Basketball Shoes Performed Better 20 Yrs Ago?

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by ElijahDukes

just curious what year was zoom air invented/developed? IMO it is the best technology

99999999996 i think.

 

[cwk]

I played high school ball in the late 80's, a little college ball in the 90's, and later worked for NIKE Basketball R&D and sports marketing.  Like most guys my age, I started wearing NIKE exclusively in 1985 because of Michael Jordan and stayed with NIKE because of the Fab Five, Pippen, Penny, and so on.  The shoes produced up until the early 90's (and I owned ALL of them) looked great, but were heavy.  The first shoe I wore to the ground, returned, and bought again, was the Air Maestro.  To me, that was the turning point in lighter functionality.  Then came the Air Go LWP and the Air Flight Zoom 96.  The mid 90's through the 2000 Olympics were the golden age of NIKE Basketball.  The SHOX BB4 was the last shoe I felt compelled to own immediately until the Hyperdunks released at the 2008 Olympics.  I think NIKE Basketball has made a HUGE comeback the past few years.  For most of this decade, the design, marketing, and product seemed uninspired - like Brand Jordan now.  (Until the AJ 2010, I haven't wanted any Air Jordan since the XX).  Today's shoes are lighter, durable, and more comfortable compared to the 80's.  I'm currently rotating between the Air Zoom MVP and Air Zoom Kobe Trainer - these shoes are easily four ounces lighter and just as stable as any shoe from twenty years ago.

 

[crazy ebw]

I REALLY disagree about the past decade and the products being uninspired. There have been so many shoes this past decade that have performed like absolute monsters on the court. 2k4s, BBs, Kobe line, Jet Flight, Soldiers, XX-2010 (sans 2009) come to mind right off the head.

 

[vanexellent]

I know myself personally I played my best ball 20 years ago and my all time favorite b-ball playing shoe is the Air Force II high from 87. So I can confuse the performance with the age I was then to how I feel nowadays. As shoes advance and you evolve with them you see the difference from the rearview mirror. I played a season in AJ I's in 1987 as a 8th grader and had no problems. Tried to play ball in 94 retro AJ I's later in life and they hurt like hell. I can imagine playing in my youth with some lite weight Kobe V's and thinking they would be too flimsy because all we knew back then was real leather high tops that felt secure.

 

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by RFX45


This is not just true for BBall, its true for tennis as well. The Nike Air Ace 3/4 was the best tennis shoe I ever owned (1990), and they were there for a year and gone. Bought 2 pairs, stupid me. I wasnt the only one, I had a few customers buy a few pairs of them because they agreed they were great. 

I can't speak for hoops, but I did play tennis in the 90's and still do now on a weekly basis.  While I didn't play in the Air Ace 3/4, I did play in the Air Tech Challenge III (1991), IV (1992), Air Challenge Huarache (late 1992) and a few other Agassi models in the mid-to-late 90's.  A few years ago I tried out the Air Max Breathe Cage and right now I'm using the Zoom Tennis Trainer.  Based on a comparison between the 90's tennis shoes and the ones we have now, I respectfully disagree with his statement that the older shoes were better than the ones we have today.  Durability, comfort, support, etc are all better now IMO.  
For starters, the Durathane rubber they used back then wasn't very durable in the sense that after a few weeks of play the toe-portion of the outsole would begin to peel away from the upper (you sometimes drag your toe when you play tennis).  Nowadays, they use XDR on the outsole and "Drag-on" technology on the upper (basically more rubber around the toe), which for me made the shoe much more durable.  

Comfort-wise, the use of Zoom air has made a huge difference for me as I like the lower-profile feel from the outsole.  Like for hoops, they have Max and Zoom tennis shoes, depending on your preference.  

His style-over-function argument doesn't really apply to tennis shoes either.  If anything, the styling in the 90's for Agassi was more aggressive than it is for today... We've all seen the Air Tech Challenge II and III's... here's Federer's shoe for the Australian Open earlier this year... 

 

[dmxfury]

While I think some "technology" is overblown/hyped, advances have definitely been made. That said, the best performing basketball shoes I've ever worn/seen are from years past, the Flightposite 1 and Jordan XIV.

 

[crazy ebw]

What exactly did you like about the Flightposite 1? I thought the fit was awkward, didn't breathe too well and the court feel wasn't all that great. The only Flightposite i've personally enjoyed was the III. That's the ONE shoe i'm really hoping Nike brings back. Hopefully they will considering the releases we have seen so far.

 

[ssgefiestoakagerger]

I can't speak for top-tier performance, but I remember 90's bball shoes were built like a tank.  Usually it would be two pair of shoes for the school year- pair per fall then spring.  Recess, run around, kick in 'em, rain, snow whatever.  Try to do that with some Kobe V's or hyperdunks

Nike has learned to use lesser and cheaper materials than in these "gimmicks" as compared to the 90's "heavy shoes".  They understand that consumers will catch every colorway they dish out, so why waste money to make shoes durable.  They want you to buy more.  They run the show now, back in the 90's there were still competition with respect to marketing in the NBA with the likes of adidas, reebok, fila, AND1.  

 

[crazy ebw]

I don't play recess anymore. Nor do I wear my basketball shoes in the rain or snow. I keep them for the court ONLY, which is what you should do. I don't want grass and mud between my herringbone pattern. I don't want shoes built like a tank. I want shoes built to PERFORM. That's what Nike does...

 

[blazers21ntnp]

Originally Posted by ssgefiestoakagerger

I can't speak for top-tier performance, but I remember 90's bball shoes were built like a tank.  Usually it would be two pair of shoes for the school year- pair per fall then spring.  Recess, run around, kick in 'em, rain, snow whatever.  Try to do that with some Kobe V's or hyperdunks

The hell does beating a pair of shoes up through year-round weather conditions while not playing basketball have to do with performance?

Ah yes, I'm sure when they Hyperdunk & Kobe V were being designed the people at Nike were thinking to themselves, "how will these hold up in the snow?".

 

[notorious pinoy]

Originally Posted by Magic1978

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by Magic1978

Originally Posted by RFX45

To be fair, when those OGs came out back then, no one rushed to buy them either. I mean even the XI's sat in shelves and went on sale. Retroes sells right now not just because of how it looks, I mean yes most look great but it is also partly because it is either limited or just hyped out of proportion. There were some instances the non-retro Air Jordans sold out on release date during the peak of the retro hype, the most recent being the XX's and XXIII's. I believe the XX's are actually because of hype and that it actually looked good while the XXIII's mainly sold out because of how limited it was and the significance of it being #23.

So I wouldn't really say that the shoes today doesn't sell out because they look ugly, people just know that eventually it will go on sale, at least the non-limited versions. I am actually surprised at how well the new Kobes are selling, even the non-limited versions sold out in some stores and people were clamoring to get them earlier. The Kobes doesn't sellout within minutes like AJ retroes but they do sell out within weeks/months at Eastbay at times, which is rather impressive if you think about it. Most new models sit til they go on sale before selling out or hitting the outlets.

Concord's sat on shelves and went on sale?  No they didn't.

Being that I was around for a lot of the retros being released now, most of them were more popular back then, that's why they're being released now.  Granted, there were less sneakers released.  But how many Nike's released now will be retroed in 10 or 20 years?  Will people even want them released?  Nobody will care if they aren't Kobe's or Lebron's.  Did anyone care about Vince's HOH kicks?

And the majority of people buy sneakers, because of how they look, not performance.  That's why fusions are so popular.

People buy retros for nostalgia and also appearance.  Kids today, the sneakers they have nostalgia for, will be retros. 

Yah, OG Concords went on sale. You can find old Eastbays where the prices were slashed by 30%-40% off and it was still fsr. Most of the retroes are being released now because they were popular, thats true, but not because they sold out when they first released. Outside of retroes and limited edition shoes, I don't remember any shoes selling out on the first day or people lining up a whole day before it comes out.

We can never be sure of the future but I can see the Kobes and LBJs being retroed in 10-20 years and chances are it won't sell out because a lot of people are already stacking up hoping it would have the same effect as the earlier Air Jordans but if there are too many out there, the demand won't be too high. However, if they are retroed and sold in limited number, I am sure they will sell out. Nostalgia-wsie, think about it this way. You are in high school and you play the whole year in Kobe Vs and they are one of the best shoes you've ever worn on the court. 10-20 yrs later the Kobe Vs are retroed and you get to relive that high school moment.

There is a big chance the shoes we are seeing today, especially since th LCJs and Kobes are actually selling well, will be retroed. Look at the foamposites, those did not initially sell out the first time around (not just because it retailed for $200 irrc) but now it is selling out quick and that is barely 10-15 yrs old? Garnetts were recently retroed too and that didn't sell out initially either but the retroes sold well, especially the limited ones (of course).

I agree, people still buy off look and design first, or at least that is what they see first but you know that if there are no zoom air or the shoes felt like chucks, then no one would buy for the court maybe even for casual wear so I won't say people do not buy for performance at all. Also, last I check fusions were hated, maybe it's just on NT. Go to the JB forum and when a new fusion pics release and posted it is followed by 10 pages of 

 and

.

Please show me these Eastbay's that had adult sizes that were on sale of the XI.  I've been getting Eastbay's since high school.  Eastbay's back then were a hot commodity, because there wasn't a HOH, Niketown or buying online.  Jordan's didn't sell out back then first day, mainly because they used to be released during the week, but they sure didn't sit forever to go on sale 40% off, especially ones released that he played in.  I would have been all over them, since I couldn't afford them in high school or college unless they went on sale or came out during the summer.  Jordan IX's were the first ones that had a lull, which coincided with his retirement.  Now Jordan XII's didn't sell well, because I got my playoffs mad cheap.  But come on yo, tell that XI thing to someone who doesn't know about sneakers and wasn't there when the OG's came out.  You're trying to rewrite history or something.

Signature kicks sell better than the average sneaker, because of the ties to the player.  That's why Nike will sign dudes to multi million dollar deals.  And what Garnett's have sold well?  I just got some Flightposite II's for $99.  Air Garnett's(Max 3) are straight outlet material.

And in the real world people wear Fusions.  Go in any mall or hood across america and you will see more Fusions on peoples feet than you see any retro or 2009 or 2010.  NT doesn't represent the real world or reality.  The average person doesn't buy 50 or 100 pair of kicks.  The average person doesn't camp out for kicks.  The average person doesn't care if a retro is comparable to the OG.

I could vouch for XI's being on sale because I remember my dad buying Concords and Bred 11s at our local Folsom Nike Outlet back then.

 

[wings2315]

Im sorry but that performance over style argument is BS.  There is no way anyone can tell me that the playoff LeBron 7's are made based on style first.  Those things are hideous to me and I really don't care if they perform well or not, they look WACK!lol On another note the Nike Shox BB4(VC's) are in my top 5 of all-time Nike's and I would go ham on those if they were generally released.

 

[matrick.theanvil88051]

nope..technological advance..better studies on how performance can be increased by shoes etc. etc. he is prolly just old

 

[mister friendly]

Originally Posted by Wings2315

Im sorry but that performance over style argument is BS.  There is no way anyone can tell me that the playoff LeBron 7's are made based on style first.  Those things are hideous to me and I really don't care if they perform well or not, they look WACK!lol On another note the Nike Shox BB4(VC's) are in my top 5 of all-time Nike's and I would go ham on those if they were generally released.

   Lebron PS are based on performance, they market it as such.

 

[frijo sneaker]

jordan 3's?

 

[dmxfury]

EBW, the 3s are the third shoe on my list just didn't name them. I lived the fit of the FP1s, snug but not tight on me, you can really feel the zoom air and limited movement of foot when cutting. I could see how breathability could be an issue, some reason wasn't for me but it makes sense

 

[duke4005]

I can also remember the XI's going on sale around DFW, but I had already bought two pair at retail and didn't see a need for another ugly pair of patent leather shoes. My bad. However, I also know that in October 2000, when the Concorde's first retroed, I waited until noon the next day and bought them off of FootAction.com, so even then they didn't immediately sell out (I wear an 11).

As for 20 years ago, my favorite shoes were from the late 80's to mid 90's, due to my age (36) and memories. I loved the AFIII, Maestro, Swift (Pippen on Ewing), Way Ups, Command Force, and AJVI, and will still buy decent quality retroes of them all, and play in them. But no way can an argument be made that old school, encapsulated Air soles and forefoot PU feels as good as Lunar, Zoom, or even today's Air Max. Not close, if for nothing else than stability. The squared old school edges just ask for blocky court feel and sad transition. Then again, I still play in Flight 89's (1999 retro white/black), and they perform great.

As for the Foamposites someone brought up, in 1998 I picked a pair of pearl Pros at an outlet for $100, but retail was $175, $180 for the Ones.

 

[swingshot]

Originally Posted by ssgefiestoakagerger

I can't speak for top-tier performance, but I remember 90's bball shoes were built like a tank

That's a sweeping statement if ever i saw one. It was a mixed bag.

Originally Posted by ElijahDukes

just curious what year was zoom air invented/developed? IMO it is the best technology

IIRC, the LWP series was the first appearance...but it was called tensile air until the original Zoom Flights.

Development wise... they kept tweaking Zoom over the years. Earlier implementations tended to have a very low profile, almost minimalistic feel.

Example: OG Zoom Flight 96s, vs Retros.

OGs have 'just enough' feel to them. Cushioning in the Retros feel much thicker, more springy.

(...and no, i'm not suggesting one is necessarily better than the other)

 

[dunkfan84]

ive read some of your points and interest

what i have to add to this is that take him to a nike factory and see how the shoe is actually made
than he will get a better understanding on what each material does for the shoe and have a shoe
designer school em on it. youtube. duh

 

[the game is a foot]

I think the older gentleman in the OP is stuck in his old ways and it reflects in his opinions.

While we all know shoes from the past 20 years are far more superior in terms of durability, but that's as far as it goes.


Since he's SO into durability and flex grooves & whatnot, you should've asked him if he tried out the Zoom Lebron IV's... lol

 

[ny giants 11]

Since 1997? Hmm...

Jordan 12-25
Lebron 1-7
Turbine, 2k3, 2k4, 2k5
Kobe 1-5
Ultraflight
All Flightposites
Foamposite, Penny 3, 4
KD2!
Payton line
VC line

Jesus dude