrification and poor treatment from the Israelis, and the obvious religious hatred compounding from this violence is all combining into war from both sides again.

Sadly, I think a permanent peace treaty will never exist.



Correct. We do believe we are the "chosen people". Chosen people means that G-d offered the Torah and its laws to all religions but only we accepted it. Strictly religious-based. That doesn't mean we feel we are better than anyone.

Of course, there are those that have an "I'm better than you" mindset, but don't let those Jews dictate the other ones from all over the world. Sad part is, most of those people aren't the orthodox Torah observant ones. It's the secular or reformed ones that don't observe any law and only project their Judaism when they feel offended or when it offers a positive return.



I agree. It's an unbreakable cycle. It starts with children and both sides have been oppressed for a long long time now. Children are literally raised to hate each other by some families.

Too many Jewish children have been killed by suicide bombings by Hezbollah and Hamas. Too many Palestinian children have died from being in the direct line of fire. The extremist Arab groups live among the innocent, so Israel says ok we found a leader living in a building by a school and they'd drop an airstrike there. It's completely disgusting and will 100% ruin your psyche. People's personal experiences define their hatred towards other groups.




Jews dont refer to themselves as white. Just as Jewish. A large majority of Jews have Middle Eastern (pre 1900s Iraq/Iran), Russian (USSR days), Egyptian (mainly Morroco) descent.

European Jews (1900s) and those that immigrated to Israel after war dont consider themselves as white either. This is not a white supremacy thing.



No. Most Palestinians that I know regardless of where they immigrated from (mostly Jordan, Syria, or Egypt) refer themselves as Arab.



Saddest part. I didnt like the Trevor Noah segment either because he was comparing the casualties in a way where he made it sound like it would be fine if 50 more innocent Jewish kids died to even out the number. Too many innocent are dying point blank. Palestinians dont have bomb shelters (argument here from Israel extremist side is that their money goes to Hezbollah and Hamas for weapons). So if 2000 rockets are fired at Israel, maybe there will be 5-10 casualties because literally everywhere in Israel there are bomb shelters in place from previous acts of terrorism and war.
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thanks for the insight. You seem very well balanced and fair on this, where you dont have to be.

can you further explain, when you mentioned, how some orthodox jewish people live
In poverty becuase they dont pay taxes? How are the two interconnected?

additionally, how does that affect policies to take land from
Palestinians over seemingly bs rulings and such.
 
Killed over 40+.. has ptsd and gets visits from the folks he killed haunting him til this day..

Why did you kill me??
Why do you kill me???
 
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Heartbreaking, inhumane, evil stuff being done to the Palestinians.

I shed so many tears watching that man raise his 12 kids without any clean water and no electricity.


Really illustrates the evil and inhumane mind of the zionists.

Their aim isn’t to just eliminate the Palestinians from their homeland, but their goal is to slowly kill them and tighten up the noose inch by inch while they watching them suffer and lie dead before their eyes, kind of as a sport to their Zionism fantasies.

2 million people caged in like animals, nowhere to go, nowhere to grow. Just being bombed and bombed over and over.
 
There is not a more sensitive/controversial topic to talk about more than the conflict between the Palestinians and Israeli's.
Here's my article briefly describing the history between the two and what's currently happening.

I present facts and then some opinions.

Some will agree with this article and some will hate it. No matter what you say about it, someone won't agree.

Curious what you guys think?

https://www.unbiasedopinions.net/post/the-holy-land-dilemma-palestine-israel

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press and govt entities making this a hamas vs safety of israelis is outrageous when it was israeli jews who began attacking palestinians in an organized manner with the help of the idf. some sick twisted **** that's been manipulated by the cia and mossad
 
America voted to support all of this violence - for decades.

That control for oil to keep the USD afloat.

Post Nixon, every President was all for this. My speculation is, the next few Presidents voted after Biden (regardless of party) will have similar Palestinian stance. The only Presidential Candidates that proposed to cut Israeli funding is Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders.

At the end of the day, sacrificing Palestinian lives for American convenience is the way to go.
 
Please don’t listen to that garbage in the Joe Rogan interview. Lots of extreme lies there just in the first 2 minutes alone.
 
Most Jews in America as either very-pro Israel because they've been taught to be. Or they're Zionists.

From my experience, most of them aren't Zionist. They've just grown up to be pro-Israel.
 
Nereyda Vuelve Por Dios said:
can you further explain, when you mentioned, how some orthodox jewish people live
In poverty becuase they dont pay taxes? How are the two interconnected?

additionally, how does that affect policies to take land from
Palestinians over seemingly bs rulings and such.
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Has to do with false claim that Jews believe in Zionism. Zionism is not from the Torah. The Torah is what defines us, and it states that we are in exile until our messiah comes. Zionism does not believe in these laws/principles. The Torah does say that it will be our land but only when the messiah comes, since our messiah hasn’t come yet, Israel is not yet our land. Therefore those who are very very observant, but still want to live in the holy land (a land we believe is not ours yet), don’t pay taxes and choose to live in poverty. You only pay taxes on land you own.

Really all the bs started once that paper was signed in the late 1940s. The Israeli governments throughtout the years have been taking more and more land strictly from a power non violence grab. It didn’t help that terrorist groups were forming and suicide bombs started happening. Resentment and hatred started building. Clashes of religious beliefs on top of that, leading to various wars throughout the decades.
 
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Curious, for those that are Arab or are Muslim in religion, what does the Quran state in terms of the land of Israel or in terms of your own land?
 
ballinsam23 said:
The Israeli governments throughtout the years have been taking more and more land strictly from a power non violence grab.
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This is where I disagree with you on. Did you pull that info from Wikipedia? :lol:

So we’re just going to ignore the war that happened 1967?
 
ballinsam23 said:
Curious, for those that are Arab or are Muslim in religion, what does the Quran state in terms of the land of Israel or in terms of your own land?
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The Quran states:

"And remember when Moses said to his people: ‘O my people, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the people. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin'".

"And thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: ‘Dwell securely in the Promised Land.' And when the last warning will come to pass, We will gather you together in a mingled crowd."

So again, this isn’t about religion but more so it doesn’t give the right to usurp someone’s else’s land. For centuries, Jews, Christians and Muslims in peace, this has been misconstrued often.
 
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