Your Government bought and sold by the Health Care industry (Democrats and Republicans)

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

^If people would stop eating CRAP then maybe we wouldn't need doctors. Food minus chemicals=Utopia

I'm not going to say that YOU are a moron. What I will say, though, is that your statement is very moronic.

Clearly, you're unaware of just how politically debased the food industry is, and has become. People are eating CRAP, as you so put it, because the FDAallows it. The story gets more dreary when you realize that many of these federal institutions, the FDA included, that are supposed to look out for thewell-being of the American people, are rather pledging their allegiances to corporations like Monsanto ( http://www.hulu.com/watch...food?c=Food-and-Leisure)and others I can't even remember right now.

Point is, the entire system needs an overhaul because these liberal and conservative affiliations do nothing but create problems for the American people, atevery level, not just Healthcare.

...

 

[duerr]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

^If people would stop eating CRAP then maybe we wouldn't need doctors. Food minus chemicals=Utopia

I'm not going to say that YOU are a moron. What I will say, though, is that your statement is very moronic.

Clearly, you're unaware of just how politically debased the food industry is, and has become. People are eating CRAP, as you so put it, because the FDA allows it. The story gets more dreary when you realize that many of these federal institutions, the FDA included, that are supposed to look out for the well-being of the American people, are rather pledging their allegiances to corporations like Mosanto and others I can't even remember right now.

Point is, the entire system needs an overhaul because these liberal and conservative affiliations do nothing but create problems for the American people, at every level, not just Healthcare.

...

The FDA is a joke, no doubt.

They haven't even moved an inch on regulating all these "herbal supplements". It's like the 1920's again with some guy standing on a soapbox selling "baby cure all" that is cocaine and alcohol mixed together. Many other countries regulate a lot of 'natural' medicine and herbalsupplements because there is such a huge potential for danger.

In other words, the government is willing to take the stance that processed poppy and marijuana are bad enough to make illegal, but don't feel that anyother plants are worth regulating. Ridiculous.

And people genuinely want these morons to take charge of our healthcare system. I have to reiterate my point again. Where the %%*% were all of you 6 months agowith all your healthcare rage ? Do you only give a %%*% when you're told to ?

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

^If people would stop eating CRAP then maybe we wouldn't need doctors. Food minus chemicals=Utopia

yup

the ciggs, horrible food in poor neighborhoods, lack of exercise, obesity etc that Americans are known for is what the real discussion should be about.

We are having an insurance talk bout instead should have a real discussion on how to live healthy first. Nobody wants to tell people that though.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Fear mongering ? I clearly said that "I don't know if it will happen, but the implications are pretty creepy". The implications ARE creepy. If you want to ignore that, fine.

How are they creepy? Do all the other nations with nationalized health care programs automatically become these red communist countries like all these crazy right wingers tell us we'll become? i don't see it.

If you want to talk about "creepy", look at things like homeland security and the patriot act - those are much closer to putting us in trouble than providing basic health care to every man, woman, and child in the most advanced country in the world. We look like idiots not taking care of our citizens because we don't want to have to help pay for one another, when in reality we're all paying extra for the current broken system anyways.

I'm going to assume that you don't understand how healthcare works, and that's ok. All you can be expected to understand is what television and newspapers tell you.

No one is ever denied treatment, EVER. What people are denied of is PAYMENT ON THEIR BEHALF for the treatment.
We take care of our citizens, we just don't always have someone else to pay the bill afterward. Like I've said 3 times, I'm all about redistributing my tax dollars into expanding Medicare and Medicaid and I would love to see the VA turn into a a good hospital.I find it hard to believe that we can't find the money in the hundreds of billions of tax dollars that are wasted overseas or on special interest.If healthcare is such a priority, lets loosen up some money-making legislation that could finance it.

Also, I'm no fan of homeland security or the patriot act, either.

dude, give me a break. If those two lines don'tconflict with each other, i don't know what does.

yeah - you can goto an emergency room if you have a serious issue and get it taken care of. But who is going to outside of something serious when they knowthey'll have to wait forever to get seen, and the bill will put them in debt for years? Preventative medicine needs to be given to everyone also -especially children. That's part of basic health care.

talking about ME just repeating what i see on tv?

 

[essential1]

Actually Milton Friedman being a joke is more widespread than you think. His philosophy on economics is the same philosophy that bankers have used to decimatethe financial sector.

Same basis used in the movie Wall Street where Michael Douglass coined the phrase Greed is good. And the same %#* backwards logic Reagan used in his economicpolicy.


So anyone who ever says what the bankers did was shady, or hated how Reagan treated the poor, or Bush's economic policy laugh at what I said but you agreeif you think any of the previous things are true.

Greed and Business don't mix because greed either costs lives or costs businesses.

 

[an dee 51o]

Originally Posted by duerr

No one is ever denied treatment, EVER. What people are denied of is PAYMENT ON THEIR BEHALF for the treatment.

 

[duerr]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Fear mongering ? I clearly said that "I don't know if it will happen, but the implications are pretty creepy". The implications ARE creepy. If you want to ignore that, fine.

How are they creepy? Do all the other nations with nationalized health care programs automatically become these red communist countries like all these crazy right wingers tell us we'll become? i don't see it.

If you want to talk about "creepy", look at things like homeland security and the patriot act - those are much closer to putting us in trouble than providing basic health care to every man, woman, and child in the most advanced country in the world. We look like idiots not taking care of our citizens because we don't want to have to help pay for one another, when in reality we're all paying extra for the current broken system anyways.

I'm going to assume that you don't understand how healthcare works, and that's ok. All you can be expected to understand is what television and newspapers tell you.

No one is ever denied treatment, EVER. What people are denied of is PAYMENT ON THEIR BEHALF for the treatment.
We take care of our citizens, we just don't always have someone else to pay the bill afterward. Like I've said 3 times, I'm all about redistributing my tax dollars into expanding Medicare and Medicaid and I would love to see the VA turn into a a good hospital.I find it hard to believe that we can't find the money in the hundreds of billions of tax dollars that are wasted overseas or on special interest.If healthcare is such a priority, lets loosen up some money-making legislation that could finance it.

Also, I'm no fan of homeland security or the patriot act, either.

dude, give me a break. If those two lines don't conflict with each other, i don't know what does.

yeah - you can goto an emergency room if you have a serious issue and get it taken care of. But who is going to outside of something serious when they know they'll have to wait forever to get seen, and the bill will put them in debt for years? Preventative medicine needs to be given to everyone also - especially children. That's part of basic health care.

talking about ME just repeating what i see on tv?

Your point is that people were being denied healthcare, and you're dead wrong about it. Instead of cop to it and admit you don't have aclue as to how the system works, you latch on to something else. Very clever.

I agree that preventative medicine is a need for all people. Preventative medicine starts with lifestyle, and that is something I don't want legislated.Second, the federal government puts very little value in preventative medicine. Take a look at Medicare and Medicaid coverage and see how many cases of'preventative medicine' are covered. If the fed puts no value in it now, how will they justify the costs to themselves in a much larger program ?

As far as 'repeating', I've been in the heatlhcare industry close to ten years. I've seen the horrible coverage and denials by Medicare andMedicaid. I've met the lunatics that work at and run the VA (An interesting note, no physicians at the VA have Medicare ID #'s. They do this becausethe VA is not constrained by Medicare's ROCK BOTTOM standards in healthcare) I've seen hospital administrators write off hundreds of debt whileMedicare and Medicaid have practically become medical charities.

Trust me, you have no clue how god-awful the governments current incarnation of 'healthcare' really is.It's a god damn shame.

 

[duerr]

Originally Posted by an dee 51o

Originally Posted by duerr

No one is ever denied treatment, EVER. What people are denied of is PAYMENT ON THEIR BEHALF for the treatment.

I'll rephrase so you can understand.

People get the healthcare that they need to keep them alive. No patient is ever denied treatment because they can't pay for it. Ever.

 

[duerr]

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

Originally Posted by Essential1

Actually Milton Friedman being a joke is more widespread than you think. His philosophy on economics is the same philosophy that bankers have used to decimate the financial sector.

Same basis used in the movie Wall Street where Michael Douglass coined the phrase Greed is good. And the same %#* backwards logic Reagan used in his economic policy.


So anyone who ever says what the bankers did was shady, or hated how Reagan treated the poor, or Bush's economic policy laugh at what I said but you agree if you think any of the previous things are true.

Greed and Business don't mix because greed either costs lives or costs businesses.

People reject the "unpopular" opine far too quickly... It bothers me.

Wouldn't speaking out AGAINST government run healthcare be the 'unpopular' opinion ? Shouldn't I be bothered ?

Sincerely, as someone who has seen every aspect of healthcare from insurance coverage to billing, sales, and treatment, I can assure you that government runhealthcare is going to be atrocious.Idf you think I'm wrong, fine. Medicare and Medicaid reform is the way to go.

 

[brooklynhustla]

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

Yep. Everyone should check my thread Cannabis Cures Cancer...

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

^If people would stop eating CRAP then maybe we wouldn't need doctors. Food minus chemicals=Utopia

Forgive me but this new age nonsense is just that. Cannabis cannot cure cancer and if everyone were to eat healthy, doctors would still very muchbe needed.

 

[duerr]

Originally Posted by brooklynhustla

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

Yep. Everyone should check my thread Cannabis Cures Cancer...

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

^If people would stop eating CRAP then maybe we wouldn't need doctors. Food minus chemicals=Utopia

Forgive me but this new age nonsense is just that. Cannabis cannot cure cancer and if everyone were to eat healthy, doctors would still very much be needed.

What, you didn't hear ? Processed foods caused the bubonic plague.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by aubstuh86

canada FTW

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by SUSHI AND GRITS

This isn't about affording healthcare, though. I don't see anyone in here *****ing about not affording. It's deeper than that. Compassion is something everyone doesn't have.

Compassion ?

Its the FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT who is denying it's citizens Medicaid coverage (The government health systems DESIGNED for those people who can't afford private healthcare). Why can't they fix the system that they have in place? If it's billions of dollars in debt, how is it supposed to work on a greater scale ?

Bingo.

Exactly the Govt already has a health system in place and it's failing yet people want the Govt to control MORE and somehow it will just miraculously work?

What a joke. Fix the current system first, then maybe we can discussuniversal health care.

Just look at our Social Security program. We're being taxed and paying 6.2% of each tax dollar we earn plus another 6.2% our employers pay in payrolltaxes, and when it's time for us to collect how much of what we paid in are we really going to get? 12.4% to be set aside for us but you gotta be sick inthe head and naive to think you will collect all if any of that by retirement age.

So are we really willing to put this country in debt by a trillion dollars because Obama and the Democrats wants to provide health care for everyone? Againsome of ya all be living this fairy tale life probably attributed to this joke of a President with his sermons of hope and change.

 

[da703trailblaza]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Actually Milton Friedman being a joke is more widespread than you think. His philosophy on economics is the same philosophy that bankers have used to decimate the financial sector.

Same basis used in the movie Wall Street where Michael Douglass coined the phrase Greed is good. And the same %#* backwards logic Reagan used in his economic policy.


So anyone who ever says what the bankers did was shady, or hated how Reagan treated the poor, or Bush's economic policy laugh at what I said but you agree if you think any of the previous things are true.

Greed and Business don't mix because greed either costs lives or costs businesses.

So if a company is too greedy and fails thats a bad thing? I think you must not understand what Friedman's philosophy was. It's the idea that poorlyrun businesses should go bust, it allows for other better run companies to gain more capital and grow and gain market share. Who's a legit economist inyour book? Keynes? who backed off his own stimulus views as he got older? Or Krugman (I'll admit I'm basing this more off his columns than any work hemay have ever done) proves himself to be a blithering idiot. He constantly uses examples of that refute the points he tries to make not strengthens them. Andthe financial sector being decimated had several catalysts, greed being one of them, others including pushing homeownership and the fed keeping interest ratestoo low for too long. Bear Stearns and Lehman going down was the right thing the others should have failed too, the politicians suckered everybody intobelieving it would result in economic apocalypse, the stock market isn't the economy.

 

[duerr]

Originally Posted by da703trailblaza

Originally Posted by Essential1

Actually Milton Friedman being a joke is more widespread than you think. His philosophy on economics is the same philosophy that bankers have used to decimate the financial sector.

Same basis used in the movie Wall Street where Michael Douglass coined the phrase Greed is good. And the same %#* backwards logic Reagan used in his economic policy.


So anyone who ever says what the bankers did was shady, or hated how Reagan treated the poor, or Bush's economic policy laugh at what I said but you agree if you think any of the previous things are true.

Greed and Business don't mix because greed either costs lives or costs businesses.

So if a company is too greedy and fails thats a bad thing? I think you must not understand what Friedman's philosophy was. It's the idea that poorly run businesses should go bust, it allows for other better run companies to gain more capital and grow and gain market share. Who's a legit economist in your book? Keynes? who backed off his own stimulus views as he got older? Or Krugman (I'll admit I'm basing this more off his columns than any work he may have ever done) proves himself to be a blithering idiot. He constantly uses examples of that refute the points he tries to make not strengthens them. And the financial sector being decimated had several catalysts, greed being one of them, others including pushing homeownership and the fed keeping interest rates too low for too long. Bear Stearns and Lehman going down was the right thing the others should have failed too, the politicians suckered everybody into believing it would result in economic apocalypse, the stock market isn't the economy.

Companies aren't designed to employ people and turn profits, they exist to provide for everyone else and be selfless!

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Fear mongering ? I clearly said that "I don't know if it will happen, but the implications are pretty creepy". The implications ARE creepy. If you want to ignore that, fine.

How are they creepy? Do all the other nations with nationalized health care programs automatically become these red communist countries like all these crazy right wingers tell us we'll become? i don't see it.

If you want to talk about "creepy", look at things like homeland security and the patriot act - those are much closer to putting us in trouble than providing basic health care to every man, woman, and child in the most advanced country in the world. We look like idiots not taking care of our citizens because we don't want to have to help pay for one another, when in reality we're all paying extra for the current broken system anyways.

I'm going to assume that you don't understand how healthcare works, and that's ok. All you can be expected to understand is what television and newspapers tell you.

No one is ever denied treatment, EVER. What people are denied of is PAYMENT ON THEIR BEHALF for the treatment.
We take care of our citizens, we just don't always have someone else to pay the bill afterward. Like I've said 3 times, I'm all about redistributing my tax dollars into expanding Medicare and Medicaid and I would love to see the VA turn into a a good hospital.I find it hard to believe that we can't find the money in the hundreds of billions of tax dollars that are wasted overseas or on special interest.If healthcare is such a priority, lets loosen up some money-making legislation that could finance it.

Also, I'm no fan of homeland security or the patriot act, either.

dude, give me a break. If those two lines don't conflict with each other, i don't know what does.

yeah - you can goto an emergency room if you have a serious issue and get it taken care of. But who is going to outside of something serious when they know they'll have to wait forever to get seen, and the bill will put them in debt for years? Preventative medicine needs to be given to everyone also - especially children. That's part of basic health care.

talking about ME just repeating what i see on tv?

Your point is that people were being denied healthcare, and you're dead wrong about it. Instead of cop to it and admit you don't have a clue as to how the system works, you latch on to something else. Very clever.

I agree that preventative medicine is a need for all people. Preventative medicine starts with lifestyle, and that is something I don't want legislated. Second, the federal government puts very little value in preventative medicine. Take a look at Medicare and Medicaid coverage and see how many cases of 'preventative medicine' are covered. If the fed puts no value in it now, how will they justify the costs to themselves in a much larger program ?

As far as 'repeating', I've been in the heatlhcare industry close to ten years. I've seen the horrible coverage and denials by Medicare and Medicaid. I've met the lunatics that work at and run the VA (An interesting note, no physicians at the VA have Medicare ID #'s. They do this because the VA is not constrained by Medicare's ROCK BOTTOM standards in healthcare) I've seen hospital administrators write off hundreds of debt while Medicare and Medicaid have practically become medical charities.

Trust me, you have no clue how god-awful the governments current incarnation of 'healthcare' really is.It's a god damn shame.





Look at what I said genius - " providing basic health care to every man, woman, and child in the most advanced country in the world." I wasn'tcopping out of anything, you tried to make it seem like I know nothing about this situation because you took that to mean i didn't understand thatemergency rooms will admit everybody?

Great - you work in the health care field, I'm sure you have more experience first hand than I do. That doesn't mean I don't understand thesituation, all the things you're saying are as anecdotal as anybody else, let's not pretend like just because you have dealt with this first hand thatyou all of a sudden have all the answers.

You seem EXTREMELY arrogant about this all, and to be frank, it's kind of annoying. We're obviously both of the opinion that the system needs massivereforms, not sure why you are getting up in arms about it with ME.

http://www.virtualcitizens.com/articles/The+Fraud+of+Friedman

http://www.virtualcitizen...es/The+Fraud+of+Friedman Come on. Explain yourself. You can't just say, "Oh, this guy said my idol is a fraud, therefore he has no grounding." WHY? Honestly, I don't even believe resources are scarce so it's probably gonna be hard to explain this to me...

He's not my idol, but calling him a "fraud" is pretty funny.

I graduated with a degree in economics, and so I feel pretty confident in saying he wasn't totally off his rocker and that his viewpoint was one thatprobably 40 percent of the economics world still holds in many ways.

Hell - I even think some of what he said was true given studies of how markets work in the real world.

 

[da703trailblaza]

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by da703trailblaza

Originally Posted by Essential1

Actually Milton Friedman being a joke is more widespread than you think. His philosophy on economics is the same philosophy that bankers have used to decimate the financial sector.

Same basis used in the movie Wall Street where Michael Douglass coined the phrase Greed is good. And the same %#* backwards logic Reagan used in his economic policy.


So anyone who ever says what the bankers did was shady, or hated how Reagan treated the poor, or Bush's economic policy laugh at what I said but you agree if you think any of the previous things are true.

Greed and Business don't mix because greed either costs lives or costs businesses.

So if a company is too greedy and fails thats a bad thing? I think you must not understand what Friedman's philosophy was. It's the idea that poorly run businesses should go bust, it allows for other better run companies to gain more capital and grow and gain market share. Who's a legit economist in your book? Keynes? who backed off his own stimulus views as he got older? Or Krugman (I'll admit I'm basing this more off his columns than any work he may have ever done) proves himself to be a blithering idiot. He constantly uses examples of that refute the points he tries to make not strengthens them. And the financial sector being decimated had several catalysts, greed being one of them, others including pushing homeownership and the fed keeping interest rates too low for too long. Bear Stearns and Lehman going down was the right thing the others should have failed too, the politicians suckered everybody into believing it would result in economic apocalypse, the stock market isn't the economy.

Companies aren't designed to employ people and turn profits, they exist to provide for everyone else and be selfless!

 

[e3lal]

First, Olbermann does a terrific job getting out the truth.
Second, it's a shame that our leaders are bought off by lobbyist so easily.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by E3LAL

First, Olbermann does a terrific job getting out the truth.
Second, it's a shame that our leaders are bought off by lobbyist so easily.

let's not act like Olbermann is a saint either. MSNBC has their own agendas.

http://www.salon.com/opin...2009/08/01/ge/index.html

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by da703trailblaza

Originally Posted by Essential1

Actually Milton Friedman being a joke is more widespread than you think. His philosophy on economics is the same philosophy that bankers have used to decimate the financial sector.

Same basis used in the movie Wall Street where Michael Douglass coined the phrase Greed is good. And the same %#* backwards logic Reagan used in his economic policy.


So anyone who ever says what the bankers did was shady, or hated how Reagan treated the poor, or Bush's economic policy laugh at what I said but you agree if you think any of the previous things are true.

Greed and Business don't mix because greed either costs lives or costs businesses.

So if a company is too greedy and fails thats a bad thing? I think you must not understand what Friedman's philosophy was. It's the idea that poorly run businesses should go bust, it allows for other better run companies to gain more capital and grow and gain market share. Who's a legit economist in your book? Keynes? who backed off his own stimulus views as he got older? Or Krugman (I'll admit I'm basing this more off his columns than any work he may have ever done) proves himself to be a blithering idiot. He constantly uses examples of that refute the points he tries to make not strengthens them. And the financial sector being decimated had several catalysts, greed being one of them, others including pushing homeownership and the fed keeping interest rates too low for too long. Bear Stearns and Lehman going down was the right thing the others should have failed too, the politicians suckered everybody into believing it would result in economic apocalypse, the stock market isn't the economy.

Companies aren't designed to employ people and turn profits, they exist to provide for everyone else and be selfless!

Not what I said at all. Frauds can be right at times but his greed is good basis of philosophy is a fraud. To find a place of common ground, sortof, I do believe that Gov't shouldn't have total control over business with regulations but regulations are necessary. Where as Friedman'sphilosophy is get out if you are gov't any regulation is bad regulation when time, and history prove Friedman's notion wrong.

Turning profit is different than CUTTING CORNERS illegally or paying off Congressman. When you build your profit off of Greed/cutting corners at some pointyour whole company falls apart, and you end up putting more people in the unemployment office than if you did things by the rules.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by E3LAL

First, Olbermann does a terrific job getting out the truth.
Second, it's a shame that our leaders are bought off by lobbyist so easily.

let's not act like Olbermann is a saint either. MSNBC has their own agendas.

http://www.salon.com/opin...2009/08/01/ge/index.html

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by duerr

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Fear mongering ? I clearly said that "I don't know if it will happen, but the implications are pretty creepy". The implications ARE creepy. If you want to ignore that, fine.

How are they creepy? Do all the other nations with nationalized health care programs automatically become these red communist countries like all these crazy right wingers tell us we'll become? i don't see it.

If you want to talk about "creepy", look at things like homeland security and the patriot act - those are much closer to putting us in trouble than providing basic health care to every man, woman, and child in the most advanced country in the world. We look like idiots not taking care of our citizens because we don't want to have to help pay for one another, when in reality we're all paying extra for the current broken system anyways.

I'm going to assume that you don't understand how healthcare works, and that's ok. All you can be expected to understand is what television and newspapers tell you.

No one is ever denied treatment, EVER. What people are denied of is PAYMENT ON THEIR BEHALF for the treatment.
We take care of our citizens, we just don't always have someone else to pay the bill afterward. Like I've said 3 times, I'm all about redistributing my tax dollars into expanding Medicare and Medicaid and I would love to see the VA turn into a a good hospital.I find it hard to believe that we can't find the money in the hundreds of billions of tax dollars that are wasted overseas or on special interest.If healthcare is such a priority, lets loosen up some money-making legislation that could finance it.

Also, I'm no fan of homeland security or the patriot act, either.

dude, give me a break. If those two lines don't conflict with each other, i don't know what does.

yeah - you can goto an emergency room if you have a serious issue and get it taken care of. But who is going to outside of something serious when they know they'll have to wait forever to get seen, and the bill will put them in debt for years? Preventative medicine needs to be given to everyone also - especially children. That's part of basic health care.

talking about ME just repeating what i see on tv?

Your point is that people were being denied healthcare, and you're dead wrong about it. Instead of cop to it and admit you don't have a clue as to how the system works, you latch on to something else. Very clever.

I agree that preventative medicine is a need for all people. Preventative medicine starts with lifestyle, and that is something I don't want legislated. Second, the federal government puts very little value in preventative medicine. Take a look at Medicare and Medicaid coverage and see how many cases of 'preventative medicine' are covered. If the fed puts no value in it now, how will they justify the costs to themselves in a much larger program ?

As far as 'repeating', I've been in the heatlhcare industry close to ten years. I've seen the horrible coverage and denials by Medicare and Medicaid. I've met the lunatics that work at and run the VA (An interesting note, no physicians at the VA have Medicare ID #'s. They do this because the VA is not constrained by Medicare's ROCK BOTTOM standards in healthcare) I've seen hospital administrators write off hundreds of debt while Medicare and Medicaid have practically become medical charities.

Trust me, you have no clue how god-awful the governments current incarnation of 'healthcare' really is.It's a god damn shame.

Look at what I said genius - " providing basic health care to every man, woman, and child in the most advanced country in the world." I wasn't copping out of anything, you tried to make it seem like I know nothing about this situation because you took that to mean i didn't understand that emergency rooms will admit everybody?

Great - you work in the health care field, I'm sure you have more experience first hand than I do. That doesn't mean I don't understand the situation, all the things you're saying are as anecdotal as anybody else, let's not pretend like just because you have dealt with this first hand that you all of a sudden have all the answers.

You seem EXTREMELY arrogant about this all, and to be frank, it's kind of annoying. We're obviously both of the opinion that the system needs massive reforms, not sure why you are getting up in arms about it with ME.

http://www.virtualcitizens.com/articles/The+Fraud+of+Friedman

http://www.virtualcitizen...es/The+Fraud+of+Friedman Come on. Explain yourself. You can't just say, "Oh, this guy said my idol is a fraud, therefore he has no grounding." WHY? Honestly, I don't even believe resources are scarce so it's probably gonna be hard to explain this to me...

He's not my idol, but calling him a "fraud" is pretty funny.

I graduated with a degree in economics, and so I feel pretty confident in saying he wasn't totally off his rocker and that his viewpoint was one that probably 40 percent of the economics world still holds in many ways.

Hell - I even think some of what he said was true given studies of how markets work in the real world.




You say "wasn't totally off his rocker." So how was he off his rocker? I'm planning on majoring in either Philosophy or Econ...

Everyone has their own agendas indeed, but not everyone makes their agenda shaped for the entire world...

Look - economics is a complicated field. Theories are constantly evolving once they get tested in the real world. Things rarely ever work on paper like theydo in real life.

So some of the things he believed during his earlier years he ended up rescinding on later in life:

He said he actually would "like to abolish the Fed," and points out that when he has written about the Fed it is simply his recommendations of how it should be run if it exists.[sup][54][/sup]

This is a guy who once used to believe that government intervention was a fact of life, that it was beyond necessary for markets to work efficiently. Butpeople took some of this @%*% to mean that he was basically advocating totalitarianism in terms of our economy.

I mean - he was somebody who shook things up in the economic world because he didn't agree with a lot of teachings that people thought were written instone. And I think people just got really bitter about this or something

So I'm not saying he was crazy - but I don't agree with everything he was saying either.

I can tell you that my senior year I was still learning some of his basic ideas about money supply as related to inflation, so it's not like he was way offbase - the stuff works on paper. But again, that's paper.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by apassionforshoes23


Isn't that just Philosophical talk though? The point is, economics is firstly about the efficient allocations of resources right? Isn't there an inherent greed based on that statement alone?

Yes there is inherent greed in business of course. Never denied that. But the basis of economics is not shady practice and bribery. Reason there are laws forbusiness is too keep them from committing shady practices because they have proved that they cause more harm than help to the companies. Any truthful economistwill tell you about. That is where you diverge from Economics to Corporatism, Corporatism says you need to do whatever you can to hurt workers to make moremoney, try to pay people off, cut corners, etc. etc. etc.

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by E3LAL

First, Olbermann does a terrific job getting out the truth.
Second, it's a shame that our leaders are bought off by lobbyist so easily.

let's not act like Olbermann is a saint either. MSNBC has their own agendas.

http://www.salon.com/opin...2009/08/01/ge/index.html

Seems a bit too convenient to me that he would just "decide" to stop talking about Bill almost altogether after the feud they had going.� I'lltake the NYT cred over MSNBC's.

I mean - what's Keith going to say?� Yes, we made a deal to stop because we're influenced by our parent companies?� He can't say that.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21


Seems a bit too convenient to me that he would just "decide" to stop talking about Bill almost altogether after the feud they had going.� I'll take the NYT cred over MSNBC's.

I mean - what's Keith going to say?� Yes, we made a deal to stop because we're influenced by our parent companies?� He can't say that.

But right after he then goes after Bill and calls him a racist and calls the owner of the company he works for a facist. So I'll take that instead but Isee what your saying.

What's MSNBC or GE going to do fire him? Do that and they can kiss there whole station goodbye.