- 5,176
- 10
im sorry but dude F'ed his baby mama....aint no coming back from that...
- 25,066
- 23,802
Did you read anything I wrote?
If anything, that *$@! just makes it look like Jay was even more on NaS' %%#+.
Like the only reason he %$**$* her was because she was NaS' chick
What kind of !*$#! made *$@! is that?
There are stories about NaS/Beyonce, but I don't want to turn this into Salon talk or some *$@!
cb94
Banned
- 1,192
- 13
Originally Posted by SoHi 23
Did you read anything I wrote?
If anything, that *$@! just makes it look like Jay was even more on NaS' %%#+.
Like the only reason he %$**$* her was because she was NaS' chick
What kind of !*$#! made *$@! is that?
There are stories about NaS/Beyonce, but I don't want to turn this into Salon talk or some *$@!/
- 25,066
- 23,802
Ait mute that point then.
He $++#@* his baby moma is a good way to try and not refute anything I posted though.
I can see how it would hurt if Carmen was NaS' wife or something, but y'all gunna use I $++#@* your baby's mama as your triumph card?
He $++#@* his baby moma is a good way to try and not refute anything I posted though.
I can see how it would hurt if Carmen was NaS' wife or something, but y'all gunna use I $++#@* your baby's mama as your triumph card?
cb94
Banned
- 1,192
- 13
"I had my way with the other half of what went into creating your genetic legacy and told the whole world" may not be trrump, but it's King ofspades if nothing else.
- 18,903
- 1,184
here you go....
I don't know ifanyone's actually going to read all of this. As usual, I kind of got carried away. It took me a couple days of writing in my limitted spare time to putthis post together. If it helps resolve this debate or if it means I never have to talk about this battle on this board again, it'll be worthit.
The first thing about this battle that we have to keep in mind is that there's a lot of cases where artists are making claims and you have to filter outthe %+!%#%#+ and figure out who to believe. For me, that choice was easy as I think Jay is definitely more believable than Nas. First, Nas' music hasalways been loaded with factual inaccuracies that "Ether" certainly highlighted, be it calling Jay 36, saying Rockerfeller died of AIDS, etc. Also,numerous people, including Jay and Cormega, who was from Nas' hood and does have street cred there, claim that Nas lies about his life in his rhymes.Finally, other people, namely Large Professor, have come forward and confirmed Jay things Jay says in his rhymes. All those things combined make it more easyfor me to believe Jay than Nas.
That being said, here's my breakdown of all of the disses involved in the battle. I'll run through them in relatively chronological order. As a result,I'll start with "Stillmatic" by Nas. Some say this was released after "Takeover" as Nas' first official response. As I understoodthe order of events, Nas was kicking this freestyle at shows and that's what sparked Jay's response on "Takeover". All in all, I'd saythis was Nas' best diss. Here are the lyrics that are relevant and my response to them:
STILLMATIC by Nas
Rip the Freeway, shoot through Memphis with Money Bags
Stop in Philly, order cheese steaks and eat Beans fast
Nothing incredible about this, but it's reasonably effective. What it does though, is it invites the rest of The Roc into the battle. Nas can'tcomplain about Jay's squad going at him if he calls them out. Furthermore, this is the first of many times Nas threatens Jay and/or The Roc. That will beimportant later.
And bring it back up top, remove the fake king of New York
You show off, I count off when you sample my voice
This is where Nas claims to be cashing in on Jay's use of his sample.
I rule you, before, you used to rap like the Fu-Shnickens
Nas designed your Blueprint, who you kidding?
Probably Nas' best line in the whole battle. He definitely has a point here, though Jay's style and Nas' style are clearly opposite, so there'sno way Nas can claim Jay bit his style of music. Furthermore, if you look at the timeline of things, Nas came out first with pure street hip hop. Then, whenJay started blowing up, Nas started making the odd party/club track like "You Owe Me", for example. If you ask me, you could make a better case forNas following Jay than for Jay following Nas.
Is he H to the Izzo, M to the Izzo?
For shizzle you phony, the rapping version of Sisqo
The "fo shizzle" part is okay, but he ruins that by throwing in a random gay diss.
And that's for certain, you clone me, your wack clothes line
I'd rather wear Sean John....
This is clear jealousy on Nas' part. Nas has talked about his clothing line his entire career but could never get it off the ground. For him to criticizeJay's label, which did $80 mil in the first 18 months and is reportedly doing $500 mill a year in sales now, is a little ridiculous.
.....you bore me with your fake coke rhymes
And those times, they never took place, you liar
UN was your first court case, you had no priors
You master fabricated stories of streets and sound slick
Have you surrounded, you and the @!!@#@$ you down with
While they riding Nas, trying to boost their careers
Nas claiming Jay is fake, that he wasn't a coke dealer and all of that. Not much analysis is needed here. Without examples or proof though, these are justunfounded claims.
TAKEOVER by Jay-Z
This is the first Jay diss I'm aware of. Just of note, there is one verse about Nas in this song. Once again, the relevant lyrics and my analysis.
I know you missin all the - FAAAAAAAME!
But along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your frame
+#$%$; you a - LAAAAAAAME!
First, I'd like to say that I thought that the vocal samples used here are really creative. That's not really that important though because I'vedecided to discuss this purely on a lyrical level right now. Idle threat by Jay but done creatively, saying that he'll make Nas famous by making him amartyr in this battle.
Youse the *## model for Karl Kani/Esco ads
Response to Nas' gay reference and reference to Roc-A-Wear in the above diss. Jay's basically saying in one bar, you're calling me gay and sayingmy clothing line is weak but you're the one without a clothing line making money by modelling like a *## for someone else's label.
Went from, Nasty Nas to Esco's trash
Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage
Fell from top ten to not mentioned at all
to your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally" verse better than yours
Matter fact you had the worst flow on the whole !%**$# song
but I know - the sun don't shine, then son don't shine
That's why your - LAAAAAAAME! - career come to a end
First mention by Jay about Nas falling off. He aknowledges that Nas was good by offers "Oochie Wally" as proof that he's falling off, and he doeshave a point. Nas' verse was nothing special on that song and he certainly didn't outshine the much less skilled Bravehearts.
There's only so long fake thugs can pretend
+#$%$; you ain't live it you witnessed it from your folks pad
You scribbled in your notepad and created your life
I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor
(Me, that's who!) Then I heard your album bout your tec on the dresser
Here's Jay claiming Nas is fake. His claims match with those made by Cormega. To back his claims up, he offers an example as proof - that he showed Nas hisfirst Tech - and his claim was backed up by Large Professor.
So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song
And you ain't get a coin +#$%$ you was gettin +%@#+% and
I know who I paid God, Serchlite Publishing
Responds to Nas' claim that he got rich off of Jay's use of the 'dead presidents' sample. Jay points out that Nas didn't own his publishingon Illmatic and thus he saw no money from Jay's use of that sample, Serchlite, the publishing company, did.
Use your - BRAAAAAAAIN! You said you been in this ten
I've been in it five - smarten up Nas
Four albums in ten years +#$%$? I can divide
That's one every let's say two, two of them ++%%% was due
One was - NAHHH, the other was "Illmatic"
That's a one hot album every ten year average
This all comes down to opinion, and Jay's stating his. I happen to agree that Nas only did have one really hot album at this point. It Was Written waspretty good, but definitely a few notches below Illmatic callibre. I Am was worse and Nastramdamus was marginal at best. At this point in his career, Nas wassteadily deteriorating. Even Nas fans, like myself for example, can see that clearly.
And that's so - LAAAAAAAME! +#$%$ switch up your flow
Your $%+% is garbage, but you try and kick knowledge?
For the most part, I agree that Nas never switches his flow, especially until recently. The kicking knowledge line is nothing too special.
(Get the !++! outta here) You #+$!%% gon' learn to respect the king
Don't be the next contestant on that Summer Jam screen
Because you know who (who) did you know what (what)
with you know who (yeah) but just keep that between me and you for now
Nice little bit of foreshadowing by Jay. Builds anticipation.
ETHER by Nas
Before breaking the lyrics down, I was really surprised that Nas put "Ether" as the second track on the album. That's the same position Jay put"Takeover" in. It's a minor thing, but it's hard for Nas to claim Jay's following his blueprint when he's doing stuff like that. Onto the lyrics:
Brace yourself for the main event
Y'all impatiently waitin
It's like an AIDS test, what's the results?
AIDS test line is pretty hot, but it's not really a diss.
Not positive, who's the best? Pac, Nas and Big
Ain't no best, East, West, North, South, flossed out, greedy
I guess Nas forgot he referred to himself as the "Ice King" on the Stillmatic diss track. Funny how he just kind of ignores that stuff when it'sconvenient.
I embrace y'all with napalm
Blows up, no guts, left chest, face gone
Alright line, however, napalm is not an explosive, it's an incediary. Here's an example of an inaccuracy in Nas' lyrics.
How could Nas be garbage?
Semi-autos at your cartilege
Burner at the side of your dome, come outta my throne
Idle threat by Nas. Important to note for later.
I got this, locked since '9-1
I am the truest, name a rapper that I ain't influenced
Gave y'all chapters but now I keep my eyes on the Judas
With Hawaiin Sophie fame, kept my name in his music
This whole section is ridiculous. First of all, Nas had nothing locked in 91 except maybe some poppin' and lockin' since those were his breakdancingdays. Don't get me wrong, he was making music, but other than his hot verse on "Live At The Barbecue" from Breaking Atoms, he didn't doanything until Illmatic dropped. Yes, he has been influential, but no more than Jay has. The "Hawaiian Sophie" reference is probably the dumbestthing he ever said. Jay is not famous because of "Hawaiian Sophie". That song was a dud. He blew up off his own music.
I've been +%@#+% over, left for dead, dissed and fogotten
Luck ran out, they hoped that I'd be gone, stiff and rotten
Y'all just piss on me, $%+% on me, spit on my grave (uh)
Talk about me, laugh behind my back but in my face
Y'all some well wishin (*#!%++!), friendly actin envy hidin snakes
Nas getting emotional. I really think he was playing on his underdog role here, trying to gain some sympathy. No one was pissing on Nas. He was losing fansbecause he was making poor music. If people thought he was done with, it's only because he took so long to respond.
With your hands out for my money, man, how much can I take?
Another luicrous claim by Nas. Jay is way richer than he is. No one had their hands in his pockets. Beanie Sigel is probably richer than him. Cam'ron'sprobably richer than him. Why would they be out for his money? This is a very different Nas than the one who was previously claiming he was cashing in onJay's music.
When these streets keep callin, heard it when I was sleep
That this Gay-Z and Cockafella Records wanted beef
Immature, grade school playground callibre diss by Nas. I really thought he was capable of something better than this I remember hearing this for the firsttime and thinking "you've got to be kidding".
Started cockin up my weapon, slowly loadin up this ammo
To explode it on a camel, and his soldiers, I can handle
Another threat of violence.
This for dolo and his manuscript just sound stupid
When KRS already made an album called "Blueprint"
Not entirely correct. BDP made an album called Ghetto Music: The Blueprint For Hip Hop. One word matches. Do I really have to point out how many people havealbums called I Am or that contain the word Written in it?
First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big
#*!! suckin lips, whyn't you let the late, great veteran live
Jay never said that he was better than BIG. His exact words were "If I ain't better than BIG, I'm the closest one". He's saying that ifpeople don't think he's better than then no one is because BIG's the greatest of all time. All he's saying is that he's the only person inBIG's league. Nas throws in another gay diss. At this point, he's really gong overboard on the gay disses.
Y'all $@+%!# deal with emotions like *#!%++!
What's sad is I love you 'cause you're my brother
You traded your soul for riches
My child, I've watched you grow up to be famous
And now I smile like a proud dad, watchin his only son that made it
I don't agree that Jay traded his soul for riches. He always stayed consistent with the music he was making. Either way, Nas has no grounds to complain ashe did the same thing, only he wasn't as successful.
You seem to be only concerned with dissin women
Were you abused as a child, scared to smile, they called you ugly?
It's a little ironic Nas would spit this line, especially after we'd later find that his girl cheated on him with Jay.
Well life is harsh, hug me, don't reject me
or make records to disrespect me, blatant or indirectly
In '88 you was gettin chased through your buildin
Callin my crib and I ain't even give you my numbers
In '88, Nas was 15. We all know he didn't have a crib and I highly doubt Jay was calling up Nas' momma's house. Plus it's not like Nas hadit like that where Jay would be running to him for protection. Lastly, I'm quite certain Nas and Jay didn't even know each other at this point.
All I did was gave you a style for you to run with
Smilin in my face, glad to break bread with the god
Which style would this be Nas? The one where he sold his soul for riches? Jay only ran with one style.
Wearin Jaz chains, no tecs, no cash, no cars
No jail bars Jigga, no pies, no cakes
Just Hawaiian shirts, hangin with little Chase
Sure, Jay looked ridiculous in the Jaz days, but that's what people wore back then. I guess Nas was mixing it up by making fun of what Jay looked likeyears ago so that he wouldn't saturate his song talking about Jay's appearance.
You a fan, a phony, a fake, a +#%%+, a Stan
I still whip your @!%, you thirty-six in a karate class
You Tae-bo $+!, tryna' work it out, you tryna' get brolic?
Yet another threat of violence. Furthermore, this song was released 4 years ago. Jay still isn't 36. The Tae Bo line is funny, but marred by inaccuraciesand idle threats.
Ask me if I'm tryna' kick knowledge
Nah, I'm tryna' kick the $%+% you need to learn though
That ether, that $%+% that make your soul burn slow
People may be wowed by this line, but what exactly is Nas saying here? His music makes your soul burn slow? Ether doesn't burn either. It puts you tosleep. I think this is an example of putting words together that sound nice but not really saying anything of much substance.
Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?
Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy
I see Nas' point, but there are big differences between Dame and Puff. First, Dame is strictly a businessman. Secondly, Jay isn't exactly BIG sincehe's an equal partner. Also, dissing Dame is pretty pathetic since he can't respond on record. All things considered though, Dame had the last laughsince he pulled strings to !++! up Nas' Summer Jam show.
Rockefeller died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter
And that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?
No, Rockefeller didn't die of AIDS. He died 20 years before AIDS even existed. Now, before people come in responding with "the line's age notAIDS", what kind of a diss is that? Rockefeller died of age? Big deal. Hell, good for him. How is that insulting? The line is not age, it's AIDS. Nasjust +%@#+% up. Live with it.
Put it together, I rock @#!%, y'all rock fellas
And now y'all try to take my spot, fellas?
Philly's hot rock fellas, put you in a dry spot, fellas
In a pine box with nine shots from my glock, fellas
Another round of gay jokes and threats.
Foxy got you hot 'cause you kept your face in her @++@
What you think, you gettin girls now 'cause of your looks?
Decent line, except dissing him about getting caught up over Foxy Brown isn't too insulting. I'd do the same thing. The problem with this diss thoughis it undermines his argument. First, by saying Jay got twisted over Fox, Nas is admitting Jay isn't always disrespectful to women. Secondly, by suggestingJay gets girls because of his money, it conflicts with Nas' comment about Jay being out for his money.
Ne-gro please
You no mustache havin, with whiskers like a rat
Compared to Beans you wack
Insulting his looks. How can you do that while calling someone gay repeatedly?
And your man stabbed Un and made you take the blame
Un denied this. He said that what was said happened, happened. Only it wasn't about bootlegging, it was a publicity stunt to sell records.
You @!%, went from Jaz to hangin with Kane, to Irv, to Big
Nas has switched up his alliances many times as well. Hell, isn't this the same time he made himself a member of Murder Inc?
And, Eminem murdered you on your own $%+%
This is how Nas responds to "Your bodyguard's Oochie Wallys verse better than yours"? Without even mentioning the fact that the song wasoriginally Em's, you've got to come up with something better than that. Getting outshined by Eminem, and in this case, that's questionable, isnothing like getting outshined by your bodyguard. Jay's original diss trumps this one for sure.
You a #*!!-ridin %%#+@%, you love the attention
Queens $@+%!# run you $@+%!#, ask Russell Simmons
Well, Russell and Def Jam had no say in The Roc's day-to-day operations at this time. Furthermore, if Queens $@+%!# run Jay, then Japanese people run Nas,since the head of Sony is Japanese.
Shaun Carter to Jay-Z, damnyou on Jaz #*!!
Jaz and Jay weren't even friends at this time. Plus, Jaz had been a failure in the hip hop game at this point. There's no reason for Jay to be onJaz's #*!!.
How much of Biggie's rhymes is gon' come out your fat lips?
Wanted to be on every last one of my classics
You pop $%+%, apologize, +#$%$, just ask Kiss
Best executed disses by Nas on this record. Too bad he saved them for the bridge. This is an example of how the song was constructed poorly. Lyrically, I thinkit would have been more effective if he sequenced his disses better. If you're going to do the gay jokes, do that and leave it alone. Then make your dissesabout Jay getting girls because of money or whatever. One thing at a time. When he keeps coming back to the gay lines it seems like he's using it as acrutch, like he was nothing else to say and that's all he can think of. You can say he's building to a crescendo, like it's a brilliant concept,but I'm not buying that. Jay did the same thing on Takeover, finishing strong with "don't be the next contestent on the Summer Jam screen".You always want to finish strong in a diss. That's not a concept, that's common sense. I think some people are being more creative in analyzing themusic than Nas was in making it. Saving your best disses for the bridge is creative, but in my opinion, less effective because it downplays their importance.
SUPER UGLY by Jay-Z
But really I don't need the heat
Your heart pump project Kool Aid you sweet +#$%$
I don't got a 2 way you gays
This is not beef this is rap homey, I don't have a scratch on me
You feel Jay soft rip Jay off
Damn I'm only worth over a hundred million
Look I got beef with like a hundred children
$@+%!# with pink suits, tryin to get cute
You a little outta line homey, don't let the nine hold me
Put you out your mind homey, $%+% just rhyme homey
Kick your little lies I kick my real facts
Like you sneakin out the back of the source sound lab
Huh, we wasn't chasin you, we had a tapin too
We came through to do our one two thing
It wasn't a Roc-A-Fella come through thing
Cause if it was on like that $@+%!# would come through Queens
With Queens $@+%!# you know how I do
Look, I got more shooters in Queensbridge than you
$@+%!# will tie you up on the colliseum roof
And open beer bottles off the boy chipped tooth, look here
This is a great verse because it accomplishes a lot. First, it denies that Jay two-wayed Kiss and calls out Nas for his lying. He also makes the claim that Nasis not as tough as his talking would suggest. He offers as proof of this claim a recount of an event where Nas was recording, heard Jay and The Roc were in thebuilding and he snuck out the back door, even though Jay wasn't coming for him. He also wisely points out that if Nas is as tough as he claims to be, whydoesn't he rob Jay himself? This is particularly effective because when Nas was on the radio, he was telling people to snatch Jay's chain.
Jay also makes it clear that to him, this is a rap battle, not beef, so talking about taking it to the streets is taking it too personally. However, if it didgo to that level, Jay claims to have more strength in Nas' hood than Nas does. There's no way to substiate this claim as an outsider, however the factthat Nas' hood torched his car does suggest that he isn't as loved in his hood as he claims to be. The fact that Nas beefs with every rapper out of theQB also suggests this.
Listen, I'm the J, the A to the !++! this broad
+#$%$ never sold aspirin how you Escobar?
Attacks Nas' use of the name "Escobar" after South American drug kingpin Pablo Escobar in an attempt to show that he's fake.
Had to buy your chain back last time you got robbed
The nerve of this coward +#$%$ oh my god
And no rap rumors and innuendos
I bring em to ya live lift up your windows
Let the public peek in to your dirty laundry
Y'all don't wan't me to continue Hov!
Cements home the fact that Nas isn't the street dude he claims to be by pointing out that not only did he get jacked but he had to buy the chain backbecause he couldn't have it taken back.
Me and the boy AI got more in common
Than just ballin and rhymin get it, more in Carmen
I came in your bentley backseat, skeeted in your jeep
Left condoms on your baby seat
Yeah +#$%$ the gloves is off, the love is done
It's whatever, whenever, however +#$%$ one
Here, Jay plays his ace, being that the mother of Nas' child cheated on him with Jay. That's a pretty big card, if you ask me. There isn't anythingmore insulting than that. Also, the "left condoms on your baby seat" line is a really effective juxtaposition, suggesting that Nas should have worn arubber instead of having a baby with Carmen. Disses like that hit to hurt. $%+% like that makes you question the kind of daughter you have by a woman like her.
And since you infatuated with sayin that gay $%+%
Guess you was kissin my #*!! when you was kissin that @%*%+
Jay counters Nas's gay claims by saying that Nas was indirectly kissing Jay's #*!! when he was kissing Carmen because she sucked him off. Personally, Ididn't really like this diss that much. I thought it missed it's mark, especially since it kind of works both ways, since Nas was boning Carm too.
Nasty $%+%, you though I was bonin Vanette
You callin Carm a hundred times I was bonin her neck
You got a baby by the broad you can't disown her yet
When does your lies end? When does the truth begins?
When does reality set in or does it not matter?
Gotta hurt I'm your baby mama's favorite rapper
And ask your current girl, she knows what's up
Holla at a real +#$%$, Jigga (I don't give a !++!)
THis is an interesting end. It's obviously something Nas can understand a little clearer. I don't know the history with Vanette. Perhaps that'sNas' "current" girl at the time. Who knows. It seems to elude that there's something going on with Jay and Nas' "current" girl,especially when said over the "Bad Intentions" beat with the Knock-turn'al vocals, "All I really know is your ho wants to be with me"left in. Since I don't know what the inside story is, I can't really give Jay any merit for it, though.
The timeline gets a little hazy at this point. But I'm pretty sure what happened next was Hot 97 does their poll based on "Ether" and "SuperUgly" only and Nas was awarded the victory by a slim margin. Jay did his interview then goes on vacation so he's MIA for a little bit. This is whenNas goes crazy and starts talking all kinds of $%+% about a variety of people. State Property did some freestyles dissing Nas and D-Block. The Powerhouse thingwent down around this time, as did the whole Summer Jam thing where Nas was going to lynch Jay-Z butDame Dash put some pressure on Hot 97 to prevent that from happening. Nas then started dissing the radio station complaining they likedJay-Z better. Jay then comes back from vacation and responds to what's been going on when he was away andkicks a freestyle.
HOT 97 FREESTYLE by Jay-Z
When y'all was runnin' your mouth complain' about Summer Jam/
I was in flip flops in the South of France/
See how it flip flops for the #1 station for hip hop and R&B/
You thought Summer Jam was starrin' you? It was starrin' me/
Even in my absence my presence is felt/
I gotta tell you I'm the king dog, if nothing else/
I'm on another continent, you still ain't content/
I'm in the Mediterranean, you still ain't been/
Explain to me why I want to be you again/
You on the radio cryin' I'm learning swim/
I thought this was a great diss. It kind of shows how much power and influence Jay-Z hasthat even when he's on the other side of the world, and he's still pulling strings and stealing Nas' shine. It also puts to rest Nas' claimsthat Jay wants to be him by showing the life he lives compared to the life Nas lives. Very effective diss. After this, Nas leaves Murder Inc.
BLUEPRINT 2 by Jay-Z
Y'all fell into the booby trap
I set the trap just to see dude react, and now
And now you'se can't leave
You opened the door god, I'm at you annually
This is an interesting little bit just kind of explaining of Jay's strategy. Since this song is very much a reflection of his take on the battle thus far.The "openned the door" line is sick. For those that don't know, it's a reference to "A Bronx Tale", which is also where "Nowyou'se can't leave" is from. You have to see the movie to get the symbolism.
And I'm sorry Miss Rosie Perez
I call a spade a spade, it just is what it is
But you can't give cred to anything dude says
Same dude to give you ice and you owe him some head
(Shortyyyy!) It's time to wake up the dead
You sound a little naive in them articles that I read
Can't y'all, see that he's fake, the rap version of TD jakes
Prophesizing on your CDs and tapes
Again, I'm impressed with Jay's lyricism here. As anyone can figure out, he's calling Nas fake, likening him to T.D. Jakes, an Tele-evangelist.Those are the preachers you see on TV claiming they can save you if you send them some money. Basically, they're fake religious people trying to profitfrom their preaching.
Won't break you a crumb of the little bit that he makes
And this is with whom you want to place your faith?
I put dollars on mine, ask Columbine
When the Twin Towers dropped, I was the first in line
Donating proceeds off every ticket sold
When I was out on the road, that's how you judge Hov, no?
Ain't I supposed to be absorbed myself?
Every time there's a tragedy, I'm the first one to help
They call me this misogynist, but they don't call me the dude
To take his dollars to give gifts at the projects
These dudes is all politics, depositing checks
they put in they pocket, all you get in return is a lot of lip
Here Jay makes the point that through his success, he's been able to do a lot of good work. People call him a sellout and all these other things but nevermention the fact that he's given millions of dollars to charity over the years and has never done it as a publicity stunt. Meanwhile, Nas who preachesabout the hood and how he's the Street's Disciple (Stillmatic Freestyle) doesn't give anything back to the hood.
And y'all buy the $%+%, caught up in the hype
Cause the +#$%$ wear a coofie, it don't mean that he bright
Cause you don't understand him, it don't mean that he nice
It just means you don't understand all the %+!%#%#+ that he write
Is it "Oochie Wally Wally" or is it "One Mic"?
Is it "Black Girl Lost" or shorty owe you for ice?
Exposing Nas' contradictory nature. How can Nas condemn Jay for making certain types of songs when he's doing the same thing, with the exception beinghe's not as successful at it. Here is where he really starts reaching out to the fans and trying to explain what he feels they're overlooking. I feelthat Jay is completely right on this. This is the same frustration I face with trying to understand how people think Nas won this battle. I do, however, agreethat he sounds a little desperate here.
I've been real all my life, they confuse it with conceit
Since I will not lose, they try to help him cheat
But I will not lose, for even in defeat
There's a valuable lesson learned, so it evens it up for me
A lot of people claim Jay's admitting defeat here, but if you listen to the whole song, that clearly isn't the case. The nex line states his position:
I get the spoils cause the victor is me (me, +#$%$)
You're an actor, you're not who you're depicted to be
The street dreamin, all y'all $@+%!# living through me
I gave you life when $@+%!# was forgetting you emcee
I'm a legend, you should take a picture with me
You should be happy to be in my presence, I should charge you a fee
I'm Big Dog, Glenn Rob, listen God you a flea
And the little homey Jungle is a garden to me
What's the problem B? You not as hard as me
+#$%$ hard as we, +#$%$ R O C, +#$%$
That's why they follow me, they feel my pain and my agony, +#$%$
I won't rest till you on one knee
You want war then it's war's gonna be, +#$%$
Until you on one knee, you want war then it's war's gonna be, +#$%$
Jay here is claiming that he's real and Nas isn't and because of this, Nas should be happy to be in his presence. I think Jay gets a little carriedaway here. The Jungle line is a pretty famous one, and rightfully so, it's a good line. Jay wavered a bit in the end of the diss, but this line helped himstay steady until the finish. Overall, I think it was a very effective diss because Jay stuck to the script. He didn't waiver and talk about a milliondifferent things. His whole purpose on this diss was to show that Nas is fake and I think he accomplished that well.
LAST REAL +#$%$ ALIVE by Nas
I don't really see the need to post the lyrics. It's not much of a diss. Nas says what he says and gives his opinion. I don't see how Jay wasflowing like Nas in '96. I also don't see how Jay sneak attacked him when Nas was the one throwing shots Jay's way first. Like I said though, Idon't know if I'd even really call this a diss track. Nas of course did take some shots at Jay here and there. That led to what I believe was the lastword spoken on the situation, Jay's freestyle In The Booth:
IN THE BOOTH FREESTYLE/PSA II by[/i] Jay-Z
That's why real $@+%!# respect me fake $@+%!# want beef/
Cause they know that's the only way we ever gon' speak/
We never gonna see eye to eye/
Your type of +#$%$ don't recognize it's all televised/
Not much to explain here. Nothing spectacular.
Mobstas out to not get in beef/
There's not business in it, it only brings police/
Wanksta want beef and they name in the streets/
Most times end up with their brain where they feet should go/
Here Jay's saying that real street people don't want beef because it only brings unwanted attention. Fake people want beef though because it makes themlook stronger in the streets. The fake ones usually get it in the end though when they can't back up their tough talk.
You should know if you're gonna do something/
And you go to radio we all know you're frontin'/
So I got to radio to let 'em know you frontin'/
Keep it real, you don't want nothin'/
Disses Nas for running up to the radio to talk $%+%. This supports statements Jay made during the beef saying that if this battle was beef like that, youwouldn't hear people tlaking on the radio.
They shootin? Nobody's dyin'/
Somebody better put somebody's body on somebody's iron/
Some time soon or somebody's lyin'/
I don't care for that $%+% you're shovellin'/
I ain't duckin' for nothin' cousin/
I'm too tall to act small/
Plus you know I've seen it all before
Again, just stating that Nas is lying on his records and that his threats of violence don't scare Jay because he's been in the streets when there'sbeen real beef.
Ok, so, like I said, I believe that's pretty much all of the relevant lyrics spit during the battle and my analysis of them all. Based on this breakdown, Ithink it's clear that Jay won. Some people have been arguing this from the perspective of how the battle effected each artist's career. People may saythat the beef resurrected Nas' career, and that may be true, but it certainly didn't hurt Jay's career. His last solo album greatly outsoldNas' most recent release. He had a successful tour, at least for him, and he's got one of the best positions avaiable in hip hop music. Nas experiencedsome success but his lack of success following Jay's retirement suggests that he needed Jay more than Jay needed him.
Furthermore, it seems to me that the most non-lyrical indicator of who won this battle has been looked over completely so far. Jay challenged Nas to a livebattle. Nas declined. To me, that's Nas throwing in the towel. How can someone refuse a live battle and still win the battle? That'spreposturous.
- 125
- 10
SoHi is a big nas fan so anything he says is biased
cb94
Banned
- 1,192
- 13
I'm a big nas fan too, that's why I hate the bias....
- 25,066
- 23,802
Everyone is bias man.
Read that +$$% that thagreatj posted.
His breakdown of Ether was hilarious.
Read that +$$% that thagreatj posted.
His breakdown of Ether was hilarious.
Shaun Carter to Jay-Z, damn you on Jaz #*!!
Jaz and Jay weren't even friends at this time. Plus, Jaz had been a failure in the hip hop game at this point. There's no reason for Jay to be on Jaz's #*!!.
Are y'all implying that everything I said is bias' $%#+%@@#?
Naw, I'm just saying my opinion of the entire "beef"
Y'all can say what you want, but I made my stance, and I supported it with more than enough evidence.
I'm a huge Jay fan, but I know I'm outmatched on Hov-Talk.
Edit: I just reread that joint.
If y'all think my !%@* was bias, what the hell did I just read?
Again, I'm impressed with Jay's lyricism here
Never once did I talk about how sick NaS' lyrics were or how dope Jay's flow was.
I stuck to facts, music(and how good you think it is) is all subjective.
Also alot of "facts" about NaS being wrong.
About the 91 thing and Nas not doing anything until Illmatic, Nas just dropped his Demo and he made Halftime(on the Zebrahead soundtrack) in 92.
...
If you're going to write some long $#% !%@* like that, at least back up your facts.
cb94
Banned
- 1,192
- 13
I do think you're biased.... but then again, every one who states an opinion is expressing some form of bias. We can agree to disagree and debate this 8years from now
bobbybrownpacks
Banned
- 607
- 10
and for the record.... ACCORDING TO CARMEN HERSELF...
hov smashed while Nass was tryin to patch things up.
whoa.
plus...hov > nas in all aspects
hov smashed while Nass was tryin to patch things up.
whoa.
plus...hov > nas in all aspects
- 684
- 10
Hov won when he hired Nas
- 2,656
- 11
8 years running and this topic still gets recycled.
jay won
jay won
- 2,657
- 12
I thought Biggie and Jay-Z were BOYS
http://www.xxlmag.com/online/?p=2477http://www.xxlmag.com/online/?p=2477http://www.xxlmag.com/online/?p=2477
According to this article, Jay and Biggie first met to record Brooklyn's finest.
I'm sure they were friends, but I don't think it was as deep as Jay made it out to be.
On "Hola Hovito"
if I ain't better than Big, I'm the closest one
First of all, how are you going to say that when you use his lyrics a lot.
Secondly how are you going to say that when Biggie is dead
Third, how the ##$* can you say that when you were supposed to be boys with Big?
REASON #3
Jay was obsessed with NaS
- 2,168
- 10
Thanks for finding that jthagreat
No doubt Jay won and Takeover >>>>>>>>>> Ether
No doubt Jay won and Takeover >>>>>>>>>> Ether
- 2,657
- 12
maybe in your bizzaro world....in the real world Nas knocked jay-z off mount olympus crashing down to earth.
its all about aim....sure jay-z had the better gun, but Nas shot jay-z SQUARE in the heart with ether....
- 2,168
- 10
Did you read ? Jay won the battle and the war.
@ Nas dodging
- 2,657
- 12
i'll admit that jay-z is in a better space then nas overall but in 2001, jay-z got him wit that ether and he lost.Originally Posted by MidEastBeast
Did you read ? Jay won the battle and the war.@ Nas dodging
i remember i went to clubs and they were PLAYING ether and cats were going nuts...it was like david beat goliath.
- 2,168
- 10
Yes, Ether was huge in NYC i'm not doubting that.. I saw it myself. It was huge because it was like you described, a "comeback" like david vsgoliath.
In reality it's a far weaker track than Takeover, and like you admitted, Jay is doing a lot better than Nas right now, both financially and musically.
Nas is still a better rapper, but he took an L here.
Also dudes keep talking about Jay sounding sad on the radio.. I got a magazine interview were Nas says "the first time I heard that I cried" (talkingabout Pac dissing him)
Call Ducktales and I'll post pics.
In reality it's a far weaker track than Takeover, and like you admitted, Jay is doing a lot better than Nas right now, both financially and musically.
Nas is still a better rapper, but he took an L here.
Also dudes keep talking about Jay sounding sad on the radio.. I got a magazine interview were Nas says "the first time I heard that I cried" (talkingabout Pac dissing him)
cb94
Banned
- 1,192
- 13
I mean really, honestly...at the end of the day, what did nas really win? I'm with this guy.Originally Posted by MidEastBeast
Yes, Ether was huge in NYC i'm not doubting that.. I saw it myself. It was huge because it was like you described, a "comeback" like david vs goliath.
In reality it's a far weaker track than Takeover, and like you admitted, Jay is doing a lot better than Nas right now, both financially and musically.
Nas is still a better EQUAL rapper, but he took an L here.
Also dudes keep talking about Jay sounding sad on the radio.. I got a magazine interview were Nas says "the first time I heard that I cried" (talking about Pac dissing him)Call Ducktales and I'll post pics.
- 8,369
- 1,480
hahaOriginally Posted by COOLnificent
have you took a look at your avy lately
- 2,657
- 12
i don't understand where nas "lost" because he clearly won...
cats wanna retroactively change the scoreboard of a L on jay-z...why? he ends up winning alot more later..why jay-z fans feel like they gotta be greedy?
cats wanna retroactively change the scoreboard of a L on jay-z...why? he ends up winning alot more later..why jay-z fans feel like they gotta be greedy?
- 18,903
- 1,184
Jay won...BUT Ether was Big Everywhere.
- 25,066
- 23,802
Originally Posted by Enlightened Thought
jay won
Damn, y'all sure convinced me.
That is neither here nor there, we're talking about when the battle was at it's prime.
2001, not 2009.
Nas says "the first time I heard that I cried" (talking about Pac dissing him)Call Ducktales and I'll post pics.
I don't really care about that. If this was a thread about Pac and Nas, then that would be valid.
I know for a fact that Pac and Nas squashed it and Pac agreed to take Nas out of "The 7 Day Theory", unfortunately we all know how that ended.
Pac and Nas never really had beef on this level.
Also, the reason I brang that up with Jay is because at that time, no one had ever heard Jay like that.
Jay was the king of everything at that time, to see him have a PUBLIC reaction like that speaks volumes.
...
It's funny to me.
First it's "Jay $!%@#+ NaS's baby moms so he won"
Then, it's "Jay signed NaS, so he won"
How about y'all have an intelligent conversation with me about what actually happened in 2001?
How about y'all don't just state your opinion and then just run away(like a typical NT Music forum response)
Where's the reasoning?
- 339
- 11
