Was MJ an average athlete??

Shaq is the most physically dominant athlete to play in any sport

I'm taking him over any other Center that's ever played the game with no hesitation
 
NY Mavurs said:
Shaq is the most physically dominant athlete to play in any sport

I'm taking him over any other Center that's ever played the game with no hesitation
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Can't disagree with that. I watched myself Shaq be completely unguardable during his prime. I never saw Kareem, or Wilt, or Russell play but I don't see any of them stopping Shaq. But on the other hand Kareem would do work against Shaq too.
 
I think watching Shaq in his physically dominating days was very similar to Wilt and his same dominance. Dudes couldn't be stopped in many cases
 
dmxfury said:
I think watching Shaq in his physically dominating days was very similar to Wilt and his same dominance. Dudes couldn't be stopped in many cases
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i didn't watch wilt play... so i can't say. i just think shaq was unstoppable and the most dominant ever. i like hakeem against rookie shaq but when shaq hit his stride he was basically 7 foot 300 pounds with unfair quickness. like tim duncan in his prime and d rob together weren't stopping shaq. 

i only compare him to jordan cause jordan is considered GOAT, shaq doesn't ever get mentioned. hakeem was something to watch too but shaq was by far the most dominant guy i've seen. maybe the rules were better for him then. 

i can't speak for wilt and bill russell, just going by what i saw... i do know shaq went up against a bunch of good centers: d rob, hakeem, mutombo prime, ewing, even the white dude on the pacers... and he completely dominated when he wanted to. 
 
Hakeem did give Shaq the business tho in the finals. Kinda ala Russell vs. Chamberlain. But that was when Shaq was still in Orlando. He hit his prime in LA. Like Wilt tho whose numbers are so ridiculous they arent even compared to orhers Shaq's size is what keeps him out of the talk of greatest players ever. Same as Wilt. Although it's pretty hard to deny Shaq did it against far superior talent than Wilt did. But Wilt dominated more.
 
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ryanjumpman420 said:
Hakeem did give Shaq the business tho in the finals. Kinda ala Russell vs. Chamberlain. But that was when Shaq was still in Orlando. He hit his prime in LA. Like Wilt tho whose numbers are so ridiculous they arent even compared to orhers Shaq's size is what keeps him out of the talk of greatest players ever. Same as Wilt. Although it's pretty hard to deny Shaq did it against far superior talent than Wilt did. But Wilt dominated more.
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yeah i don't think we are disagreeing on anything. i remember when hakeem schooled rookie shaq. but shaq prime wasn't just size and power, he was quick as hell and had soft hands. i guess i was just listening to them debate the next 10 after NBA Top 50, thought about how good Duncan was/is and remembered how Shaq just tore through teams 

and Kobe was a sidekick, Shaq would have won with probably any of the solid guards from the late 90s/early 2000s
 
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bartleby929 said:
yeah i don't think we are disagreeing on anything. i remember when hakeem schooled rookie shaq. but shaq prime wasn't just size and power, he was quick as hell and had soft hands. i guess i was just listening to them debate the next 10 after NBA Top 50, thought about how good Duncan was/is and remembered how Shaq just tore through teams 

and Kobe was a sidekick, Shaq would have won with probably any of the solid guards from the late 90s/early 2000s
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That finals where Hakeem schooled Shaq was in 95 and Shaq was drafted in 92 so he wasn't a rookie. But still not in his prime either. Shaq is still my #1 center of all time. But cases can be made for Russell and his 11 rings, Kareem with his sky hook and Wilt with his ridiculous numbers.
Wilt's career averages
30 ppg
22 Rpg
4 Apg

Shaq's career stats
23 ppg
11 rpg
2 apg
Why I'm not a stat guy.
 
Mister Friendly said:
Wilt was more dominant than Shaq

Shaq doesn't win a thing without Kobe maybe McGrady
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From a physical standpoint no, but I get what you're saying

Shaq was the kind of player who needed another person to alter the way you defended the Lakers and thats where Kobe helped
 
Well from a physical standpoint and comparing to who he played, Wilt was the most dominant. But vs each other of course Shaq has the edge

If only he kept that hunger and training up. I'm not a Laker fan but loved watching him in those early LA days
 
Ya know a better comparision really would be Kareem vs Shaq. Both played against great talent. Lookin at the numbers and rings Kareem may have a slight edge over Shaq in my opinion.
 
Shaq needed Kobe, Kobe needed Shaq. All the greats championship teams had at least 2 great players. Showtime Lakers with Magic was a way more stacked team than the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe and that damn sure didn't take way from Magic being one of the best ever. As with Larrys Celtics. Not quite as loaded as the Showtime Lakers but still had 2 other HOFers out there and Dennis Johnson who Bird said was the best player he ever played with. MJ had Scotty and others And Dennis Rodman later.
 
Kobe actually won multiple rings without Shaq

Pau was a good player but he wasn't Shaq level, he was just a great big and Kobe went to 3 straight NBA Finals with Pau
 
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ryanjumpman420 said:
Mister Friendly said:
Kobe actually won multiple rings without Shaq

Pau was a good player but he wasn't Shaq level, he was just a great big and Kobe went to 3 straight NBA Finals with Pau
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Is Pau going to the HOF?
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Yes and all those guys I mentioned earlier are going to the HOF except JO

My point isn't to degrade Pau, just saying if the guy wants to say Shaq could win if you insert a great wing

Kobe could win without Shaq if you inserted a great big

And Kobe has actually done it
 
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As he should cause Kobe is one of the all time greats. But he wasn't carrying that Lakers team with Pau. They had other good players as well. A young Bynum, Ron Artest still in his day, Derek Fisher still in his day. I still wouldn't put Kobe above MJ.
 
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