Although both share(d) pinnacle hip hop popularity, how come Nas never mainstreamed as well as jay?

[send one]

Originally Posted by HipHopDoc09

Originally Posted by SEND ONE

Nas doesn't want to make money

What makes you think he isn't?

Just cause he aint flashing it, doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

Thats just the thing he does flash it, he brags just like every other rapper, he show up to award shows , photo shoots all that superstar %%$! with jewlery and fresh clothes so.....where are yal gettin this from
Obviously not to the extent Jay does or ddues would'nt be talking that Nas is broke +#*%.

I think its funni how must guys in here supporting nas are being pretty civil about their opinions but most the jayz fans are jus sayin nas sucks.
Jay fans get hurt when the truth is spoken especially if Nas is in the picture.

 

[swyftdahoe]

Business acumen. Nas is just pure talent. Jay is talent + branding himself.

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by NJstress03

I think its funni how must guys in here supporting nas are being pretty civil about their opinions but most the jayz fans are jus sayin nas sucks. Not a good look IMO. And about nas not being able to do a "dynasty" album, did u guys forget about the firm?

Firm isnt like the Dynasty. Dynasty is more a Jay Z sayin Im on but heres my potnas. The closes thingNas did to Dynasty is Queensbridge orpresents Bravehearts.

And how you gonna say Nas aint try to go commercial he did a track with lil Jon

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by JsindaA

I absolutely hate when people say "Nas could do it if he wanted" well why the #$%# doesn't he then? The entire point of being signed IS to sell as much as possible...basically what you are saying is...Nas doesn't want to make money....that makes 0 sense. Jay is the most successful rapper ever for a reason...and it dang sure ain't cuz he "dumbed down". He knew how to appeal to EVERYONE period.

Yall #%$#!! are confused. First you assume this is NaS' goal like he just wanted to be signed and that's it. It's already been established Nas isn't that type of artist and the entire point of being an artist is expressing yourself through your music the way you want. Nas could go commercial but he chooses not to. He doesn't need to sell as much as possible, obviously. It's like you strictly seeing rap music as a business and that's it.

You sound stupid. Yall dudes seem to be unable to rationalize and make sense out of things. For yall it's either one extreme or the other. Nas can't make the music he wants/keep his integrity and make money? You talking like he broke. Like cuz Ol Man Jigga is a multimillionaire and Nas isn't anywhere close that he must be broke. You should eventually understand how dumb what your saying is. Nas aint have no problem doing him and going plat consistently until music sales across the board declined. You must have a short memory.

Ol Man Jiggas has said in interviews and his songs that he has dumbed down his music and it was so that he could appeal to everyone. How that line go again? "I wish I could rhyme like Common Sense but rhyming like Common don't make no cents" He has dumbed down his rhymes, consistently.

Also that's another thing why the %$!% do yall even care about who's making how muc money. That #@## don't affect you in anyway. I anything you should be worried about the quality of his music and if it's losing any meaning.

At the end of the day artist integrity >

I never said once in my post that Nas was broke nor that I gave two craps about how much either make. Thanks for bringing up that Jay line sinceit helps my point.


If skills sold
Truth be told
I'd probably be
Lyricly
Talib Kweli
Truthfully
I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
(But i did five Mil)
I ain't been rhymin like Common since


He realizes something seemingly Nas cannot or doesn't want to grasp. Hence me saying he doesn't want to make money. When you make a career out ofsomething, yes you have to love it...but ultimately you want to be the best. In business....making more money than your competitors comes with the territory.That said I'm inclined to believe one of two things or both. 1) He can't do what Jay does or 2) He's content not taking what is"rightfully" his...or not being the best. Jay on the other hand has always realized what was necessary to stay on top...and he lets you know he knowstoo. Alot more people can respect that than someone using music to kick knowledge.

 

[harlem on the rise]

How many cats have had longer, more successful careers than NaS?? Meanwhile maintaining integrity and most importantly transcending the art of MCing...

 

[hiphopdoc09]

Originally Posted by SEND ONE

Originally Posted by HipHopDoc09

Originally Posted by SEND ONE

Nas doesn't want to make money

What makes you think he isn't?

Just cause he aint flashing it, doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

Thats just the thing he does flash it, he brags just like every other rapper, he show up to award shows , photo shoots all that superstar %%$! with jewlery and fresh clothes so.....where are yal gettin this from

Obviously not to the extent Jay does or ddues would'nt be talking that Nas is broke +#*%.

I think its funni how must guys in here supporting nas are being pretty civil about their opinions but most the jayz fans are jus sayin nas sucks.
Jay fans get hurt when the truth is spoken especially if Nas is in the picture.



Whoever said nas was broke? Listen to his music he'll tell u that. It aint got nothin to do with jay-z fans catchin feelings. Its the nas fans who thinkthat he is so sophisticated, humble, loyal, true to self, crazy deep and intelligent and no none understands because hes above everybodys head , refuses tosell out and thats why he cant be a multimillionaire like jay-z. Exactly thats it thats why nas cant have a good clothing line, own a chain of sports bars oreven put his clique on. If nas made MORE club songs with actual good beats he could be worth 600,000,000 dollars too.......right. Yal know it aint got nothinto do with wat yal talkin bout. Also No living rapper has sold more records or appealed to more white people than eminem and hes not even at the same level ofsuccesss as jay. not that im on jays *!!! but u nas fans know what yal sayin is true as far as jay bein more flashy than nas but that has lttle to do with thedifference of "success"

 

[Jordan8]

Both Nas and Jay are introverted we analyzed them dudes in my psych class. I dont remember Jay being that flashy but HipHopdoc I agree with you dudes hold Nasup like he's bigger than he is.

Nas is one of the greatest but that boy inconsistent I only feel 3 of his albums the rest were intolerable. Nas makes great verses but he doesnt make greatsongs

 

[m16]

Originally Posted by cartune

Both Nas and Jay are introverted we analyzed them dudes in my psych class. I dont remember Jay being that flashy but HipHopdoc I agree with you dudes hold Nas up like he's bigger than he is.

Nas is one of the greatest but that boy inconsistent I only feel 3 of his albums the rest were intolerable. Nas makes great verses but he doesnt make great songs

Jay batting about a .100 so stop.

Nas been consistent. Only slipped up with Nastradamus and HHID; but Untitled was

and so were the rest of his albums. He has arguablly the greatest albumof all-time under his belt, Stilmatic (certified classic) IWW (certified classic) God's Son (excellent) etc

Dude has PLENTY of songs that are candidates for GOAT song of all-time and can fill up a top 5 or 10 easily. Jay has none. Just stop.

 

[Master Zik]

He realizes something seemingly Nas cannot or doesn't want to grasp. Hence me saying he doesn't want to make money. When you make a career out of something, yes you have to love it...but ultimately you want to be the best.

Here's the response:

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise

How many cats have had longer, more successful careers than NaS?? Meanwhile maintaining integrity and most importantly transcending the art of MCing...

This isn't a thread about who has the better career which you might be confused about. Nas obviously has shown he is the best without havingto do what Ol Man Jigga did. That camel could appeal to albinos from Africa that doesn't mean he's the best.

Some of yall stans is making this thread about something it's not. Talking about what one Mc can't do oppose to what he won't.

 

[deuce king]

Simply put, everybody can't be Batman, somebody has to be Robin, and that's exactly what Nas is Robin. With Jay being Batman.

Meanwhile maintaining integrity and most importantly transcending the art of MCing...
LOL.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Simply put, everybody can't be Batman, somebody has to be Robin, and that's exactly what Nas is Robin. With Jay being Batman.

I swear the need to group these two together has to stop. The permeation of this kind of thinking is turning gullible hip hop fans in to ritards,yes ritards.

 

[m16]

Batman and Robin ?

Stop.

Nas is hip hop fans rapper.

Jay is the

entertainer.

 

[sneakerlips]

Originally Posted by M16

Those songs could appeal beyond traditional hip hop listeners (without going solely for ignorant white kids like Jay). That's what makes it commercial. They got constant Radio and TV play and everyone was rocking with them from children to older heads and people who normally (and didn't before) listen to Nas or rap.

Dude you need to stop putting "white kids" into this situation because it has nothing to do with this discussion at all. I'm a caucasian teen butI'm not ignorant and consider myself a die hard hip hop fan. Plus aren't you like arabic or something anyways? P.S. Jay-Z > Vinnie Paz. (I don'tcare what you say)

 

[harlem on the rise]

"What Goes Around" > Jay Z...

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

He realizes something seemingly Nas cannot or doesn't want to grasp. Hence me saying he doesn't want to make money. When you make a career out of something, yes you have to love it...but ultimately you want to be the best.

Here's the response:

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise

How many cats have had longer, more successful careers than NaS?? Meanwhile maintaining integrity and most importantly transcending the art of MCing...

This isn't a thread about who has the better career which you might be confused about. Nas obviously has shown he is the best without having to do what Ol Man Jigga did. That camel could appeal to albinos from Africa that doesn't mean he's the best.

Some of yall stans is making this thread about something it's not. Talking about what one Mc can't do oppose to what he won't.


What are you talking about...we're talking about why Nas never mainstreamed to Jay's level. The only reason I even said that is because you foolish Nasstans keep saying "well he doesn't want to". That's bs...he hasn't because apparently he can't. Pretty much every attempt he fellflat on his face. Nas hasn't obviously shown anything because if he did...we wouldn't be having this conversation. The ONLY thing Nas is better atthan Jay is lyrics...and even that is not that big of a gap. But back on topic....the only reason Nas isn't on the level Jay is, is because he lacks thatability. Along with pretty much every other rapper ever. Only Big,Ye, Em, and Wayne have the same ability to appeal to mainstream like Jay.

 

[m16]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Pretty much every attempt he fell flat on his face

The ONLY thing Nas is better at than Jay is lyrics...and even that is not that big of a gap.

and hate to break it to you, mass mainstream appeal hasn't been important since '97. It only just means your music is trash. Look at the examples youput up.

 

[deuce king]

I swear the need to group these two together has to stop
Let me clarify that a bit, I wasn't trying to lump the two together with the Batman and Robin statement. I was just trying to draw thecomparison that everybody or some people can't be the main attraction or the "big dog" so to speak Some people for whateva reason justaren't build for the big stage. Both Nas and Jay are great, hopefully nobody is trying to take that away from either person. However, a person that ismore versatile traditionally will do better than someone who is not as versatile. Which is way Jay is more successful than Nas.

 

[Jordan8]

Man yall dudes are blinded or deafen by hate

 

[Master Zik]

The only reason I even said that is because you foolish Nas stans keep saying "well he doesn't want to". That's bs...he hasn't because apparently he can't.
How you gonna say that in the beginning and say that again now but say this in the middle:

He realizes something seemingly Nas cannot or doesn't want to grasp.
So which is it? One min you disagree, then agree, now disagree again. My stance is it's just not Nas' style and its simply not in him togo commercial and market himself the way Ol Man Jigga has(not since IWW) i.e. he doesn't want to. Money isirrelevant and I didn't bring up money you did.

Oh and thanks for clearing that up Deuce King but reading through this thread it seems ppl are trying to tear both down in their own ways. Both of them lack ineach other's areas of expertise but (and this is to everyone) doesn't mean they can't do it.

 

[emmanuel goldstein]

first lets get this out of the way ... nas > jay at every aspect in rap except poppy appeal ...

next ill say this ... nas didnt go mainstream like jay because most people dont wanna hear/buy good rap ... they just want club songs and cute lines ...

jay did his mainstream thing because he turned into a pop star ... nas stayed the same ...

 

[m16]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Goldstein

first lets get this out of the way ... nas > jay at every aspect in rap except poppy appeal ...

next ill say this ... nas didnt go mainstream like jay because most people dont wanna hear/buy good rap ... they just want club songs and cute lines ...

jay did his mainstream thing because he turned into a pop star ... nas stayed the same ...

Exactly.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

The only reason I even said that is because you foolish Nas stans keep saying "well he doesn't want to". That's bs...he hasn't because apparently he can't.

How you gonna say that in the beginning and say that again now but say this in the middle:

He realizes something seemingly Nas cannot or doesn't want to grasp.
So which is it? One min you disagree, then agree, now disagree again. My stance is it's just not Nas' style and its simply not in him to go commercial and market himself the way Ol Man Jigga has(not since IWW) i.e. he doesn't want to. Money is irrelevant and I didn't bring up money you did.

Oh and thanks for clearing that up Deuce King but reading through this thread it seems ppl are trying to tear both down in their own ways. Both of them lack in each other's areas of expertise but (and this is to everyone) doesn't mean they can't do it.


I said the same exact thing twice. Just worded it different. Seemingly=Apparently. I think it's bs because it's apparent that it is not something hecan do....at least he hasn't shown that ability up to this point...especially not to the magnitude that Jay has. Money is just a tie along to that. All Isaid about money is...Nas must not want to make money, because he shows that it's not that important. No? I'm not saying your stance is wrong...justthat it doesn't make sense for him to do that.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by M16

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Pretty much every attempt he fell flat on his face

The ONLY thing Nas is better at than Jay is lyrics...and even that is not that big of a gap.

and hate to break it to you, mass mainstream appeal hasn't been important since '97. It only just means your music is trash. Look at the examples you put up.

Big, Ye, and Em are trash?

And PLEASE tell me what nas does better than jay outside of lyrics

 

[three6mafia]

jay z is more bubble gum rap.

 

[m16]

BIG isn't trash, but he isn't in the time period we are discussing. He was part of the last wave before the decline.

Ye is trash. He might be a good pop artist or producer, but rapper ?

Em isn't trash, but he had to resort to making trash to appeal. (just like Jay, except Jay took it much further) Let's be serious, you heard hissingles for yourself.

Nas is lightyears ahead lyrically, he got better flow, better delivery, makes better albums... every single aspect except teeny bopper appeal.

Country Grammar went what ? 9x Platinum ? Something like that would have not gone gold, probably not have dropped in earlier times. More recently... C3 brokesales records and got a Grammy.... is it honestly a good album ? Better than Untitled ?

Sales mean nothing nowadays. The type of people actually droppingmoney on albums don't know or care about quality, thus measuring by what they like is setting yourself up to take L's.