Does Steve Nash make it into the Hall minus the MVP's?

This isn't such a stretch to ask. I mean really if you take away the MVPs he really does just have average numbers. And for those saying Wes Unseld, he wasvoted in as a top 50 player of all time in the NBA in 1997 as a center. I'm not even sure if they expanded that list to top 70 that Nash would even makeit. He's not even the best PG of this era, Jason Kidd is.

Outside of a few great years in D'Antoni's system, what has he really done? We have seen now with the Knicks how that system inflates numbers andpossibly make players look better than they actually are, just look at Chris Duhon this year. But really though, Nash a two-time winner when Shaq and Kobe bothonly have one and Kidd has none after leading bum New Jersey to 2 straight Finals, something that Nash never has done with considerably more talent. Gimme abreak. He's a great PG, but HOF w/o the MVPs...it's up in the air with me.
 
Yep there were no real candidates the years he won the MVP.


I wouldnt go that far...but it was a unique time in NBA MVP history.

Let's look at the two years Nash apparently "stole" the MVP:

2004-05 Voting
1. Nash - 1,066
2. O'Neal - 1,032
3. Nowitzki - 349
4. Duncan - 328

Nash barely beat out Shaq. O'Neal, for him, had a down statisctical year of 22.9 PPG and 10.4 RPG for his first season with Miami. Granted his presence onthe Heat transformed their team and he did nearly win this MVP.....but this was not a "30 and 13" Shaq season where we could make threads that thiswas the biggest conspiracy of all time that Shaq didn't win it. Tim Duncan, an MVP candidate every year, missed 16 games that year (most at the tail end ofthe season) which is the most he has ever missed in his career. He also averaged his lowest PPG and RPG totals of his at-the-time 8-year career during thisseason. For the Kobe fans, he was absent from the Top 4 because the Lakers went 34-48 and tied for last in their division.

Nash's case: Nash happened to win based mainly on taking over for Marbury in PHX and taking a 29-53 team to a 62-20 record, which at the time resulted inthe 15th-best team record in NBA history. Suns players and coaches spent all season gushing over how their team has pulled a 180 with Nash and he led the NBAin assists per game by 2.5 over the next highest player. It was a toss up between Shaq and Nash and he got the win, just like it was a toss up the year Kiddtransformed the Nets as a PG but narrowly lost (954 to 897) to Tim Duncan.


2005-06 Voting
1. Nash - 924
2. James - 688
3. Nowitzki - 544
4. Bryant - 483

Lebron James finishes in 2nd place and was 21 years old. We knew he didn't have a chance at MVP yet. Even MJ had to wait until he was 25. And the Cavs hadthe 6th-best record in the league. Bryant went off for 35 PPG and lit up the league offensively. But alas the Lake Show finished with the 10th-best record inthe NBA and as we know you are never (or rarely) going to outright win NBA MVP with your team that low down the pole. Dirk went off for nearly 27 PPG and theMavs went 60-22, and he definitely had a case for MVP.

Nash's case: The Suns come out of the gate losing Joe Johnson in a trade nearly everyone ripped. The 3rd game of the season they then lose Amare for theyear with his knee injury. What do the Suns then do? Proceed to go 54-28, 4th best record in entire NBA. Nash again leads the NBA in assists by a wide marginwhile shooting .512 from the floor and upping his PPG by over 3 from last year. Not even seeing one game that year a person would guess Nash would be in therunning for MVP again that year knowing the things above. And again, he so happened to win out.


Once people can get past looking at the history and who has won what and instead focus on the years Nash won we then can at least say "well, I didnt agreewith him winning it those two individual years.....but I can see how they voted for him." Instead of a few years later omitting the evidence and blaringhow it was criminal, he has more MVPs than Player X, the award is forever tainted, etc. This wasn't the 80's or 90's....and he had as much saythose two years as anyone.

I will save this info for the next thread that comes up.
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^
I'm not 100 percent positive on this, but I swear I remember seeing it, and I think Simmons also wrote about it.

The second season he won, there was a game where the Pistons came into Phoenix and destroyed the Suns and Billups went for 34 and Nash had ZERO. Again,I'm not positive of the numbers, but I think it was something like that.

Simmons was saying how can an MVP be so thouroughly killed by a player at his own position at home no less. It's not like if Shaq had a game with 6 and 5,and AI have 42 or something like that, two different players playing totally different positions. But this was Billups V Nash and Nash got murdered.

But whatever. We do this all the time, we all say the same sh*^ over and over. We all know the score. But the day that Nash is inducted, the hell with allyou, I'm goin out guns blazin.
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CP
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One dude I like discussin topics with
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, that's a great call rightthere I remember that column actually
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why is it ok to take the mvp's from nash but no one ever suggests it for other players?

it's pathetic.

you'll never justify Nash not getting into the hall.

ever.
 
Without the MVP's nash has a solid career, but def not HOF status, but in terms of making the players around him better, I think he deserves top 10pg's of all time. Look what he did for Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Amare.
 
Originally Posted by WaveChappelle89

Without the MVP's nash has a solid career, but def not HOF status, but in terms of making the players around him better, I think he deserves top 10 pg's of all time. Look what he did for Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Amare.
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Fixed
 
Originally Posted by WaveChappelle89

Without the MVP's nash has a solid career, but def not HOF status, but in terms of making the players around him better, I think he deserves top 10 pg's of all time. Look what he 'Antoni did for Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Amare.
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Fixed.
 
Hell no and I'm a fan of Nash. Good player before the MVP's and all star some years yeah. but HOF no way. Nash has Stern or whoever makes the rulechanges for the NBA to thank for his 2 mvps as well, best thing to ever happen to him when they took the hand checking away.
 
I guess you could say Joe Johnson was showing promise with the Celtics, and yes the D'Antoni offense was perfect for that collection of players, butwithout Nash they would've slightly better than the Knicks if that.
 
Originally Posted by Clutchshooter

why is it ok to take the mvp's from nash but no one ever suggests it for other players?

it's pathetic.

you'll never justify Nash not getting into the hall.

ever.
Click to expand...
suggest it for someone else...

nash is no FIRST BALLOT guy...what has he done? IMO you could have replaced any pg with nash at the prime of the run n gun offense and would have had an"mvp" type season...didn't shaq deserve both of the mvps nash won anyway?
 
NTer's, you shame me for allowin the "bosh guy" say Nash>Kidd
that is beyond stupid imo. and i no longer blindly hate Nash, but to say he's better than KIDD? smh
 
Originally Posted by thagreatj

NTer's, you shame me for allowin the "bosh guy" say Nash>Kidd
that is beyond stupid imo. and i no longer blindly hate Nash, but to say he's better than KIDD? smh
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1. It's Osh Kosh Bosh

2. Did I say that? NT'ers reading comprehension is severely lacking.

3. All I said that offensively Nash is a better player.
 
he's never led a team to the Finals

he just fell into a perfect offense for a couple seasons, got 2 MVP's and a lot of regular season wins

I think it's a shame that he has 2 MVPs and Shaq only has one and Kidd has zero

The MVP is over-hyped, I mean even Karl Malone beat out the GOAT for 2 MVPs

Rod Strickland IMO was better than Nash and never even made ONE all-star team
 
Originally Posted by thagreatj

NTer's, you shame me for allowin the "bosh guy" say Nash>Kidd
that is beyond stupid imo. and i no longer blindly hate Nash, but to say he's better than KIDD? smh
Click to expand...


Well brother it is arguble....Nash has 2 MVPs...Kidd has none...They have the same amount of All-NBA nominations I believe too.
 
Originally Posted by Mick Jagger

Originally Posted by thagreatj

NTer's, you shame me for allowin the "bosh guy" say Nash>Kidd
that is beyond stupid imo. and i no longer blindly hate Nash, but to say he's better than KIDD? smh
Click to expand...


Well brother it is arguble....Nash has 2 MVPs...Kidd has none...They have the same amount of All-NBA nominations I believe too.
Click to expand...


I would say Kidd was better throughout his career, although it is very much debatable and not as far fetched as thagreatj makes it out to be.
 
Is Dirk a Hall of Famer because he was the first European MVP winner?especially since his MVP was purely regular season (although Kobe's season wasremarkable) as he went on to get embarrassed in the playoffs
 
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