2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions

Status
Not open for further replies.
OK...let's get some discussion going:



Can anyone think of a better catch than this?

Lofton :hat
 
To me, the Edmonds back to the plate dive and snag is the greatest catch I have ever seen, period.

I still don't get how he caught it. :lol
 
Forgot about that Edmonds gem. :hat Dude was filthy in CF.

*flamesuit activated* Willie Mays catch is INSANELY overrated

Come at me bros.
 
I used to listen to Bob Kemp years ago, smartest radio guy I've ever listened to. He used to say that Edmonds was not as good as advertised because he would be a step slow on everything, and hence, need to make the miraculous grabs.

Whereas Andruw Jones would move on contact, and already be there well before the ball arrived, because he was that great reading the ball off the bat. Hence, Jones had fewer "miracle" grabs, because he was already in position. When he did have a diving catch or something like that, it meant that was a ball no CFer should have ever gotten near.

I was :eek listening to him explain that ****. :lol
 
Andruw Jones is the ******* man that's why. First ballot.

BTW, IDK why some of these dumb *** writers are killing Harper for his stance on the lineup. It's been all year with this loser Matt Williams trying to show he's in charge with Harper. He's had some of the most head scratching lineups I've seen in a while. Harper is not wrong about anything he said.
 
Last edited:
what did Harper say?

and matt williams deserve all the slander he can get :{ ...
 
This is one of the best catches I've ever seen. He times it, waits, climbs the wall and grabs it. I watched this game live and I was HOT :{
 
This is from that idiot Thomas Boswell:

Instead of "Nothing But Natitude," Harper's box could've read, "Nothing But Attitude." The 21-year-old exposed the fissures that have gotten more public between the young star and the Nats. Being back in the Nats' lineup after two months wasn't enough for Harper; he wanted to write the lineup, too.

Manager Matt Williams put Ryan Zimmerman at third base, Anthony Rendon at second base, Harper in left field and benched Danny Espinosa. He also batted Harper sixth, exiled from the glamorous heart-of-the-order spots. Harper disagreed, on all fronts, and said so several hours before the game.

"I think [Zimmerman] should be playing left. Rendon's a good third baseman. He should be playing third. We've got one of the best second basemen in the league in Danny Espinosa," said Harper. "Of course, we want the best-hitting lineup in there. [But] I think Rendon playing third and Zim playing left is something that would be good for this team. I think that should be what's happening."

This Harper proposal would also put Denard Span on the bench and Harper himself in center field, the position he's politicked for weeks to play.

Williams has talked about daily designer lineups, constantly changing. Harper's suggestion amounts to a fixed lineup -- to his advantage. If Harper were 10 years more established in deeds, not dolls, it'd be audacious to manage a team after being on the DL for more than half of the Nats' previous 193 games. But to do it with one homer halfway into a season?

Anything else? How are those internal lines of communication working?

"I haven't talked to nobody about anything, so I have no clue," said Harper, who frequently mentioned how happy and excited he was to return but never smiled. "I know I'm playing left tonight, via Twitter. So I guess that's where I'm going."

And what about batting sixth?

"I'm in the lineup. That's all that matters. If I had the lineup, it would maybe not be the same. He's got the lineup card. He's got the pen. That's what he's doing," said Harper. "So there's nothing I can do about it. I'm hitting sixth tonight."

So, the manager has three players out of position, the wrong guy benched, Harper batting in the wrong spot and he has to learn about this stuff on Twitter.

"Hopefully, nobody kills themselves trying to get a bobblehead," said Harper, who knows just how central Nationals marketers have made him to the franchise's merchandising identity.

People are mad because he advocates benching Span and playing center? You gotta be ******* kidding me :lol Denard Span is ******* trash but yea, I can see Matt Williams reasoning for sticking with him in the leadoff spot.
 
Speaking of Jim Edmonds



Was at that game. When Endy caught that ball the upper deck above us started shaking and waving. We woulda tore that place down if we won that game. Damn shame our bullpen sucked.
 
I still find it funny a lot of Met fans blame Beltran for that game because of Waino's curve when he's one of their greatest outfielders ever but still to this day praise Endy for the one good moment he had there :lol
 
Bryce Harper already causing controversy.

Bryce Harper returned to the Nationals with an attitude, writes Thomas Boswell. From his column:
Instead of "Nothing But Natitude," Harper's box could've read, "Nothing But Attitude." The 21-year-old exposed the fissures that have gotten more public between the young star and the Nats. Being back in the Nats' lineup after two months wasn't enough for Harper; he wanted to write the lineup, too.

Manager Matt Williams put Ryan Zimmerman at third base, Anthony Rendon at second base, Harper in left field and benched Danny Espinosa. He also batted Harper sixth, exiled from the glamorous heart-of-the-order spots. Harper disagreed, on all fronts, and said so several hours before the game.

"I think [Zimmerman] should be playing left. Rendon's a good third baseman. He should be playing third. We've got one of the best second basemen in the league in Danny Espinosa," said Harper. "Of course, we want the best-hitting lineup in there. [But] I think Rendon playing third and Zim playing left is something that would be good for this team. I think that should be what's happening."

This Harper proposal would also put Denard Span on the bench and Harper himself in center field, the position he's politicked for weeks to play.

Williams has talked about daily designer lineups, constantly changing. Harper's suggestion amounts to a fixed lineup -- to his advantage. If Harper were 10 years more established in deeds, not dolls, it'd be audacious to manage a team after being on the DL for more than half of the Nats' previous 193 games. But to do it with one homer halfway into a season?

Anything else? How are those internal lines of communication working?

"I haven't talked to nobody about anything, so I have no clue," said Harper, who frequently mentioned how happy and excited he was to return but never smiled. "I know I'm playing left tonight, via Twitter. So I guess that's where I'm going."

And what about batting sixth?

"I'm in the lineup. That's all that matters. If I had the lineup, it would maybe not be the same. He's got the lineup card. He's got the pen. That's what he's doing," said Harper. "So there's nothing I can do about it. I'm hitting sixth tonight."

So, the manager has three players out of position, the wrong guy benched, Harper batting in the wrong spot and he has to learn about this stuff on Twitter.

"Hopefully, nobody kills themselves trying to get a bobblehead," said Harper, who knows just how central Nationals marketers have made him to the franchise's merchandising identity.

I cannot recall an example of a young major league player doing anything like this. We've seen it in basketball, when a very young Magic Johnson took on then-Lakers coach Paul Westhead, but in baseball? I've never seen nor heard of it. Bryce Harper is 21 years old.

What Harper said is potentially divisive, at the very least, in how he implicitly advocated for the benching of teammate Denard Span -- let alone that he disagreed with the decisions of his manager, Matt Williams, who benched him earlier this season for not running out a ball.

The tug-of-war appears to be on, already, in Harper's first day back: The Nationals' most prominent player vs. the team's manager.

Ryan Zimmerman moved back to third for a night.

Some trade stuff

1. It now appears all but certain that Red Sox ace Jon Lester will join Max Scherzer as the most prominent free agents in the market this fall. The Boston ownership -- which may have had its expectations skewed by Dustin Pedroia's team-friendly contract -- offered a Lester a well-below market value deal in the spring, at $70 million over four years.

And in recent weeks and days, the Red Sox have wanted to present another offer that will fall far below what Lester might expect to get in the market, particularly in light of Homer Bailey's $105 million deal. Given that, Lester's side wants to table the discussions until the fall.

Boston is still trying to climb back into the AL East race, but a question that faces the Red Sox front office now and into the months ahead is, how will it replace Lester?

This may create a hole that will turn out to be more expensive to fill, in prospects and/or salary, than if they had simply given Lester a $100 million offer in March.

2. Some officials believe that Seth Smith might be the most dangerous hitter traded before the July 31 deadline. Smith is hitting .273 for the Padres, with a .376 on-base percentage and an .861 OPS.

3. Brandon McCarthy has a $1 million assignment bonus in his contract, so if the Diamondbacks deal him, they'll likely have to eat that, as well as a lot of the salary owed to him for the rest of the season.

4. Rival officials say the Kansas City Royals don't appear to have a lot of financial flexibility in the last 31 days leading up to the trade deadline. If that's the case, the Royals would either have to look for bargains or creative trades. They signed Raul Ibanez for the minimum Monday, as Andy McCullough writes.

5. The Phillies appear to be ready to sell for prospects.

6. Yankees GM Brian Cashman is ready to rock and roll with trades. Some rival executives believe it's a sure thing that he will make a deal for a starting pitcher, given the uncertainty in the Yankees rotation. CC Sabathia continues to work his way back from knee trouble, but if he has a setback, it's possible that he would have to consider microfracture surgery.

Around the league

• After internal trade notes of the Houston Astros were published on Deadspin.com Monday, most rival officials seemed to feel sorry for the team, rather than be angry that details of discussions with other clubs had been leaked.

A lot of executives in baseball maintain those types of logs. "It could have happened to anybody," one high-ranking official said.

• Oscar Taveras was summoned by the Cardinals.

• On Monday's podcast, Billy Beane talked about how Sean Doolittle transitioned from position player to reliever. Plus border collies.

• Doolittle walked only his second batter of the season Monday, and then gave up a walk-off grand slam to Rajai Davis in a playoff rematch.

• Logan White interviewed for the vacant San Diego GM spot.

• The sound of George Springer's homer last night distinguishes it.

• Jake Arrieta was four outs away from a no-hitter against the Red Sox. He became the first pitcher with consecutive no-hit bids of at least six innings since Dave Stieb in September 1988. He is 4-0 with a 0.94 ERA and 39 strikeouts in his past four starts. He has taken a no-hit bid into the fifth inning in three of those four starts.

From ESPN Stats & Information, how Arrieta came so close to throwing a no-hitter against the Red Sox:

A. The Red Sox were 0-for-11 with four strikeouts against Arrieta's cutter; he has thrown his cutter 32.7 percent of time in his past four starts (.140 batting average against), compared with 10.0 percent in his first seven starts this season.
B. Opposing batters were 1-for-21 against his fastball or cutter.
C. Season-high 48 pitches and five strikeouts on pitches on inner half (Red Sox 0-for-11 on such pitches).

• San Diego had one hit Monday (and coincidentally won) and finished batting .171 as a team for the month. That is the worst team batting average for a full month since 1920. Jesse Hahn was dealing.

• Alcides Escobar powered the Royals.

• From ESPN Stats & Info: Despite an 0-for-3 performance Monday, Jose Altuve finished June hitting .411 with 17 stolen bases. He's just the seventh player to hit .400 with 15 steals in a calendar month during the past 100 seasons. Three of the previous players to do it are in the Hall of Fame. The full list:

Jose Altuve: June 2014
Brett Butler: July 1992
Tony Gwynn: August 1987
Rickey Henderson: June 1985
Cesar Cedeno: September 1977
Joe Morgan: April 1975
Johnny Neun: July 1927

• Ubaldo Jimenez was dealing.

• The Yankees have lost three straight.

• Manny Machado is upset his suspension wasn't reduced. Chris Davis is filling in at third base.

• Greg Colbrunn is back with the Red Sox.

• Frank Cashen, who passed away Monday, built a powerhouse.

And today will be better than yesterday.

Betts exemplifies new strategy for Boston.

NEW YORK -- One evaluator not paid by Boston offered this take on Mookie Betts, who will make his major league debut tonight, when the Red Sox try to take their three-game series against the Yankees on "Sunday Night Baseball" (8 p.m. ET, ESPN and WatchESPN):

“Tremendous feel for the strike zone,” the evaluator wrote. “Handles bat and is not a slap type. There is strength in the swing. Strong running ability. Defense really strong at second base. Limited time in center field, but early indications are that he is really solid.”

Another evaluator said: “He belongs in the major leagues. He’s a good player.”

Betts has almost as many extra-base hits (88) as strikeouts (90) over the past season and a half in the minors, with 132 walks and 67 stolen bases. He is 21 years old and slender and does not hit a lot of homers, yet. But his promotion, and the entrenchment of Brock Holt as an every-day player, seems to signal a change in direction for the Red Sox front office, a shift in lineup building. This is the Summer of the Improv.

Boston has an incredible history of power hitting, from Ted Williams to Carl Yastrzemski to Jim Rice to the 3-4 combination of David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez. In the midst of the 1977 season, the Red Sox slammed homers in 33 consecutive games. Home runs have always been the foundation of the Red Sox offense, including in 2013, when Boston clubbed 178 homers -- sixth-most in the majors -- on the way to winning the World Series.

The front office waited for the Red Sox to hit homers again in the first half, after signing A.J. Pierzynski to replace Jarrod Saltalamacchia and believing in Grady Sizemore enough to give him an every-day job.

But it just hasn’t happened; Boston is 24th in home runs, with 61, and incredibly, the Red Sox are 27th in runs. They have looked around for power hitters in the trade market, just like a lot of other teams, and have identified few options.

So now Boston is changing. Instead of waiting for bigger, slower hitters to start mashing homers, the working philosophy now seems to be: If you hit -- no matter how you hit -- you are going to play.

Holt opened the season in the minor leagues, and now he is Boston’s leadoff man, hitting .321. Along comes Betts, who could play right field or center, depending on the needs of the day. Pierzynski probably needs to show something soon or else he will be the next to go, to be replaced by Christian Vazquez, a strong defensive catcher who also doesn’t hit for a lot of power; he has three home runs in Triple-A this season, along with a .325 on-base percentage.

It’s possible that by the time Aug. 1 rolls around, the bulk of the Boston lineup might look like this:

1. Brock Holt
2. Mookie Betts
3. Dustin Pedroia
4. David Ortiz
5. Mike Napoli
6. Xander Bogaerts
9. Christian Vazquez

The rest of the lineup will be determined by who hits. Daniel Nava has improved his batting average from .130 to .216 since he was promoted; if he hits, he will play. Stephen Drew has one hit in 32 at-bats and quite simply looks terrible at the plate, completely off-balance. Bogaerts was moved from shortstop to third base and stopped hitting, but he will probably continue to play while he continues to develop.

The player who probably has the most to lose with the promotion of Betts is Jackie Bradley Jr., who knows Betts better than anyone, having roomed with him in instructional ball in the fall of 2011. Bradley’s defense has been exceptional, but at some point, the Red Sox will need better production from his spot; he is hitting .206 with a staggering 76 strikeouts and just 23 walks. The Red Sox could play Holt in center and Betts in right field, which is incredible, given that both were regarded as infielders just a month ago.

Whatever alignment evolves for the Red Sox, they won’t hit a lot of homers. But they should be pretty good defensively, they should put the ball in play more, and they will be more athletic, with almost half of their every-day lineup made up of players either in their first or second season.

They have waited for the old guard to hit, and it didn’t happen. Now the Red Sox will go with what they hope is basically a lineup of badgers -- not big, not powerful, but aggressive and relentless -- during a season in which the American League East is more mediocre than it has been in years and is there for the taking. It's there for the Blue Jays, for the Orioles, for the Yankees or for the Red Sox, depending on which team fixes their holes as best they can, as quickly as they can.

More on Yankees-Red Sox

• Ready or not, Mookie Betts got the call.

• Red Sox GM Ben Cherington hasn’t given up on the season. Why would he? The Blue Jays keep losing.

• Masahiro Tanaka must have been kicking himself overnight for how he lost Saturday, throwing a two-strike fastball to Mike Napoli with two outs in the ninth inning, nobody on base and Stephen Drew on deck, at a time when Drew looks absolutely lost at the plate.

Brian McCann had twice given the sign for a splitter.

Napoli was shouting the word “idiot” as he returned to the dugout. He said it was nothing directed at Tanaka. More from Napoli: “He had me right where he wanted me.”

Tanaka paid for the mistake, writes Bob Klapisch.

• Jon Lester had a great day.

Around the league

• This news should come with bells ringing: Giancarlo Stanton is going to participate in the Home Run Derby.

• Think about this: The Dodgers could be tied for first place by the end of today. They jumped on the Cardinals, and Zack Greinke was dominant. Later in the night, the Giants lost in extra innings again, after Sergio Romo blew another save chance.

Afterward, San Francisco manager Bruce Bochy acknowledged he could switch to another closer. From Andrew Baggarly’s piece:
The first question: Is Romo, after allowing 15 runs in his last 15 innings, still the closer on this team?

Bochy didn’t say no. He didn’t say yes, either.

“Oh, I don’t know,” the manager said. “I won’t answer it now. It’s something I’m sure we’ll talk about here tomorrow. He’s done such a good job for us. I know everybody has their moments. If we have to tweak it, we’ll tweak it. This is not the time to talk about it.”

Bochy likes to talk to players before he announces any role changes publicly. Romo still has an 81.4 percent save conversion rate this season. But he also has gotten tagged for six home runs, already matching his single-season high.

He worked on making an adjustment after becoming too predictable. He was throwing some good pitches in the ninth. But he issued a leadoff walk to Joey Votto, and then threw a 2-2 slider to Brandon Phillips that caught way too much of the plate.

Romo wanted to throw it low. He threw low-hanging fruit, instead.

“I feel I’ve been getting back in the groove again … and today was obviously a setback,” Romo said. “It’s legitimately one pitch away. It’s making that last pitch, putting them away. That’s what I’m missing right now. Today was a setback but it doesn’t [affect] my confidence. I’m one pitch away.

“It’s understanding the game, understanding myself and what’s happening. The game adjusts to you, you adjust back.”

• A refrain heard over and over from general managers: It is going to be difficult finding quality position players at an acceptable price in the trade market.

• The Marlins are the latest team to experience the relentless nature of the Oakland lineup. They lost in extra innings, again. Jeff Francis came through for Oakland, as Susan Slusser writes.

Along the way, however, Josh Reddick injured his knee.

• Ian Kinsler has had a great run through Texas this week. Max Scherzer had 13 strikeouts. From ESPN Stats & Info, how Scherzer put up big numbers against Houston:

A) He averaged a season-high 93.4 mph with his fastball.
B) Hitters were 2-for-13 with seven strikeouts and no hard-hit balls off the fastball.
C) He induced a season-high 13 swings-and-misses with his fastball.

• Carlos Gomez suffered a neck strain in the Brewers’ win Saturday.

• Bryce Harper bashed three homers in a minor league game, so it appears rehab is close to over.

• Michael Wacha's injury perplexes the Cardinals, writes Derrick Goold. From Derrick’s piece:
Cardinals manager Mike Matheny had just returned to his office at Busch Stadium from the dugout after a victory, and was about to enjoy that quiet, fleeting bliss that comes only immediately after a win.

That’s when general manager John Mozeliak told him what they had lost.

“Shock,” Matheny later described as his reaction.

During last Sunday’s game, while Carlos Martinez pitched in place of a resting Michael Wacha, the team received and organized opinions from medical officials and specialists that led to a new reality: Wacha was going to get more than a game off.

The righthanded starter was going on the disabled list because of a “stress reaction” to the scapula bone in his right shoulder. The “kick to the gut” Matheny described came with the added thud that the Cardinals don’t know when Wacha will return and that’s not because of the injury he has. It’s because of what the injury could become.

A stress reaction “is a precursor to a stress fracture. A stress fracture is a precursor to a possible fracture,” Mozeliak outlined in a conversation with the Post-Dispatch. “We feel good that this was caught early.”

The immediate plan for Wacha is two weeks of rest and a re-evaluation at the end of that stretch that will include another series of scans of his rotator cuff and scapula.

Mozeliak, speaking on behalf of the organization when it comes to medical details, said that doctors saw a positive in that “the healing has begun.”

Rest and urging blood flow to the area will continue to promote recovery. Mozeliak struck one note of caution: “We don’t know when he’ll be back.”

Dings and dents

1. The Phillies don’t know when Carlos Ruiz will be back.

2. The MRI on David Wright turned up negative.

3. Dylan Bundy will start Thursday.

4. The Braves are trying to avoid a DL assignment for Evan Gattis. With Christian Bethancourt called up from the minors, Atlanta swept a doubleheader, as Carroll Rogers writes.

5. Derek Holland pitched a simulated game.

6. Trevor Plouffe is set to return Monday, writes Mike Berardino.

7. Chris Owings's shoulder is not getting better, writes Zach Buchanan.

8. Jhoulys Chacin is concerned about his lack of arm strength.

9. Two Dodgers got hurt, as Dylan Hernandez writes.

Moves, deals and decisions

1. Lloyd McClendon thinks Felix Hernandez should start the All-Star Game.

Hey, if Tanaka isn’t available, he’s absolutely right.

2. Matt Gelb wonders how long the Phillies can wait for Domonic Brown to turn it around.

3. Brian Cashman reiterated that he is looking for pitching.

4. The Blue Jays are watching Jeff Samardzija, writes Bob Elliott.

Saturday’s games

1. Gerrit Cole had a tough day.

2. The Twins have spiraled into five straight losses.

3. Wei-Yin Chen struggled against the Rays.

4. Erik Bedard was outstanding.

5. Jerome Williams gave up a game-winning home run.

6. Bruce Chen stumbled against the Angels.

7. The Brewers continue to be very good and very lucky, as Michael Hunt writes.

8. The Cubs lost a doubleheader.

9. The Angels keep on rolling.

10. The Nationals completed a sweep.

11. Yu Darvish went to his go-to pitch, writes Evan Grant.

12. The Cincinnati Reds are rolling. They found a way to beat the Giants in extra innings.

13. Josh Tomlin was "the man" against the Mariners.

14. Dayan Viciedo had a big swing for the White Sox.

NL Central

• Ernesto Frieri expects to be new and better.

• The Pirates have taken a big jump in offense.

• Billy Hamilton's good games are helping the Reds.

• The Manny Ramirez headache seems to have passed.

NL West

• Miguel Montero is throwing out more baserunners.

• The Rockies have had plenty of pain but no gain, writes Nick Groke.

• Huston Street has been a model of consistency.

AL East

• Dan Duquette addressed a lot of topics in the state of the Orioles discussion.

• Jake McGee threw a great pitch.

AL Central

• Justin Verlander's past two games have been encouraging, says Detroit pitching coach Jeff Jones.

• Zach Putnam is giving the White Sox some closure.

AL West

• Jason Grilli believes he will get a chance to close again, writes Jeff Fletcher.

• An unusual switch worked for the Rangers.

• Dave Valle is enjoying his new gig, writes Larry Stone.

Other stuff

• According to ESPN projections, Bo Jackson's home run from 1986 was just a little farther than the one hit by Mike Trout the other day.

• Paul Hoynes writes about how managers manage the use of instant replay.

• Rick Peterson is perfecting pitching techniques.

• There are no openly gay players active yet, but some Blue Jays think it’s only a matter of time.

• Specialization has led to the surge in Tommy John surgeries, according to Travis Sawchik.

• Seventy-five years ago, Lou Gehrig provided a face of courage.

• Some in baseball aren’t buying the link between tobacco and cancer, writes Daniel Brown.

And today will be better than yesterday.

MLB's most shocking first-half storylines.

We've reached the midway point in the 2014 MLB season, when teams are turning the corner on the 81-game mark. A good or bad week in April or May might’ve been classified as a slump or a streak, but now the sample size is big enough to draw some larger conclusions.

With that in mind, here are the eight most shocking things to me about the first half of the 2014 season:

1. It's stunning how bad the Tampa Bay Rays are

They are 33-49 and 12 games out of first place in the AL East, despite the fact that the division is relatively mediocre this year. Matt Moore was among the legions of pitchers lost to Tommy John surgery, and this undoubtedly has hurt, but the extent of the Rays’ struggles are mind-boggling. Third baseman Evan Longoria, who needs to be the anchor of the lineup, ranks 87th among all players in OPS, at .740 -- and he is the best every-day player the Rays have.

It seemed within the realm of possibility that the Rays would run out of bullpen pixie dust, or that they would have the usual struggles of a franchise that operates without much margin for error and be taken down by injuries.

But they can’t really blame injuries this season, and mediocrity has infected them almost across the board. They’re 28th in runs, they’re 16th in starters’ ERA, 19th in bullpen ERA and they’ve got the worst record in the majors.

That’s shocking for a team that has won at least 90 games in five of the last six seasons.

2. It’s shocking how much the Brewers are winning

Sure, they looked like an interesting team in spring training, given the depth of their rotation and the return of Ryan Braun. But they have won 50 games already; if they went 24-56 the rest of the season, the Brewers would match their 2013 record. They’ve got the best run differential in the NL, at plus-43.

The Brewers won with a walk-off on Friday.

3. It’s shocking how bad the Red Sox offense is

Last year, Boston scored 57 more runs than any other team in baseball. Yes, Jacoby Ellsbury and Jarrod Saltalamacchia departed as free agents, but the notion that the Boston team that slugged its way to a championship would disintegrate into one of the league’s worst offenses defies any logic. But this is what the Red Sox are, 26th in the majors in runs, their worst showing in two decades.

The Red Sox haven’t promoted Mookie Betts and Christian Vazquez yet, but they’re not that far away. Typically, the Boston front office would never think about using a lineup that had relatively light power hitters at catcher (if Vazquez is promoted), at second base (Dustin Pedroia's slugging percentage is down to a career-low .377), at shortstop and in the outfield. Typically, the Red Sox front office wouldn’t think about running out so many youngsters, with Betts and Vazquez soon to join Jackie Bradley Jr. and Xavier Bogaerts.

But they have nothing to lose.

4. It’s shocking how quickly Billy Hamilton is improving

The folks who know Hamilton well talk about his relentless optimism, his confidence that he will solve problems. But still, if you happened to see Hamilton’s at-bats early in the season, he looked like something of a long-term project -- somebody who would need two or three seasons to gain some stability in his approach at the plate.

Instead, he has progressed from looking completely overwhelmed to driving the ball to doing damage -- along with ascending into one of the best outfielders in MLB. Remember: Two years ago, he was still a shortstop.

As of Saturday morning, Hamilton ranks 24th among all position players in WAR -- slightly ahead of Jose Abreu and Chase Utley.

For the month of June, Hamilton has a slugging percentage of .500 -- yes, .500 -- and while he’s likely to go through some more growing pains, his rate of progression is shocking.

The Reds continue to improve, and Johnny Cueto shut down the Giants on Friday.

5. It’s shocking that the Dodgers have bullpen issues

Kenley Jansen was one of the best closers in the big leagues last year, and behind the big right-hander, the Dodgers stacked up so many options – Brian Wilson, J.P. Howell, Brandon League and Chris Perez, in addition to Chris Withrow and Paco Rodriguez. No position sees more frequent ups and downs than relief pitchers, but the idea that the Dodgers could spend that much on a bullpen and still be scrambling for depth at midseason ... well, that’s really incredible. Wilson and others have struggled, and Withrow is out for the year after getting hurt -- and the Dodgers rank 11th among 15 NL teams in bullpen ERA.

Ned Colletti would like a rewrite on the bullpen, writes Dylan Hernandez.

6. It’s shocking that Justin Verlander has struggled as much as he has

Three years ago he became the first starting pitcher in decades to win the Cy Young Award and MVP in the same season, and just last October, he dominated Oakland and the Boston Red Sox in the postseason: He struck out 31 and walked three in 23 innings, allowing just two runs. He was awesome.

Now he’s in the bottom 10 among all qualified pitchers in ERA, at 4.80, and you keep waiting for him to turn the corner, as he did last season. It hasn’t happened yet. Verlander allowed three runs in six innings against the Astros on Friday, in Detroit’s 4-3 loss, striking out eight and walking one.

After the game, Verlander spoke positively, as always, and detailed some of his mechanical issues. From John Lowe’s story:

Asked how significant this overhaul is: “I can tell you no pitch has felt completely normal, not yet. I’m fighting bad habits, I think. So Brad and I, and Jeff and I, had talked about this -- when you’re changing something, it’s going to take a little while for it to feel normal until you don’t have to fight it any more.”

On his discussion with [Manager Brad] Ausmus and [pitching coach Jeff] Jones the day after the Kansas City start: “We really grinded over some video and some past video. We found something to change. It’s not easy, but I feel like the results have been much better. The swings, the strikeouts, seem definitely like the direction I want to go in.” In each of his two starts since the overhaul began, he has recorded eight strikeouts, matching his season high.
7. It’s shocking how well Josh Beckett is throwing

Yes, he was confident in spring training after regaining the feeling in his pitching hand, following surgery, and yes, he rediscovered his curveball. But he has posted the fifth-best ERA in the majors so far, at 2.11, and opponents have a .614 OPS against him, which is only 230 points lower than last season. That’s insane.

8. It’s shocking that the Nationals haven’t seized the NL East by the throat

Really. They lead the majors in ERA, at 3.12, built on the dominance of Stephen Strasburg and Jordan Zimmermann and, lately, Doug Fister. They’ve got Gio Gonzalez at the back end of their rotation, and their bullpen has the second-best ERA in the big leagues.

And yet, the Nationals wake up today in a flat-footed tie with the Braves, with a 41-38 record, in spite of the fact that Atlanta lost three of its five projected starters to season-ending injuries and the Braves’ lineup is often dysfunctional.

Why don’t the Nationals play better? Why aren’t they better, considering the talent on the roster? “They make a lot of mistakes,” said one evaluator recently. “A lot.”

Errors aren’t the perfect metric for measuring defense, but once again, Washington is among the worst teams in that category, and the Nationals have allowed 44 unearned runs, which ranks behind only the Indians (50) and the Rangers (46). Some evaluators believe that Wilson Ramos’ absence -- injuries have limited him to just 26 games this season – are a big part of the problem.

• Mike Trout mashed a 489-foot homer. Somebody should at least ask Trout if he is interested in participating in the Home Run Derby, because he is the game’s best player and he certainly is worthy of the event, ranking in the top five in the majors in average home run distance.

Trout said after the game that he doesn’t know what his response would be about the Derby, if asked.


The Royals’ estimate was different than ESPN’s estimate, as Andy McCullough writes.

• On Friday’s podcast, Justin Havens and Karl Ravech ranked the top 10 pitches among starting pitchers in the big leagues, with Adam Wainwright's curve and Clayton Kershaw's slider among them; the Houston Chronicle’s Evan Drellich discussed the 2014 setbacks for two highly touted Astros prospects.

• Jose Abreu blasted homers No. 24 and 25.

• Phillies broadcaster Tom McCarthy made a great career move after catching a home run, and threw it back.

• The Pirates’ Josh Harrison did an incredible job surviving a rundown.

• The Red Sox lost and David Ortiz explained why he is not happy with the schedule.

The Yankees put together three homers.

With the Red Sox struggling, this rivalry is on hold, writes Mike Vaccaro. I’d respectfully disagree; these two teams are currently near the height of desperation, particularly Boston, in a winnable division.

• Jason Hammel continues to pitch well, as he is positioned for a deal by the Cubs.

• The Reds signed a defector from Cuba to a seven-year deal.

Moves, deals and decisions

1. The Angels and Pirates traded problems -- deposed closers Jason Grilli and Ernesto Frieri. From Jenn Menendez’s piece:

Grilli has not been the Grilli of 2013 after returning from an oblique strain in late May. His batting average against was .275, and most recently gave up four hits and two runs in two-thirds of an inning Wednesday against Tampa Bay.

“The oblique strain kind of threw him off track,” said Huntington. “He got away from being as aggressive as he was before the injury. When he was successful here he pitched as if he had nothing to lose. He just wasn’t quite as sharp. A few mistakes got hit hard. A few things didn’t go his way.”

Grilli took the news pretty hard.

“He was shaken up. This is the hard part of the game. The human element is part of it,” said Huntington. “I think he was surprised, truly surprised that we moved him at this point in time.

“I think he was planning on working through his challenges here, as we were. Then this came together and we decided to make a move.”




Angels GM Jerry Dipoto says the trade was made with the idea that a change in scenery might help both guys. From Bill Shaikin’s story:

Dipoto said he is not finished working on trades to improve the bullpen. The Angels would like to add a veteran late-inning reliever, ideally a left-handed one, and they might still need a closer.

"This is a step," Dipoto said. "I'd be surprised if this is the only step."

While the Angels would like Grilli to establish himself as their closer, they are making him no promises.

"Whether Jason Grilli returns to the ninth inning will have to be determined by Jason Grilli," Dipoto said.


2. Felix Doubront was moved to the Boston bullpen.

3. The Tigers suddenly have a glut of middle infielders.

4. The Cardinals shouldn’t trade Oscar Taveras, writes Bernie Miklasz.

5. A couple of Rangers are not letting trade possibilities sidetrack them, writes Evan Grant.

6. Michael Saunders was activated from the disabled list, as Bob Dutton writes.

7. A couple of Arizona pitchers are blocking out trade talk.

8. Larry Beinfest interviewed for the Padres’ job.

Dings and dents

1. David Wright has a shoulder injury.

2. CC Sabathia will make a rehab start today.

3. The Harper brothers played together.

4. Cliff Lee was encouraged by his workout. It seems inevitable that he could be a target for the Yankees, because the most important question for the Phillies is: How many teams would actually be able to take on his contract?

5. Carlos Ruiz landed on the disabled list with a concussion.

6. The Jays are hoping that Jose Bautista can return this weekend.

7. Shelby Miller feels better.

8. Evan Gattis had to depart with a muscle spasm.

9. Tanner Scheppers acknowledged his season could be over.

10. The Astros’ staff ace will miss his next start.

11. Wilin Rosario’s tough season continued, as Patrick Saunders writes: Rosario had some back tightness.

Friday’s games

1. Nick Hundley hit his first homer for the Orioles, in a split.

2. Tanner Roark struggled.

3. The long ball hurt R.A. Dickey.

4. Madison Bumgarner had a bad inning.

5. The Indians struggled in the clutch.

6. The Twins were befuddled.

7. Freddie Freeman had a big day.

8. The Rangers ended their losing streak.

9. Oakland came back to win. Again.

10. Endy Chavez hit a big homer for the Mariners.

AL East

• Pedroia insists he will get hot at the plate.

• Joe Girardi is not going to lean on Masahiro Tanaka.

• From The Elias Sports Bureau: Derek Jeter played his first game as a 40-year-old on Friday night. Forty-year-old Ichiro Suzuki was also in the Yankees starting lineup.

This marks the first time in Yankees franchise history that two non-pitchers, both age 40 or older, started a game together for the Yankees. Including pitchers, the last pair of 40-year-old players to start a game for the Yankees is Andy Pettitte and Raul Ibanez in 2012.

• Mark Buehrle just keeps rolling along.

• Jake McGee is hoping for an All-Star nod.

AL Central

• The Royals took the series opener.

• Paul Hoynes addresses the status of Lonnie Chisenhall.

AL West

• A couple of Oakland pitchers played catch at the beach.

NL East

• From ESPN Stats & Info, how Julio Teheran beat the Phillies:

A) His fastball averaged 92.2 mph, tied for season high set in season opener on March 31.
B) Hitters were 1-for-9 with seven strikeouts against Teheran's fastball; opponents entered hitting .243 against his fastball.
C) He held opponents to 1-for-8 with runners on (.125).

NL Central

• A healthy Aramis Ramirez is helping the Brewers.


Lastly

• Carroll Rogers, a great pro, is leaving the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

• The Athletics’ ballpark situation continues to be a mess, writes Carolyn Jones.

• The best San Francisco pitcher ever is not Tim Lincecum, but Juan Marichal, writes Bruce Jenkins.

• Brandon Guyer did a really nice thing.

And today will be better than yesterday.

What would it take to get David Price?

Player: David Price | LHP | Tampa Bay Rays
Possible destinations: St. Louis Cardinals, Atlanta Braves, Los Angeles Dodgers and Toronto Blue Jays

St. Louis Cardinals

Why? The Cardinals have had a plethora of pitching injuries lately, including shoulder injuries to Michael Wacha and Jaime Garcia, a forearm injury to Kevin Siegrist, a hamstring injury to Joe Kelly and a back injury to Shelby Miller. A trade for Price would give them a postseason rotation of Price, Adam Wainwright, Lance Lynn and Wacha, a group that compares favorably to those in Los Angeles (the Dodgers) and D.C.

Who? The Rays will start by asking for outfield prospect Oscar Tavares. If they could get Wil Myers for James Shields, then Tavares for Price only makes sense. However, St. Louis GM John Mozeliak will say "no," as he will when Rays GM Andrew Friedman follows up with "how about Wacha?"

Then the conversation will get serious and the Cardinals will probably have to part with either right-hander Miller or Carlos Martinez, as well as left-hander Marco Gonzalez. The deal could be expanded to include Ben Zobrist going to the Cardinals and Kolten Wong going back to the Rays. The Cardinals need to improve their offense at second base, and with Zobrist becoming a free agent, like Price, after the 2015 season, the Rays would love to get Wong during his non-arbitration years and control him for the next five years.

Will it happen? If the Cardinals want Price, they have the best chance to get him because no team has more young major league pitching ready to trade.

Atlanta Braves

Why? The Braves' philosophy of winning has revolved around elite starting pitching. Just ask Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine, who will both be inducted into the Hall of Fame in a few weeks. Every time I've talked to Braves GM Frank Wren, he has always told me his No. 1 need is a "true No. 1 starter," recognizing there are only about a dozen in the game. While the Braves have some elite arms, none fit the "true No. 1" mold like Price does.

Who? The Rays will start the conversation by asking for Atlanta's top three prospects: righty pitchers Lucas Sims and J.R. Graham, as well as catcher Christian Bethancourt. The Braves won't include both Sims and Graham, and they'll balk at Bethancourt as well because he’s their future catcher when Gattis moves to left field in the next year or two.

The Rays will then ask for left-hander Alex Wood, along with Sims and shortstop Jose Peraza, whom the Braves could part with only because their present shortstop, Andrelton Simmons, is the best defensive shortstop in baseball and they have him signed through 2020. The Braves would ask for another player back, and the deal could become cumbersome -- just like the Shields-Myers deal did -- and turn from one-for-one to a seven-player blockbuster.

Will it happen? The Rays would prefer to trade Price to the National League, which is a plus for the Braves. However, Atlanta doesn't have the major league-ready players that a team like the Cardinals can offer, which is a disadvantage. That said, the Braves do have enough to get Price if they really want him.

Los Angeles Dodgers

Why? The Dodgers are built to win the World Series, and anything less than that will be considered a failure. Do they need Price? No, not with a rotation already featuring Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke. But when you have the largest payroll in baseball -- and are focused on winning it all -- why not strive for perfection?

Who? The Rays will start by asking for shortstop Corey Seager and center fielder Joc Pederson. The Dodgers will say no to both. The Dodgers' long-term outfield plan is for Yasiel Puig to be in right with Pederson in center and Matt Kemp in left. And if they are able to extend Hanley Ramirez with a long-term deal, they plan on moving him to third base with Seager at shortstop, Dee Gordon at second and Adrian Gonzalez at first. The Dodgers are committed to having young players from their own system become the future core of this team. Besides, if you want to add another starter, why not just sign Max Scherzer at the end of the season or Price when he’s a free agent at the end of next season?

That doesn’t mean the Dodgers won’t try to trade for Price. The Dodgers do have a bevy of pitching prospects they can dangle, including Julio Urias, Zach Lee, Chris Reed and Chris Anderson, as well as second baseman Alex Guerrero who’s expendable due to the rapid development of Gordon.

Will it happen? The Dodgers have enough to make it work without Pederson and Seager, but I’m not sure it makes much sense since they already have an elite staff. A couple of minor deals for bullpen depth makes more sense, but never bet against the Dodgers' willingness to make bold moves (or spend) to win a championship.

Toronto Blue Jays

Why? The Blue Jays have a legitimate chance of winning the AL East for the first time since I was a rookie GM in Cincinnati back in 1993, which was also the last time they won 90 or more games. After a 21-year drought they have to go for it.

Who? The Rays will start the conversation by asking for right-handed pitching prospect Aaron Sanchez. Without Sanchez in the deal, it's going to be difficult to see how these two teams will match up. The Rays would also need another good prospect in the deal, and someone like 19-year-old shortstop Alberto Tirado could get it done. There is also a possibility of Marcus Stroman being offered or asked for instead of Sanchez, but he has recently become a big part of Toronto's success this year.

Will it happen? If the Rays can’t get the prospects they want from the Cardinals, Braves or Dodgers, then the Blue Jays have a real chance of getting Price compared to the rest of the American League because they have an elite young starter to offer -- something the Los Angeles Angels, Chicago White Sox and New York Yankees do not.

Top bounce-back candidates.

If everything you expected to happen in baseball actually happened, baseball wouldn't be very exciting.
Inevitably, some players we expect big things from will disappoint during the season. Luckily, things in baseball can turn around quickly -- just look at the Dodgers and Giants the past couple weeks -- and a number of the first-half disappointments will spend the summer months making us forget their subpar performances during the spring months.

Here are eight players I believe are strong bets to turn their storylines around in the season's second half.

lastname
Eric Hosmer, 1B, Kansas City Royals
Hosmer was also one of my bounce-back candidates at this point two years ago. In 2012, he did not have that second-half recovery, but I don't think history will repeat itself. His 2013 season was as good as his rookie campaign, and certainly enough to dispel any notion that his .293/.334/.465, 19-homer debut season in 128 games in 2011 was not some flash-in-the-pan fluke. ZiPS still likes him to hit .282/.334/.426 the rest of the way, and given what little the Royals have gotten from him thus far, they'd no doubt take that. The effect is hard to ascertain, but I'm inclined to give Hosmer the benefit of the doubt given that he isn't the only talented Royals hitter having a weird up-and-down career as the team churns through hitting coaches. Still just 24, I'm not about to throw the towel in on the third pick in the 2008 draft.

lastname
Francisco Liriano, SP, Pittsburgh Pirates
While it was unreasonable to expect him to fully repeat his 2013 success, the Pirates' plan to get back into the playoffs surely didn't involve Liriano spending much of the first half trying to keep his ERA below 5. His command hasn't been as sharp as last year, but that was always the downside to Liriano, who has had occasional lapses in the past and will never be as masterful as, say, Adam Wainwright. But his slider remains nasty, and out of all the pitchers with 50-plus innings this season, he has the lowest overall contact rate at 68 percent, well ahead of the next three of Tyson Ross (71.1 percent), Jose Fernandez (71.1 percent), and Clayton Kershaw (71.5 percent). That's not just a product of Liriano's tendency toward wildness, either, as he still ranks in the top 10 in contact rate when only looking at pitches in the strike zone.

Liriano's peripheral numbers (3.99 FIP, 3.49 xFIP) also suggest a pitcher who's better than his ERA indicates. ZiPS projects a 3.41 ERA for Liriano the rest of the way.

lastname
Chase Headley, 3B, San Diego Padres
Who says that every player has a big year in their contract season? The biggest culprit in Headley's ugly line (.204/.293/.327 through June 29) is his .248 BABIP, some 80 points below his career mark of .330. That's not a product of him making worse contact, either, as his 24 percent line-drive rate is a career high, and the xBABIP calculator (which estimates expected BABIP from hit-ball data) suggests .336 as the more realistic BABIP for a batter hitting as Headley has this season. Or in non-stat nerd translation, he's hitting them where they are rather than hitting them where they ain't. ZiPS projects a .243/.329/.392 line from Headley the rest of the way, solid numbers even while playing half his games in that graveyard of runs known as Petco Park. Headley is shaping up to be an excellent down-the-stretch acquisition for a contending team if the Padres read the writing on the wall.

Oh, and who was the last player I talked about xBABIP in this space? That would be Carlos Santana, who has brought his OPS from .632 to .755 over the past three weeks.

lastname
Zack Wheeler, SP, New York Mets
The conventional wisdom suggests that Wheeler has been a major disappointment this season. But that would be wrong. Wheeler's 4.45 ERA doesn't exactly scream success, but he has increased his strikeout rate by 20 percent from his rookie season while knocking 10 percent off his walk rate. There's a big gap between his ERA and 3.28 Fielding Independent Pitching rate (FIP), and when ERA and FIP have a no-holds-barred throwdown, FIP is the one that usually wins. ZiPS projects a 3.56 ERA for Wheeler the rest of the way.

lastname
Bryce Harper, OF, Washington Nationals
Harper, as much as any young player in baseball, seems to suffer mostly from the fact that he is not Mike Trout. The buzz around Harper is that his career so far has been uninspiring, but if 20-year-olds with an .854 OPS grew on trees, not only would the Yankees have bought a whole orchard, but everything I learned in seventh grade would be wrong.

The only question about Harper this season that shouldn't be answered with laughter is the concern about his thumb injury, but by all accounts the Nationals have been cautious with his recovery. Ask the minor league pitchers against whom Harper went 9-for-14 with four homers and a 2.308 OPS last week if he's healthy enough to swing a bat effectively. ZiPS has Harper hitting .280/.362/.513 in the second half, and he's the addition to the roster that the Atlanta Braves will have trouble figuring out.

If you play in a fantasy league and Harper's owner is still concerned about his injury, now's the time to be a "good friend" and relieve that owner of those concerns via trade.

lastname
Ernesto Frieri, RP, Pirates
The Frieri-for-Jason Grilli trade is a classic challenge trade: two struggling players at the same position being traded for each other. This is one the Pirates won. Frieri's fastball still hits the mid-90s, and unlike his previous downswings in performance, this one isn't the result of his control falling apart. In fact, Frieri's walk rate this season is by far the best of his major league career. The issue comes down to his eight homers allowed in just 32 innings, but home runs allowed tend to be one of the most volatile statistics for pitchers, unlike hitters. ZiPS projects a 2.73 ERA for Frieri in Pittsburgh, as the team once again finds its next closer essentially for free.

lastname
Domonic Brown, OF, Philadelphia Phillies
Coming into this season, I didn't exactly project Billy Hamilton to have a slugging percentage 80 points higher than Domonic Brown in 2014. Neither did you, I'd guess. The Phillies have a lot of problems, but Brown's lack of power this year is one of their issues that didn't result from a self-inflicted wound.

In "Major League," a movie that probably 100 percent of people reading this have seen, the character Willie Mays Hayes had to do 20 pushups every time he hit the ball in the air. Brown needs the opposite approach; his 53.7 percent ground-ball rate fits a high-batting average hitter or one with a lot of speed to burn. Suffice it to say, Brown is neither. There's little change in his contact rate this season from last year's successful season, but he's driving the ball right into the ground. Jose Bautista didn't become Jose Bautista until he fully embraced the "grip-it-and-rip-it" approach, and while Brown won't ever be Bautista, him slugging somewhere in the .450 range will help the Phillies hang on to their delusions that they're playoff contenders just a bit longer.

lastname
Kenley Jansen, RP, Los Angeles Dodgers
If you wanted a poster boy for the limitations of ERA in short stretches, you'd probably choose Jansen. (You'd also be developing a rather odd poster.) This year Jansen has been as dominating as ever; even Craig Kimbrel can't scoff at a pitcher who strikes out 15 batters per nine innings. Jansen's FIP of 1.92 tells a more accurate story (1.99 last year, 2.02 career) about what he will do down the stretch. His .413 BABIP is completely unsustainable. Let's put it this way: Non-pitchers being used as pitchers have been historically in the .330 to .340 BABIP range, and it's indisputable that Jansen is harder to hit than a random outfielder thrown into the game for a garbage-time inning.
 
Andruw Jones is the ******* man that's why. First ballot.

BTW, IDK why some of these dumb *** writers are killing Harper for his stance on the lineup. It's been all year with this loser Matt Williams trying to show he's in charge with Harper. He's had some of the most head scratching lineups I've seen in a while. Harper is not wrong about anything he said.
Matt Williams is a ******* hardo. I don't really like him, but he's Rizzo's boy so we're stuck with him for the long run. The only problem I have with Harper's new lineup is that it leaves Espinosa in there :x I'm glad Harper called Williams out after that ******** benching earlier in the year. Werth/LaRoche/Ramos/Desmond and Zimmeran have done worse jogging down the first baseline and Williams did nothing about it. **** irked me.

And Thomas Boswell is the Dan Shaughnessy of DC. Says stuff just for controversy.
 
Forgot about that Edmonds gem. :hat Dude was filthy in CF.

*flamesuit activated* Willie Mays catch is INSANELY overrated

Come at me bros.

It is if you don't consider the context of the the catch. That is what makes it great. It was during the World Series and it saved a crucial run. Also, it was in the Polo Grounds and there was a lot more room to cover, fences were back 420 feet in that park. I know NL West teams hate Coors Field due to it's OF dimensions, mucho ground to cover.

Clayton Kershaw, best pitcher in baseball...

“But win the National League West? No chance. It’s over. The San Francisco Giants don’t have the talent the Dodgers have, but they have the kind of team the Dodgers crave. The Giants are the definition of a true team. The Dodgers are the true definition of a sabermetric nightmare.”

That was written in a national publication by a nationally known writer about a month ago....:lol :lol :lol :lol
 
Last edited:
I get the context of the catch, but I equate it similarly to the Dr. J windmill dunk. Overrated.
 
It's greatness to greatness, they're both blowing their respective leagues outta the water. I'd just leave it at that.
 
So many things to talk about in here. Willie Mays catch at the time was beyond the realm of possibility. The Polo Grounds outfield was ridiculously strange and off the bat everyone thought it was going to be a triple maybe n inside the park, but the most amazing part was Mays throwing the ball back into the infield to stop the runner from advancing. Willie Mays = 2nd greatest player ever. Andruw Jones is the greatest defensive center fielder I've ever seen, but probably won't get into the hall.

Is Kershaw not the best pitcher in baseball? Cueto and Felix are the only pitchers maybe better.

Also, if the Beltran doesn't strike out against Wainwright in 06 and the Mets win, does that Endy Chavez catch go down as best ever?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom