any vegetarians on NT?

[dl2352]

Originally Posted by quik1987

^ I think the point is to make a step in a positive direction rather than to eliminate all negative factors. Life can't be perfect.

Meth, do you try to eat organically as well? I'm all for living healthy, but as a university student without an abundance of time, I'd find it difficult to eat in such a way. Especially if you eat organically as well, your options would be drastically limited.

I'm in the same boat. As a college student cooking for one, I don't really have the financial means or time to prepare different mealswith intricate recipes and a variety of ingredients. I went completely vegetarian for a month, just to see if I could do it, and I really felt a lot healthierafterward. I don't think I could ever completely cut out meats, poultry, fish, eggs, and dairy from my diet though. One of my favorite things to do is tofind new restaurants with friends and try new foods. A lot of my favorite foods have those things and I'd severely limit my options. What I think I'llprobably do is try to eat organic products if possible and to have a vegetarian diet with room for some cheating on the weekends

 

[lrrr]

[h1]It's the Beef[/h1]
by Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD

With the exception of butter, no other food has been subjected to such intense demonization in recent years as red meat, particularly beef. The juicyhamburger, that delicious marbled steak and the Sunday roast have been accused of terrible crimes. Beef causes heart disease, say the Diet Dictocrats. Beefcauses cancer, particularly colon cancer, beef causes osteoporosis, beef causes autoimmune diseases like asthma, beef harbors E. coli leading to food-borneillness, beef causes Creutzfeldt Jakob disease.

Recently a vegetarian group called People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals placed billboard ads warning men not to eat beef because it causes impotence!Red meat is an acid-forming food, say the vegetarians, which putrefies in the gut because humans can't digest meat. Beef production destroys theenvironment, according to the zealots, and takes away land that could be dedicated to grain for starving millions. Let's examine these accusations one at atime.
[h2]Does beef cause heart disease?[/h2]
First is the notion that beef causes heart disease. This actually dates back to the 1950's when the lipid hypothesis was &taking hold on theAmerican consciousness. At that time, scientists were grappling with a new threat to public health-a steep rise in heart disease, especially myocardialinfarction (MI)-a massive blood clot leading to obstruction of a coronary artery and consequent death to the heart muscle. MI was almost nonexistent in 1910and caused no more than three thousand deaths per year in 1930. By 1960, there were at least 500,000 MI deaths per year in the US.

Many scientists believed that the culprit was cholesterol and saturated fats found in animal foods like butter, eggs and beef. They reasoned that saturatedfat and cholesterol raised the level of cholesterol in the blood which in turned caused the deposition of cholesterol as plaques in the arteries, leading toobstructions and heart disease. This, in a nutshell, is the lipid hypothesis.[sup]1[/sup]

This theory was tested in 1957 when Dr. Norman Jolliffe, Director of the Nutrition Bureau of the New York Health Department, initiated the Anti-CoronaryClub. With great media fanfare, a group of businessmen, ranging in age from 40 to 59 years, were placed on the so-called Prudent Diet. Prudent Dieters usedcorn oil and margarine instead of butter, cold breakfast cereals instead of eggs and chicken and fish instead of beef. Anti-Coronary Club members were to becompared with a "matched" group of the same age who ate eggs for breakfast and had meat three times a day. Jolliffe, an overweight diabetic confinedto a wheel chair, was confident that the Prudent Diet would save lives, including his own.

The results of Dr. Jolliffe's Anti-Coronary Club experiment were published in 1966 in the Journal of the American MedicalAssociation.[sup]2[/sup]Those on the Prudent Diet of corn oil, margarine, fish, chicken and cold cereal had an average serum cholesterol of220, compared to 250 in the meat-and-potatoes control group. However, the study authors were obliged to note that there were eight deaths from heart diseaseamong Dr. Jolliffe's Prudent Diet group, and none among those who ate meat three times a day. Dr. Jolliffe was dead by this time. He succumbed in1961 from a vascular thrombosis, although the obituaries listed the cause of death as complications from diabetes.

The truth is that in spite of all the propaganda you have heard, the lipid hypothesis has never been proved. In fact, inadequate protein intake leads toloss of myocardial muscle and may, therefore, contribute to coronary heart disease.[sup]3[/sup]

There are many societies where the populace consumes high levels of animal food and saturated fat but remains free of heart disease. Dr.george Mann, who studied the Masai cattle herding peoples in Africa, found no heart disease, even though their diet consisted of meat, blood and richmilk. [sup]4[/sup] Butterfat consumption among Masai warriors, who consider vegetable foods as fodder for cattle, can reach one and one half pounds perday. Yet these people do not suffer from heart disease. Mann called the lipid hypothesis "the greatest scam in the history ofmedicine." It is a scam that has been used to convince millions of healthy people that they are sick and must take expensive drugs with serious sideeffects, a falsehood that has persuaded Americans to adopt a bland, tasteless diet simply because their cholesterol has been defined as being too high.

It is true that beef consumption in the United States has gone up during the last eighty years, the period of huge increases in heart disease. Today weconsume 79 pounds of beef per person per year versus 54 in 1909, a 46% increase-but poultry consumption has increased a whopping 280%, from 18 pounds perperson per year to 70. Consumption of vegetable oils, including those that have been hydrogenated, has increased 437%, from 11 pounds per person per year to59; while consumption of butter, lard and tallow has plummeted from 30 pounds per person per year to just under 10. Whole milk consumption has declined byalmost 50%, while lowfat milk consumption has doubled. Consumption of eggs, fresh fruits (excluding citrus), fresh vegetables, fresh potatoes and whole grainproducts has declined; but consumption of sugar and other sweeteners has almost doubled. Why, then, do today's politically correct dietary gurus continueto blame beef consumption for our ills? Is it because it is the one wholesome food that has shown an increase over the past ninety years?

http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtbeef.html

hmm

 

[destination kicks]

I've been a "pesco-vegan" for a little over 2 years now. I thought it was going to be extremely hard but it's really not and I haven'thad a single slip up. I just found it hard to live with myself knowing how poorly they're treated, plus cutting out meats *pause* is extremely healthy.

and really, the lifestyle is not hard to maintain


Exactly.

For about a year now, and I'm a big dude (6'2", 225). Makes me feel MUCH better, more energy, less acne for me, sleep better, workout longer, all very good things. I couldn't do vegan (ice cream!? Cheese!?) but mostly just do vegetables, some tofu or tempeh, lots of fruits, salads, hummus, Mediterranean, oatmeal, big fresh flavors (citrus, peppers, ect) is the way to make it easy.


When I started I was in the same boat. I was about 6'1 235, and now two years later I've grown an inch and cut out 26 pounds. I feel great and althoughI still have some work to do, I'm extremely happy about my health. Not sure if it's a coincidence but in the 2 years since I've become a vegetarianmy allergies have basically disappeared and I've yet to have more than the common cold, while in the past I used to get rather sick a couple of times ayear.

Method Man and fellow NTers, as guys, you don't feel odd or funny telling your friends you are a vegetarians? I know there's this notion that only females do it.


I can't tell you how many times this conversation has went down:
Friend: You want this *insert leftover meat product from their meal*
Me: Nah, I'm a vegetarian.
Friend: You gay?
Me: Nah, definitely not. Just a personal decision.

You just can't let it phase you and you got to go ahead with your day.

 

[tmukg21]

i was just looking for this thread to reread

 

[Methodical Management]

Originally Posted by Lrrr

All of these are made from animals.
First few are biggies:
- Tires : You cannot drive a vehicle, ride a bus or a bike. No transportation except walking (horses are forbidden) . And no walking on asphalt or concrete, they contain animal products. Anti- freeze, brake fluid and oil also contains animal products.
- Plastic: Several fatty acids from animals are key ingredients in plastic. No combs to untangle your greasy hair. Your B-12 and other supplements come in plastic bottles ( read more to find out about those vitamins and supplements) , so you can' t take them. No using those little plastic produce bags at the grocery store for your veg. \
- Tooth paste and mouth wash: Cows provide a substance called glycerin that helps to fight dental plaque. The tooth brush is also mostly plastic.\\
- Medicine: 350 modern pharm aceuticals are made from animal products. Anything in a gel cap contains gelatin which is made from animals. Cortisone and insulin (the synthetic stuff is very expensive and hard to get) too.
Also, Latex surgical gloves contain tallow, x- ray film contains gelatin.
- Perfume/ cologne/ deodorant: made from whales, deer or beaver. No synthetic has ever been made to match the natural animal $*+%. So you' ll have to keep smelling like a cheap *+$$# with BO.
-Wax paper , cellophane , cardboard and paper containers your processed foods come in is all made from animals.
- White sugar : purified bone ash is used to refine sugar .
- Your house or apartment: paint , wallpaper, linoleum, carpet, plywood, drywall, insulation all made from animal products, ceramic tile.
- Furniture: foam rubber contains egg whites, wood glue contains animal products.
- Laundry detergents , fabric softeners, disinfectants, house hold cleaners and polishes. You have to live a filthy life in filthy rags.
- Sunscreens , soaps , shampoos, cosmetics: all contain animal products. Lotion and makeup contain lanol in which comes from sheep' s wool.
- Vitamins and mineral supplements: which ever vegan requires are also derived from animals.
- Fire extinguishers: use animals products.
- Electrical devices: Electrical circuitry is made from animal products. Your printers ink and/ or toner is also made from animal products.

First of all, I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but, suffice it to say, you need to check your sources.

If you pulled that list off the web, I'd like to know where. It's pretty obnoxiously phrased - "you'll have to keep smelling like a cheap*+$$# with BO." etc., and that's reflective of the level of consciousness that went into it, to be sure.

I'm not going through the entire list, but just for starters:

1. Rubber does not necessarily incorporate the use of animal products. Just as a quick example, all Brooks running shoes are entirely free of animal productsand conform to strict vegan standards - and this INCLUDES the outsole and adhesives. Latex can also be made without animal products and consumers can alreadychoose from several brands of vegan friendly condoms.

2. I'm not sure if the plastics argument is based on the use of petroleum, which would be completely asinine, or glycerin, but in either case plant-basedplastics do exist and are becoming more widespread. Plant-based plastic cups, takeout forks, etc. are becoming increasingly popular among ethically andenvironmentally conscious restaurants, for example. What's more, glycerin can be plant-based as well.

3. Case in point: a wide variety of soaps on the market have been made with vegetable glycerin. Personal care products in virtually every category - soaps,body washes, shampoos, conditioners, toothpaste, and, yes, fragrances have all been made without the use of animal products.

4. Vegan vitamin and mineral supplements are widely available. Athletes can even use vegan creatine as part of their training regimen.

5. Laundry and dish detergents manufactured by companies like seventh generation are entirely free of animal products.

We can keep going, but suffice it to say much of that list was narrow-minded, short-sighted, poorly researched, and just plain insulting.

As I explained in another thread:

You can take just about anything to its illogical extreme. I've yet to meet the person who values life to the point where they won't wash their hands for fear of killing bacteria. If you pay your taxes, you're subsidizing factory farms, war, etc. That doesn't mean we should indulge in nihilism and proceed as though valuing life is pointless. The point is to be conscious of those choices and make them for yourself rather than simply going with the flow.

I don't see vegetarianism as an attempt at "absolute purity," though of course there are some "holier than thou" individuals who might portray it as such. It's a constructive lifestyle choice undertaken for a wide variety of reasons.

We'll never have "perfect" bodies, but we still believe in exercise, nutrition, and health care. We'll never have "perfect" minds, but we still believe in education. We'll never have "perfect" relationships, but we still work tirelessly and sacrifice to do the best we can for those we care about.

There's a lot we can do, realistically, to make a difference. Every lifestyle choice we make reflects our values.
There's always room to improve, that's the nature of our existence, but there's meaning and nobility in the struggle, in constantly reevaluating, refining, and reforming our actions, beliefs, and behavior to bring us in closer alignment with what we feel is right.

Where we cannot achieve perfection, we can always achieve progress.
Many of the animal products currently used in the production of some plastics, rubbers, steel, etc. are completely inessential to production andcould easily be replaced IF the cost of animal products exceeded that of plant-based alternatives. Why are animal products so cheap? Quite simply, they arebyproducts of factory farming - specifically, the production of meat, dairy, pork, and poultry products. Fundamentally, the issue revolves around theproperty-status of animals. Were that to change, obviously animal products would be prohibited entirely. That notwithstanding, however, if the world were toshift to plant-based diets and minimize factory farming - if only for environmental reasons, like methane emissions and the INCREDIBLE waste of freshwaterresulting from livestock production (ONE POUND of beef requires a whopping 5,200 gallons of water to produce. You want to talk personal hygiene - choosebetween showering for a month and eating a couple servings of steak.) the reduced production and demand for meat etc. would force companies from using whatare, really, the byproducts of meat production in the manufacturing of their own products. Companies use animal cartilage, bones, etc. because the prices areartificially low. They don't have to kill an animal just to use its fat, for example. When an animal is killed for meat, the skin, the organs, the fat,the hooves, the bones, thus and so would be waste matter were uses not CREATED for them. Factory farms don't feed cattle the viscera of cows and otheranimals, including euthanized pets, because it's healthy for them - they do so because it's cheap. A patent already exists for an enzyme that breaksdown the keratin in feathers so farmers can literally feed chickens the feathers harvested from their recently killed cohorts. The use of animal byproducts isso widespread BECAUSE of the scale of factory farming and the unhealthy and environmentally unsustainable demand for meat.

If you're a vegetarian, you're helping reduce demand at one end. If you're a vegan, you're reducing demand at both ends and encouraging thedemand for animal-free alternatives.

Nothing could possibly be easier than to adopt a nihilistic "all or nothing" stance, suggesting that it's pointless to try and live your valuesif it's impossible to do so PERFECTLY. It's an ethical and cognitive shortcut. People who feel this way get to do whatever selfish acts they wish,guilt-free, because they renounce accountability as easily as though flinging their hands up, like a pouting child, and declaring "it'sIMPOSSIBLE."


The Weston A. Price foundation, which you pulled that "research" piece from, is a total joke, by the way. It's a lobbying front veiled as anindependent think tank. We have a LOT of them in Washington of every stripe and manner you can imagine. Getting your dietary information from there is likelooking to the Heartland Institute for objective research on climate change. So much of what you pasted there is just beyond fringe. Go ahead and do a littledigging on your own using any academic search engine to look through medical journals etc. and see how much support you can find for those claims. You canfind a range of studies to counter every single point there.

Price's work is from the 1930's. Let me ask you something: what do you think the life expectancy of the Masai was when that study was produced? Mid-40's, I believe.

If you read Atherosclerosis in the Masai by Mann et al., or even just skim the abstract, you'll find that"Measurements of the aorta showed extensive atherosclerosis with lipid infiltration and fibrous changes but very few complicated lesions. The coronaryarteries showed intimal thickening by atherosclerosis which equaled that of old U.S. men. The Masai vessels enlarge with age to more than compensate for thisdisease. It is speculated that the Masai are protected from their atherosclerosis by physical fitness which causes their coronary vessels to becapacious."

Hmm indeed.

 

[marikomorose]

It’s hard to say that I’m vegetarian because I don’t each much vegetables on consistent bases, but as of yesterday I haven’t eaten meat in 3yrs. It wasn’t hard for me to quit nor do I miss it. The fake chicken, burger, etc from Aldi and Trader Joe’s are pretty good. I do prefer the stuff from Aldi, but Trader Joe’s has the larger selection.

The inspiration to stop eating meat was influenced by Raizen from Yu Yu Hakusho. Honestly, even when I do achieve my goal I probably won’t start eating meat again unless something apocalyptic happens and I need all the resources I can get. I really just don’t have any desire to it again. Besides the Beyond Whopper is one of the greatest foods invented.

Bend_The_Knee would u be interested in giving up meat if u haven’t already?

 

[jking0821]

My fiance is a vegetarian for ethical reasons. I struggle with joining her. I have read that if everyone goes vegetarian or vegan it would obviously lead to more solo-farming which can kill tons of animals in the process.

Right now I go vegetarian about 1-2 months a year just to support her. I also don't eat pork because pigs for me are too smart to murder. But that is where my personal moral compass comes in. Cows are smart and caring as well so i understand why people do the vegan/vegetarian thing for the moral reasons. But scallops and muscles....I don't really care about like that. Same with insects that i will kill in my house (spiders, crickets etc). So its always a slippery slope to me when its like well which animals are ok to kill? Squirrels, bugs all get killed in farming when it comes to giant farms (talking soy farms and plant farms not animal). So do i say i will now be 100% self sustainable? Grow all my own food and clothes?

Yes again a cop out and i understand there is a happy middle ground in there where we don't slaughter animals on a wide spread scale like we are now. But just some food for thought/rambling on my thoughts