The Elite Chris Paul Thread

Stockton and Payton lost to the greatest player in the history of the sport. Kidd lost to one of the best dynasties in the sport with a team full of mediocre players that got overpaid because of Kidd. Paul hasn't done anything with a pretty decent roster and a guy in Blake Griffin that some (Ira Winderman) referred to as potentially better than Kevin Durant.
 
I give credit for making it to the finals. Of course it's not winning it all, but it's really not easy to do. Everyone can't hoist the trophy at the end.
 
Oh, so we can make excuses for them but not CP3?

Got it.

A loss is a loss, man.

Neither were able to get it done as the man, but they're better than CP3?

I don't even care if someone thinks that those guys are better than him, they're all amazing players.

The logic is just silly.
 
none of those guys had a 19 point lead against an inferior team in an elimination game in the second round squandered away because of their lack of leadership.
 
JohnnyRedStorm said:
Stockton and Payton lost to the greatest player in the history of the sport. Kidd lost to one of the best dynasties in the sport with a team full of mediocre players that got overpaid because of Kidd. Paul hasn't done anything with a pretty decent roster and a guy in Blake Griffin that some (Ira Winderman) referred to as potentially better than Kevin Durant.
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If you're comparing the mid to late 90s Utah Jazz and Seatle Sonics. Both deep teams...to a Clippers team that has two superstars, an overrated center...and one of the worst benches in recent memory...idk what to tell you.

This doesn't excuse Cp3. He has enough to make a deep push.I agree, he should have more success. But everything isn't black and white...playing in the West. Catching the Spurs and Okc in the 2nd rounds etc etc. and it's pretty damn clear that when its all said and done...he's going to be one of the best PG's to ever lace em up.
 
Hyper said:
Oh, so we can make excuses for them but not CP3?

Got it.

A loss is a loss, man.

Neither were able to get it done as the man, but they're better than CP3?

I don't even care if someone thinks that those guys are better than him, they're all amazing players.

The logic is just silly.
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I'm not adding to the narrative but in terms of explaining what it is you want, they lost in a Finals, Chris can't get to the Conference Finals. Yes, losing is losing. But Payton and Stockton played in several Conference Finals, and multiple NBA Finals.

Chris? Still waiting a decade later.

Right or wrong, that's the reason you see some say Payton/Stockton, but not CP3.


I actually like the way Simmons pointed out Stockton/Malone. They couldn't do anything in the 80's vs Magic and the Lakers. Then they had trouble getting past the early 90's Blazers, Barkley's Suns, and then Hakeem's Rockets. Finally, as they reach the end of their career, they somehow manage back to back Finals. Why? KG, Shaq/Kobe, Duncan were all kids and the old school guys bowed out. The Jazz finally broke thru. Otherwise, Stockton too might have never reached a Finals himself. But this is all just peeling back layers and examining how things came to pass and what not, no right or wrong answer to any of this.
 
it is what it is but i can't put chris paul into the top 5 over any of those guys. top 10, that's a fair discussion, but this whole thread is about the top 5 or top 2 argument.
 
I think another problem is you look at the ROUND he lost in, not actually WHO he lost to. You go on to say that Kidd, GP, Stockton etc lost to the best...well cp3 has lost to the best team of this era, the Spurs...who he just beat...and KD. Who potentially could finish at the top of the All time scoring list and a top 10-15 player of all time.
 
i was never on the paul slander bus like this till he let his team choke away this series. rockets had no business coming back and winning. as a leader paul needs to wake his team up during that comeback and get them to focus and close the series out.
 
WavyCrocket said:
JohnnyRedStorm said:
Stockton and Payton lost to the greatest player in the history of the sport. Kidd lost to one of the best dynasties in the sport with a team full of mediocre players that got overpaid because of Kidd. Paul hasn't done anything with a pretty decent roster and a guy in Blake Griffin that some (Ira Winderman) referred to as potentially better than Kevin Durant.
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If you're comparing the mid to late 90s Utah Jazz and Seatle Sonics. Both deep teams...to a Clippers team that has two superstars, an overrated center...and one of the worst benches in recent memory...idk what to tell you.

This doesn't excuse Cp3. He has enough to make a deep push.I agree, he should have more success. But everything isn't black and white...playing in the West. Catching the Spurs and Okc in the 2nd rounds etc etc. and it's pretty damn clear that when its all said and done...he's going to be one of the best PG's to ever lace em up.
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That group you are tearing down, was up 3-1, one of those without Paul even playing, on the road, and then had a 19 point lead, at home, with Paul, and somehow lost, all of it. Not to mention not even showing up for game 7, never once leading, not even for one second of a 48 minute do or die game.


I mean, iono. May take a while to full grasp everything CP3 has gone thru over the years. But this one right here, this is a black eye. Doesn't indict his whole career, but it does hurt the ol legacy narrative a smidge. Kinda has to. No diff than Bron in 2011 Finals, or Kobe in 2004 Finals, but those were Finals, they reached the peak of their conferences. Losing to teams that win it all. If Houston gets beat by GS, Paul lost to a team that also didn't win it's own conference???? :\
 
WavyCrocket said:
I think another problem is you look at the ROUND he lost in, not actually WHO he lost to. You go on to say that Kidd, GP, Stockton etc lost to the best...well cp3 has lost to the best team of this era, the Spurs...who he just beat...and KD. Who potentially could finish at the top of the All time scoring list and a top 10-15 player of all time.
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What about the Rockets? Thunder didn't even make the Finals last year.
 
Payton and Kidd are both champions, and I dare someone to contend that they were just nobodies on their championship squads. They contributed, big time, both of them.

And before winning Finals where they weren't the best players on their teams, they had each been main players to 2 Finals losses each.

Chris has accomplished nothing CLOSE to that.

Tony Parker's been in the West this whole time. 4 rings. "But, Timmy & Pop."

Fair enough, but he's hit his own shots and made his own steals and dropped dimes that Chris has had opportunities to accomplish.
 
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Parker was the man for one of those rings too. Think it was against the Pistons when he earned Finals MVP.
 
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CP1708 said:
That group you are tearing down, was up 3-1, one of those without Paul even playing, on the road, and then had a 19 point lead, at home, with Paul, and somehow lost, all of it. Not to mention not even showing up for game 7, never once leading, not even for one second of a 48 minute do or die game.


I mean, iono. May take a while to full grasp everything CP3 has gone thru over the years. But this one right here, this is a black eye. Doesn't indict his whole career, but it does hurt the ol legacy narrative a smidge. Kinda has to. No diff than Bron in 2011 Finals, or Kobe in 2004 Finals, but those were Finals, they reached the peak of their conferences. Losing to teams that win it all. If Houston gets beat by GS, Paul lost to a team that also didn't win it's own conference???? :\
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Oh I agree. This wasn't good. I said plenty of times there was no excuse for this. He was a 12 minutes away from what seems the "promise land" by his detractors. He did show up for game 7 though. The rest of the Clips didn't.

But while you mention the bad, dude literally beat the team many had as the favorites coming out of the west. The defending champs. Problem was, it was the first round...so it's not respected. And he took matters into his own hands on a bad hammy. The hero ball everyone craves for.

Like I said. You take the good, and the bad...access them and you come out with something a lil more clear.
 
JohnnyRedStorm said:
Parker was the man for one of those rings too. Think it was against the Pistons when he earned Finals MVP.
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Nope. Against Bron

Timmy was still the best player. Timmy averaged 21 & 10 in the 07 finals and anchored the defense. Kinda like how Kawhi won it last year...but Timmy was the best player.

When the Spurs went to a Tony Parker led offense...they got bounced in the 1st round. They got more balanced and Timmy got in better shape and more minutes...and walk. Champions.
 
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He showed up in game 7 when the team was already getting smacked after the first. His numbers in game 7 are just as hollow as blakes
 
Who said they were nobodies?

All I said was that none of them won squat in their primes.

Stockton, Payton, Kidd have a whopping 2 rings between them, and I'm pretty sure both Payton and Kidd were 38 when they rode another superstar to the promise land.

CP3 is 30, he has plenty of time.
 
Addict4Sneakers said:
He showed up in game 7 when the team was already getting smacked after the first. His numbers in game 7 are just as hollow as blakes
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This. He has a habit of doing that all the time. Luckily the Spurs were more washed.
 
[quote name="Hyper"]Who said they were nobodies?

All I said was that none of them won squat in their primes.

Stockton, Payton, Kidd have a whopping 2 rings between them, and I'm pretty sure both Payton and Kidd were 38 when they rode another superstar to the promise land.

CP3 is 30, he has plenty of time.[/quote]"Who said they were nobodies?"

"rode another superstar"

K.

And Stockton, Payton, & Kidd have 5 Finals losses in their primes, 6 if you count the Lakers in Payton's prime (I don't).

Let's not pretend that's 'not accomplishing squat' so we can all pretend to be reasonable here.
 
Timmy was still the best player. Timmy averaged 21 & 10 in the 07 finals and anchored the defense. Kinda like how Kawhi won it last year...but Timmy was the best player.
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Ska, see? :lol:
 
DarthSka said:
[quote name="Hyper"]Who said they were nobodies?

All I said was that none of them won squat in their primes.

Stockton, Payton, Kidd have a whopping 2 rings between them, and I'm pretty sure both Payton and Kidd were 38 when they rode another superstar to the promise land.

CP3 is 30, he has plenty of time.
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"Who said they were nobodies?"

"rode another superstar"

K.

And Stockton, Payton, & Kidd have 5 Finals losses in their primes, 6 if you count the Lakers in Payton's prime (I don't).

Let's not pretend that's 'not accomplishing squat' so we can all pretend to be reasonable here.[/quote]

Rly, bruh? :lol:

I expect better from someone like you.

We're gonna sit here and deny that Gary/Kidd rode another superstar to a ring?

Stop it.

How many rings does 5 or 6 Finals losses equate to?

Just curious.
 
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Like I said, they contributed, GREATLY, to their championships.

That's hardly how I define "Rode another superstar."
 
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