- 16,335
- 13
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
Jason Vargas is not a "stud."
The Major League Baseball Post
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by wildkycat,
- Start date
- 58,180
- 29,616
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2005
Maybe not by definition, but he's definitely one of the better pitchers right now and no one knows about him.
- 28,017
- 9,118
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2007
Without question.
Bend_The_Knee
formerly gotholesinmysocks
- 61,555
- 23,306
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2008
nope!!!
i heard about a fight between figgins and the manager...,whats that all about?
- 25,183
- 13,240
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
Vargas has been kinda lucky this year... He's been decent. Playing in that ballpark makes pitchers better though... Heavy flyball guy that doesn't miss a ton of bats playing in a cavern of a ballpark. Meh.
He's worth more to Seattle than I imagine he would be to anybody else... He's the kind of guy the Mariners can hold onto a put together a good enough rotation though as long as Ichiro and Franklyn are in the OF..
He's worth more to Seattle than I imagine he would be to anybody else... He's the kind of guy the Mariners can hold onto a put together a good enough rotation though as long as Ichiro and Franklyn are in the OF..
- 3,486
- 93
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- 25,183
- 13,240
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
That movie was always going to be crap... There's nothing about that book that says motion picture...
- 25,474
- 650
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
im takea wild guess and say CP is ant money ball
^
It's alright, I know it has it's values and what not, I don't deny that, but it's not as if teams can just trot out numeric kings that get on base alot, or play great D, or throw the most amount of pitches that end up in ground balls, and they're just going to beat teams with 200 million dollar payrolls.
Is it useful to compete, and make up some of the difference? Yes, sure it can. But go out and win big off it? Naw, I don't buy that. Yanks don't win cuz of moneyball. Phillies don't win cuz of moneyball. I'm just not a full believer is all.
And I mean, the damn creator of it has done what really? Couple nice seasons, make it to the first round, maybe the ALCS, and then bow out once the elite teams get there. That's just swell.
It's alright, I know it has it's values and what not, I don't deny that, but it's not as if teams can just trot out numeric kings that get on base alot, or play great D, or throw the most amount of pitches that end up in ground balls, and they're just going to beat teams with 200 million dollar payrolls.
Is it useful to compete, and make up some of the difference? Yes, sure it can. But go out and win big off it? Naw, I don't buy that. Yanks don't win cuz of moneyball. Phillies don't win cuz of moneyball. I'm just not a full believer is all.
And I mean, the damn creator of it has done what really? Couple nice seasons, make it to the first round, maybe the ALCS, and then bow out once the elite teams get there. That's just swell.
- 8,139
- 88
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2005
So a team that makes quick outs, plays terrible D or throw the most amount of pitches that end up as flyballs that leave a park can beat teams with 200 million dollar payrolls???
People like to clown sabermetrics but they do have some role in most team's player evaulation most recently the Chicago Cubs
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5292732
- 25,183
- 13,240
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
I don't think anybody ever said Moneyball = Championships. Ever.
Agreed. That's all I was saying. You said nothing in that book says motion picture, I added, or winning. Simple.
And Bell, I didn't claim one way or another, use sabermetrics all you want. I'm sure they're very useful for certain players/teams, just please don't pretend that those sabermetrics win anything or even make up for a lack of something on a given team. That's all, no big deal or anything, I just laugh at the amount of hype that book gets and credit that's given when it really hasn't led any teams into some sort of dominace or groundbreaking way to win anything. *shrugs* It's a new tool to evaluate guys and what not and I'm sure it will grow over time, but it will never be the cause for any team to win a world series.
- 74,683
- 24,080
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2008
Can you say that, though, when their best players are homegrown?Originally Posted by CP1708
^
It's alright, I know it has it's values and what not, I don't deny that, but it's not as if teams can just trot out numeric kings that get on base alot, or play great D, or throw the most amount of pitches that end up in ground balls, and they're just going to beat teams with 200 million dollar payrolls.
Is it useful to compete, and make up some of the difference? Yes, sure it can. But go out and win big off it? Naw, I don't buy that. Yanks don't win cuz of moneyball. Phillies don't win cuz of moneyball. I'm just not a full believer is all.
And I mean, the damn creator of it has done what really? Couple nice seasons, make it to the first round, maybe the ALCS, and then bow out once the elite teams get there. That's just swell.
- 3,486
- 93
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
The funniest thing is that if you look at our team this year, WE'RE not even following moneyball anymore. The team's philosophy has been trying to stray away from the "walk, walk, 3 run bomb" style that we had when Tejada and Chavez were 35 homer threats in the early 2000's.
Moneyball was just the face of changing philosophies in baseball, and these philosophies are currently being tweaked and changed every year. With the gap between the have's and have-not's getting bigger each year, the little guys have to keep trying to find new ways to compete; it's never going to stop (as long as there isn't a salary cap in baseball).
BTW, the A's are 6-2 since the break.
Moneyball was just the face of changing philosophies in baseball, and these philosophies are currently being tweaked and changed every year. With the gap between the have's and have-not's getting bigger each year, the little guys have to keep trying to find new ways to compete; it's never going to stop (as long as there isn't a salary cap in baseball).
BTW, the A's are 6-2 since the break.
Spoiler [+]
too bad the Rangers never lose
- 8,139
- 88
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2005
- 25,183
- 13,240
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
The only issue I take with the Moneyball idea is the whole "never draft HS pitchers" crap...
Unless you're drafting at the very top of the draft, college guys that project as aces are few and very far between. You'll get guys with a better chance to be solid major leaguers, but you're hardly ever going to find ace-upside guys... High school pitchers, IMO, are THE way to go. Just don't love college guys at all.
College hitters and high school pitchers.
Unless you're drafting at the very top of the draft, college guys that project as aces are few and very far between. You'll get guys with a better chance to be solid major leaguers, but you're hardly ever going to find ace-upside guys... High school pitchers, IMO, are THE way to go. Just don't love college guys at all.
College hitters and high school pitchers.
- 32,767
- 27,424
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
1. Moneyball can be very easilly made into a compelling film, the story of young people coming up and upseting the old status quo is a tried and true compelling theme in cinema. If anybody expects this to be a 100% accurate docu drama better forget that, because from the script I read it's going to be far more on the drama side of "docu-drama" think baseball version of danmed united (excellent film, higly recomened even if you nothing about soccer like me.)
2. Very few people seem to understand the meaning and purpose of moneyball, it's not about OBP or anything like that, it's not even necessarilly, about stats. It is simply about finding inefficiencies in the market place. The money ball philosophy is the only way small market teams can compete with the more wealthy clubs. You have to find ineficiencies and undervalued assets if you even hope to compete for a playoff spot. Nobody said it guerrenteed chmapionships but what it does is allow teams with small payrolls to maximize there resources and stay competitive despite in some cases getting out spent 2 to 1. Unfortunately big market teams catch up, A's were finding cheap players who excelled at getting on base, then the Red Sox hired Bill James father of sabermeyrics and they caught up and broke curses. The Rays and the maeiners found a undervalued asset in feilding, the red sox's caught up to that by trading for beltre, scutaro and mike cameron. It's getting more and more difficult, and small market teams pretty much have to have every gamble fall right for them even make the playoffs.
2. The fact of the matter is that the oakland a's success with sabermetrics did revolutionize baseball and the way front offices are run, Sabermetric departments exist in some capacity in 90% of all franchises, the types of people who get hired to be GM's and executives have competly changed and the mosy reliable and effective way to quantify majore league talent is through sabrmetrics not to say that traditional scouting does not have it's merits it will always be important, but more so on the amateur level. The only team left with pure old school traditional values are the royals...so yeah. It doesn't guerentee victory but it is the most effective way to build a team and a million times more effective than traditional baseball scouting. Spelling bad typing on a phone.
2. Very few people seem to understand the meaning and purpose of moneyball, it's not about OBP or anything like that, it's not even necessarilly, about stats. It is simply about finding inefficiencies in the market place. The money ball philosophy is the only way small market teams can compete with the more wealthy clubs. You have to find ineficiencies and undervalued assets if you even hope to compete for a playoff spot. Nobody said it guerrenteed chmapionships but what it does is allow teams with small payrolls to maximize there resources and stay competitive despite in some cases getting out spent 2 to 1. Unfortunately big market teams catch up, A's were finding cheap players who excelled at getting on base, then the Red Sox hired Bill James father of sabermeyrics and they caught up and broke curses. The Rays and the maeiners found a undervalued asset in feilding, the red sox's caught up to that by trading for beltre, scutaro and mike cameron. It's getting more and more difficult, and small market teams pretty much have to have every gamble fall right for them even make the playoffs.
2. The fact of the matter is that the oakland a's success with sabermetrics did revolutionize baseball and the way front offices are run, Sabermetric departments exist in some capacity in 90% of all franchises, the types of people who get hired to be GM's and executives have competly changed and the mosy reliable and effective way to quantify majore league talent is through sabrmetrics not to say that traditional scouting does not have it's merits it will always be important, but more so on the amateur level. The only team left with pure old school traditional values are the royals...so yeah. It doesn't guerentee victory but it is the most effective way to build a team and a million times more effective than traditional baseball scouting. Spelling bad typing on a phone.
- 8,956
- 39
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
Joey Votto has 25 home runs.
- 7,993
- 10
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2007
Brooks Conrad did it again....pinch hit a grand slam in a 10-5 victory against the Marlins.
- 3,486
- 93
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
Never thought I'd hear the name brooks conrad again.
Outside of the clutchness, he's still trash though.
- 8,406
- 41
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2009
7.5 games out
- 58,180
- 29,616
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2005
This Sunday Night game is fun. I don't have cable right now so I only sparingly watch the games that broadcast on ESPN3.
There's only been one 1-2-3 inning. Cubs are playing well and you can tell that the really want this game to get their momentum on the upswing for the rest of the summer, and the Cards do not want to lose any ground at all to the Reds.
This is baseball.
There's only been one 1-2-3 inning. Cubs are playing well and you can tell that the really want this game to get their momentum on the upswing for the rest of the summer, and the Cards do not want to lose any ground at all to the Reds.
This is baseball.