- Dec 5, 2010
- 1,974
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delete
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by JAYxSF415,
- Start date
xtapolapacetl
Banned
- Aug 8, 2006
- 6,841
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For whatever reason, passing seems to be the area of LeBron's game that gets hated the most. I think it's cause he always averaged a couple of dimes more throughout his career than any non-PG star, so they try to make it look as bad as possible cause they're a couple of dimes short when discussing stats.
Always with some negative spin.. What about when LeBron was a 20 year-old kid and averaging 7.2 assists in 04-05, when Paul Silas was his coach and he had completely different teammates than the 2008-10 Cavs? What about him being second in assists on the 2008 olympic team, 3 assists behind Chris Paul? What about now, where he's averaging 7.2 assists with Miami? Let me guess: It's cause he's playing with Wade and Bosh. When it was with the Cavs, his assists numbers had an asterisk for whatever lame reason. Now they have an asterisk for whatever lame reason. The fact is that Bron averaged 8.6 assists last season. Magic Johnson is the only player in history his size to eclipse that number. And since we're posting highlight mixes:
Top passing big guys:
1. Magic Johnson
2. Penny Hardaway
3. LeBron
4. Larry Bird
5. Grant Hill
6. Scottie Pippen
Always with some negative spin.. What about when LeBron was a 20 year-old kid and averaging 7.2 assists in 04-05, when Paul Silas was his coach and he had completely different teammates than the 2008-10 Cavs? What about him being second in assists on the 2008 olympic team, 3 assists behind Chris Paul? What about now, where he's averaging 7.2 assists with Miami? Let me guess: It's cause he's playing with Wade and Bosh. When it was with the Cavs, his assists numbers had an asterisk for whatever lame reason. Now they have an asterisk for whatever lame reason. The fact is that Bron averaged 8.6 assists last season. Magic Johnson is the only player in history his size to eclipse that number. And since we're posting highlight mixes:
Top passing big guys:
1. Magic Johnson
2. Penny Hardaway
3. LeBron
4. Larry Bird
5. Grant Hill
6. Scottie Pippen
xtapolapacetl
Banned
- Aug 8, 2006
- 6,841
- 126
For whatever reason, passing seems to be the area of LeBron's game that gets hated the most. I think it's cause he always averaged a couple of dimes more throughout his career than any non-PG star, so they try to make it look as bad as possible cause they're a couple of dimes short when discussing stats.
Always with some negative spin.. What about when LeBron was a 20 year-old kid and averaging 7.2 assists in 04-05, when Paul Silas was his coach and he had completely different teammates than the 2008-10 Cavs? What about him being second in assists on the 2008 olympic team, 3 assists behind Chris Paul? What about now, where he's averaging 7.2 assists with Miami? Let me guess: It's cause he's playing with Wade and Bosh. When it was with the Cavs, his assists numbers had an asterisk for whatever lame reason. Now they have an asterisk for whatever lame reason. The fact is that Bron averaged 8.6 assists last season. Magic Johnson is the only player in history his size to eclipse that number. And since we're posting highlight mixes:
Top passing big guys:
1. Magic Johnson
2. Penny Hardaway
3. LeBron
4. Larry Bird
5. Grant Hill
6. Scottie Pippen
Always with some negative spin.. What about when LeBron was a 20 year-old kid and averaging 7.2 assists in 04-05, when Paul Silas was his coach and he had completely different teammates than the 2008-10 Cavs? What about him being second in assists on the 2008 olympic team, 3 assists behind Chris Paul? What about now, where he's averaging 7.2 assists with Miami? Let me guess: It's cause he's playing with Wade and Bosh. When it was with the Cavs, his assists numbers had an asterisk for whatever lame reason. Now they have an asterisk for whatever lame reason. The fact is that Bron averaged 8.6 assists last season. Magic Johnson is the only player in history his size to eclipse that number. And since we're posting highlight mixes:
Top passing big guys:
1. Magic Johnson
2. Penny Hardaway
3. LeBron
4. Larry Bird
5. Grant Hill
6. Scottie Pippen
- Jun 14, 2006
- 1,880
- 11
I can't believe people saying Lebron is a better passer than Bird.. That's just a big "OMG!!!"
Many of the NBA's highlights depict how Bird sealed certain games with his astounding passing ability. This thread don't make justice to the man. Because it's not even close.
- Jun 14, 2006
- 1,880
- 11
I can't believe people saying Lebron is a better passer than Bird.. That's just a big "OMG!!!"
Many of the NBA's highlights depict how Bird sealed certain games with his astounding passing ability. This thread don't make justice to the man. Because it's not even close.
- Feb 18, 2006
- 2,938
- 10
^ agreed
- Feb 18, 2006
- 2,938
- 10
^ agreed
- Jul 15, 2003
- 1,427
- 10
This thread reminds me of this vid
Who you think betta? Tupac o, o, o,... rick ross???
Who you think betta? Tupac o, o, o,... rick ross???
- Jul 15, 2003
- 1,427
- 10
This thread reminds me of this vid
Who you think betta? Tupac o, o, o,... rick ross???
Who you think betta? Tupac o, o, o,... rick ross???
- Nov 18, 2010
- 4,201
- 141
What utter nonsense. I haven't been here long, but in every thread about LeBron, you come through defending your boy. Why is that, I wonder? Clearly, you're biased. And clearly, you're under 25, because if you ever saw Bird play on a day to day basis, you wouldn't be making such ridiculous assertions. His highlights were a daily basis type thing, he could change games/PO series with his passing.
LeBron has better assist numbers then Bird because he dominates the ball more. Period. Did you not see LeBron in Cleveland last year? Their only offensive play was to put the ball in his hands, and let him create or score. Did he have any hall of famers he had to let get there own? No. He played with a bunch of scrubs, and the only reason that team was successful is because he had the ball at all times. Lebron's career usage rate is 31.86, third highest in NBA history. Bird's is 26.45, 33rd highest in history. Suffice to say, if he hogged the ball like LeBron, he would have put up similar, if not better assist numbers.
This is obviously a subjective type of analysis, but ask anyone who witnessed both players, Bird is the better passer. Please do yourself a favor, and hop off.
- Nov 18, 2010
- 4,201
- 141
What utter nonsense. I haven't been here long, but in every thread about LeBron, you come through defending your boy. Why is that, I wonder? Clearly, you're biased. And clearly, you're under 25, because if you ever saw Bird play on a day to day basis, you wouldn't be making such ridiculous assertions. His highlights were a daily basis type thing, he could change games/PO series with his passing.
LeBron has better assist numbers then Bird because he dominates the ball more. Period. Did you not see LeBron in Cleveland last year? Their only offensive play was to put the ball in his hands, and let him create or score. Did he have any hall of famers he had to let get there own? No. He played with a bunch of scrubs, and the only reason that team was successful is because he had the ball at all times. Lebron's career usage rate is 31.86, third highest in NBA history. Bird's is 26.45, 33rd highest in history. Suffice to say, if he hogged the ball like LeBron, he would have put up similar, if not better assist numbers.
This is obviously a subjective type of analysis, but ask anyone who witnessed both players, Bird is the better passer. Please do yourself a favor, and hop off.
- Nov 30, 2006
- 2,249
- 51
but this thread
Bird>>>Lebron
- Jul 30, 2003
- 1,036
- 10
Larry ofcourse...
- Jul 30, 2003
- 1,036
- 10
Larry ofcourse...
- Nov 30, 2006
- 2,249
- 51
but this thread
Bird>>>Lebron
- Apr 3, 2009
- 1,267
- 10
Lebron by far is a better passer than Larry and I don't even like lebron but I'll call a spade a spade.
- Apr 3, 2009
- 1,267
- 10
Lebron by far is a better passer than Larry and I don't even like lebron but I'll call a spade a spade.
moe200069
Supporter
- May 15, 2005
- 29,504
- 57,382
they're both phenomenal/creative passers, and i wouldn't go as far as to say one is better than the other.Originally Posted by abovelegit1
Only caught the very tail end of his career, and I was real young, but I gotta go with Larry Legend. Dude didn't really throw those crazy fastball passes with his off hand like LeBron does, but his creativity/vision was just insane.
Just looking at the numbers you'd say LeBron because he racks up the assists, but they're inflated because of Mike Brown's LeBron centric offense. He wasn't throwing it into McHale/Walton/Parish for post ups, or letting D.J take it on the wing, and go to work. Trust me, this is one of those things where you just had to be there. (or have a bunch of video)
Bird was so nice at passing you'd think he had precognition.�
But i would take into account who these they were passing to every game. bird was playing with would-be HOFs in McHale, Walton and Parish, which possibly opens up the court a lot more and spreads out a defense. who on that cavs team was good enough to keep an opposing defense honest and not make them focus a majority of their effort on lebron?
moe200069
Supporter
- May 15, 2005
- 29,504
- 57,382
they're both phenomenal/creative passers, and i wouldn't go as far as to say one is better than the other.Originally Posted by abovelegit1
Only caught the very tail end of his career, and I was real young, but I gotta go with Larry Legend. Dude didn't really throw those crazy fastball passes with his off hand like LeBron does, but his creativity/vision was just insane.
Just looking at the numbers you'd say LeBron because he racks up the assists, but they're inflated because of Mike Brown's LeBron centric offense. He wasn't throwing it into McHale/Walton/Parish for post ups, or letting D.J take it on the wing, and go to work. Trust me, this is one of those things where you just had to be there. (or have a bunch of video)
Bird was so nice at passing you'd think he had precognition.�
But i would take into account who these they were passing to every game. bird was playing with would-be HOFs in McHale, Walton and Parish, which possibly opens up the court a lot more and spreads out a defense. who on that cavs team was good enough to keep an opposing defense honest and not make them focus a majority of their effort on lebron?
- Mar 11, 2003
- 6,838
- 2,954
- Mar 11, 2003
- 6,838
- 2,954
- Nov 18, 2010
- 4,201
- 141
I didn't realize teams were full on double teaming LeBron every night, or even playing him box-and-one. He has been played man to man just about every game, same with Larry. And it's not like Bird was simply throwing up alley oops (none of em had hops) or just kicking it out to those guys for jumpers (none of them were perimeter players). He was getting those guys wide open lay-ups. And as I said earlier, he had to feed those guys in the post, which took away from his assist totals.Originally Posted by moe200069
they're both phenomenal/creative passers, and i wouldn't go as far as to say one is better than the other.Originally Posted by abovelegit1
Only caught the very tail end of his career, and I was real young, but I gotta go with Larry Legend. Dude didn't really throw those crazy fastball passes with his off hand like LeBron does, but his creativity/vision was just insane.
Just looking at the numbers you'd say LeBron because he racks up the assists, but they're inflated because of Mike Brown's LeBron centric offense. He wasn't throwing it into McHale/Walton/Parish for post ups, or letting D.J take it on the wing, and go to work. Trust me, this is one of those things where you just had to be there. (or have a bunch of video)
Bird was so nice at passing you'd think he had precognition.�
But i would take into account who these they were passing to every game. bird was playing with would-be HOFs in McHale, Walton and Parish, which possibly opens up the court a lot more and spreads out a defense. who on that cavs team was good enough to keep an opposing defense honest and not make them focus a majority of their effort on lebron?
Again, it can't really be qualified, but if you saw Larry Bird on a day to day basis, even if it were just for a season at the end of his career, you would not give the edge to LeBron. This is not a slight to LeBron, he's one of most gifted passers I've ever seen, just not better than Larry Legend. Were talking strictly about passing, you have to remember that LeBron creates a lot of his play-making due to his athleticism, he can jump and find someone, or easily beat someone off a dribble and hit the open man as someone comes to help. Bird had NO athleticism, he could create due to sheer creativity and court awareness.
@ how many people are saying Larry Bird.
@ your ignorance
- Nov 18, 2010
- 4,201
- 141
I didn't realize teams were full on double teaming LeBron every night, or even playing him box-and-one. He has been played man to man just about every game, same with Larry. And it's not like Bird was simply throwing up alley oops (none of em had hops) or just kicking it out to those guys for jumpers (none of them were perimeter players). He was getting those guys wide open lay-ups. And as I said earlier, he had to feed those guys in the post, which took away from his assist totals.Originally Posted by moe200069
they're both phenomenal/creative passers, and i wouldn't go as far as to say one is better than the other.Originally Posted by abovelegit1
Only caught the very tail end of his career, and I was real young, but I gotta go with Larry Legend. Dude didn't really throw those crazy fastball passes with his off hand like LeBron does, but his creativity/vision was just insane.
Just looking at the numbers you'd say LeBron because he racks up the assists, but they're inflated because of Mike Brown's LeBron centric offense. He wasn't throwing it into McHale/Walton/Parish for post ups, or letting D.J take it on the wing, and go to work. Trust me, this is one of those things where you just had to be there. (or have a bunch of video)
Bird was so nice at passing you'd think he had precognition.�
But i would take into account who these they were passing to every game. bird was playing with would-be HOFs in McHale, Walton and Parish, which possibly opens up the court a lot more and spreads out a defense. who on that cavs team was good enough to keep an opposing defense honest and not make them focus a majority of their effort on lebron?
Again, it can't really be qualified, but if you saw Larry Bird on a day to day basis, even if it were just for a season at the end of his career, you would not give the edge to LeBron. This is not a slight to LeBron, he's one of most gifted passers I've ever seen, just not better than Larry Legend. Were talking strictly about passing, you have to remember that LeBron creates a lot of his play-making due to his athleticism, he can jump and find someone, or easily beat someone off a dribble and hit the open man as someone comes to help. Bird had NO athleticism, he could create due to sheer creativity and court awareness.
@ how many people are saying Larry Bird.
@ your ignorance
- Nov 2, 2000
- 916
- 10
You're going down the right track.. but you couldn't be more wrong.Originally Posted by moe200069
they're both phenomenal/creative passers, and i wouldn't go as far as to say one is better than the other.Originally Posted by abovelegit1
Only caught the very tail end of his career, and I was real young, but I gotta go with Larry Legend. Dude didn't really throw those crazy fastball passes with his off hand like LeBron does, but his creativity/vision was just insane.
Just looking at the numbers you'd say LeBron because he racks up the assists, but they're inflated because of Mike Brown's LeBron centric offense. He wasn't throwing it into McHale/Walton/Parish for post ups, or letting D.J take it on the wing, and go to work. Trust me, this is one of those things where you just had to be there. (or have a bunch of video)
Bird was so nice at passing you'd think he had precognition.�
But i would take into account who these they were passing to every game. bird was playing with would-be HOFs in McHale, Walton and Parish, which possibly opens up the court a lot more and spreads out a defense. who on that cavs team was good enough to keep an opposing defense honest and not make them focus a majority of their effort on lebron?
Back in the 80s, the 3-pt shot was much less of a part of the game. Players hadn't grown up shooting threes in HS and college, so there much fewer players shooting 3-pointers in the NBA (the average NBA game featured 6.2 3-pt attempts in 1984-85 compared to 36.2 3-pt attempts in 2009-10) and league-wide 3-pt% was much lower than it is today (28.2% in 1984-85 compared to 35.5% in 2009-10).
Unlike LeBron, Larry Bird didn't have the luxury of kicking it out to high percentage 3-pt shooters. Bird had to set people up to get his assists.
People like to say LeBron had no help on the Cavs, but those teams were filled with some of the best 3-pt shooters in NBA history... don't worry I got stats to back it up. Only 60 players in NBA history have career 3-pt% of 39.0% or better.
LeBron has played with 8 of those 60 players! Including Daniel Gibson (42.2%), Anthony Parker (41.7%), Wally Szczerbiak (40.6%), James Jones (40.0%), Mo Williams (39.1%), Damon Jones (39.0%), and Eddie House (39.0%).
It doesn't take much skill to realize someone is spotting up at 3-pt line and pass it to him. LeBron gets plenty of cheap assists that way. Bird was the more skilled passer by far.
- Nov 2, 2000
- 916
- 10
You're going down the right track.. but you couldn't be more wrong.Originally Posted by moe200069
they're both phenomenal/creative passers, and i wouldn't go as far as to say one is better than the other.Originally Posted by abovelegit1
Only caught the very tail end of his career, and I was real young, but I gotta go with Larry Legend. Dude didn't really throw those crazy fastball passes with his off hand like LeBron does, but his creativity/vision was just insane.
Just looking at the numbers you'd say LeBron because he racks up the assists, but they're inflated because of Mike Brown's LeBron centric offense. He wasn't throwing it into McHale/Walton/Parish for post ups, or letting D.J take it on the wing, and go to work. Trust me, this is one of those things where you just had to be there. (or have a bunch of video)
Bird was so nice at passing you'd think he had precognition.�
But i would take into account who these they were passing to every game. bird was playing with would-be HOFs in McHale, Walton and Parish, which possibly opens up the court a lot more and spreads out a defense. who on that cavs team was good enough to keep an opposing defense honest and not make them focus a majority of their effort on lebron?
Back in the 80s, the 3-pt shot was much less of a part of the game. Players hadn't grown up shooting threes in HS and college, so there much fewer players shooting 3-pointers in the NBA (the average NBA game featured 6.2 3-pt attempts in 1984-85 compared to 36.2 3-pt attempts in 2009-10) and league-wide 3-pt% was much lower than it is today (28.2% in 1984-85 compared to 35.5% in 2009-10).
Unlike LeBron, Larry Bird didn't have the luxury of kicking it out to high percentage 3-pt shooters. Bird had to set people up to get his assists.
People like to say LeBron had no help on the Cavs, but those teams were filled with some of the best 3-pt shooters in NBA history... don't worry I got stats to back it up. Only 60 players in NBA history have career 3-pt% of 39.0% or better.
LeBron has played with 8 of those 60 players! Including Daniel Gibson (42.2%), Anthony Parker (41.7%), Wally Szczerbiak (40.6%), James Jones (40.0%), Mo Williams (39.1%), Damon Jones (39.0%), and Eddie House (39.0%).
It doesn't take much skill to realize someone is spotting up at 3-pt line and pass it to him. LeBron gets plenty of cheap assists that way. Bird was the more skilled passer by far.
