Despite Obama "Why Some Americans Don't Have Reason to Celebrate"

[fraij da 5 11]

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by YngSeanCombs12

When I see homosexuals enslaved for 400 years, then holla at me.

The sad thing is, a lot of you in here wouldn't mind seeing that.

Um no you definitely taking things to another level.

Eh... Considering that there are people on here that openly say they would beat their own child to near death if they found out he or she wasgay...

 

[biggie62]

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Originally Posted by ctdaprince

Originally Posted by Biggie62

Plz don't bring religion into this. I know people validate things in their lives based off the bible but common. This is 2010, some of these Christians think the earth is 6,000 years. Has that stopped Darwinism from being the predominant explanation for how we got here? No. The fact is people are stuck in the past, and I don't like that. We shouldn't allow anyone from becoming second class citizens. And in case someone missed it from reading all this. There are gay animals in the wild. Hell we have a few in captivity. Google gay penguins in the Central Park Zoo. Being gay is genetic, just like the skin color each one of us have. It's not a choice, just like we don't have a choice of the family we are born into, or the color of our skin. Common stop being ignorant.

being gay is not genetic and is not natural. cause if it were then gay people would be able to reproduce and create a gay offspring. we are not animals we are human beings. there is no scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic

You are out of your mind.

BTW, there are proven neurological differences in the brains of gay and heterosexual people in studies.

The same can be said about men and women. It has to do with our body exerting some type of hormone that makes the brain that way. Genes can dothat just like some people tend to be taller, shorter, fatter, ect.

 

[lilfeet47]

Wrong = Wrong

A struggle is a struggle.

Is there now a standard of struggle that needs to be met before a situation is considered unfair? Do people need to be hung and hosed down before they are ableto claim injustice?

"How dare people compare the Civil Rights movement to today's gay rights issues? Gays are only being denied of their rights of marriage. How dare theycompare racial discrimination to the discrimination of gays?!?"

Come on now...

Wrong has never been right.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Originally Posted by Biggie62

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Originally Posted by ctdaprince

Originally Posted by Biggie62

Plz don't bring religion into this. I know people validate things in their lives based off the bible but common. This is 2010, some of these Christians think the earth is 6,000 years. Has that stopped Darwinism from being the predominant explanation for how we got here? No. The fact is people are stuck in the past, and I don't like that. We shouldn't allow anyone from becoming second class citizens. And in case someone missed it from reading all this. There are gay animals in the wild. Hell we have a few in captivity. Google gay penguins in the Central Park Zoo. Being gay is genetic, just like the skin color each one of us have. It's not a choice, just like we don't have a choice of the family we are born into, or the color of our skin. Common stop being ignorant.

being gay is not genetic and is not natural. cause if it were then gay people would be able to reproduce and create a gay offspring. we are not animals we are human beings. there is no scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic

You are out of your mind.

BTW, there are proven neurological differences in the brains of gay and heterosexual people in studies.

The same can be said about men and women. It has to do with our body exerting some type of hormone that makes the brain that way. Genes can do that just like some people tend to be taller, shorter, fatter, ect.

And your point is? Neurological differences in the brains of Men vs. Women is, well... it has nothing to do with the subject.

 

[tkthegirl]

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by YngSeanCombs12

When I see homosexuals enslaved for 400 years, then holla at me.

The sad thing is, a lot of you in here wouldn't mind seeing that.

Um no you definitely taking things to another level.

Eh... Considering that there are people on here that openly say they would beat their own child to near death if they found out he or she was gay...

Excuse me where is that I missed it and if so then what about the umptenth times its been mentioned they should have rights, but should approach the blackcommunity different. Because thats exactly why we are all arguing right now.

 

[biggie62]

Anyway I'm done with this thread. There is no way of explaining things logically and scientifically to people who take what the bible and their preacherteaches them. Just like the Catholics of the middle ages. People are blinded like horses with blinders on and only look what's ahead of them.

I'm def not comparing the civil rights movement to this because that in no way, shape, or form is right. The struggle is different for sure. But what wecan atleast compare from the two is that we shouldn't create second class citizens like all the jim crow laws did in the south and north after the freedomof the slaves. We should learn to treat everyone equal with equal rights. That is how we can compare the two.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by YngSeanCombs12

When I see homosexuals enslaved for 400 years, then holla at me.

The sad thing is, a lot of you in here wouldn't mind seeing that.

Um no you definitely taking things to another level.

Eh... Considering that there are people on here that openly say they would beat their own child to near death if they found out he or she was gay...

Excuse me where is that I missed it and if so then what about the umptenth times its been mentioned they should have rights, but should approach the black community different. Because thats exactly why we are all arguing right now.

Try to dig up the thread titled something like "What would you do if you found out your son was gay?"

You'd be amazed at some of the things people on here have to say about this stuff....

 

[theyhatinonme]

Since I'm tired of having a rational disscusion with you people I'm just gonna say. AYYYYYOOOOOOOOOO! All you dudes trying to get in good with the gaysis mad suspect.

 

[ctdaprince]

Originally Posted by Biggie62

Originally Posted by ctdaprince

Originally Posted by Biggie62

Plz don't bring religion into this. I know people validate things in their lives based off the bible but common. This is 2010, some of these Christians think the earth is 6,000 years. Has that stopped Darwinism from being the predominant explanation for how we got here? No. The fact is people are stuck in the past, and I don't like that. We shouldn't allow anyone from becoming second class citizens. And in case someone missed it from reading all this. There are gay animals in the wild. Hell we have a few in captivity. Google gay penguins in the Central Park Zoo. Being gay is genetic, just like the skin color each one of us have. It's not a choice, just like we don't have a choice of the family we are born into, or the color of our skin. Common stop being ignorant.

being gay is not genetic and is not natural. cause if it were then gay people would be able to reproduce and create a gay offspring. we are not animals we are human beings. there is no scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic

I can't wait when they go through the genome better and isolate the gene in the future. Just like isolating genes that increase your risk of cancer there is one there. Hell they isolated the gene that causes breast cancer. And yes we are just like animals. WE EVOLVED FROM THEM!!!!!!!! 99.7% of our genome we share with chimps. Accept it or not, genetics and science can explain everything.

i didnt evolve, there is nothing that proves evolution. all evolutionist do is circular reasoning they try to prove an example by using another example. i.e.this fossil is 15billion years old because this rock layer is 15billion years old. well how do you know how old the rock layer? well because this fossil wefound in the rock layer is 15 Billion yrs old. you guys gonna say "youre crazy" "youre out of your mind" but i dont care juss berespectful. there is no reason for insults. we can have a debate like reasonable adults

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Originally Posted by theyhatinonme

Since I'm tired of having a rational disscusion with you people I'm just gonna say. AYYYYYOOOOOOOOOO! All you dudes trying to get in good with the gays is mad suspect.

Grow up.

 

[sundoobie]

I voted NO on Prop 8 because I knew these people would not just sit there and take this loss kindly. So for the next few years, we Californians have to yetagain deal with them wanting these rights.

Another ballot measure?

Another Supreme Court ruling?

It's never going to end. Talk about a waste of resources. Just look at the past two days, how many Police Officers had to be taken away from their dailyduties just to patrol and secure these protesting areas? Whose going to pay for their overtime? That's right WE the taxpayers. SMH

 

[alchemiss]

I understand that it is not exactly the same as THE Civil Rights Movement of African Americans. They are both A civil rights movement, in different ways. It iswrong to compare it exactly. But it is also wrong that so many blacks have so much hatred for gays. And it is NOT because they are comparing their struggles asthe same. I can see and understand that it makes yall mad, but don't HIDE behind it. Most people hate gays because you think it is disgusting/yourreligious institute/your parents, etc. And I am saying this from experience I've had with many individuals, conversations I've had, sermons I'vewitnessed, etc.

And MisterP, it is NOT strictly about financial issues. Of course that is something that comes along with being married... but at the end of the day peoplewant to be able to MARRY the person they LOVE. They want to be able to VISIT them in the hospital if they are dying, or ADOPT a child brought into the marriageby a spouse, etc. I hate how straight people think they know everything about a GAY lifestyle, just how GAY nonblack people don't have the right to actlike they know everything about AFRICAN AMERICAN life.

Also- check this link. Makes a lot of sense. http://www.thedailybeast..../you-can-forget-my-taxes/

 

[prurientsole]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

he's part of the struggle because he's black. being black in this country means you a descendant of slaves...period.

he's a descendant of people who weren't viewed NOR treated as human....as recently as the 1960s.....

everyday, he lives with a stigma that was systematically instilled by the government of this country....

he lives in a country where incidents like what happened in Jena, or what happened to the woman who was abducted and tortured and raped, have happened since the first slaves landed in SC.....and continue to happen even today.....

Until you're playing with your friends, walking down the street, and someone screams a slur at you with such a hateful tone that you and your friends walk home silently with tear filled eyes, staring directly at the ground....

i suggest you reevaluate your logic on this "YOU werent a slave, so why do you act like it affects you" argument....

plus, he doesn't have to be whipped to feel the pain of his ancestors who were...


(i mean, if that's the case, why are jews so bent out of shape over the holocaust? why are asians so bent out of shape over being thrown in entainment camps in the 40s?)

some of you dudes need a REAL education....

That was a right pretty little rant. Condescending at the end and everything.

If you're suggesting that I re-evaluate my logic, I suggest you re-evaluate what you think that I said.

I never said that, since he wasn't a slave, the history of his people shouldn't affect him. Not even an insinuation.

What I DID say was that, for all his grandstanding about "OUR" struggle for equal rights, he had to do, and has done, absolutely nothing in order to enjoy the freedoms that he has today. To hear him group himself along with the selfless, heroic individualswho came before him while he's ranting about, and I quote, "the right for one man to play with another man's !*#!" is, quite frankly,disgusting.

THEY did the work. HE reaps the benefits.

Including the ability to bash another group of individuals because of a wholly innocuous personal characteristic, I might add.

Oh, and the bolded part? Incidents like the ones you mentioned, and especially the second paragraph, can, and do, happen to gay people. Regularly. Please,please don't argue semantics by bringing up the fact that gay slurs aren't the same as the n-word.... I understand, and that's not the point.

 

[alchemiss]

eNPHAN-
So African Americans who moved here FROM Africa are automatically descendants of slaves? What about the people who came here, or parents came here from Africa,Haiti, Jamaica, etc... Would you seriously tell them just because they are black means they are descendants of slaves? smh

 

[alchemiss]

Originally Posted by K8be wan Kenobi

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

I understand that it is not exactly the same as THE Civil Rights Movement of African Americans. They are both A civil rights movement, in different ways. It is wrong to compare it exactly. But it is also wrong that so many blacks have so much hatred for gays. And it is NOT because they are comparing their struggles as the same. I can see and understand that it makes yall mad, but don't HIDE behind it. Most people hate gays because you think it is disgusting/your religious institute/your parents, etc. And I am saying this from experience I've had with many individuals, conversations I've had, sermons I've witnessed, etc.

And MisterP, it is NOT strictly about financial issues. Of course that is something that comes along with being married... but at the end of the day people want to be able to MARRY the person they LOVE. They want to be able to VISIT them in the hospital if they are dying, or ADOPT a child brought into the marriage by a spouse, etc. I hate how straight people think they know everything about a GAY lifestyle, just how GAY nonblack people don't have the right to act like they know everything about AFRICAN AMERICAN life.

Also- check this link. Makes a lot of sense. http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-11-06/you-can-forget-my-taxes/http://www.thedailybeast..../you-can-forget-my-taxes/http://www.thedailybeast..../you-can-forget-my-taxes/

So just because someone is against gay marriage, they "hate gays"? You're gonna have to reword your post and try again if that is your premise.

Again, reread my post. I said MOST people who hate gays, and I said coming from MY experiences. MOST of the people I've talked to who areagainst gay marriage (and I've had conversations with a lot of those people) have a hate, fear, or are disgusted by gays.

 

[misterp0315]

I said nothing about this being strictly a financial issue.

 

[lilfeet47]

I'm not saying its the same thing because you are right, its not. But wrong still equals wrong. You guys sound silly arguing about who had/has it worse.What's the point in that? See who gets the most pity points? See who gets to stand on the highest podium for 1st place struggle? We are missing the wholepicture arguing about $%% like this. You can't compare the two but you can't say one is worse or better than another because they are BOTH WRONG!

Once again I am not comparing the two. I AM NOT saying they are the same thing. I'm asking why does it even matter though? Why does the magnitude of it allmatter?

An apple and an orange is different. But a rotten apple and a rotten orange is both rotten fruit.

And you are right again. Gay people aren't comparing their struggle to Jews/ Native Americans/ etc. But at the same time we didn't just elect a Jewish/Native American/ etc president nor did 70% of Jewish/ Native Americans/ etc voters backed proposition 8.

 

[alchemiss]

Originally Posted by MisterP0315

My professor was PISSED about this. He said that his tears of joy quickly disappeared after learning about the banishment of gay marriage in California. He's gay...from Cal. I don't look down on him because he's smart as hell.

7/10 Blacks voted against Prop 8. He felt like Blacks should know something about prejudice and that the whole "It's wrong, Biblically." is a poor excuse considering that the Bible outlaws many things that people break every day without a problem. The sanctity of marriage must not mean much of @#@@ if heterosexuals have a 50% divorce rate also.

All of this is more of a financial issue than anything. Gays couples want to be able to purchase houses and file claims the same as married couples.

Pretty much the same thing.. I'll re word what I meant then. It is not more of a financial issue than anything.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by Biggie62

Plz don't bring religion into this. I know people validate things in their lives based off the bible but common. This is 2010, some of these Christians think the earth is 6,000 years. Has that stopped Darwinism from being the predominant explanation for how we got here? No. The fact is people are stuck in the past, and I don't like that. We shouldn't allow anyone from becoming second class citizens. And in case someone missed it from reading all this. There are gay animals in the wild. Hell we have a few in captivity. Google gay penguins in the Central Park Zoo. Being gay is genetic, just like the skin color each one of us have. It's not a choice, just like we don't have a choice of the family we are born into, or the color of our skin. Common stop being ignorant.

right, don't be stuck in the bible, so stop using the word marriage to define the rights they're fighting for...

he's discriminated against before he even walks into a room. By the time they read his name.

, where in my hypothetical situation did i say "everyone in the room has their names on paper"?

you're avoiding the point and logic of my argument...instead of acknowledging that my point is logically sound, you're sidestepping it with "hes discriminated against by the time they read his name"

stop it, you're done here.

instead of seeing the communal similarities in people facing ridiculous injustices in the 21st century?
the only thing thats ridiculous about the injustice is how small of an injustice they're enduring and comparing it to the injustices that African Americans endured.


You dudes don't even read...

i'm on the same side of the argument you are, it's unfair, unjust and it's sad that they had a vote on it, let alone that it got overturned....

ya'll are in here continuing a side argument, completely irrelevant to the original topic of the rights of civil unionship for gays, somehow thinking that making a connection between the two, it proves your point somehow.

i don't think anyone is in here presently, arguing that gays don't deserve the rights, what we are arguing, however, is that they don't deserve to compare their fight for THE RIGHTS OF A MARRIED COUPLE to the fight black people endured for HUMAN RIGHTS....

black fight=Human Rights
gay fight=Marriage Rights

gays aren't fighting for the same access to public schools and healthcare....they aren't fighting for the right to sit wherever they want on a public bus....they aren't fighting to be recognized as a FULL human being.....

Those whom aren't black, can't understand how laughable comparing marriage rights of gays to THE Civil Rights movement really is....

and i'm not surprised....



sigh...

I stated an injustice is an injustice and as such should not be endured by anyone. you started trying to equate and qualify said injustice by arguing thatwell Blacks have it worse because we're judged the second anyone sees us and blah blah blah and gays aren't (i wont even point out the fact that urepeatedly implied all gays were white men, before finally acknowledging they could be black also about a page ago) and I basically said "well it'snot that simple. because homosexuals much like Blacks aren't all cut from the same cloth. Some don't have the privilege of blending in that you tryto insinuate is a given with all gays." I tried to illustrate this point by telling you about my cousin who is Black but has "white features." Just like it isn't immediately apparent that all Black people are Black, not all gay people can (nor should they have to) disguise their homosexuality. Again, your comments on, and assumption that all transgendered people have sex change surgery, exposes your own ignorance.

Your inability to grasp that the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s was a direct result of the civil rights movements of the 19th century, and even thewomen's rights movement of the early 20th century is astounding to me. For someone who obnoxiously harps on about his own superior logic you seem tostruggle with the simplest coming from others.

And I'm not avoiding any of your points. Frankly, you really aren't saying much besides, Blacks suffered differently than gays do. Honestly? Not asmuch as you want us, and maybe yourself, to believe. But we realize that.

YOU however ARE sidestepping a question I posed 4 pages ago:

What's the difference between a ban on black and white interracial marriages and a ban on same sex marriages?

Blacks were never denied the right to marry EACH OTHER. If you want to argue that marriage is a religious institution that shouldn't be legislated bygovernment, and as such gays shouldn't bother fighting for i, then change the word from marriage to "civil union" and make all things equal.

The +%@+ is ridiculous.

EDIT

Let me clarify. I understand that the civil rights movement of the 60s was a different situation. But my point is there are many more similarities thanpeople are willing to accept. I've been making such an extreme argument because it seems like without doing so, NO ONE will agree to even consider thenotion.

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

I voted NO on Prop 8 because I knew these people would not just sit there and take this loss kindly. So for the next few years, we Californians have to yet again deal with them wanting these rights.

Another ballot measure?

Another Supreme Court ruling?

It's never going to end. Talk about a waste of resources. Just look at the past two days, how many Police Officers had to be taken away from their daily duties just to patrol and secure these protesting areas? Whose going to pay for their overtime? That's right WE the taxpayers. SMH

well, if they hadn't had their legal rights stripped from them......you wouldn't have to be SOOOO inconvenienced.

it's an inconvenience that you have to hear them protesting, or have to pay for police overtime?

what about for the individual whos girlfriend is in a car accident and is in critical condition in a coma...when she gets to the hospital, no relation=no visitation rights.....and her girlfriend dies that night......is it a bigger inconvenience than that?

what about the individual whos boyfriend of 20 years dies, the same boyfriend that worked and brought home the bread for the household for 20 years.......and the state says "well, you can't have his health benefits or pension plan, because YOU aren't his spouse" is it more inconvenient than that?

@me for arguing with BOTH sides of this stupid arguement....

I am not inconvenienced by either and I agree with both of your examples. However I think California does have a Domestic Partnership law thatdoes allow things such as hospital visitations for unrelated people. As far as health benefits I don't know but for pensions I believe its based on whothat person puts down as beneficiary. But again I am not in tune to gay or domestic partnership laws so don't quote me.

Also, I am all for protesting. I have learned enough from my activist friends that protesting is an American right and I can never ever put down anyone fromvoicing their concerns.

My original point was that people that voted YES on Prop 8 were not thinking of the after affects. Same sex marriages are now banned but guess what, thesepeople will still demand it. Gays will probably spend the next couple of years petitioning, and appealing this law. Like I said resources will be wasted whenwe Californians could have just voted NO and let these gays have their rights no matter what it means to your own religion or what not.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by MarleysProtege

comparing sam sex laws to segragation laws ... ... ... ... ... ... someone post that .gif with the white dude in front of the presentation board and the letters HOFTG pop up

I'm not gonna argue this again on NT for the 1000000000th time. There's ignorant homophobes on here and they won't change their mindso only time can help this pass so I'm just gonna quote this and laugh at this idiot.

 

[tkthegirl]

Blacks were never denied the right to marry EACH OTHER.
Wow. Have you ever heard of the term "jumping the broom" Again they are incomparable.

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Originally Posted by Untitled

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Originally Posted by TkTheGirl

Dont trivialize the Gay Rights issue by pointing out all of the terrible things that have happened to black people in this country, you might want to sit this argument out seeing that its pretty clear you cant handle it.

Oh the IRONY...

Point out the irony in this... please.

let's flip his statement so he can see his gaffe

Dont trivialize the Black Rights issue by pointing out all of the terrible things that have happened to Gay people in this country, you might want to sit this argument out seeing that its pretty clear you cant handle it.

But nobody is doing that... well at least I am not doing that, your argument here isn't really valid if im not making trying to send that message.

Gay's and Lesbians wanting to have equal rights = A Civil rights movement.

You seem to be almost claiming "the" Civil Rights movement of 50 years ago as the only one.

This is a Civil Rights issue and there is no way of denying that...


QFT!

 

[khadafi252]

we could argue this point til death does us all in. reading some of these replies though just disgusts me even more.

i'll come out and say it... STOP BRINGING UP THE PAST AND USING YOUR SKIN COLOR AS THE OUT. minus the occasional n word and just outright idiotic racistthings that some of us have gone through, who the hell here has gone through any moment of slavery? not a damn single one of us. i'm not saying to erasethe past. our ancestors died and fought for what we have today and of course that is one of the things i can appreciate more than life itself. fast forwardto 2008 and YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS. our ancestors didn't fight for just black folks. they fought for ALL people who suffer the oppression brought forth byinjustice. all minorities, women, gay people, handicap people, elderly people, people of different religious backgrounds, etc. the list goes on. they foughtand died for EQUALITY.

and that is simply what gay people want is to be equal. gay marriage may seem like a relatively small issue to you, but you have to look at the largerpicture. it goes much, much deeper. just like you feel slighted because of the color of your skin and how angry you get because you KNOW it's unfair. imagine how it would feel to be told that you CAN'T marry the person you love. when the hell has it EVER been said that love should be dictated by a law? it's a natural and human instinct and emotion. some of you w/ these ignorant *** replies, i'm sure you have some significant others and want thatamerican dream husband/wife life. how would you feel if you couldn't do that because you were straight? i bet you wouldn't like it.

it's the fight for equality. put the marriage thing aside. it's just to be recognized and enjoy the same priveleges that all of us do. when a lawdictates what you can and cant do, that is when CIVIL RIGHTS are violated and a major injustice has been passed.

btw, save that slavery business for the ninjas in the welfare line who dropped out high school. you've NEVER, EVER experienced slavery so how can you sayeven compare your struggle today to that of, hell, even 40 years ago, plus some? instead of playing the race card and being bitter, join the movement ofheading forward and helping to support and fight for yourself and all of those who suffer due to unfair laws.

 

[blackjack223]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

Originally Posted by MisterP0315

My professor was PISSED about this. He said that his tears of joy quickly disappeared after learning about the banishment of gay marriage in California. He's gay...from Cal. I don't look down on him because he's smart as hell.

7/10 Blacks voted against Prop 8. He felt like Blacks should know something about prejudice and that the whole "It's wrong, Biblically." is a poor excuse considering that the Bible outlaws many things that people break every day without a problem. The sanctity of marriage must not mean much of @#@@ if heterosexuals have a 50% divorce rate also.

All of this is more of a financial issue than anything. Gays couples want to be able to purchase houses and file claims the same as married couples.

Pretty much the same thing.. I'll re word what I meant then. It is not more of a financial issue than anything.

I think it's more than financial issues for many gay couples. I believe that couples should be allowed those rights, like any other american,regardless of race, creed, or sexual preference.