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No matter how y’all try to spin it with the numbers, Disney still wrong. Yes Sony should’ve countered that offer of 50/50 but I don’t blame them for walking away. Come correct or don’t come at all

That new deal if agreed upon would have Disney making more money off something they don’t even own. That’s just bad business if Sony said yes but we letting our entitlement for wanting Spidey in the MCU blind that :lol:
 
If Sony was capable of making Spiderman this lucrative then Disney wouldn’t be in the picture to begin with

The audacity of thinking Disney is wrong for wanting a piece of the pie
 
Cashflow said:
If Sony was capable of making Spiderman this lucrative then Disney wouldn’t be in the picture to begin with

The audacity of thinking Disney is wrong for wanting a piece of the pie
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They already getting a piece of it. They wanted half and then some

If that’s not wrong then idk what is anymore
 
amitt5504 said:
They already getting a piece of it. They wanted half and then some

If that’s not wrong then idk what is anymore
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5% of the front end. The Disney naysayers keep presenting it like they just want 50% and that’s it. They are willing to put their money up to invest their half in the property.

Spiderman doesn’t hit a billion without Disney & Fiege, that’s the reality of the situation.
 
vegetaray123 said:
I don’t know...I tend to lean with @the coolness on this one...Does the merch end of things really play a big roll in the movie deals since it was done separately years earlier? If Sony has an issue, then let them try and re-work that deal as well...

Taking that factor out and looking at it solely as the deal the two had for Spidey being in the MCU? 5% front end, so only on day 1 ticket sales, is really not that much...I mean can we blame Disney for wanting to get some monetary credit for their contribution here? Even at the 30% THR is reporting it might seem high on Disney’s part considering Sony foots the bill on these things...Still yet, Disney offering to pick up that same percentage in the production costs certainly makes things look better for them...

On the other hand who can honestly blame Sony for wanting to protect their highest value property...Also, I’d be pissy too if I were Sony and I couldn’t even get merch profit on my Spidey-Verse film :lol:...

Looking at this now it seems the deal was going to eventually fall through anyway...5 films may have been a blessing all things considered...

It’s 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other at this point...

Really though...Piss on both Sony and Disney for making this whole thing about money...
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its a factor because sony traded it to get most all the rights for the characters in the spiderverse and in giving 50/50, they are sending half of it back without getting any merch $$$ in return... then that deal back then might as well not exist

disney was getting 5% off the box office gross according to the deadline/verge, not just the opening day #s:

According to Deadline’s sources, the issue is money: Disney reportedly asked that future Spider-Man films be 50 / 50 coproductions between Disney and Sony, instead of the current deal, which is said to give Marvel (and Disney) five percent of gross box-office revenue.


look at it this way though, in the past deal if sony spent $200m on budget (just as an example) and made $1b... sony profits $750m and disney get $50m (again simplified example)

keep in mind that it cost disney nothing and its really only feige looking over the film (so they are paying $50m for feiges services) and disney still gets a billion $ in merch plus they get to put spidey in the movies they produce (and who pays holland for those films? is it sony or marvel because his contract is signed with sony and i wouldnt be surprised if sony is also paying for holland to be in the mcu and rdj supposedly had to make a separate contract with sony to be in homecoming)

now if its 50/50... on a $200m budget sony spends $100m but by making a billion, sonys profit is now $400m and disney gets $400m plus a billion on merch for the year

if we say an mcu-less spidey movie makes $800m and with a $200m budget the profit for sony would still be $600m...

if you were in sonys shoes and you agreed to trade all your merch rights to get all the character rights for the spiderverse a few years back, would you really trade half of that back without getting anything else in return? i personally dont think i would especially if they arent getting a cut from the mcu films spidey appears in

now if disney says "ok we'll give you 5%-10% back for using spidey in the mcu films" which made a combination of $5.8BILLION (CW, IW & EG) which at 5% equates to close to $300M then id say "where do i sign!!!!" :lol:


at the end of the day, we the fans lose and it sucks but it is what it is
 
Yea I’m going go ahead and refuse to believe this Deadpool dude is the victim in this

By no means am I saying Disney ain’t try to ask for a lot

But that quote above about him/them taking credit for spiderverse (which I completely give credit to the people we’ve seen give us other quality content) and saying they know the playbook, speaks volumes.. dude might as well claim credit for Deadpool too and talk about all they knew from that while they’re talking shh
 
Cashflow said:
5% of the front end. The Disney naysayers keep presenting it like they just want 50% and that’s it. They are willing to put their money up to invest their half in the property.

Spiderman doesn’t hit a billion without Disney & Fiege, that’s the reality of the situation.
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That plus the merch profit (full 100%)

We don’t know how much merch profit but it’s not per movie, it’s for everything Spider-Man related. Disney is still getting a huge cut while doing nothing in a sense. I’m not saying don’t do the deal but doing the deal just because Disney made the movie a billi is stupid especially when Disney is gonna take over half when merch is included.
 


70% of when its gonna be John Wick 3 like on Spiderman 3 better than whatever 100% of when they soft reboot.
 
i dont think anyone thinks anyones a victim here... its just two sides cant meet to make a deal


Cashflow said:
Spiderman doesn’t hit a billion without Disney & Fiege, that’s the reality of the situation.
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while true... sony almost got there with spiderman 3 making $890m and on average the mcu-less spidey films make $793m (5 films and goes up to average of $803m if we include venom)

and look, they managed to put a $100m budget on venom too while making $856m and that is probably an exception than a norm but that is still the reality we live in and it got sony feeling themselves

probably didnt help that spiderverse might be the best spiderman film yet and its the first animated film to win an oscar in that genre that isnt disney/pixar in the past 7 years so sonys chest really puffed out atm :lol:
 
papichino said:
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and honestly what makes the second report not put out by the other side?

:lol:

its all really just finger pointing at this point

now if we believe what he write on his website (which he links twitter to) then he makes it seem like sony is evil and disneys the victim:

It should be noted that co-finance deals also don’t always involve an equal splitting of earnings, which is something else people will ignore as they continue their misinformed online outrage fits. Also, there have been some rumors floating around that Disney went as low as wanting 20%, which Sony still rejected.


i am not on anyone's side here, i want spidey in the mcu and stay there and both studios are evil and likely dirtier than we think if we actually see what goes on inside those meetings and deals but similar to the first report... id put the blame 50/50 on both sides
 
My whole thing is this...

Does Sony get a billion plus on a Spider Man movie without Feige and the MCU?

IF they actually do pull a billion down, and they might on their next Spider Man film just on sheer audience curiosity and the boost they got from being part of the MCU, then walking away from the deal makes sense...At least in the short term...If the movie is bad they could easily slide into a WB-DC type situation where they face diminishing returns on each successive film...Crystal ball type stuff I know, but with films like a Venom sequel, and Morbius in the pipeline............Well yeah...

Use the total gross on Justice League for example ($657 Million) to fit in with my comparison...If Sony spends $200 million on a film that gets that gross on a trend of smaller and smaller returns...That $400 million they’d be getting on a MCU backed film after Disney gets their cut looks a whole lot better knowing that their next film could possibly pull in a larger box office total...Getting that same $400 million on a film that didn’t nail the box office and is part of a franchise on the slide is a little less comfortable...There’s a level of security there in knowing, at least at this point, that you’ll be getting guaranteed returns...Add to that, Disney is offering to split the production costs and the long term looks a whole lot better...

Again it all comes back to IF Sony can pull this together without Feige and the MCU...

Sony seems to think they can and who knows, they might hit us with the best Spidey film yet...Looking at everything currently though (Cough - VENOM - Cough), I’m still not sure this is a good idea on their end...
 
It’s funny because Sony made the two best Spider Man films without the MCU...BUT...They also made the two worst...

It’s wait and see at this point I guess...
 
i believe this rothman dude could very easily be feeling himself and looking for any excuse to get out of the deal with Disney whereas I think Disney doesn’t necessarily have a set position and came to bargain expecting a back and forth negotiations
 
you dont really need to use JL/DC as a box office example for them, they have past spiderman films to use as an example where they averaged close to $800m/film which would be more accurate
 
vegetaray123 said:
It’s funny because Sony made the two best Spider Man films without the MCU...BUT...They also made the two worst...

It’s wait and see at this point I guess...
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No they didn’t.. they made 1 of em, spiderverse.. but the 3 best Spider-Man films right now are easily homecoming, FFH and spiderverse

And as I mentioned, the guys who did spiderverse also gave us the LEGO movie, 21 jump street and cloudy with a chance of meatballs

Meanwhile Sony gave us Spider-Man 3, 500 days of Spider-Man and venom as their last 4 uses of the spiderman IP without Phil lord and Chris Miller involved
 
itsaboutthattime said:
the 3 best Spider-Man films right now are easily homecoming, FFH and spiderverse

And as I mentioned, the guys who did spiderverse also gave us the LEGO movie, 21 jump street and cloudy with a chance of meatballs
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but youre acting like they are all of a sudden not employed but sony anymore and that the spiderverse guys are on loan from disney

whats stopping sony from promoting those guys and giving them the reigns to a live action spiderverse?

got to start looking at it cup half full or else we just gon keep getting angrier and angrier
 
rfx45 said:
you dont really need to use JL/DC as a box office example for them, they have past spiderman films to use as an example where they averaged close to $800m/film which would be more accurate
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I know...I’m talking long term into a cinematic universe on the slide...If Sony doesn’t nail this then you all know their movies will return less and less, and they’re already out here telling everybody they know that they can handle this...Who does that sound like again? DCEU - WB circa 2016 :lol:...

I’m afraid this is the path Sony is walking...
 
rfx45 said:
but youre acting like they are all of a sudden not employed but sony anymore and that the spiderverse guys are on loan from disney

whats stopping sony from promoting those guys and giving them the reigns to a live action spiderverse?

got to start looking at it cup half full or else we just gon keep getting angrier and angrier
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I’m not getting angrier.. I’m disappointed.. and I hope those guys at the very least maintain creative control of spiderverse

However what concerns me is the Deadpool of it all.. as was discussed many times when deadpool was successful, a lot of studio heads were going take away the wrong ideas of what made that thing successful and a lot of the things that made Deadpool successful could be applied to spiderverse

But I look at venom and I think that succeeded, to a degree, on those negatives studio executives would have taken away from Deadpool
 
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