Would a Hamsterdam actually work (Vol. Yes Another Wire Discussion)

[trynafeelmink]

Been rewatching recently & came across this scene & it just sparked this up for me. For those who haven't watched the Wire Hamsterdam is a "free drug zone" meaning that dealers, users, prostitutes etc etc were moved from their current neighborhoods & pushed to an abandoned area of town. From there they were given immunity as long as there was no violence or robbing.

in the show it clearly worked as far as statistics, it was disbanded due to the media & pressure from the public against the politicians. With that said, knowing how much policing is purely incentivised stat stuffing these days.... Is the only thing stopping a Hamsterdam situation from working simply the "moral" standpoint or do people believe it still wouldn't benefit those living in the ghetto's targeted?

 

[superantigen]

Of course it would. Hasn't that been the unofficial policy when it comes to inner city black and/minority inner neighborhoods for decades now, sans the altruism? Drugs only became an "epidemic" only after Chad and Becky got caught in the game.

All this poison that they've shown will come back on them to the 7th generation.


...

 

[tay1]

No it wouldn't work. What makes you think an area with drugs, dealing and prostitutes would have no violence?

And all that's going on within that area would seep into everywhere else. You wouldn't want that type of **** to be influencing your kids.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Of course it would. Hasn't that been the unofficial policy when it comes to inner city black and/minority inner neighborhoods for decades now, sans the altruism? Drugs only became an "epidemic" only after Chad and Becky got caught in the game.

All this poison that they've shown will come back on them to the 7th generation.


...

That was my thing, in a sense the "Ghetto" of America is esentially hamsterdam in a less focused area. but all these hoods are in the grand scheme of things are areas local governments have pushed the "undesirables" into & have policed way differently. The end goal isn't really to alleviate the issues, it's to keep feeding the system.

 

[trynafeelmink]

No it wouldn't work. What makes you think an area with drugs, dealing and prostitutes would have no violence?

In this scenario police are still there, just not making arrest. so those who decide to use violence will be arrested & banned from making money in Hamsterdam. Would actual fights break out yes, but the chances of someone catching a body in that environment would be decreased if you know that there will definitely be arrest made.

 

[tay1]

In this scenario police are still there, just not making arrest. so those who decide to use violence will be arrested & banned from making money in Hamsterdam. Would actual fights break out yes, but the chances of someone catching a body in that environment would be decreased if you know that there will definitely be arrest made.

I don't think people would care more ahout being arrested as they already face that chance in regular society

If anything, violence would emerge quick as people would fight to control the area

 

[Kinfolk]

in the show it clearly worked as far as statistics, it was disbanded due to the media & pressure from the public against the politicians.

It’s an idea put forth by the writers of the show.

Thought provoking? Yes.

But don’t say “it worked”. It was a scripted TV show.

There were no statistics.

 

[finessesosa]

Lowkey I think it would work but thats way too much politics involved with letting that happen. Its not reality

If you think the dealers and them wouldn't shake hands and sign off on a designated area they could pitch with NO violence or getting locked up, your tripping.

 

[Barbados Slim]

It’s an idea put forth by the writers of the show.

Thought provoking? Yes.

But don’t say “it worked”. It was a scripted TV show.

There were no statistics.

This. It's a made up show with made up stats from a made up scenario. Nothing "worked".
...but yes it is interesting.
I personally don't think it would work. Especially in the long term.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

I don't think it could work that long cuz it's always gonna be at least one person that kicks off the violence. You can say in the early crack era days their were hamsterdams all throughout the country but as the money started to really come in, dudes fighting for territory and they started killing over it.

And the government looks for any excuse to lock up black people. They wouldn't allow black men to make money off drugs then flip that into legal business. They let the mafia do it though. The italians, jewish and irish gangsters was one big hamsterdamn for decades. Prohibition, Sold drugs, prostitution, extortion, all that and was allowed to flip that into the legit world.

 

[eracism]

Tenderloin in San Francisco

 

[dwalk31]

Really boils down to what success is. If the goal is to reduce the amount of people that are strung out on drugs and preventing STDs etc, then no it wouldn't work. If the goal is to just displace to make things easier to ignore then yea it would "work."

The idea of a New Hamsterdamn is actually pretty offensive and, like superantigen and tyisny said, that is the current situation in many low-income inner-city areas.

 

[Magic33]

IMO drugs should be legalized. If you want to do them and ruin your life, it's pretty much on you. Make it like cigs or alcohol.

 

[trynafeelmink]

I don't think people would care more ahout being arrested as they already face that chance in regular society

If anything, violence would emerge quick as people would fight to control the area

I'm not sure if your familiar with how it was set up in the Wire... but there would be no one crew able to "control" the area unless they were gonna go to war with the cops. Although in this scenario the crew with the best product would be making the most money.... which could lead too a lot more more friction between the higher ups.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Really boils down to what success is. If the goal is to reduce the amount of people that are strung out on drugs and preventing STDs etc, then no it wouldn't work. If the goal is to just displace to make things easier to ignore then yea it would "work."

The idea of a New Hamsterdamn is actually pretty offensive and, like superantigen and tyisny said, that is the current situation in many low-income inner-city areas.

here's the thing tho, does are government actually look for a way to reduce drug use/std's amongst the poor? I was sitting back going back & forth on whether drug users would really be that worse off in this scenario & i gotta say no.... the thing that would worry me most is the future of those kids growing up in that, however like many have stated in the worst of ghettos kids are exposed to some harsh conditions still

 

[tay1]

I'm not sure if your familiar with how it was set up in the Wire... but there would be no one crew able to "control" the area unless they were gonna go to war with the cops. Although in this scenario the crew with the best product would be making the most money.... which could lead too a lot more more friction between the higher ups.

Not familiar with how it was set up in the with but based on the concept, it seems like there would be crazy competition

 

[trynafeelmink]

I don't think it could work that long cuz it's always gonna be at least one person that kicks off the violence. You can say in the early crack era days their were hamsterdams all throughout the country but as the money started to really come in, dudes fighting for territory and they started killing over it.

And the government looks for any excuse to lock up black people. They wouldn't allow black men to make money off drugs then flip that into legal business. They let the mafia do it though. The italians, jewish and irish gangsters was one big hamsterdamn for decades. Prohibition, Sold drugs, prostitution, extortion, all that and was allowed to flip that into the legit world.

I agree with a lot of this, however like you stated a lot of the fighting came over territory. In this case nobody would "own" any blocks... the determining factor would strictly be the quality of the product.

 

[tay1]

I agree with a lot of this, however like you stated a lot of the fighting came over territory. In this case nobody would "own" any blocks... the determining factor would strictly be the quality of the product.

The quality would create competition. Controlling blocks is unavoidable. You not gon deal next to your competition.

 

[sooperhooper]

I was literally just thinking about something like this this morning.
Basic income would take crappy workers out of the workforce.
Regulated prostitution will keep down sexual tension and probably reduce rapes and Mass shooting.
Legalizing weed would chill people out...

But ofb course that stuff would never happen because it "doesn't make us look good as a nation".

 

[sfc415]

Hamsterdam-lite basically exists already in San Francisco. Cops don't give a @$%@ about fiends shooting up all over the place or drugs being sold in the Tenderloin/mid Market area, and with the recent increase in usage, you can't go anywhere without fiends passed out/yelling/cussing/threatening people in public (except the really expensive neighborhoods like the Marina and Pacific Heights. Want to take a wild guess what the demographics are there?)

If you think I'm exaggerating about how bad it is...



Los Angeles has the same issue, except they basically just pushed all of them to Skid Row along with the homeless. That place is almost the size of a small city

 

[dwalk31]

here's the thing tho, does are government actually look for a way to reduce drug use/std's amongst the poor? I was sitting back going back & forth on whether drug users would really be that worse off in this scenario & i gotta say no.... the thing that would worry me most is the future of those kids growing up in that, however like many have stated in the worst of ghettos kids are exposed to some harsh conditions still

I mean they may not be worse off, but it definitely wouldn't be a step in the right direction imo. It is basically an admission that the people are hopeless. That's not a good look.

 

[blade br0wn]

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/30/us/baltimore-mayor-supports-legalization-of-illicit-drugs.html

An article that details how drug legalization was an idea of a previous mayor here in Baltimore. This is pretty much the influence that David Simon drew from for the idea of Hampsterdam in the show.

 

[numbah1grimey]

here's the thing tho, does are government actually look for a way to reduce drug use/std's amongst the poor? I was sitting back going back & forth on whether drug users would really be that worse off in this scenario & i gotta say no.... the thing that would worry me most is the future of those kids growing up in that, however like many have stated in the worst of ghettos kids are exposed to some harsh conditions still

Require the fiends to get a vasectomy

 

[|A-Man|]

I don't think people would care more ahout being arrested as they already face that chance in regular society

If anything, violence would emerge quick as people would fight to control the area

Actually, in the show the main dudes running things stayed away from that area cuz they didn't trust it. They just sent their cornerboys there to make money while it lasted.

Its a police sanctioned area where dealing and a few other illegal things are a go. It was very successful while it lasted.

And looking @ the Deuce, 42nd 1st back then was a similar thing only difference was the cops that let it slide were corrupt.

 

[Thats My Word]

The TL in SF basically being Hamsterdam is true. The Civic Center Bart Station is usually filled with dealers just lined up at the escalators, but a few months back, during one of those huge conferences (dreamforce, oracle world, or one of those other ones), the cops all just pushed the dealers down a few blocks onto eddy street or something for the week of the conference.