Atheist, justify the Placebo Effect right quick..

[38816]

its not faith. its your brain being tricked into releasing or stopping hormones based upon a reaction to a drug that was introduced beforehand.....

its like if i slapped the @%+* out of you....then cocked my arm back to slap you again, but dont, and you jump.....

what's that got to do with faith? you had faith that'd id tag you again?

womp.

 

[38816]

its not faith. its your brain being tricked into releasing or stopping hormones based upon a reaction to a drug that was introduced beforehand.....

its like if i slapped the @%+* out of you....then cocked my arm back to slap you again, but dont, and you jump.....

what's that got to do with faith? you had faith that'd id tag you again?

womp.

 

[38816]

ftr, you do know that religion was onset as a psuedo science, right?

"hey, whats that hot orb in the sky that rises and sets?"

100 b.c.= oh, that's apollo's chariot...

2011 a.d.= oh, that's the sun....


we had very uneducated and basically MADE UP explainations......through civilization, we humans have developed a better understanding of nature....

early religions tried to explain the world to humanity...and failed miserably....

oh, a huge flood? we can't really explain it.....god did it.

oh, a huge disease? we can't really explain it....god did it.

hey, george bush is a jerk for underfunding levys and not responding fast enough to katrina....wait, god did that too...

you see? god has been scapegoated throughout civilization as an explaination for things we can't comprehend...

well, rilla, the placebo effect and other very simple sciences, we can comprehend...and we have prefectly resonable explainations for....

like i said, the brain is tricked into the same behavior the drug induced, even when that drug isn't present...

what does that have to do with god, faith or anything, really?

 

[38816]

ftr, you do know that religion was onset as a psuedo science, right?

"hey, whats that hot orb in the sky that rises and sets?"

100 b.c.= oh, that's apollo's chariot...

2011 a.d.= oh, that's the sun....


we had very uneducated and basically MADE UP explainations......through civilization, we humans have developed a better understanding of nature....

early religions tried to explain the world to humanity...and failed miserably....

oh, a huge flood? we can't really explain it.....god did it.

oh, a huge disease? we can't really explain it....god did it.

hey, george bush is a jerk for underfunding levys and not responding fast enough to katrina....wait, god did that too...

you see? god has been scapegoated throughout civilization as an explaination for things we can't comprehend...

well, rilla, the placebo effect and other very simple sciences, we can comprehend...and we have prefectly resonable explainations for....

like i said, the brain is tricked into the same behavior the drug induced, even when that drug isn't present...

what does that have to do with god, faith or anything, really?

 

[mangudai954]

Eloquently put.

 

[mangudai954]

Eloquently put.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Nako XL

why don't you ask a doctor to explain the placebo effect?

or a biologist?

why does it have to be an atheist?

There is a scientific explanation for the placebo effect....someone's gonna have to confirm this.


Many psychopathological states manifest with somatic symptoms (Eg. depression, stress). It is well documented that psychological states that induce stress lead to chronic illnesses eg. heart disease, atherosclerosis, hbp due to chronic release of the cortisol (Stress hormone).


Elevated levels of cortisol also has adverse effects on the healing process. The belief that something works, decreases stress and anxiety and aids in the healing process..

  

The other explanation is when u believe something works for pain (it doesn't work for medicine for more serious illnesses

) but your mind/mental state governs how much you percieve pain. See what i said earlier about depression.

Fair enough. But given enough time and research, all "miracles" will have a valid scientific explanation...Gravity... the water cycle... reproduction... you name it. Now I'ma just wait for some one like myself or ItsGettinHot to see the point I just made...it's all between the lines.

This is how miracles work in nutshell.


A church collapses killing the entire 1000 person congregation, and one person lives.......it's a miracle

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Nako XL

why don't you ask a doctor to explain the placebo effect?

or a biologist?

why does it have to be an atheist?

There is a scientific explanation for the placebo effect....someone's gonna have to confirm this.


Many psychopathological states manifest with somatic symptoms (Eg. depression, stress). It is well documented that psychological states that induce stress lead to chronic illnesses eg. heart disease, atherosclerosis, hbp due to chronic release of the cortisol (Stress hormone).


Elevated levels of cortisol also has adverse effects on the healing process. The belief that something works, decreases stress and anxiety and aids in the healing process..

  

The other explanation is when u believe something works for pain (it doesn't work for medicine for more serious illnesses

) but your mind/mental state governs how much you percieve pain. See what i said earlier about depression.

Fair enough. But given enough time and research, all "miracles" will have a valid scientific explanation...Gravity... the water cycle... reproduction... you name it. Now I'ma just wait for some one like myself or ItsGettinHot to see the point I just made...it's all between the lines.

This is how miracles work in nutshell.


A church collapses killing the entire 1000 person congregation, and one person lives.......it's a miracle

 

[grypr33]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

its not faith. its your brain being tricked into releasing or stopping hormones based upon a reaction to a drug that was introduced beforehand.....

its like if i slapped the @%+* out of you....then cocked my arm back to slap you again, but dont, and you jump.....

what's that got to do with faith? you had faith that'd id tag you again?

womp.

 

[grypr33]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

its not faith. its your brain being tricked into releasing or stopping hormones based upon a reaction to a drug that was introduced beforehand.....

its like if i slapped the @%+* out of you....then cocked my arm back to slap you again, but dont, and you jump.....

what's that got to do with faith? you had faith that'd id tag you again?

womp.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

think of it like this.....

you take pill a to stop antihisimine...

the pill breaks down in your body and causes your brain to block histimine receptors, correct?

so the drug has caused your body to change chemically...

well,

if your brain THINKS its getting the same drug, it can release those SAME EXACT HORMONES without actually digesting the drug that FORCES the brain to release the hormones...

does this make sense?

any drug you take affects the way your body operates......therefore, your body COULD operate that way INDEPENDENT of the drug.....if it thinks it has ingested the drug....

just like if youre sleeping and someone covers your nose and mouth...

you wake up thinking youre drowning.....which you arent, you arent in water at all, but to the mind, the two situations are identical....a lack of oxygen...

1 I don't have a religion.
2. This thread was about FAITH... you just rationalized a scientific explanation for faith. That's what I was waiting on.

. Belief is powerful.

Watch the "Faith Cake" video is clears a lotta $$#$ up. Religious folks need to stop projecting their way of thinking onto science it's insulting. Science has nothing to do with faith. Science is based on skepticism.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

think of it like this.....

you take pill a to stop antihisimine...

the pill breaks down in your body and causes your brain to block histimine receptors, correct?

so the drug has caused your body to change chemically...

well,

if your brain THINKS its getting the same drug, it can release those SAME EXACT HORMONES without actually digesting the drug that FORCES the brain to release the hormones...

does this make sense?

any drug you take affects the way your body operates......therefore, your body COULD operate that way INDEPENDENT of the drug.....if it thinks it has ingested the drug....

just like if youre sleeping and someone covers your nose and mouth...

you wake up thinking youre drowning.....which you arent, you arent in water at all, but to the mind, the two situations are identical....a lack of oxygen...

1 I don't have a religion.
2. This thread was about FAITH... you just rationalized a scientific explanation for faith. That's what I was waiting on.

. Belief is powerful.

Watch the "Faith Cake" video is clears a lotta $$#$ up. Religious folks need to stop projecting their way of thinking onto science it's insulting. Science has nothing to do with faith. Science is based on skepticism.

 

[murda he]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

think of it like this.....

you take pill a to stop antihisimine...

the pill breaks down in your body and causes your brain to block histimine receptors, correct?

so the drug has caused your body to change chemically...

well,

if your brain THINKS its getting the same drug, it can release those SAME EXACT HORMONES without actually digesting the drug that FORCES the brain to release the hormones...

does this make sense?

any drug you take affects the way your body operates......therefore, your body COULD operate that way INDEPENDENT of the drug.....if it thinks it has ingested the drug....

just like if youre sleeping and someone covers your nose and mouth...

you wake up thinking youre drowning.....which you arent, you arent in water at all, but to the mind, the two situations are identical....a lack of oxygen...

1 I don't have a religion.
2. This thread was about FAITH... you just rationalized a scientific explanation for faith. That's what I was waiting on.

. Belief is powerful.

Watch the "Faith Cake" video is clears a lotta $$#$ up. Religious folks need to stop projecting their way of thinking onto science it's insulting. Science has nothing to do with faith. Science is based on skepticism.

MAN is hard wired to live by faith. It's what separates us from animals really. All they live by is direct teachings and experience, right? But we are able to accept others experiences as out own; able to trust and have FAITH that they are well learned and accurate. I like science more than I like "hope", but I'm just saying we live by hope more than we realize. We "hope" that the directions on the pill bottle are accurate way before we have proof in it. Yeah, we may have heard that vicoden works for back pain, but we gotta hav FAITH in what we heard since we don't know for ourselves, right?  Every time you go to class and read a book that tells you some one ELSE'S knowledge, you are taking a leap of faith and trusting in it's accuracy. You're an alright guy Nick, but if you call me religious one more time I'ma reverse look-up your cell number and start sending pizzas. Poor little FAITHeist... you deny your very nature so desperately

 

[murda he]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

think of it like this.....

you take pill a to stop antihisimine...

the pill breaks down in your body and causes your brain to block histimine receptors, correct?

so the drug has caused your body to change chemically...

well,

if your brain THINKS its getting the same drug, it can release those SAME EXACT HORMONES without actually digesting the drug that FORCES the brain to release the hormones...

does this make sense?

any drug you take affects the way your body operates......therefore, your body COULD operate that way INDEPENDENT of the drug.....if it thinks it has ingested the drug....

just like if youre sleeping and someone covers your nose and mouth...

you wake up thinking youre drowning.....which you arent, you arent in water at all, but to the mind, the two situations are identical....a lack of oxygen...

1 I don't have a religion.
2. This thread was about FAITH... you just rationalized a scientific explanation for faith. That's what I was waiting on.

. Belief is powerful.

Watch the "Faith Cake" video is clears a lotta $$#$ up. Religious folks need to stop projecting their way of thinking onto science it's insulting. Science has nothing to do with faith. Science is based on skepticism.

MAN is hard wired to live by faith. It's what separates us from animals really. All they live by is direct teachings and experience, right? But we are able to accept others experiences as out own; able to trust and have FAITH that they are well learned and accurate. I like science more than I like "hope", but I'm just saying we live by hope more than we realize. We "hope" that the directions on the pill bottle are accurate way before we have proof in it. Yeah, we may have heard that vicoden works for back pain, but we gotta hav FAITH in what we heard since we don't know for ourselves, right?  Every time you go to class and read a book that tells you some one ELSE'S knowledge, you are taking a leap of faith and trusting in it's accuracy. You're an alright guy Nick, but if you call me religious one more time I'ma reverse look-up your cell number and start sending pizzas. Poor little FAITHeist... you deny your very nature so desperately

 

[murda he]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

ftr, you do know that religion was onset as a psuedo science, right?

"hey, whats that hot orb in the sky that rises and sets?"

100 b.c.= oh, that's apollo's chariot...

2011 a.d.= oh, that's the sun....


we had very uneducated and basically MADE UP explainations......through civilization, we humans have developed a better understanding of nature....

early religions tried to explain the world to humanity...and failed miserably....

oh, a huge flood? we can't really explain it.....god did it.

oh, a huge disease? we can't really explain it....god did it.

hey, george bush is a jerk for underfunding levys and not responding fast enough to katrina....wait, god did that too...

you see? god has been scapegoated throughout civilization as an explaination for things we can't comprehend...

well, rilla, the placebo effect and other very simple sciences, we can comprehend...and we have prefectly resonable explainations for....

like i said, the brain is tricked into the same behavior the drug induced, even when that drug isn't present...

what does that have to do with god, faith or anything, really?

For the most part, I agree... God does catch a lot of the bad rap for $*#!

..


But tell me this.. you believe in the general idea of god, as do I. Who's to say science isn't merely the "how" and god is the "Who/what"? That's how I've always seen it.. God does, well everything. God is why I'm breathing. How I'm breathing can be explained by science. Fair enough. The Big bang is how $*#! started. Cool. What put the primordial atom in place. See? Ontological $*#! like that always brings me back around to God. No, not any specific god, but just God - whatever that really means. God might be a mechanism... or a being... or just a system of rules and regulations that permeate all existence. I don't *!$$*@% know

. All I know is that if you put faith next to science, they fill in some of each others gaps and make the world make more sense; like africa and south america. I'm trying to get my Pangea mentality going man

 

[murda he]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

ftr, you do know that religion was onset as a psuedo science, right?

"hey, whats that hot orb in the sky that rises and sets?"

100 b.c.= oh, that's apollo's chariot...

2011 a.d.= oh, that's the sun....


we had very uneducated and basically MADE UP explainations......through civilization, we humans have developed a better understanding of nature....

early religions tried to explain the world to humanity...and failed miserably....

oh, a huge flood? we can't really explain it.....god did it.

oh, a huge disease? we can't really explain it....god did it.

hey, george bush is a jerk for underfunding levys and not responding fast enough to katrina....wait, god did that too...

you see? god has been scapegoated throughout civilization as an explaination for things we can't comprehend...

well, rilla, the placebo effect and other very simple sciences, we can comprehend...and we have prefectly resonable explainations for....

like i said, the brain is tricked into the same behavior the drug induced, even when that drug isn't present...

what does that have to do with god, faith or anything, really?

For the most part, I agree... God does catch a lot of the bad rap for $*#!

..


But tell me this.. you believe in the general idea of god, as do I. Who's to say science isn't merely the "how" and god is the "Who/what"? That's how I've always seen it.. God does, well everything. God is why I'm breathing. How I'm breathing can be explained by science. Fair enough. The Big bang is how $*#! started. Cool. What put the primordial atom in place. See? Ontological $*#! like that always brings me back around to God. No, not any specific god, but just God - whatever that really means. God might be a mechanism... or a being... or just a system of rules and regulations that permeate all existence. I don't *!$$*@% know

. All I know is that if you put faith next to science, they fill in some of each others gaps and make the world make more sense; like africa and south america. I'm trying to get my Pangea mentality going man

 

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by GRyPR33

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

its not faith. its your brain being tricked into releasing or stopping hormones based upon a reaction to a drug that was introduced beforehand.....

its like if i slapped the @%+* out of you....then cocked my arm back to slap you again, but dont, and you jump.....

what's that got to do with faith? you had faith that'd id tag you again?

womp.

 

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by GRyPR33

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

its not faith. its your brain being tricked into releasing or stopping hormones based upon a reaction to a drug that was introduced beforehand.....

its like if i slapped the @%+* out of you....then cocked my arm back to slap you again, but dont, and you jump.....

what's that got to do with faith? you had faith that'd id tag you again?

womp.

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

ftr, you do know that religion was onset as a psuedo science, right?

"hey, whats that hot orb in the sky that rises and sets?"

100 b.c.= oh, that's apollo's chariot...

2011 a.d.= oh, that's the sun....


we had very uneducated and basically MADE UP explainations......through civilization, we humans have developed a better understanding of nature....

early religions tried to explain the world to humanity...and failed miserably....

oh, a huge flood? we can't really explain it.....god did it.

oh, a huge disease? we can't really explain it....god did it.

hey, george bush is a jerk for underfunding levys and not responding fast enough to katrina....wait, god did that too...

you see? god has been scapegoated throughout civilization as an explaination for things we can't comprehend...

well, rilla, the placebo effect and other very simple sciences, we can comprehend...and we have prefectly resonable explainations for....

like i said, the brain is tricked into the same behavior the drug induced, even when that drug isn't present...

what does that have to do with god, faith or anything, really?

For the most part, I agree... God does catch a lot of the bad rap for $*#!

..


But tell me this.. you believe in the general idea of god, as do I. Who's to say science isn't merely the "how" and god is the "Who/what"? That's how I've always seen it.. God does, well everything. God is why I'm breathing. How I'm breathing can be explained by science. Fair enough. The Big bang is how $*#! started. Cool. What put the primordial atom in place. See? Ontological $*#! like that always brings me back around to God. No, not any specific god, but just God - whatever that really means. God might be a mechanism... or a being... or just a system of rules and regulations that permeate all existence. I don't *!$$*@% know

. All I know is that if you put faith next to science, they fill in some of each others gaps and make the world make more sense; like africa and south america. I'm trying to get my Pangea mentality going man

well, regarding the big bang, you right....they can explain up to the big bang and that's it...

this also ties into god as a creator force, with no other intervention, i.e. free will

also, the leading theory as to WHAT started the big bang is that two massive energy membranes clapped together...

thats the theory based on mathematical models

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

ftr, you do know that religion was onset as a psuedo science, right?

"hey, whats that hot orb in the sky that rises and sets?"

100 b.c.= oh, that's apollo's chariot...

2011 a.d.= oh, that's the sun....


we had very uneducated and basically MADE UP explainations......through civilization, we humans have developed a better understanding of nature....

early religions tried to explain the world to humanity...and failed miserably....

oh, a huge flood? we can't really explain it.....god did it.

oh, a huge disease? we can't really explain it....god did it.

hey, george bush is a jerk for underfunding levys and not responding fast enough to katrina....wait, god did that too...

you see? god has been scapegoated throughout civilization as an explaination for things we can't comprehend...

well, rilla, the placebo effect and other very simple sciences, we can comprehend...and we have prefectly resonable explainations for....

like i said, the brain is tricked into the same behavior the drug induced, even when that drug isn't present...

what does that have to do with god, faith or anything, really?

For the most part, I agree... God does catch a lot of the bad rap for $*#!

..


But tell me this.. you believe in the general idea of god, as do I. Who's to say science isn't merely the "how" and god is the "Who/what"? That's how I've always seen it.. God does, well everything. God is why I'm breathing. How I'm breathing can be explained by science. Fair enough. The Big bang is how $*#! started. Cool. What put the primordial atom in place. See? Ontological $*#! like that always brings me back around to God. No, not any specific god, but just God - whatever that really means. God might be a mechanism... or a being... or just a system of rules and regulations that permeate all existence. I don't *!$$*@% know

. All I know is that if you put faith next to science, they fill in some of each others gaps and make the world make more sense; like africa and south america. I'm trying to get my Pangea mentality going man

well, regarding the big bang, you right....they can explain up to the big bang and that's it...

this also ties into god as a creator force, with no other intervention, i.e. free will

also, the leading theory as to WHAT started the big bang is that two massive energy membranes clapped together...

thats the theory based on mathematical models

 

[murda he]

So where did the energy come from? It's all ontological from there bro... I'm not arguing with you at all... just asking the next logical question

 

[murda he]

So where did the energy come from? It's all ontological from there bro... I'm not arguing with you at all... just asking the next logical question

 

[createdestroy]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

ftr, you do know that religion was onset as a psuedo science, right?

"hey, whats that hot orb in the sky that rises and sets?"

100 b.c.= oh, that's apollo's chariot...

2011 a.d.= oh, that's the sun....


we had very uneducated and basically MADE UP explainations......through civilization, we humans have developed a better understanding of nature....

early religions tried to explain the world to humanity...and failed miserably....

oh, a huge flood? we can't really explain it.....god did it.

oh, a huge disease? we can't really explain it....god did it.

hey, george bush is a jerk for underfunding levys and not responding fast enough to katrina....wait, god did that too...

you see? god has been scapegoated throughout civilization as an explaination for things we can't comprehend...

well, rilla, the placebo effect and other very simple sciences, we can comprehend...and we have prefectly resonable explainations for....

like i said, the brain is tricked into the same behavior the drug induced, even when that drug isn't present...

what does that have to do with god, faith or anything, really?

For the most part, I agree... God does catch a lot of the bad rap for $*#!

..


But tell me this.. you believe in the general idea of god, as do I. Who's to say science isn't merely the "how" and god is the "Who/what"? That's how I've always seen it.. God does, well everything. God is why I'm breathing. How I'm breathing can be explained by science. Fair enough. The Big bang is how $*#! started. Cool. What put the primordial atom in place. See? Ontological $*#! like that always brings me back around to God. No, not any specific god, but just God - whatever that really means. God might be a mechanism... or a being... or just a system of rules and regulations that permeate all existence. I don't *!$$*@% know

. All I know is that if you put faith next to science, they fill in some of each others gaps and make the world make more sense; like africa and south america. I'm trying to get my Pangea mentality going man

also, the leading theory as to WHAT started the big bang is that two massive energy membranes clapped together...

no...

 

[createdestroy]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Murda He

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

ftr, you do know that religion was onset as a psuedo science, right?

"hey, whats that hot orb in the sky that rises and sets?"

100 b.c.= oh, that's apollo's chariot...

2011 a.d.= oh, that's the sun....


we had very uneducated and basically MADE UP explainations......through civilization, we humans have developed a better understanding of nature....

early religions tried to explain the world to humanity...and failed miserably....

oh, a huge flood? we can't really explain it.....god did it.

oh, a huge disease? we can't really explain it....god did it.

hey, george bush is a jerk for underfunding levys and not responding fast enough to katrina....wait, god did that too...

you see? god has been scapegoated throughout civilization as an explaination for things we can't comprehend...

well, rilla, the placebo effect and other very simple sciences, we can comprehend...and we have prefectly resonable explainations for....

like i said, the brain is tricked into the same behavior the drug induced, even when that drug isn't present...

what does that have to do with god, faith or anything, really?

For the most part, I agree... God does catch a lot of the bad rap for $*#!

..


But tell me this.. you believe in the general idea of god, as do I. Who's to say science isn't merely the "how" and god is the "Who/what"? That's how I've always seen it.. God does, well everything. God is why I'm breathing. How I'm breathing can be explained by science. Fair enough. The Big bang is how $*#! started. Cool. What put the primordial atom in place. See? Ontological $*#! like that always brings me back around to God. No, not any specific god, but just God - whatever that really means. God might be a mechanism... or a being... or just a system of rules and regulations that permeate all existence. I don't *!$$*@% know

. All I know is that if you put faith next to science, they fill in some of each others gaps and make the world make more sense; like africa and south america. I'm trying to get my Pangea mentality going man

also, the leading theory as to WHAT started the big bang is that two massive energy membranes clapped together...

no...

 

[murda he]

It bothers me that I come to NT to see what YOU guys think and all ya'll do is tell me what other people think. I could google $%#@ if I wanted to know what was on youtube

. No offense... but I'd much rather you tell me what YOU learned from watching that because we may draw two totally different conclusions from it.