Transgender Boy Wins High School Girls' Wrestling Championship in Texas

[cedric ceballos]

Nothings wrong with it. The only problem is that these dudes who “identify” as women, don’t want that option. For them it’s either “Accept me as a woman or nothing else”, and that’s where the issue lies because if genetics didn’t accept you as a woman, why should the sporting league.

If you were born with a stick and berries, you play in the men’s league or perhaps sports isn’t for you.

 

[blastercombo]

What’s wrong with this:

“Division A: Cis-Women (Female born girls)

Division B: Everyone else: Men, Trans-Men, Trans-Women

*females who identify as men but receive no hormones can choose either.”

No advantage for anyone. And let’s not skip ahead to hypothetical outrage/backlash.

Nothing wrong but not what they want. They want full inclusion because they are “real” men and women. Again, I don’t know how else to word it if it sounds bad

 

[iamdef]

You can’t social media shame, petition or complain your way into getting everything you want in life.

For everything you want, no, but you for sure can do all those things and make changes that you feel are fair for you or for those you care about or for issues that you don't agree with

maybe there should be a process to get it changed on your birth certificate and identification to standardize it
then and only then when it's legally documented can you claim your gender

would eliminate things like that guy who decided to be a woman so he can hold the world record for deadlifting

I like this idea of making it official, gives it some lasting effects and not just a declaration. I suppose the next issue would be how many times would a person be able to change their gender

 

[cedric ceballos]

You can. It doesn’t mean that you’re going to get what you want. People have been protesting and using social media to express frustration over police brutality (a valid cause which deserves the outrage and attention it gets) and the results have been minimal if that which is unfortunate.

As for these leagues. Girls and women would be well within reason to boycott the leagues and stop playing if they started letting a bunch of guys who think they’re women play.

Taking steroids in MLB gets you a 50 game suspension for a first time offense because it gives you an unfair advantage. Being a guy who identifies as a woman and playing in women’s leagues gives an unfair advantage as well, but they’re pushing to make that the norm. Where does the madness stop?

 

[slaughterx]

maybe there should be a process to get it changed on your birth certificate and identification to standardize it
then and only then when it's legally documented can you claim your gender

would eliminate things like that guy who decided to be a woman so he can hold the world record for deadlifting

Changing your birth certificate... lol, no.

How do trans people feel about race? It's also a social construct... but I can't wake up one morning and decide I identify as caucasian and expect all "problems" of being a person of color to go away... people would laugh and call you crazy because you would be. The whole LGBT "movement" is really a slap in the face of civil rights... for people of color and REAL WOMEN, who actually were discriminated against in more than just sports. The second same sex marriage became legal the fight was over. The only thing that group is fighting for now is acceptance, which they are actually hurting because you can't force someone to feel the way you feel then call them a bigot for not agreeing. Accept who you are, not who you FEEL like you should have been. Stop projecting your own inadequacy on the rest of the world.

 

[RustyShackleford]

While I believe it is very important that society protects the civil rights of transfer people, truly protects them, and make members of the transgender community feel safe and welcomed in society, I think sports is a tricky area. While I am sympathetic to transgender women argument, but I am also to the cis-gender women that say they don't feel it is an equal playing field. And for right now, until sports scientist can give a clear picture that is not the case, or how we can guarantee fairness, I have to concede that it be best we exclude transgender women in traditional women divisions. Maybe the solution is to form extra divisions based on gender and not sex.

But I feel some people are just using the sports example as a cover to voice their general vile opinions about transgender people.

You can tell by how some dudes debating his with some level of respect for people. And some just was to be flippant and demeaning.

 

[blastercombo]

And before “fairness” becomes the main topic let me remind every that nothing is fair even within logistical legal limits. Shaq posting up iverson isn’t fair. Tyson busting up dudes that work overnight jobs isn’t fair. Throw fair out the window

 

[blastercombo]

While I believe it is very important that society protects the civil rights of transfer people, truly protects them, and make members of the transgender community feel safe and welcomed in society, I think sports is a tricky area. While I am sympathetic to transgender women argument, but I am also to the cis-gender women that say they don't feel it is an equal playing field. And for right now, until sports scientist can give a clear picture that is not the case, or how we can guarantee fairness, I have to concede that it be best we exclude transgender women in traditional women divisions. Maybe the solution is to form extra divisions based on gender and not sex.

But I feel some people are just using the sports example as a cover to voice their general vile opinions about transgender people.

You can tell by how some dudes debating his with some level of respect for people. And some just was to be flippant and demeaning.

100%. Sports falls within that voluntary grey area. It’s not a necessity and participation isn’t mandatory. With that said people are using that as their cover for their hate. That I have a huge problem with. Look at the US military if you need proof of that.

 

[cedric ceballos]

Trans women should be treated with respect, and treated with decency and civility.

They also shouldn’t play in women’s sports leagues, and no outrage or complaints from them should change that.

 

[flyeed]

Nothings wrong with it. The only problem is that these dudes who “identify” as women, don’t want that option. For them it’s either “Accept me as a woman or nothing else”, and that’s where the issue lies because if genetics didn’t accept you as a woman, why should the sporting league.

If you were born with a stick and berries, you play in the men’s league or perhaps sports isn’t for you.

They probably want to play there because it’s called boys and girls divisions. Unlike being a female, being a girl is a social construct. The issue is with our own classification system.

Trans people view themselves as a discriminated minority group, and what comes with this is having pride and taking stands. If you call it girls, then the discriminated minority in them who is looking for justice is going to say **** this I’m a girl and nobody will tell me otherwise. And there’s something pretty admirable in that.

Call it A and B and outline who is in what, and you remove that element. As much as trans-women want to just be women, being trans is part of their identity too. Acknowledge them in B show that society is trying to accommodate them, and I think at worst the mental stress of not being able to just be competing with the girls is only equally as bad as the mental stress you endure when every time you step on the field you feel the murmurs and disdain, your hard work and accomplishments aren’t recognized by others but are diminished as cheating, and you deal with constant harassment.

 

[noir.]

Changing your birth certificate... lol, no.

How do trans people feel about race? It's also a social construct... but I can't wake up one morning and decide I identify as caucasian and expect all "problems" of being a person of color to go away... people would laugh and call you crazy because you would be. The whole LGBT "movement" is really a slap in the face of civil rights... for people of color and REAL WOMEN, who actually were discriminated against in more than just sports. The second same sex marriage became legal the fight was over. The only thing that group is fighting for now is acceptance, which they are actually hurting because you can't force someone to feel the way you feel then call them a bigot for not agreeing. Accept who you are, not who you FEEL like you should have been. Stop projecting your own inadequacy on the rest of the world.

lmao, race isn't a social construct tho ...not in the slightest...wtf is this, trump's burner account?

 

[noir.]

Trans women should be treated with respect, and treated with decency and civility.

They also shouldn’t play in women’s sports leagues, and no outrage or complaints from them should change that.

the latter statement contradicts the initial one.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Trans women should be treated with respect, and treated with decency and civility.

They also shouldn’t play in women’s sports leagues, and no outrage or complaints from them should change that.

Given some of your previous post, I doubt you really believe that.

 

[slaughterx]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)

 

[isyouserious]

No ones forcing AI to guard Shaq, no ones forcing mediocre boxers to get in the ring with Tyson. They have options. Its intramural sports ie k-12 where **** gets murky, especially in the age group where boys have a clear physical advantage over girls.

 

[cedric ceballos]

They probably want to play there because it’s called boys and girls divisions. Unlike being a female, being a girl is a social construct. The issue is with our own classification system.

Trans people view themselves as a discriminated minority group, and what comes with this is having pride and taking stands. If you call it girls, then the discriminated minority in them who is looking for justice is going to say **** this I’m a girl and nobody will tell me otherwise. And there’s something pretty admirable in that.

Call it A and B and outline who is in what, and you remove that element. As much as trans-women want to just be women, being trans is part of their identify too. Acknowledge them in B show that society is trying to accommodate them, and I think at worst the mental stress of not being able to just be a girl is only equally as bad as the mental stress you endure when every time you step on the field you feel the murmurs and disdain, your hard work and accomplishments aren’t recognized by others but are diminished as cheating, and you deal with constant harassment.

I can empathize with them. But that’s where it stops. And with all fairness I’m trying to place myself in their shoes. But letting them play in women’s sports to accommodate them just creates a slippery slope. I’m totally fine with acknowledging how they feel and what not, but if cis girls speak out in large numbers about how they feel it’s unfair and aren’t on board with it, they should be accommodated too.

You’re never going to be able to please everyone on situations like this, but I’m big on just telling them no, being firm about it, and hopefully more transgender people feel comfortable about coming out so that they eventually have the numbers to where trans league options are on the table if they choose to consider them.

 

[cedric ceballos]

Given some of your previous post, I doubt you really believe that.

I’d beg to differ. You can treat them fair and be respectful to them while still firm at the same time that they shouldn’t play in women’s leagues. Nothing from my previous posts said otherwise.

 

[flyeed]

I can empathize with them. But that’s where it stops. And with all fairness I’m trying to place myself in their shoes. But letting them play in women’s sports to accommodate them just creates a slippery slope. I’m totally fine with acknowledging how they feel and what not, but if cis girls speak out in large numbers about how they feel it’s unfair and aren’t on board with it, they should be accommodated too.

You’re never going to be able to please everyone on situations like this, but I’m big on just telling them no, being firm about it, and hopefully more transgender people feel comfortable about coming out so that they eventually have the numbers to where trans league options are on the table if they choose to consider them.

I think that you forgot about the A and B classification I brought up before in this reply. I’m interested in your take though if you could go back to it and reply to my post in that context.

 

[cedric ceballos]

I get what you’re implying with the A and B stuff. In terms of both being trans and being a woman.

I still feel how I feel though. Treat them with respect, but them playing in women’s sports leagues is where the line is drawn.

 

[iamdef]

No ones forcing AI to guard Shaq, no ones forcing mediocre boxers to get in the ring with Tyson. They have options. Its intramural sports ie k-12 where **** gets murky, especially in the age group where boys have a clear physical advantage over girls.

nobody is forcing anybody to run track, choice goes in every direction
it's not about forcing people into doing things it's about inclusion and it's effects. Within sports some people have natural advantages, like Shaq's height, but he's not expected to play in a 7 footer league. Of course this situation is much deeper than just height

 

[flyeed]

I get what you’re implying with the A and B stuff. In terms of both being trans and being a woman.

I still feel how I feel though. Treat them with respect, but them playing in women’s sports leagues is where the line is drawn.

Don’t think you understood then because what I brought up would have them play with cis boys not cis girls

 

[DCAllAfrican]

No ones forcing AI to guard Shaq, no ones forcing mediocre boxers to get in the ring with Tyson. They have options. Its intramural sports ie k-12 where **** gets murky, especially in the age group where boys have a clear physical advantage over girls.

Why are we using a TEAM sport as an example though? Team sports are a combination of various shapes/sizes. Why not use an individual sport like Boxing/MMA/Wrestling? A sport that has clear defined weight classes? That would be a MORE suitable comparison, if you want to even force one. (Which we shouldn't)

 

[cedric ceballos]

Don’t think you understood then because what I brought up would have them play with cis boys not cis girls

My mistake. I misinterpreted the context, which is why I touched on what I touched on.

Having them play with cis boys however isn’t what they want. That’s where the slippery slope lies. They identify as women and want to be treated as such in every manner. Having them play with cis boys wouldn’t satisfy them in that respect.

 

[blastercombo]

Yeah hold on. I’m not comparing anything to anything. I’m just saying if the only reason someone wants to call of inclusion is because of fairness then they don’t have an argument at all

 

[isyouserious]

Why are we using a TEAM sport as an example though? Team sports are a combination of various shapes/sizes. Why not use an individual sport like Boxing/MMA/Wrestling? A sport that has clear defined weight classes? That would be a MORE suitable comparison, if you want to even force one. (Which we shouldn't)

I was responding to BlasterCombos post about fairness in sports.