The Official NBA Thread: Celtics Lead 3-1 in the NBA Finals | RIP Jerry West

datznasty said:
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osh kosh bosh said:
Steph is over KD right now.
Steph has gotten it done, in adverse desperate situations, the last ring sealed it.

KD rings with the stacked golden state team are difficult to take serious and tell us relatively little about his greatness.
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KD is my man buy I doubt he even takes ylthose rings seriously. But he knew this was going to happen before he went to GSW.
 
Maximus Meridius said:
The same Phil Jackson that said

"Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times," Jackson said to ESPN.

And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."

Asked about where that leaves Michael Jordan, Jackson added, "I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms.

"I asked him to be a playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that."


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In all fairness Phil never had to ask Jordan to be a playmaker because he had Scottie Pippen on the roster.
 
If Steve was THAT dude he should’ve EASILY dealt with the Raptors in ‘19

He had every opportunity to earn his 1st fmvp then.

If Steve was THAT dude he wouldn’t have let a 3-1 comeback happen.

Draymond had a solid case for fmvp had they won.

He got 1 fmvp so credit where credit is due. I think another fmvp would make an interesting conversation about who’s better between he and Kobe. Not sure if it firmly puts him in the top 10 tho.

Steph and Kobe are appropriately rated, it’s their fans that make them overrated.
 
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osh kosh bosh said:
Resume Anlysis is the lowest form of basketball thought.

People use resumes analysis when it benefits the guy they like and then abandon it when it doesn't.

We have to look at resumes when talking about Kobe but we can ignore it for Bill Russell.

It's all confirmation bias.
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And not to mention sooner or later, people will be able to use the modern eras players' resumes against folks that they shouldn't be able to compared to because of Resume Analysis. But you are correct, people are very inconsistent in when it is allowed to be used.

addict4sneakers addict4sneakers You are saying Phil DID as Mike to do it? If so, Phil was talking out the side of his neck in that quote above then. But the point I was making was it was more imperative that Kobe was used in that role compared to Jordan because of who Mike played with.

Hope you are having a beautiful Sunday morning.
 
DCAllAfrican said:
And not to mention sooner or later, people will be able to use the modern eras players' resumes against folks that they shouldn't be able to compared to because of Resume Analysis. But you are correct, people are very inconsistent in when it is allowed to be used.

addict4sneakers addict4sneakers You are saying Phil DID as Mike to do it? If so, Phil was talking out the side of his neck in that quote above then. But the point I was making was it was more imperative that Kobe was used in that role compared to Jordan because of who Mike played with.

Hope you are having a beautiful Sunday morning.
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thesportsrush.com

“Michael Jordan realized even if he shot 40 times, he couldn’t overcome some teams”: Phil Jackson dished on how Bulls no. 23 started trusting his teammates

Michael Jordan needed to realize that he had to trust his teammates much more often if he wanted championships, according to Phil Jackson.
thesportsrush.com thesportsrush.com

www.usatoday.com

Day 47 without sports 😭: How Phil Jackson convinced Michael Jordan to buy into his philosophy

On Day 47 sans sports, Mark Medina takes a look at the bond between Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson, as portrayed in "The Last Dance."
www.usatoday.com

Phil Jackson: 'The Jordan Rules' Helped Bulls Win

Phil Jackson admits Sam Smith's "The Jordan Rules" painted Michael Jordan in poor light but also pushed him to be a better teammate and Bulls to 5 more titles.
www.businessinsider.com

I’m telling Kobe copying MJs whole flow word for word bar for bar
 
Honky Phil Jackson always been a hater. He wanted the glory over his players

Kobe was a top 3 wing defender his whole career what are we doing here…

LeBron didn’t start taking defense seriously until he was 28

Jordan and Kobe handled business on defense from day one

Bron only has like 140 more blocked shots than MJ in 400 more games. Jordan has 10 2+ steal seasons to LeBrons one

Phil was jealous on some he wish he could’ve been player-coach type figure like a bill russell

He’s the P. DIDDY of NBA coaches. Alllllll in the videos head a***
 
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osh kosh bosh said:
Resume Anlysis is the lowest form of basketball thought.

People use resumes analysis when it benefits the guy they like and then abandon it when it doesn't.

We have to look at resumes when talking about Kobe but we can ignore it for Bill Russell.

It's all confirmation bias.
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Or with the game being basically an entire different sport during the 50s and 60s to post-merger number of teams, players, rules, etc; guys like Russell, Wilt, Elgin, are tougher to evaluate on their place in comparison to the people that came after them. They are all time greats for their eras for sure and their resumes stack up with anyone else that's ever played the game.

Looking at games and clips Wilt is that dominant of an athlete but he's also playing mostly against dudes that were 6'9 send under (including Russell). How does one comprehend averaging 50 ppg a season or the crazy numbers that Elgin put up?

Bottom line Kobe and Wardell more or less played in the same era of ball, and many of the other top 10 ppl outside of Russell and Wilt he actually went up against so it makes sense to evaluate him based not only on his resume, but also just his pure basketball ability in being one of the best 2 ways to ever play the game.

Equally as funny is crediting certain people for the same accolades that you discredit others for as not being valid.
 
Phil:
Kobe was having a difficult time staying in the triangle and would frequently go rogue, which annoyed his teammates. Many of them told me they didn't like playing with Kobe because he didn't respect the system. I'd been through this before with Michael, but Kobe, who had recently turned twenty-one, wasn't as mature and open-minded as Jordan.

Kobe was also a stubborn, hardheaded learner.

He was so confident in his ability that you couldn't simply point out his mistakes and expect him to alter his behavior. He would have to experience failure directly before his resistance would start to break down. It was often an excruciating process for him and everyone else involved.

One of those moments happened in early

February. That's when the team was struck by a puzzling malaise. After a less-than-stellar performance, I closed the locker room to all but the players and asked what had happened to cause them to suddenly stop playing together.

Kobe was in the last row with his hoodie pulled over his head. I reviewed the demands that the triangle offense placed on each team member, then concluded: "You can't be a selfish player and make this offense work for the team's good. Period." When I opened the floor to comments, there was complete silence, and I was about to adjourn the meeting when Shag spoke up. He got right to the point, saying, " think Kobe is playing too selfishly for us to win." That got everyone fired up. Some of the players nodded in support of Shaq, including Rick Fox, who said, "How many times have we been through this?" No one in that room came to Kobe's defense.
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addict4sneakers said:
thesportsrush.com

“Michael Jordan realized even if he shot 40 times, he couldn’t overcome some teams”: Phil Jackson dished on how Bulls no. 23 started trusting his teammates

Michael Jordan needed to realize that he had to trust his teammates much more often if he wanted championships, according to Phil Jackson.
thesportsrush.com thesportsrush.com

www.usatoday.com

Day 47 without sports 😭: How Phil Jackson convinced Michael Jordan to buy into his philosophy

On Day 47 sans sports, Mark Medina takes a look at the bond between Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson, as portrayed in "The Last Dance."
www.usatoday.com

Phil Jackson: 'The Jordan Rules' Helped Bulls Win

Phil Jackson admits Sam Smith's "The Jordan Rules" painted Michael Jordan in poor light but also pushed him to be a better teammate and Bulls to 5 more titles.
www.businessinsider.com

I’m telling Kobe copying MJs whole flow word for word bar for bar
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Yea, I think we got our wires crossed because I know this happened. Which was why I was wondering when Phil even made those statements in the first place.

But I was also saying Pippen being present made it much more easy for Jordan to not think about playmaking AS much.
 
“All-time greats for their era” is a contradiction. If they’re all-time greats they’re all-time greats.

Steph and Kobe fans always on their funny **** put them on the top of lists.

“Most influential” , “Modern era”, “best sg”, “best pg”, “changed the game”, “most respected”.
 
QU!K said:
“All-time greats for their era” is a contradiction. If they’re all-time greats they’re all-time greats.

Steph and Kobe fans always on their funny **** put them on the top of lists.

“Most influential” , “Modern era”, “best sg”, “best pg”, “changed the game”, “most respected”.
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You still ain't explained how Kobe's not top 10. :lol:

"All-time greats for their era"

This is the same reason you give for having Wilt and Mr. Russell on your list.
 
I gained a new respect for Steph after that last ring. He was special in that playoffs.

My only real problem I had was it seems like most Steph fans are these lifelong LeBron haters that found somebody that was LeBron's "rival" and latched on to him. Dudes been rushing to say he's better than LeBron since 2015 and here it is 2023 and at 38 Bron might still be better than him.

But if a Steph fan has him top 10 it's not crazy. With his accomplishments and impact I can see it.
 
QU!K said:
If Steve was THAT dude he should’ve EASILY dealt with the Raptors in ‘19

He had every opportunity to earn his 1st fmvp then.

If Steve was THAT dude he wouldn’t have let a 3-1 comeback happen.

Draymond had a solid case for fmvp had they won.

He got 1 fmvp so credit where credit is due. I think another fmvp would make an interesting conversation about who’s better between he and Kobe. Not sure if it firmly puts him in the top 10 tho.

Steph and Kobe are appropriately rated, it’s their fans that make them overrated.
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If lebron was that dude he’d [insert xyz all the times he’s failed miserably like vs mavs and vs spurs etc). It’s tough to win. Incredibly tough. Always sad to see people focus on the ones that didn’t go their way instead of the ones that did. Jordan really screwed up perception with his run of dominance. Perfect health, best player, and by far best supporting cast. An impossible standard to measure against.
 
Kobe and Steph not being top 10 isn’t even a hot take but some of y’all be trying to frame it that way…
 
QU!K said:
Easily

MJ
Kareem
Lebron
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt
Russell

Most people on this list have at least 2 fmvps

Tell me which ones Kobe and Steph better than without taking off Wilt and Russell resorting to “MODERN DAY BASKETBALL” tactics

This the GOAT list not the modern day basketball list.
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Good list but Kobe is absolutely in that group

Can go in circles debating who can switch out
 
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