that Syrian Civil War is NO JOKE VOL. over 1300 dead after alleged Nerve gas attack

[importfan90000]

Covertly using gulf allies to train a secular force? Been there.. DONE THAT! Operation Cyclone ring the bell? Oh yah that covert CIA mission that involved supplying arms and money to the Mujahideen militants and trained that one guy ... you know... what's his name... Osama Bin Laden! But I got you, it's different this time around, because after all there are good militants and bad militants out there.

Bingo!

You may dislike the fact but yes the CIA and other Western Intelligence Services are already slowly vetting and providing training to rebel forces in Jordan, arm shipment and aide is already coming from Gulf allies, if that could happen at a faster rate with an improved vetting system, than the result would be a better armed and better trained FSA, to counter Jabhut Al Nusra, leading to a three way stalemate in Syria that will give time for more moderate forces to begin the process of forming and administering government in Southern Syria, this is the same thing that Islamist are doing in Militant control territories in Northern Syria except the administration is operated under draconian Sharia Law. 

This would better help moderate voices to assume legitimate power in Syria after Assad is ousted. A stalemate is better than having to fill the power vacuum left by Assad should he overthrown too quickly by Islamic Forces funded by the elements in the Sunni Arab Gulf States, you would see a situation similar to the Civil War in Afghanistan 96-2001.

I'm in favor of limited strikes to target the chemical weapon delivery systems of the regime but I am also in favor of status quo in the conflict, the US Government should learn the lessons from our 10 years in Iraq not to come in gun blazing but to coordinator limited military action to achieve a long term strategic advantage that will not require boots on the ground. 

Given how everyone is war wary, and that the US military is not currently undergoing any troop movement in the area that would signal an invasion i.e. moving our infantry and marine divisions and logistical support into Saudi Arabia. Obama is unlikely trying to deploy any ground forces to the conflict.  

 

[rillo561]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/09/08/syrian-rebels-take-christian-village/2781763/

 

[sundoobie]

You may dislike the fact but yes the CIA and other Western Intelligence Services are already slowly vetting and providing training to rebel forces in Jordan, arm shipment and aide is already coming from Gulf allies, if that could happen at a faster rate with an improved vetting system, than the result would be a better armed and better trained FSA, to counter Jabhut Al Nusra, leading to a three way stalemate in Syria that will give time for more moderate forces to begin the process of forming and administering government in Southern Syria, this is the same thing that Islamist are doing in Militant control territories in Northern Syria except the administration is operated under draconian Sharia Law. 
  

Yah I read that briefing last week about 50 US trained Syrian fighters are now in Syria conducting operations.

I also read Gen. Martin Dempsey's letter that stated...

Train, Advise, and Assist the Opposition. This option uses nonlethal forces to train and advise the opposition on tasks ranging from weapons employment to tactical planning. We could also offer assistance in the form of intelligence and logistics. The scale could range from several hundred to several thousand troops with the costs varying accordingly, but estimated at $500 million per year initially. The option requires safe areas outside Syria as well as support from our regional partners. Over time, the impact would be the improvement in opposition capabilities. Risks include extremists gaining access to additional capabilities, retaliatory crossborder attacks, and insider attacks or inadvertent association with war crimes due to vetting difficulties.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...mpsey-lays-out-us-military-options-for-syria/

500 million dollars to help create new Osama Bin Laden's!

Gotta love it!

 

[importfan90000]

Yah I read that briefing last week about 50 US trained Syrian fighters are now in Syria conducting operations.

I also read Gen. Martin Dempsey's letter that stated...
500 million dollars to help create new Osama Bin Laden's!

Gotta love it!

You fail to understand that the Islamist are gaining ground due to better organization and better equipment, the FSA became frustrated with how slowly arms and logistics was flowing from Jordan into Syria, that is why they begin to defect to militant groups who had the backing of Sunni elements in the Gulf States. Well over 1,000 fighters have been trained by Western Intelligence Operators in Syria, it just doesn't grab the headlines because it is covert action. 

As I have said the Islamist are already consolidating their power Northern Syria by implementing a system of government administration based on Sharia Law, given time and failure to support the remaining moderates will all defect and the Rebellion will turn into an Islamic Jihad. They'll continue to consolidate their power and when Assad is ousted as he will be, you will have the making of another Islamic State one that borders Jordan and Iraq with access to Assad weapons inventory and threaten stability in the whole region. 

Guess you would rather have that than to find means to continue a stalemate until their is an organized opposition that can take power after Assad. Choice is yours...  

 

[kspar]

^ like you didnt know that was the plan at first. you dont secure chemical weapons by only bombing the **** out of a country. you need boots on the ground too. if the military wasnt going in who would have to do it? yepp the ****** rebels.

Well heres the thing. There have been "boots on the ground" in Syria for the last 10 years. The CIA, much like in Afghanistan have been there training rebel forces for years, as well as quite a few SOCOM forces (Army SF, Rangers, MarSOC, SEALS, ect). That isnt technically "boots on the ground", because most of those forces act independently of any military chain of command. I'm cool with that. Im cool with doing anything to aid the civilian population there...anything short of arming a new group of insurgents.

so you are telling me the gov had special forces and intelligence agencies in syria training people to undermine the representatives of a sovereign nation :x and you are "cool aiding civilian population" after their country is in flames and these parties (in)directly caused 100.000 deaths?

 

[sundoobie]

You fail to understand that the Islamist are gaining ground due to better organization and better equipment, the FSA became frustrated with how slowly arms and logistics was flowing from Jordan into Syria, that is why they begin to defect to militant groups who had the backing of Sunni elements in the Gulf States. Well over 1,000 fighters have been trained by Western Intelligence Operators in Syria, it just doesn't grab the headlines because it is covert action. 

As I have said the Islamist are already consolidating their power Northern Syria by implementing a system of government administration based on Sharia Law, given time and failure to support the remaining moderates will all defect and the Rebellion will turn into an Islamic Jihad. They'll continue to consolidate their power and when Assad is ousted as he will be, you will have the making of another Islamic State one that borders Jordan and Iraq with access to Assad weapons inventory and threaten stability in the whole region. 

Guess you would rather have that than to find means to continue a stalemate until their is an organized opposition that can take power after Assad. Choice is yours...  

Islamic Jihad is already there as you already stated! No AMOUNT of money, arms, training facilities, cheeseburgers, bombs, or military intervention will stop their quest of Islamic Sharia law in that region.

Am I suppose to applaud that 1,000 Syrian fighters were trained by US personnel? That's a good thing to train future TERRORISTS? Let me guess.. Because these 'terrorists' are moderates whom we can 110% trust will never turn into Islamic Extremists and won't EVER go against the US?

Give me a break with your fairy tales!

 

[sundoobie]

so you are telling me the gov had special forces and intelligence agencies in syria training people to undermine the representatives of a sovereign nation :x and you are "cool aiding civilian population" after their country is in flames and these parties (in)directly caused 100.000 deaths?

Not only is it cool that we have military clandestine operations in Syria without Congressional approval, but it's also cool how the US can fight proxy wars against Iran/Russia in the guise of "helping" the Syrian people!

 

[reggiekiller]

 

so you are telling me the gov had special forces and intelligence agencies in syria training people to undermine the representatives of a sovereign nation

and you are "cool aiding civilian population" after their country is in flames and these parties (in)directly caused 100.000 deaths?

Not only is it cool that we have military clandestine operations in Syria without Congressional approval, but it's also cool how the US can fight proxy wars against Iran/Russia in the guise of "helping" the Syrian people!

check my previous posts.  Obama does not, (nor has any president since 1942) needed congressional approval to deploy military forces to any country.

And clandestine ops are everywhere bro.  The CIA Clandestine Ops division were the first forces in Afghanistan after 9/11

 

[reggiekiller]

 

 

^ like you didnt know that was the plan at first. you dont secure chemical weapons by only bombing the **** out of a country. you need boots on the ground too. if the military wasnt going in who would have to do it? yepp the ****** rebels.

Well heres the thing. There have been "boots on the ground" in Syria for the last 10 years. The CIA, much like in Afghanistan have been there training rebel forces for years, as well as quite a few SOCOM forces (Army SF, Rangers, MarSOC, SEALS, ect). That isnt technically "boots on the ground", because most of those forces act independently of any military chain of command. I'm cool with that. Im cool with doing anything to aid the civilian population there...anything short of arming a new group of insurgents.

so you are telling me the gov had special forces and intelligence agencies in syria training people to undermine the representatives of a sovereign nation

and you are "cool aiding civilian population" after their country is in flames and these parties (in)directly caused 100.000 deaths?

Huh, how did they directly or indirectly cause 100k deaths?  

but yeah I'm cool with the rest of it.  Most of what our military does involves training other countries military forces.  That pic that I posted where I was smoking hookah in Jordan was in an operation where we were training the Jordanian "Rangers" (they suck..bad) to fight in Afghanistan.

 

[acbboyz84]

Just when i thought we can't get anymore cocky and arrogant as a country

 

[3am scholar]

http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/

 

[sundoobie]

check my previous posts.  Obama does not, (nor has any president since 1942) needed congressional approval to deploy military forces to any country.

And clandestine ops are everywhere bro.  The CIA Clandestine Ops division were the first forces in Afghanistan after 9/11

I understand the Executive powers of the President. I would have preferred Obama to strike immediately as soon as he received his Daily briefings on the chemical attacks. After all he is the one that is privy to classified intel not the general public so why is Obama asking for Congressional approval? Is it because the coward doesn't want his approval ratings to plummet? That's working the political angle instead of doing his job as Commander in Chief.

Now that TMZ, late night comedians, soccer moms are having conversations on this... the situation has spiraled out of control and it' s making Obama look even weaker. Plus the enemy now knows just by tuning in to CNN, and therefore Syria and it's allies can plan our attack accordingly.

Crazy that Putin is now looking more like the Nobel Peace winner than Obama!

 

[nawghtyhare]

check my previous posts.  Obama does not, (nor has any president since 1942) needed congressional approval to deploy military forces to any country.

And clandestine ops are everywhere bro.  The CIA Clandestine Ops division were the first forces in Afghanistan after 9/11

I understand the Executive powers of the President. I would have preferred Obama to strike immediately as soon as he received his Daily briefings on the chemical attacks. After all he is the one that is privy to classified intel not the general public so why is Obama asking for Congressional approval? Is it because the coward doesn't want his approval ratings to plummet? That's working the political angle instead of doing his job as Commander in Chief.

Now that TMZ, late night comedians, soccer moms are having conversations on this... the situation has spiraled out of control and it' s making Obama look even weaker. Plus the enemy now knows just by tuning in to CNN, and therefore Syria and it's allies can plan our attack accordingly.

Crazy that Putin is now looking more like the Nobel Peace winner than Obama!

u have a few good points

 

[me love nutella]

People here are talking all about oh how the islamists might take over Syria nonetheless forget the Muslim Shiite power axi that is allied with Syria which are religious extremists. Hello! Despite Assad being of baathist secular ideology with his regime, he is allied with south Lebanon's Hezbollah and the Iranian regime which is rampant with ayatollahs. He is just as extreme. What would be the difference??? He is a butcher and manipulating the media quite a lot talking about oh the rebels are Al Qaeda when that is B.S the rebel force is mostly composed of secular local Syrians and defectors who infact are in rivalry with the jihadists.

But, I st ill do not approve of a u.s. military intervention.

 

[createdestroy]

check my previous posts.  Obama does not, (nor has any president since 1942) needed congressional approval to deploy military forces to any country.

And clandestine ops are everywhere bro.  The CIA Clandestine Ops division were the first forces in Afghanistan after 9/11

Is it because the coward doesn't want his approval ratings to plummet?

That is how democracy is supposed to work.... the opinions of the population directly affect the political careers of politicians...thus forcing them to do what the population wants them to

 

[reggiekiller]

Wait did dude say Obama was a coward because he wanted the approval of Americans?

Where have you been since 1775?  lol

 

[sundoobie]

That is how democracy is supposed to work.... the opinions of the population directly affect the political careers of politicians...thus forcing them to do what the population wants them to

Bill Clinton said it best...

"You just think how lame you’d be… suppose I had let a million people, two million people be refugees out of Kosovo, a couple hundred thousand people die, and they say, ‘You could have stopped this by dropping a few bombs. Why didn’t you do it?’ And I say, ‘because the House of Representatives voted 75% against it?’" Clinton said. "You look like a total wuss, and you would be."

"If you refuse to act and you cause a calamity, the one thing you cannot say when all the eggs have been broken is, ‘Oh my god, two years ago there was a poll that said 80 percent of you were against it.’ You look like a total fool," Clinton said.

 

[imasoleman18]

 

[createdestroy]

That is how democracy is supposed to work.... the opinions of the population directly affect the political careers of politicians...thus forcing them to do what the population wants them to

Bill Clinton said it best...

"You just think how lame you’d be… suppose I had let a million people, two million people be refugees out of Kosovo, a couple hundred thousand people die, and they say, ‘You could have stopped this by dropping a few bombs. Why didn’t you do it?’ And I say, ‘because the House of Representatives voted 75% against it?’" Clinton said. "You look like a total wuss, and you would be."

"If you refuse to act and you cause a calamity, the one thing you cannot say when all the eggs have been broken is, ‘Oh my god, two years ago there was a poll that said 80 percent of you were against it.’ You look like a total fool," Clinton said.

I guess George W. would agree.^

 

[rico x hood]

Is there concrete proof yet that the chemical weapons came from Assad?

The President is speaking now btw.

 

[nymartin90]

Is there concrete proof yet that the chemical weapons came from Assad?

The President is speaking now btw.

the problem is that sarin is easy to create and manufacture especially with trained Mujahideen from across the Arab World. Some dispute that the rebels who previously used Sarin against Aleppo 5 months ago were stockpiling sarin in these neighborhoods, where they  were being created in the backyards of rebel sympathizers, were hit by government artillery shelling and exploded thus spreading to other neighborhoods.

Also here is the entire interview Assad had with Charlie Rose this weekend.

 

[DrizzyNYC]

Exactly! After the bombings then what? We're just suppose to assume that the 'good' rebels will secure the chemical weapon sites and wait for the UN envoy (which will most likely be represented by US military forces and personnel) to get there and dispose of em?

I am betting Obama in his briefing tomorrow to state something in the lines of...
or

Qft

 

[snaggykicks]

 

[nomnom]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/politics/syria-arming-rebels/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"Official says CIA-funded weapons have begun to reach Syrian rebels; rebels deny receipt"

 

[reggiekiller]

Contra anyone?