Early Releases are High Quality Fakes

[djlunchbox]

Here read this again.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point of buying a knockoff/bootleg/fake item to pay a fraction of what the real thing costs? That's the biggest driving force behind the entire knockoff market, to make and sell inexpensive (and obviously poorly made) replicas of higher end goods. People know and evaluate exactly what they're getting when they buy a knockoff pair of Jays vs retail legit version.

And your streetwear analogy makes no sense as that goes for every retail brand out there. Supreme charges $45 for their screen printed graphic shirts because they can. Same reason why freshjive or stussy charge $25, or Black Scale and Diamond charge $30 or why BAPE charges $100. These companies set their price point based on what they expect to make on their product and because they know their established name will sell itself. But that's way off tangent from the issue at hand.

If you think that simply because your pair of shoes come with a receipt from Nike/FTL/FNL etc., make them "real" then that's your view. And of course price is a red flag for items, but charging higher than retail but staying in tune with the resell market makes sense that these shoes aren't 100% fake and goes against the entire bootleg philosophy as I said before. What comes in a price? Cost of materials, labor, craftsmanship, production costs and what the profit margin is set at. What's in a resellers price: time spent obtaining shoes, price they pay, demand, supply and what they choose to want to make off a shoe. Your average $160 pair of Js goes for an easy $235+ after release depending on hype. Most early release sites charge just about the same as expected resell but add a little more because they also include the amount they feel is fair to what people want to pay to have it months early. You think the Chinese haven't caught wind of the game?

 

[bigmiz]

Man this dude went in...but for what reason?

First, I don't buy early release shoes from early-type sites. However this guy doesn't even present an example or claim to have a source of information. This is just somebody who watched youtube and twitter and the like and took the popular opinion.

If he know all of this, which has been rehashed hundreds of times on here, why doesn't give examples.

Well I will.

First off the Taibo or whatever iit s the Chinese version of Ebay. Why would they need to buy THOUSANDS of pairs of shoes ONLINE TO SELL OVER SEAS(US)??? Does that make any sense?
If they are in China making fakes they are selling them OUTSIDE if China. Second, the B-Grades or "unauthorized pairs" are probably procured in a seedy fashion, either stolen or purchased from an employee or EVEN produced off the books to make some easy untraceable cash for those in the loop. Who knows.

I am not an expert but this whole topic has been beat to death and nobody can prove they know what they are talking about. There is a feeling out there that these "unauthorized" shoe, are being produced by the sample source. I guess it is a factory or at least an operation that can be scaled up when nobody is looking. Another theory is these aren't early release at all, and its all promotion tool to stir controversy while generating more money for Phil and Mike.


The most important thing to remember is that it is your money. If you feel something is right then buy, if not don't. There are only a couple, if that, guys that come to NT that can shed light on this and the cannot most likely because it would jeopardize their identity.

Be easy and enjoy the shoes don't over analyze or stir up nonsense.


-Peace

 

[riceeeeeeeeee]

all earlier releases are fake in my opinion.

 

[airthompson]

So how do you guys explain celebrities rocking early releases?

Damn I guess they just rocking fakes.

Good point. I bet they make a few extra during production to give to people sponsored.

I get that their unauthorized pairs, but who cares. Let these people do what the want. Nike got enough blood money

 

[prft2k10]

I don't condone fakes or anything but if they were made with the same materials and even possibly in the same factory and look identical, spare a minor anal retentive detail here and there who cares if someone wants to buy them.  It's not like JB's quality control has been on point lately anyways.  I wont buy from early release sites because they just seem too shady but honestly if I could walk into a store and buy a pair of early releases and not have to camp and freeze or get potentially get stabbed, robbed, etc or pay off an employee or "connect" to get a pair and no one could ever know or tell why not try it out?  As long as its not a true "variant" made with altogether different materials and molds why would I care? I have no stock in JB or NIke.  Its called the price of doing business.  JB gets cheap labor using even cheaper materials then ever and Im supposed to be worried about whether or not they were an "authorized" or sanctioned production pair.  

 

[airthompson]

I don't condone fakes or anything but if they were made with the same materials and even possibly in the same factory and look identical, spare a minor anal retentive detail here and there who cares if someone wants to buy them.  It's not like JB's quality control has been on point lately anyways.  I wont buy from early release sites because they just seem too shady but honestly if I could walk into a store and buy a pair of early releases and not have to camp and freeze or get potentially get stabbed, robbed, etc or pay off an employee or "connect" to get a pair and no one could ever know or tell why not try it out?  As long as its not a true "variant" made with altogether different materials and molds why would I care? I have no stock in JB or NIke.  Its called the price of doing business.  JB gets cheap labor using even cheaper materials then ever and Im supposed to be worried about whether or not they were an "authorized" or sanctioned production pair.  

True. Looks and smells like a Jordan ...it's a Jordan.

 

[Bert.]

So how do you guys explain celebrities rocking early releases?

Damn I guess they just rocking fakes.

Good point. I bet they make a few extra during production to give to people sponsored.

I get that their unauthorized pairs, but who cares. Let these people do what the want. Nike got enough blood money

no they dont

CP3 a NBA superstar and Jordan brand athlete just got his retro 9's 2 weeks ago and they release this month....

most celebrities are buying early release kicks. if you think otherwise well your a moron.

 

[airthompson]

So how do you guys explain celebrities rocking early releases?

Damn I guess they just rocking fakes.

Good point. I bet they make a few extra during production to give to people sponsored.

I get that their unauthorized pairs, but who cares. Let these people do what the want. Nike got enough blood money

no they dont

CP3 a NBA superstar and Jordan brand athlete just got his retro 9's 2 weeks ago and they release this month....

most celebrities are buying early release kicks. if you think otherwise well your a moron.

Some celebs don't pay for em bruh and get them sent personally. I knw that for a fact. Get ur mind right.

 

[Bert.]

no need to get my mind right, most of the replies in this thread are straight out of their butts. no one knows for a fact what they are talking about....

its all opinions because if we knew the truth for sure this thread wouldnt exist

 

[cisco661]

im new to the shoe game and like reading these kinda threads. ive been trying to school myslef on identifying fakes and what fair prices are. for now i will be very careful and stick to mostly actual stores. so far i see that being a sneakerhead isnt very easy when dealing with high priced kicks. keep up the good work.

 

[super23freak]

How bout this....DON'T BUY EARLY RELEASES EVEN IF THE SITE IS LEGIT OR NOT

QFT

 

[eyenoe]

say i work at burger king - and I make a whopper after we close cause im hungry as **** and want some dinner..
but I dont ask my boss if i can make it, and I eat that bad boy..
I guess that would mean im eating a "fake" or "b-grade" whopper right?

LLAB!

 

[soleyz]

This is a great post mikeyman! I do not support early releases either and want others to educate themselves about this. I recently did a video about "high quality" space jams that a lot of sellers are claiming to be 100% authentic. I'm going to add this link into my info box on youtube too if you don't mind. Here is the link:

NO to pre-releases!!!

 

[eltouha]

Truth Behind Early Release Products
Every time prior to a big Jordan Retro release the debate of early release products is brought up. The answer to this question is that they are HIGH QUALITY FAKES. I will explain more in-depth throughout this post.
To start off with the sites carrying early release products such as Sole-Up.com, Sizelegend.com, and SneakerHotline.com purchase their stock thru a source such as Taobao.com. The site Taobao is a website which can be shopped on if you live in China only, I believe, however other Asian countries might be able to shop their. Anyways, The sites such as Sole-Up (air-randy), buy their stock thru Taobao and sell it to American consumers and other countries for marked up prices.
The price they are paying for the shoes is below retail, which points to the fact they’re fake.
How often do you see a shoe that retails $160 being sold for $140ish via a reseller? Not Often.
For example the Jordan 4 Bred releasing on Black Friday can be purchased thru the site Taobao for an average price of $135 USD.
Link to Bred 4’s : http://search8.taobao.com/search?sp...0&olu=yes&isprepay=1&sort=price-desc#J_Filter
The Bred 11 can be found on the site Taobao for $160 average and doesn’t even release until around X-Mas time.
Link to Bred 11 : http://search8.taobao.com/search?sp...=0&olu=yes&isprepay=1&sort=price-desc#rankbar
Finally one final example is the Jordan 4 Thunder listed on Taobao currently for $155 average and doesn’t release until 11/17.
Link to Thunder 4: http://search8.taobao.com/search?sp...0&olu=yes&isprepay=1&sort=price-desc#J_Filter
Last but not least some of these do not even say Genuine at all. Also for some that do say Genuine they say that you should not ask as it is asked to often.
If anyone has evidence to prove against me please do but until then I will stick to my conclusion.

so you are calling them "fake" just because of the prices and being on taobao?

good work, detective. are you batman in real life?

 

[L7oser]

I think my biggest gripe has always been the hypocrites. If these early release shoes are so fake, then why are ya'll still posting them on NT???? Isnt that not allowed here???? Ya'll be so thirsty to see these shoes early and talk about quality, shape, color, etc but all the pics posted are of these so called "fake" shoes. We rarely see a confirmed Nike sample anymore. It's usually a Air-Randy or Marqueesole pic 1st. So either stop posting these fake shoes on a site that frowns upon fakes or just deem them as what they are, unauthorized Nike products, and move on.

 

[bip roberts]

Here read this again.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point of buying a knockoff/bootleg/fake item to pay a fraction of what the real thing costs? That's the biggest driving force behind the entire knockoff market, to make and sell inexpensive (and obviously poorly made) replicas of higher end goods. People know and evaluate exactly what they're getting when they buy a knockoff pair of Jays vs retail legit version.
And your streetwear analogy makes no sense as that goes for every retail brand out there. Supreme charges $45 for their screen printed graphic shirts because they can. Same reason why freshjive or stussy charge $25, or Black Scale and Diamond charge $30 or why BAPE charges $100. These companies set their price point based on what they expect to make on their product and because they know their established name will sell itself. But that's way off tangent from the issue at hand.
If you think that simply because your pair of shoes come with a receipt from Nike/FTL/FNL etc., make them "real" then that's your view. And of course price is a red flag for items, but charging higher than retail but staying in tune with the resell market makes sense that these shoes aren't 100% fake and goes against the entire bootleg philosophy as I said before. What comes in a price? Cost of materials, labor, craftsmanship, production costs and what the profit margin is set at. What's in a resellers price: time spent obtaining shoes, price they pay, demand, supply and what they choose to want to make off a shoe. Your average $160 pair of Js goes for an easy $235+ after release depending on hype. Most early release sites charge just about the same as expected resell but add a little more because they also include the amount they feel is fair to what people want to pay to have it months early. You think the Chinese haven't caught wind of the game?

Price doesn't really have anything to do with authenticity. This is a different business model than the classic bootlegging. This is an advanced attempt to fool niche customers within the hobby. The classic bootlegging model is an attempt to reach people who either can't afford the real good, are very easily fooled, or just don't care.

The average purveyor of fake Coach bags isn't actually attempting to actually compete with the sellers of real Coach bags - for the most part. If you did a Venn Diagram of the people who buy real Coach bags and fake Coach bags, the overlapping portion would be pretty small. The Air Randy model is attempting to actually go after the sneakerhead base, so they have to be more creative and use a different business model. Price is part of that bag of tricks.

...This is kind of like what "Screech" does, for anybody who knows about those incidents. The big lie theory again.


Let's try this as well. So, for those of you who say it is authentic because its made by the same people in the same factories with the same materials -

First off, these are not necessarily "Nike" factories. They are contractors. So, I'm not sure why where it is made is all that important to you.

But, say those workers producing extra runs with the molds, etc. can identically copy the mold (like you copy a key) and sell the mold to other dudes in another factory, let them know where to source the materials, etc. Now, the second factory is producing more. Are those authentic too? ...And, then that factory does the same to another? Are those authentic?

Now, let's say this process gets repeated over and over, over many years. So, these factories have "authentic" molds and access to "authentic" materials anytime they want. So, they decide to produce "authentic" IIIs when no IIIs are coming out. ...Are those authentic too? Same materials. Same molds, right?

....And, what about colorways. Nike can produce "authentic" samples of colorways that never release, right? So, why can't these folks do it too, if they have the power to produce authentic Jordans too?

Don't you see, you are just giving intellectual license to create a shadow copy of the entire company.

I think my biggest gripe has always been the hypocrites. If these early release shoes are so fake, then why are ya'll still posting them on NT???? Isnt that not allowed here???? Ya'll be so thirsty to see these shoes early and talk about quality, shape, color, etc but all the pics posted are of these so called "fake" shoes. We rarely see a confirmed Nike sample anymore. It's usually a Air-Randy or Marqueesole pic 1st. So either stop posting these fake shoes on a site that frowns upon fakes or just deem them as what they are, unauthorized Nike products, and move on.

This is a great point!

 

[djlunchbox]

Price doesn't really have anything to do with authenticity. This is a different business model than the classic bootlegging. This is an advanced attempt to fool niche customers within the hobby. The classic bootlegging model is an attempt to reach people who either can't afford the real good, are very easily fooled, or just don't care.
First off, these are not necessarily "Nike" factories. They are contractors. So, I'm not sure why where it is made is all that important to you.
But, say those workers producing extra runs with the molds, etc. can identically copy the mold (like you copy a key) and sell the mold to other dudes in another factory, let them know where to source the materials, etc. Now, the second factory is producing more. Are those authentic too? ...And, then that factory does the same to another? Are those authentic?
Now, let's say this process gets repeated over and over, over many years. So, these factories have "authentic" molds and access to "authentic" materials anytime they want. So, they decide to produce "authentic" IIIs when no IIIs are coming out. ...Are those authentic too? Same materials. Same molds, right?
....And, what about colorways. Nike can produce "authentic" samples of colorways that never release, right? So, why can't these folks do it too, if they have the power to produce authentic Jordans too?
Don't you see, you are just giving intellectual license to create a shadow copy of the entire company.

Ok but if this was the case and "molds" have been stolen and sold to all these factories then why are their still all these fugazi replica sites hocking these really bad and error filled replicas? All of these so called AAA replicas are still out there yet have blatant and obvious telltale signs. And why do these early release sites run out of shoes just like a regular retailer or never rarely have full size runs of some kicks?

And all those "sample" colorways have always existed which anybody can own for a price of anywhere from $45-65 bucks. I mean aren't there like 8 colorways of Yeezy 2s?

I'm not pro early release sites nor am I pro Nike authorized retailers only. I'm pro me getting the shoes I want hassle free. If by getting them means paying an early site a few bucks more to get them not only months early but at a "fair" aftermarket price instead of sleeping in the cold overnight or haggling with some pimple faced hypebeast kid over price then that's what I'mma do. I won't feel guilty nor will I question the authenticity.

 

[djyoung08]

Too many threads arguing about this.

Almost seems like we should have an official "Post your thoughts on early releases/ unauthorized replicas/ etc"

 

[brennanizm]

Nothing OP said is groundbreaking. It's a gray market, and we've known about this for years. The materials, factories, workers etc are the same that Nike uses, the shoes are just produced in numbers beyond what Nike asks for, and then sold on the gray market. The shoes are not authorized by Nike, but technically they are the same exact shoe you will pick up from Eastbay, FNL, FL, NDC etc. You can call it a counterfeit if you'd like, but if the materials etc are the same, essentially it is the same, exact product. I'm tired of this recycled subject and misinformation. We've been dealing with this for years; there is Nothing new to read here, at all.
I NEVER buy early releases, not because I think the shoe is FAKE, but because I hate feeding into the beast that helps feed these online "Sneaker Reviewer" clowns who feel the need to make videos for shoes they get for free from these gray market hosers. Most of these clown reviewers have zero knowledge when it comes to sneaker history, and it shows when they speak. The blogs then post these clowns' videos, because they offer some sort of "first look" that evidently we all seek. #Trolls

 

[hellaflush]

It could possibly be b grades. 

 

[hab1970]

KIXEXCLUSIVE HAS A STORE IN NYC SOHO 

 

[generationz]

I haven't stepped in the Jordan forum for a hot minute, but I agree with Zyzz and Ninja.


If it's made in a NIKE FACTORY by NIKE WORKERS, using AUTHORIZED MATERIALS by NIKE how the hell are they fake?


Like the fast food analogy. If I worked at Foxxconn and had access to all the iPhone parts and made a few on the side are they fake? No, just unauthorized.


It's like some of you need to see a Nike manifest ordering 1,000 pairs to be legit, but if they made 1,001 that 1 pair would be fake in your eyes.

 

[eltouha]

^ spot on.

these "controversies" are a joke.

 

[250caddy]

These threads are always interesting to me. Here's my take on it. If they're made with the same materials, in the same molds, at the same factory by the same workers, then they're authentic enough for me. If you can put them beside an authorized pair and they look exactly the same, they're authentic, even if they are unauthorized.

If these grey market shoes ARE considered non-authentic, even if they are exactly the same, then using that logic, the ONLY WAY you could buy Jordans would be IN STORE. You wouldn't be able to buy shoes off eBay, hell you wouldn't even be able to buy shoes off HERE, without a receipt, and be 100% sure they came from a store, and not online, because how are you going to know if they're a grey market pair, or a store bought pair if they look and are made exactly the same? For me, not all releases even make it to Canada, plus I've missed some, so I have no choice BUT to use the internet to obtain pairs I want.

Also, what if these early release sites sold the same pairs on or after release day, and DIDN'T release them early? They're still going to be the same shoes, produced early, and look the same, but suddenly they're ok because they're for sale AFTER release day? No one would question them if they are made 100% authentic, release after release date, even if they don't have a receipt.

I get that people don't want to get ripped off and get fakes, but for me, if there aren't any tell tale signs and you can't tell the difference, that's good enough for me. It's about enjoying the shoes people, it ain't that serious.

 

[bip roberts]

These threads are always interesting to me. Here's my take on it. If they're made with the same materials, in the same molds, at the same factory by the same workers, then they're authentic enough for me. If you can put them beside an authorized pair and they look exactly the same, they're authentic, even if they are unauthorized.
If these grey market shoes ARE considered non-authentic, even if they are exactly the same, then using that logic, the ONLY WAY you could buy Jordans would be IN STORE. You wouldn't be able to buy shoes off eBay, hell you wouldn't even be able to buy shoes off HERE, without a receipt, and be 100% sure they came from a store, and not online, because how are you going to know if they're a grey market pair, or a store bought pair if they look and are made exactly the same? For me, not all releases even make it to Canada, plus I've missed some, so I have no choice BUT to use the internet to obtain pairs I want.
Also, what if these early release sites sold the same pairs on or after release day, and DIDN'T release them early? They're still going to be the same shoes, produced early, and look the same, but suddenly they're ok because they're for sale AFTER release day? No one would question them if they are made 100% authentic, release after release date, even if they don't have a receipt.
I get that people don't want to get ripped off and get fakes, but for me, if there aren't any tell tale signs and you can't tell the difference, that's good enough for me. It's about enjoying the shoes people, it ain't that serious.

What the hell is "authentic enough" mean?

Words have meanings, folks.

Being authentic enough is a fundamental impossibility; it's like being half-pregnant.

These shoes being "authentic" is like Olive Garden boasting "authentic" Italian cuisine. ...Hey, they use sauce, we use sauce.

And, as far as not being able to buy shoes of Ebay - well, if you don't know where the person got their shoes, you are taking a risk. ...You've never sold a shoe where the person had asked you if you have a receipt? ...It doesn't have to be a deal-breaker, but that's probably best practice, if possible.

But, to me, none of this is a problem anyway because I don't buy from these sites, nor am I in the secondary market for releases from the era when this became popular. But, if that's what you are looking for, then you are taking some degree of risk. sure.