Although both share(d) pinnacle hip hop popularity, how come Nas never mainstreamed as well as jay?

[Jordan8]

When yall gonna realize Nas isnt an artist hes a great rapper Jay is a great rapper/artist.

And dont act like Nas didnt try to go mainstream I ruled the world, track with R. Kelly, Oochie Wally

, Hero,

Jay knows how to make intelluctual political raps and he also knows how to make Big Pimpin, I Just Wanna love You, Hard Knock

Nas ear for music just became more diverse he tried to make an album with southern producers and he still picked some East Coast sounding beats.

Nas has a comfort zone with beats. You rarely hear him jumpin on abeat thats unorthodox even on Hero a club based track he was sounding uncomfortable losinghis breath and sit.

And stop actin like Jay is more public then Nas. jay is almost as sheltered as Nasir Jay is just more interesting. You dont see Jay in everybody videos showingup in interviews every month. nas is just a boring character outside of the booth. While Jay is married to Beyonce and infortrated corporate America

Thats why Jay > Nas

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise


Jay Z & NaS represent 2 totally different things... If you look @ their last albums, American Gangster & Untitled... Where Jay Z is trying to reclaim his spot as a coke rapper and i guess double or triple cement his legacy in being one of the first cats on the hustler tip... NaS just views the world with a broader view, and it shows in the music he makes. I mean with each album NaS puts himself of the cross for hip hop, he takes A LOT of risks, only for the sake of speaking truth to power... Jay even refrences takin a half step in the direction on "D.O.A." ("I might upset my political connects")... NaS has never gave a *+!! about that... Listen to his verse on "Live @ The BBQ"

Since he came out he would always have politically driven subject matter that left you thinking far beyond the 3 1/2 minute�song... Look @ IWW I'm prolly the #1 hater of this album on this board, but this album dropped during the PEAK of the East Coast vs West Coast battle, there was a lot of infighting with East Coast artists, something we never really knew till a few years later (Courtesy of Nas - "Last real N Alive")... The single NaS chooses to drop, "If I Ruled The World" not only is it one of the BEST hip hop records of all time, its EXTREMELY thought provoking to this day... He later dropped the "Streets Dreams" Remix, lyrically he was tackling a bigger subjects than a coastal fued... he was speaking to a nation. His music transcneded the street oreintated hip hop that rules the 90s... This N stood for something much greater...

As far as popularity goes... I mean this is a conversation that comes up a lot, and it makes me

�almost everytime... (I'm frontin, It makes me

�EVERYTIME)... I'm gonna explain to you why...

Illmatic - Released: April 19th 1994 ... Debut @ #12 - Certified Platinum
It Was Written - Released: July 2nd 1996 ... Debut @ #1 (stayed there for a month) 2x Platinum
I�Am... - Released: April 6th 1999 ... Debut @ #1 - 2x Platinum
Nastradamus - Released: November 23rd 1999... Debut @ #7 - Platinum
Stillmatic - Realeased: December 18th 2001... Debut @ #5 - Platinum
God's Son - Released: December 13th 2002... Debut @ #12 - Platinum
Streets Disciple - Released: November 30th 2004 - Debut @ #5 - Platinum (according to wiki ... I'm pretty sure it went gold, but it was a double disc)
Hip Hop Is Dead - Released: December 19th 2006 - Debut @ #1 - Gold
Untitled - Released: July 15th 2008... Debut @ #1 - Gold

IMO thats a great deal of mainstream success... He doesn't have the many multi platinum albums that Jay has, but IMO the million or so people that bought the NaS albums came away with much more then those who bought the Jay albums... NaS music just overral serves a bigger purpose than Jay... It speaks volumes that of ALL the records NaS has made, from the commercial @*+% that made you scratch your head, to the lyrical genuis we heard on Illmatic... His HIGHEST chartist single of his career...











#12 song in the country...

NaS is the G.O.A.T.

Couldn't have said it better.....Nas is very successful in his own right.

 

[gone in 60 seconds]

Cartoon, I totally agree

 

[harlem on the rise]

Originally Posted by cartune

When yall gonna realize Nas isnt an artist hes a great rapper Jay is a great rapper/artist.

And dont act like Nas didnt try to go mainstream I ruled the world, track with R. Kelly, Oochie Wally

, Hero,

Jay knows how to make intelluctual political raps and he also knows how to make Big Pimpin, I Just Wanna love You, Hard Knock

Nas ear for music just became more diverse he tried to make an album with southern producers and he still picked some East Coast sounding beats.

Nas has a comfort zone with beats. You rarely hear him jumpin on abeat thats unorthodox even on Hero a club based track he was sounding uncomfortable losing his breath and sit.

And stop actin like Jay is more public then Nas. jay is almost as sheltered as Nasir Jay is just more interesting. You dont see Jay in everybody videos showing up in interviews every month. nas is just a boring character outside of the booth. While Jay is married to Beyonce and infortrated corporate America

Thats why Jay > Nas

Nas isn't an artist?? Judging by this statement you know NEXT to nothing about hip hop or what it even stands for to say somthing that brainless... Look @what you said...

And dont act like Nas didnt try to go mainstream I ruled the world, track with R. Kelly, Oochie Wally

, Hero,
& then you turn around and say...

Nas has a comfort zone with beats. You rarely hear him jumpin on abeat thats unorthodox even on Hero a club based track he was sounding uncomfortable losing his breath and sit.
Theres no consistancy in those 2 statements... You can't in one breath say NaS went out of his way to make commercial records (and referncewhat 4 songs in his 17 year career...) Then say he doesn't venture out if his "comfort zone"... I mean which side of the fence are you gonna playwith this??

For the record the first joint Nas did with R Kelly was "Street Dreams" remix, this was in what 1996, before BIG or Jay evah did a joint with theR... The record was amazing... 'Oochie Wally" I'm not a fan of it, but it went to #26 in the country, so whatever he was tyring to do with thatrecord... He successfully accomplished it.

How can you say Jay is an artist & Nas isnt?? He (Jay) constantly paints a picture of himself in the MAJORITY of his self obsored records... Not takingANYthing away from Jay because lyrically he's one of the greatest, but IMO hip hop is much more than a platform for you to talk about yourelf ALL thetime... there's alot of other **## goin on in the world... Prolly wouldnt be able to tell that listenin to a Jay album

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise


Nas isn't an artist?? Judging by this statement you know NEXT to nothing about hip hop or what it even stands for to say somthing that brainless... Look @ what you said...

And dont act like Nas didnt try to go mainstream I ruled the world, track with R. Kelly, Oochie Wally

, Hero,

& then you turn around and say...

Nas has a comfort zone with beats. You rarely hear him jumpin on abeat thats unorthodox even on Hero a club based track he was sounding uncomfortable losing his breath and sit.
Theres no consistancy in those 2 statements... You can't in one breath say NaS went out of his way to make commercial records (and refernce what 4 songs in his 17 year career...) Then say he doesn't venture out if his "comfort zone"... I mean which side of the fence are you gonna play with this??

For the record the first joint Nas did with R Kelly was "Street Dreams" remix, this was in what 1996, before BIG or Jay evah did a joint with the R... The record was amazing... 'Oochie Wally" I'm not a fan of it, but it went to #26 in the country, so whatever he was tyring to do with that record... He successfully accomplished it.

How can you say Jay is an artist & Nas isnt?? He (Jay) constantly paints a picture of himself in the MAJORITY of his self obsored records... Not taking ANYthing away from Jay because lyrically he's one of the greatest, but IMO hip hop is much more than a platform for you to talk about yourelf ALL the time... there's alot of other **## goin on in the world... Prolly wouldnt be able to tell that listenin to a Jay album


I think the assumption people are making is that Nas stays underground on purpose because he is some Huey Newton type figure while Jay is theUncle Tom Flava Flav dude lookin for attention. When Nas actually tries to make mainstream records too. So when i say Jay is an artist I mean Jay can make anR&B record hot, hop on an Coldplay track, record an album with Linkin Park and still make a cncept album like American Gangsta without sounding forced.IMHO Nas cant. Again Nas is probably better than Jay lyrically but that is just one expect of hip hop as an overall musician/artist/writer I gotta go with S.

 

[im not you]

I agree with most of what's been said...but I find it comical when people act like Nas is some saint and he's never tried to make crossover recordsbefore.

 

[harlem on the rise]

NaS music serves a bigger purpose than "making an R&B record hot"... Honestly, in the grand scheme of things, who gives a #*$# about some @#$%like that?? Nas not making an album with Linkin Park?? Who gives a @#$% ... Thats the furthest thing from being important... Nas' last album was a conceptrecord if you didnt know... & its better than American Gangster...

The concept Jay ran with on AG is the @#$% NaS & A did in 95... I don't know how getting regurgitated gangster stories in 2007 is considered a goodthing... Everything he did on that album had already been done... OVER decade ago... By a few cats...

& Yes NaS is Huey P like... Jay Z is more like........ Montel Williams

 

[lifelessons]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Although both share(d) pinnacle hip hop popularity, how come Nas never mainstreamed as well as jay?

Because Nas never made a video like Sunshine or sampled Annie in his songs to scoop up the lowest common denominator.

don't talk about "sunshine"......song is appreciated

.....

even on Hero a club based track he was sounding uncomfortable losing his breath and sit.

 

[thousandaire]

Nas didn't want to

 

[m16]

Originally Posted by cartune

IMHO Nas cant.

Who wants to hop on some album with the %$!!$%# from coldplay or a trash rock band or make some soft R&B garbage anyway ? Jay can't make an Untitledalbum. Hell.. Jay can't make any of Nas's albums. Nas can pretty easily hop on a beat and just brag with aweful flow if he wanted too; that ain'thim though. The whole question of Jay vs Nas is proabably the easiest, simplest, and one of the most accurate ways to judge someone as a rap fan. I don'tthink i've ever in my life seen a knowledgeable rap fan take Jay over Nas. When talking to the ignorant, it's almost exactly the opposite. It all comesdown to what has been repeated dozens of times in this thread already... Jay makes sell out trash for white kids.

/thread.

 

[youngjordan23]

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise


How can you say Jay is an artist & Nas isnt?? He (Jay) constantly paints a picture of himself in the MAJORITY of his self obsored records... Not taking ANYthing away from Jay because lyrically he's one of the greatest, but IMO hip hop is much more than a platform for you to talk about yourelf ALL the time... there's alot of other **## goin on in the world... Prolly wouldnt be able to tell that listenin to a Jay album

American gangster his last effort is far from Jay bragging about himself. "Pray" "Falling" "Success" "AmericanDreamin" "Ignant **%" All songs that pretty much anybody who grew up in the hood gan relate 2. This is the thing that gets me About Discussionsabout Jay & Nas... people act as if Jay went the 50 route and completely lost all meaning to his music. Jay May have a lot of club tracks but his albumshave ALWAYS had songs to contrast those kind of tracks

 

[harlem on the rise]

I mean he's 40 years old... Its about time he rapped about somethin of worth... The thing is, NaS was doing that 15 years ago... You're telling me howJay did it... in 07...

My whole thing is, what do you get from AG that you're not getting from the other 50 albums that discussed that EXACT subject matter almost 12-15 yearsago...

If you guys are really gonna use NaS VERY few attempts at commercial success (less that 5% of his catalog), can we bring up Jay Z biting BIG and other greatsall over his records?? Or just him copying PERIOD... When Nasty Nas made "Halftime"(1992), what was Jay rappin like?? Now fast foward to New York in1996... If anything Jay just piggy backed off of the foundation built by Ns like NaS, BIG, & Wu...

 

[ninjahood]

whoever said that Nas and do what jay-z does but hov can't do what nas does is on da right track....

Nas didnt try to go mainstream I ruled the world

i mean look at if i ruled da world....HUGE commercial hit....but listen to da content....its all about political uplifting of da people....jay-z can't dothat or in a better phrase...hasn't done it.

Nas has however done shallow commerical hits and has been as successful as Jay-z doing so (you owe me) but that's not Nas's forte.

 

[Master Zik]

Nas isn't an artist? What the #%%* is wrong with %%%%$%? Nay got it right Nas been transcended that whole commercial phase attempting to appeal to themasses/brag rap/drug kingpin mafioso shhh years ago. When it gets down to his music it has more meaning than most of these dudes who have succeeded in themainstream. Pl Man Jigga been said he dumbed down his rhymes and when I hoped he'd get out of that to do something of worth on KC he releases crap helabels "grown up" rap that is just the same garbage for the most part.

Nas isn't an artist

 

[i live in texas]

'Cause his flow is lacking. If he still kept the flow he had on Illmatic and It Was Written, I'm sure he would be more successful. Now it seems asthough he's bored when he steps into the booth.

"Yo......this is Nas....Queens." I don't want to hear that.


And also, Jay chose to venture out and create different business opportunities.

 

[the gr8]

Jay is more commercial... while Esco puts out better *@%%

Jay has focused more on being commercialy succesful.

 

[we get money]

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise

I mean he's 40 years old... Its about time he rapped about somethin of worth... The thing is, NaS was doing that 15 years ago... You're telling me how Jay did it... in 07...

My whole thing is, what do you get from AG that you're not getting from the other 50 albums that discussed that EXACT subject matter almost 12-15 years ago...

If you guys are really gonna use NaS VERY few attempts at commercial success (less that 5% of his catalog), can we bring up Jay Z biting BIG and other greats all over his records?? Or just him copying PERIOD... When Nasty Nas made "Halftime"(1992), what was Jay rappin like?? Now fast foward to New York in 1996... If anything Jay just piggy backed off of the foundation built by Ns like NaS, BIG, & Wu...

Jay had his "substance" tracks on RD though

D'evils
Regrets
Politics As Usual
Can't Knock the Hustle
etc

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by WE GET MONEY

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise

I mean he's 40 years old... Its about time he rapped about somethin of worth... The thing is, NaS was doing that 15 years ago... You're telling me how Jay did it... in 07...

My whole thing is, what do you get from AG that you're not getting from the other 50 albums that discussed that EXACT subject matter almost 12-15 years ago...

If you guys are really gonna use NaS VERY few attempts at commercial success (less that 5% of his catalog), can we bring up Jay Z biting BIG and other greats all over his records?? Or just him copying PERIOD... When Nasty Nas made "Halftime"(1992), what was Jay rappin like?? Now fast foward to New York in 1996... If anything Jay just piggy backed off of the foundation built by Ns like NaS, BIG, & Wu...

Jay had his "substance" tracks on RD though

D'evils
Regrets
Politics As Usual
Can't Knock the Hustle
etc

those songs are all from one album. RD is the ONLY Jay album that was not ruined by him trying to go commercial.. and even with RD, he dampenedit's impact by including Ain't No $%!*!.


the reason why Jay is more popular than Nas is because Jay sold out for commercial appeal. plain and simple. look how much commercial filler he has on most ofhis albums post-RD. doing club songs and filming videos with naked women is what helped Jay gain the current status he has.

 

[crazy ebw]

Because he's not as hot.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Because he's not as hot.

Ayo. Camel fever?

 

[ninjahood]

its like what Nas says on untitled "eff ya hole *****ez, i don't need ya i'll go gold wit it"

Nas doesn't sacrifice content for album sales.

 

[harlem on the rise]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

its like what Nas says on untitled "eff ya hole *****ez, i don't need ya i'll go gold wit it"

Nas doesn't sacrifice content for album sales.

 

[m16]

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise

Originally Posted by ninjahood

its like what Nas says on untitled "eff ya hole *****ez, i don't need ya i'll go gold wit it"




Nas doesn't sacrifice content for album sales.

 

[gentry187]

Nas did it to himself. He had the potential to be at that level but be chose not to. Not that there's something wrong with that though. That's just nothim. From the gate nas just kept it to hip-hop & the streets.

 

[chozin87]

You can't casually listen to Nas and be content.


Jay's music is simpler to the average listener before they really get to the depth of a lot of his rhymes on the other hand Nas doesn't make songsenough people will just like to listen to.

NAS HAS LOW ENTERTAINMENT VALUE.

RAP IS ENTERTAINMENT.