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What happened to the White-Americans NBA players?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by rook,
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Hmm, I wonder why that is...
If you're trying to insinuate that I'm lending credence to the theory, then you're wrong.
In case you didn't read the entire thread, I am the one arguing FOR giving white players a better chance to prove themselves.
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Shuges, I've watched and played soccer for almost my entire life.
You do not need to be athletic to succeed in soccer.
Positioning, ball control, conditioning and pass accuracy are the most important attributes of being a successful soccer player. You can be the fastest andstrongest guy on the pitch but if you cant control a pass, make accurate passes, or position yourself properly, then you are a useless soccer player. Tons ofprofessional soccer players in the past and present have thrived in the game despite being limited athletically. The best player this past generation (ZinedineZidane) was a crappy athlete but absolutely dominant on the pitch because he was always in the right place at the right time, had tremendous ball control andwas an excellent shooter and passer. I could list players for days who have been extremely successful in the sport despite not being great athletes.
Being athletic obviously helps a ton (Thierry Henry in his prime, Cristiano Ronaldo, etc. etc.) but lack of athleticism can be overcome by possessing generalsoccer skills.
I can not say that there is a single position in soccer that requires you to be athletic. Being able to survive a 90-minute match and playing your position arethe only 2 requirements.
I can break down the requirements of each position although I'm not sure you'd be interested in reading such a long summary. For the most part, soccerdoes not require the raw athleticism that sports such as basketball, football, track and field, etc. require. Other than maybe 2-3 positions in soccer, you DONOT need to be athletic to succeed.
You do not need to be athletic to succeed in soccer.
Positioning, ball control, conditioning and pass accuracy are the most important attributes of being a successful soccer player. You can be the fastest andstrongest guy on the pitch but if you cant control a pass, make accurate passes, or position yourself properly, then you are a useless soccer player. Tons ofprofessional soccer players in the past and present have thrived in the game despite being limited athletically. The best player this past generation (ZinedineZidane) was a crappy athlete but absolutely dominant on the pitch because he was always in the right place at the right time, had tremendous ball control andwas an excellent shooter and passer. I could list players for days who have been extremely successful in the sport despite not being great athletes.
Being athletic obviously helps a ton (Thierry Henry in his prime, Cristiano Ronaldo, etc. etc.) but lack of athleticism can be overcome by possessing generalsoccer skills.
I can not say that there is a single position in soccer that requires you to be athletic. Being able to survive a 90-minute match and playing your position arethe only 2 requirements.
I can break down the requirements of each position although I'm not sure you'd be interested in reading such a long summary. For the most part, soccerdoes not require the raw athleticism that sports such as basketball, football, track and field, etc. require. Other than maybe 2-3 positions in soccer, you DONOT need to be athletic to succeed.
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This is pretty funny.
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most HS dont allow kids on school grounds during the weekend for sport nor in the summer and if you had to wait to HS to us those resources thenyou already a mile behind the kids that grow up with those resources
and i dont know about you but i can go to any park in my city during the summer and run a 5 on 5 how many parks have you ran across a full on baseball gamerunning........
if you dont understand how or why blacks are built better for basket ball then its a problem and this isnt something you need to debate
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riverxbear
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the birdman is the best shot blocker in the game , and white boys shoot better to.
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sirius lee handsome
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Interesting "hypotheses" from some of you. This is comparable to similar discussions as to why certain groups are more successful than others when itcomes to education/intelligence, but flipped.
In alternate worlds a lot of the thoughts in this thread would be labeled racist, but hey it's Niketalk so not only are stereotypes reinforced, they'reconsidered completely valid as long as the people being stereotyped are regularly viewed as being "privileged."
In alternate worlds a lot of the thoughts in this thread would be labeled racist, but hey it's Niketalk so not only are stereotypes reinforced, they'reconsidered completely valid as long as the people being stereotyped are regularly viewed as being "privileged."
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I haven't given much thought into this but I think that the reason why there are less white players in the NBA today compared to the 80s isbecause the NBA has become a much more athleticism-driven league. You hear coaches/GMs complaining about young players lacking basic fundamentals but it isthese same coaches/GMs who draft certain players because they were able to bench 185 pounds X amount of times, because they had the best time in the shuffledrill, because they have a 40+ inch verticle, etc. It's not so much about being able to make accurate passes or be an accurate shooter anymore as much asit is about having the necessary athleticism to survive in the league. NBA teams tend to go for players who despite their basketball limitations, are greatathletes. Teams think that they can get the most out of these raw athletes by molding them into role-players. So while specialization plays a huge role in thegame of basketball today, I think that athleticism plays the biggest role in the sport itself. Teams would rather take a risk on a raw athlete than a playerwith all the fundamental skills but lacking desired physical qualities. I could be wrong though.
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"I just didn't want a white guy guarding me. Because it's disrespect to my game."
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Well, that's what I'm doing.
How so when I have clearly been arguing against it?
CT, I admit that I don't know the ins and outs of soccer. I am only speaking (ignorantly perhaps) on what Isee. A sport like soccer primarily depends on a player running and moving for 90 minutes. In other words, you won't see some sloppy, fat bastard gettingbusy in soccer. Maybe a better term for soccer players is "CONDITIONED" instead of "ATHLETIC".
Casper, I hear what you're saying about picking up the rock and playing during the summer. But what about thewinter? If you don't have access to some sort of indoor facility, then your !@# is out. Whereas a high school player can play YEAR ROUND (even if theycan't hit the gym during the weekend like you claim.... which is not completely true by the way).
And finally, I asked why would you say black athletes are better built for bball than baseball? Outfielders, you need speed and hops... Infielders, you needrange and athleticism.... Pitchers, you need power in your leg muscles and arm strength.... All things that you guys are claiming that black kids are superiorto white kids in.
So if black kids are soooooooooo superior athletically in these areas, then why aren't they dominating baseball?
Because you guys are WRONG. It is NOT all about being athletically gifted.
It's part of what OKB said and a little bit of what I'm trying to say.
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In case you are wondering im BLACK.
Black people aint born with more fast twitch muscles. They develop em. What does basketball encompass? Running, jumping and training.
Those are all things that develop fast twitch muscles. You show me a white guy who is cut and defined in the NBA? You can develop athletic ability. There aintsome genetic lottery for it. You can learn how to get your muscles to react faster (fast twitch) you can run faster,jump higher. it just depends on how muchwork you puttin in.
Any basketball player that cant make it to the league needs to look in that mirror. There aint no excuses for not doing what you want to in life. Thats how Ilook at myself, and thats how successful people look at it.
Casper hit the nail on the head. You come from a place where you have to compete, and you develop athletic ability, skill and determination.
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I honestly have no clue if black folks are born athletically superior to whites but I do know that the exact oppositeargument was made on a very widespread basis for decades. It's like the white man will always try to come up with an excuse for himself when another group(especially black people) excel past them at something and they can't seem to compete.
As for the change in the make-up of the L, it's simply based on the process of integration that began in the 1960s. If professional basketball was just asavailable to black players in the 1950s-1970s as it is now, you don't think those rosters would have been filled with mostly brothers?
The other factor is that, at least during the 20th century in the U.S., groups on the lower rungs of society have excelled at sports (when given theopportunity). Think about the sport of boxing in the first half of this century- it was dominated by Irish and Italian fighters, the two groups essentiallyviewed as the least "white" and least desirable European ethnic groups. As the sport desegregated, blacks and Latinos rose to the head of theranks...
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Originally Posted by ERASCISM
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Again, how would this explain the rise of European players, who are just as un athletic but have the fundamentals that coaches covet.
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Dude stop. I can develop my fast twitch muscles all I want but I'm not going to run as fast as Chris Johnson/Desean Jackson. I can work on my vertical allI want but it'll never exceed Howards/LeBrons. I can only develop my athletic ability as much as my body allows. Black people are just genetically giftedwhen it comes to athletics. It has nothing to do with skill and determination because that's what it takes to get to the NBA. What white players arelacking is the athletic ability that blacks have. Period.
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How so when I have clearly been arguing against it?
CT, I admit that I don't know the ins and outs of soccer. I am only speaking (ignorantly perhaps) on what I see. A sport like soccer primarily depends on a player running and moving for 90 minutes. In other words, you won't see some sloppy, fat bastard getting busy in soccer. Maybe a better term for soccer players is "CONDITIONED" instead of "ATHLETIC".
Casper, I hear what you're saying about picking up the rock and playing during the summer. But what about the winter? If you don't have access to some sort of indoor facility, then your !@# is out. Whereas a high school player can play YEAR ROUND (even if they can't hit the gym during the weekend like you claim.... which is not completely true by the way).
And finally, I asked why would you say black athletes are better built for bball than baseball? Outfielders, you need speed and hops... Infielders, you need range and athleticism.... Pitchers, you need power in your leg muscles and arm strength.... All things that you guys are claiming that black kids are superior to white kids in.
So if black kids are soooooooooo superior athletically in these areas, then why aren't they dominating baseball?
Because you guys are WRONG. It is NOT all about being athletically gifted.
It's part of what OKB said and a little bit of what I'm trying to say.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but no one gives a damn about baseball in most urban black communities. Period. That's whyblack players aren't dominating baseball. On the other hand, basketball is preached as a quasi-religion in many of these communities where it is viewed asthe only sport to play. Literally.
And resources have plenty to do with it. Kids can play basketball without anything but a ball, they don't even need a hoop or court to practice. Baseball, on the other hand, requires at least a bat, ball, gloves, and something that resembles a large field. Also, look at how small a basketballhalf-court is compared to a baseball field- there is a tremendous difference; baseball fields also require regular upkeep while basketball courts require none. There are typically hardly any baseball fields in the hood but dozens of basketball courts, rims, etc. You honestly don't think that makes a differenceabout what kids are going to play?
Plenty of high schools in Chicago don't even have baseball teams (or track teams, volleyball teams, etc.) but every single one has a basketball team. Alot of these schools don't have the resources, facilities, equipment, coaches, etc. to field those other teams but they always have basketball becauseit's popular, every school has a gym, and you basically don't need any equipment.
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I don't know man, even kids in poor countries like Venezuela & the DR go crazy over baseball. I would think Americans would be able toafford the equipment.
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The people in those countries could easily dedicate whatever resources they expend on baseball and put towards basketball and have a surplus. Thedifference is that baseball is the cultural staple in many of those countries that basketball is here in so many urban black communities. If kids were dyingto play baseball in the hood in the U.S., of course baseball would be more prevalent... probably not as prevalent as basketball is now given the difference inresources it takes to play it but certainly more common.
Not to mention in those countries most kids play baseball with a stick, a ball, no gloves, and no actual field. So their baseball requirements are much lessthan ours in the U.S. Which goes back to my other point, if kids in these communities here actually wanted to play baseball they would probably do the same. But they don't want to because basketball is pushed so hard to the point of exclusion of nearly all other sports in many instances.
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That's not explaining Dirk, Bargnani and other Euros who are white dudes that can ball in the league with the best of em.
Its specific to white males in the U.S....Why hasn't there been a next Larry Legend? It could be anything from socio-economic factors to poor grassrootsbasketball in predominately white areas.
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lol wut? i think you're underestimating soccer players here...just because it looks like they're just running for 90 minutes doesn'tmean they're not athletic.
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This man explained it perfectly and knocked it out of the park.
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kids in the dominican republic dont have many resources yet they still play a lot of baseball...
and please do not label baseball as a "white sport"
EDIT: didnt see the responses up there about baseball in the latino countries
on a side note, the RBI program is slowly puttin baseball into the "hoods", hopefully it works out
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I'm surprised nobody posted this..