ELECTION DAY 2008:........... Barack Obama, the next President of the United States of America

[thagreatj]

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Its not about the mess the Republicans have gotten us into. It is about who can get us out of this current mess, (which, frankly, isn't all that bad when you put it into historical perspective). These polls are showing that the American people are intelligent and capable of making good decisions, no matter how hard professors, celebrities and the media, try to affect us. Americans are showing that they can see the smart choice is McCain and not Obama. Specifically, not Obama.

Ok lets FORGET Iraq. Forget soaring HIGH ENERGY COSTS. Forget the Home Mortgage Crisis. Lets forget all the things that the Republicans did to put us in this mess so we can elect another Republican that will somehow save us even though the candidate voted in line with Bush and his Republican party 90% of the time.

Dumbest logic ever.

The use of force in Iraq was approved by almost every member of Congress. Guess what that means? Democrats voted to use force and go to war in Iraq.
High energy costs were caused by Bill Clinton vetoing the bill that would've allowed drilling in ANWAR.
The home martgage crisis was caused by private institutions.

voted on bad information. you cant be in a position of all knowing (cia, fbi, homeland security) and say iraq has this, they have that and me not believe you.If Bush was tellin the truth, the war was just (which is what most if not all of congress thought, thus voting for the war) turns out they lied.......so killthat noise. Patriot Act, printed at 3:45 am, over 300 pages, voted on at 11 am. no one read the S!!!

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by thagreatj

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Its not about the mess the Republicans have gotten us into. It is about who can get us out of this current mess, (which, frankly, isn't all that bad when you put it into historical perspective). These polls are showing that the American people are intelligent and capable of making good decisions, no matter how hard professors, celebrities and the media, try to affect us. Americans are showing that they can see the smart choice is McCain and not Obama. Specifically, not Obama.

Ok lets FORGET Iraq. Forget soaring HIGH ENERGY COSTS. Forget the Home Mortgage Crisis. Lets forget all the things that the Republicans did to put us in this mess so we can elect another Republican that will somehow save us even though the candidate voted in line with Bush and his Republican party 90% of the time.

Dumbest logic ever.

The use of force in Iraq was approved by almost every member of Congress. Guess what that means? Democrats voted to use force and go to war in Iraq.
High energy costs were caused by Bill Clinton vetoing the bill that would've allowed drilling in ANWAR.
The home martgage crisis was caused by private institutions.

voted on bad information. you cant be in a position of all knowing (cia, fbi, homeland security) and say iraq has this, they have that and me not believe you. If Bush was tellin the truth, the war was just (which is what most if not all of congress thought, thus voting for the war) turns out they lied.......so kill that noise. Patriot Act, printed at 3:45 am, over 300 pages, voted on at 11 am. no one read the S!!!

That's what INTELLIGENCE is for, to give you information. It isn't any secret that all forms of US Intelligence withheld info from each other before9/11.

But anywho, how can you fault Bush for "misleading" info if it was handed from US Intelligence?

 

[back1ntheday]

Originally Posted by FeelMode

Originally Posted by back1ntheday

Originally Posted by tylerdub

let's not belittle those that support an opposing candidate with the idea that somehow they are less intelligent and less capable of making good decisions, that's just ignorant

I disagree whole heartedly.

i was speaking in terms of his blatant references to those that support obama, if that was directed towards my comment. some make good decisionsbased on how it will affect their lives only (good meaning good for themselves and their families, doing what is good for their sake), and others care aboutthe utilitarian aspect of it as well - meaning the general well-being and who would do the "greatest good" as president . i'm sure their would besome that prosper with mccain in charge, so therefore it would be a good decision for them, just like there are with bush. but to the vast vajority of us whohave suffered under bush i would say that the facts are on the table, and if you blindly follow a candidate for trivial reasons and don't see the biggerpicture, and you don't really have a reason to vote the the way you do then it's not possible to make a good, informed, intelligent decision (and tothose people, call it hypocrisy if you want, but that is no way to go about choosing who you are voting for).

 

[kal ripped ken]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by thagreatj

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Its not about the mess the Republicans have gotten us into. It is about who can get us out of this current mess, (which, frankly, isn't all that bad when you put it into historical perspective). These polls are showing that the American people are intelligent and capable of making good decisions, no matter how hard professors, celebrities and the media, try to affect us. Americans are showing that they can see the smart choice is McCain and not Obama. Specifically, not Obama.

Ok lets FORGET Iraq. Forget soaring HIGH ENERGY COSTS. Forget the Home Mortgage Crisis. Lets forget all the things that the Republicans did to put us in this mess so we can elect another Republican that will somehow save us even though the candidate voted in line with Bush and his Republican party 90% of the time.

Dumbest logic ever.

The use of force in Iraq was approved by almost every member of Congress. Guess what that means? Democrats voted to use force and go to war in Iraq.
High energy costs were caused by Bill Clinton vetoing the bill that would've allowed drilling in ANWAR.
The home martgage crisis was caused by private institutions.

voted on bad information. you cant be in a position of all knowing (cia, fbi, homeland security) and say iraq has this, they have that and me not believe you. If Bush was tellin the truth, the war was just (which is what most if not all of congress thought, thus voting for the war) turns out they lied.......so kill that noise. Patriot Act, printed at 3:45 am, over 300 pages, voted on at 11 am. no one read the S!!!

That's what INTELLIGENCE is for, to give you information. It isn't any secret that all forms of US Intelligence withheld info from each other before 9/11.

But anywho, how can you fault Bush for "misleading" info if it was handed from US Intelligence?

US Intelligence offices are parts of the EXECUTIVE BRANCH! These were Bush's homeboys working in the CIA, FBI, NSA etc. HIS administration isresponsible for the war in Iraq, no matter which way you try to phrase it. Give up.

Jesus. Some people just don't have a clue

 

[thagreatj]

Fede DPT: im not sure if you are agreein with me or disagreeing.....we are talkin about the Iraq war, not 9/11.

 

[soleaddict34]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Forget soaring HIGH ENERGY COSTS. Forget the Home Mortgage Crisis.

These aren't the administrations fault.




you and tyler need to seriously do some research. Look up Phil Gramm and then tell us it wasn't the "administrations" fault.

a little excerpt for ya..

Banking Deregulation and the 2008 Mortgage Crisis
Later in his Senate career, Gramm spearheaded efforts to pass banking reform laws, including the landmark Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, which served to reduce governmentregulations in existence since the Great Depression separating banking, insurance and brokerage activities.

Years later, critics of Gramm point out that this same legislation may have been pivotal in encouraging the corporate practices that led to the 2008mortgage crises in America.[sup][5][/sup]

Between 1995 and 2000 Gramm, who was the chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and UrbanAffairs, received $1,000,914 in campaign contributions from the Securities & Investment industry.[sup][6][/sup]

Later, as lobbyist for Swiss bank UBS, Gramm pressured congress ease it's restrictions on predatory lending tactics by mortgage brokers. For hisefforts, Gramm received $750,000 from UBS in during a one year period starting in 2007.[sup][7][/sup].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Grammhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Gramm

 

[mebo03]

Originally Posted by Kal Ripped Ken

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by thagreatj

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Its not about the mess the Republicans have gotten us into. It is about who can get us out of this current mess, (which, frankly, isn't all that bad when you put it into historical perspective). These polls are showing that the American people are intelligent and capable of making good decisions, no matter how hard professors, celebrities and the media, try to affect us. Americans are showing that they can see the smart choice is McCain and not Obama. Specifically, not Obama.

Ok lets FORGET Iraq. Forget soaring HIGH ENERGY COSTS. Forget the Home Mortgage Crisis. Lets forget all the things that the Republicans did to put us in this mess so we can elect another Republican that will somehow save us even though the candidate voted in line with Bush and his Republican party 90% of the time.

Dumbest logic ever.

The use of force in Iraq was approved by almost every member of Congress. Guess what that means? Democrats voted to use force and go to war in Iraq.
High energy costs were caused by Bill Clinton vetoing the bill that would've allowed drilling in ANWAR.
The home martgage crisis was caused by private institutions.

voted on bad information. you cant be in a position of all knowing (cia, fbi, homeland security) and say iraq has this, they have that and me not believe you. If Bush was tellin the truth, the war was just (which is what most if not all of congress thought, thus voting for the war) turns out they lied.......so kill that noise. Patriot Act, printed at 3:45 am, over 300 pages, voted on at 11 am. no one read the S!!!

That's what INTELLIGENCE is for, to give you information. It isn't any secret that all forms of US Intelligence withheld info from each other before 9/11.

But anywho, how can you fault Bush for "misleading" info if it was handed from US Intelligence?

US Intelligence offices are parts of the EXECUTIVE BRANCH! These were Bush's homeboys working in the CIA, FBI, NSA etc. HIS administration is responsible for the war in Iraq, no matter which way you try to phrase it. Give up.

Jesus. Some people just don't have a clue

wait. i cant remember did Obama vote to go into Iraq?

 

[untitled]

lou dobbs is coming up after the hour...let's see what's he's gotta say.

 

[feelmode]

back1ntheday



statistically speaking, those who would benefit from McCain being in office are the VAST minority.




anyways, what i was disagreeing with was the line about people voting for McCain being less intelligent and not capable of making good decisions and thatthinking that way is "ignorant"



to that i say hogwash, because it has been my experience that many of the "red states" are by far more unintelligent and definitely aren'tcapable of making wise decisions. When you are in some of these states it becomes all to painfully obvious.

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Its not about the mess the Republicans have gotten us into. It is about who can get us out of this current mess, (which, frankly, isn't all that bad when you put it into historical perspective). These polls are showing that the American people are intelligent and capable of making good decisions, no matter how hard professors, celebrities and the media, try to affect us. Americans are showing that they can see the smart choice is McCain and not Obama. Specifically, not Obama.

Ok lets FORGET Iraq. Forget soaring HIGH ENERGY COSTS. Forget the Home Mortgage Crisis. Lets forget all the things that the Republicans did to put us in this mess so we can elect another Republican that will somehow save us even though the candidate voted in line with Bush and his Republican party 90% of the time.

Dumbest logic ever.

The use of force in Iraq was approved by almost every member of Congress. Guess what that means? Democrats voted to use force and go to war in Iraq.
High energy costs were caused by Bill Clinton vetoing the bill that would've allowed drilling in ANWAR.
The home martgage crisis was caused by private institutions.

Ok the only thing I can agree well not fully agree on is that Congress did vote for the use of force on October 11, 2002. Ournation was attacked only a year before Congress voted and Bush sold Iraq to Congress. Idiots in Congress including many Democrats sold out because midtermelections were happening and most did not want their mid term election opponents labeling em UNPATRIOTIC.

77-23 Senate votes means 23% of Senators did not approve
296-133 House votes means 31% of Representatives did not approve.
So NO not by almost every member.

Bill Clinton is to be blamed for gas prices costing 3.99 a gallon today? What a joke! What has Bush been doing the past 8 years including the years between2000 - 2006 when Republicans had a majority in Congress?

Mortgage crisis was not regulated by the government so YES it was the Bush administration's fault for stepping in too late. Why do you think Bush signed aHousing Bill this past July? He knew he had to finally step in and do things right. Bush didn't think about regulating during the crisis, he regulatedAFTER the crisis!

 

[tylerdub]

Originally Posted by Kal Ripped Ken

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by thagreatj

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Its not about the mess the Republicans have gotten us into. It is about who can get us out of this current mess, (which, frankly, isn't all that bad when you put it into historical perspective). These polls are showing that the American people are intelligent and capable of making good decisions, no matter how hard professors, celebrities and the media, try to affect us. Americans are showing that they can see the smart choice is McCain and not Obama. Specifically, not Obama.

Ok lets FORGET Iraq. Forget soaring HIGH ENERGY COSTS. Forget the Home Mortgage Crisis. Lets forget all the things that the Republicans did to put us in this mess so we can elect another Republican that will somehow save us even though the candidate voted in line with Bush and his Republican party 90% of the time.

Dumbest logic ever.

The use of force in Iraq was approved by almost every member of Congress. Guess what that means? Democrats voted to use force and go to war in Iraq.
High energy costs were caused by Bill Clinton vetoing the bill that would've allowed drilling in ANWAR.
The home martgage crisis was caused by private institutions.

voted on bad information. you cant be in a position of all knowing (cia, fbi, homeland security) and say iraq has this, they have that and me not believe you. If Bush was tellin the truth, the war was just (which is what most if not all of congress thought, thus voting for the war) turns out they lied.......so kill that noise. Patriot Act, printed at 3:45 am, over 300 pages, voted on at 11 am. no one read the S!!!

That's what INTELLIGENCE is for, to give you information. It isn't any secret that all forms of US Intelligence withheld info from each other before 9/11.

But anywho, how can you fault Bush for "misleading" info if it was handed from US Intelligence?

US Intelligence offices are parts of the EXECUTIVE BRANCH! These were Bush's homeboys working in the CIA, FBI, NSA etc. HIS administration is responsible for the war in Iraq, no matter which way you try to phrase it. Give up.

Jesus. Some people just don't have a clue

Yes these are his boys. I take it you have never gotten bad info from someone who you work with, live with, are related to or anyone else. British intelligencealso showed very similar information as our boys had gathered.
Bush made a decision and he stuck by it. We stayed in Iraq (regardless of how we got there) and now Gen. Petraeus is talking about us being able to pull troopsout of Baghdad next summer. If we had used the Democrats idea we wouldve been out of there a couple years ago and that wouldve probably caused massive genocideand civil war. In fact that is something that Obama has supported, he said that even though the troop surge is working he wouldnt have done it. SMH.

 

[cmoweb]

If you would STILL vote for McCain, after what George 'not so bad' Bush, nothing anyone is going to say would change your mind. I just pray thatyou're in the minority...

On a sidenote, do you guys think that Obama is more likely to live through his first term than McCain (for different reasons obviously)?

 

[tylerdub]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by tylerdub

Its not about the mess the Republicans have gotten us into. It is about who can get us out of this current mess, (which, frankly, isn't all that bad when you put it into historical perspective). These polls are showing that the American people are intelligent and capable of making good decisions, no matter how hard professors, celebrities and the media, try to affect us. Americans are showing that they can see the smart choice is McCain and not Obama. Specifically, not Obama.

Ok lets FORGET Iraq. Forget soaring HIGH ENERGY COSTS. Forget the Home Mortgage Crisis. Lets forget all the things that the Republicans did to put us in this mess so we can elect another Republican that will somehow save us even though the candidate voted in line with Bush and his Republican party 90% of the time.

Dumbest logic ever.

The use of force in Iraq was approved by almost every member of Congress. Guess what that means? Democrats voted to use force and go to war in Iraq.
High energy costs were caused by Bill Clinton vetoing the bill that would've allowed drilling in ANWAR.
The home martgage crisis was caused by private institutions.

Ok the only thing I can agree well not fully agree on is that Congress did vote for the use of force on October 11, 2002. Our nation was attacked only a year before Congress voted and Bush sold Iraq to Congress. Idiots in Congress including many Democrats sold out because midterm elections were happening and most did not want their mid term election opponents labeling em UNPATRIOTIC.

77-23 Senate votes means 23% of Senators did not approve
296-133 House votes means 31% of Representatives did not approve.
So NO not by almost every member.

Bill Clinton is to be blamed for gas prices costing 3.99 a gallon today? What a joke! What has Bush been doing the past 8 years including the years between 2000 - 2006 when Republicans had a majority in Congress?

Mortgage crisis was not regulated by the government so YES it was the Bush administration's fault for stepping in too late. Why do you think Bush signed a Housing Bill this past July? He knew he had to finally step in and do things right. Bush didn't think about regulating during the crisis, he regulated AFTER the crisis!

Not only should Bill be blamed, so should George Bush Sr. He enacted a ban on offshore oil drilling. And yes i Blame W and the republicancontrolled Congress for sitting on their hands. They had been given control and they shouldve have used it to get some things done for our country. Why do youthink the Republicans lost control of Congress? Because they did squat! Much like the current Democrat held Congress.

The mortgage crisis has been caused by sub prime lending. Adjustable Rate Mortgages are the prime example of this. The adjustable Rate Mortgage was put intoeffect in 1982. Every president since 1982 has had a shot at changing the mortgage industry. Why is Bush being blamed because crap hit the fan during hispresidency? Clinton, Bush Sr. etc... should have all stepped in and changed the lending industry.

 

[back1ntheday]

Originally Posted by FeelMode

back1ntheday
statistically speaking, those who would benefit from McCain being in office are the VAST minority.
anyways, what i was disagreeing with was the line about people voting for McCain being less intelligent and not capable of making good decisions and that thinking that way is "ignorant"
to that i say hogwash, because it has been my experience that many of the "red states" are by far more unintelligent and definitely aren't capable of making wise decisions. When you are in some of these states it becomes all to painfully obvious.

maybe a poor choice of words, but i just like to stay away from generalizations (unlike the person i was responding to in the first place) becauseobviously there are people that support mccain that i would in no way consider less intelligent or incapable (that goes without saying though), that is what iwas trying to convey

 

[tbone95860]

*****LATEST POLLS***** (come out tomorrow)

National

National	ABC News/Wash Post	McCain 49, Obama 47	McCain +2
National	CBS News	McCain 46, Obama 44	McCain +2

STATE Polls (since I know it's all about the Electoral College &that's what you guys have been saying to....)
Good poll #'s for McCain.....

Michigan

PPP (D)

Obama 47, McCain 46

Obama +1

Washington	SurveyUSA	Obama 49, McCain 45	Obama +4
Virginia	SurveyUSA	McCain 49, Obama 47	McCain +2

Virginia

Rasmussen

McCain 49, Obama 47

McCain +2

Pennsylvania	Rasmussen	Obama 47, McCain 45	Obama +2
Ohio	Rasmussen	McCain 51, Obama 44	McCain +7

Michigan = Obama should be up more & has been in past polls. If McCain wins Michigan, Obama doesn't win this election.
Washington = Obama should be up more & has been in past polls by double digits.
Virginia = obvioius answer, McCain leading
Pennsylvania = Obama should be up more & has been in past polls. Like Michigan, if McCain wins PA, Obama doesn't win this election.
Ohio = the best poll of the bunch for McCain. McCain has to have Ohio come November to have a chance at winning realistically.

Good poll #'s for Obama....

Florida

Rasmussen

McCain 48, Obama 48

Tie

Colorado

Rasmussen

Obama 49, McCain 46

Obama +3

Florida = McCain should be winning by 2+%
Colorado = toss-up state with Obama now leading

State/Pollster WAS          NOW            SWINGWA  Rasmussen  Obama  +12   Obama  +4      McCain +8OH  Rasmussen  McCain +5    McCain +7      McCain +2MI  PPP        Obama  +3    Obama  +1      McCain +2PA  Rasmussen  Obama  +3    Obama  +2      McCain +1VA  Rasmussen  McCain +1    McCain +2      McCain +1VA  SurveyUSA  McCain +1    McCain +2      McCain +1FL  Rasmussen  McCain +2    TIE            Obama  +2CO  Rasmussen  McCain +1    Obama  +3      Obama  +4

 

[kneesh]

If McCain is up 2+ that means nothing , because it's always +- 3 .

 

[718stylez]

tylerdub

don't try to make it seem like Bush was handed faulty info and didn't know. What do you think the whole Valerie Plaime / Joe Wilson thing was about.

Joe Wilson called ducktales on George W. Bush's case for war in Iraq long before in a widely publicized op-ed piece, 'What I Didn't Find InAfrica', who patently said that Saddam Hussein was not trying to buy uranium in Niger, rendering Bush's rhetoric that Saddam had nukes futile.

Instead of entertaining Wilson's assertion, he outted his wife in an attempt to discredit him.

He blew her cover.

Valerie Plame's job was to track down nuclear weapons that had gone missing.

And your president outed her because he didn't want to listen to the truth.

so please, spare me with that woe is George Bush. He knew exactly what he wanted to do, and if facts happened to get in his way, he looked the other way.

Regardless of anyones party stance this is unforgivable to know that the leader of your country knowingly distorted intelligence in order to go to war.

while you guys give obama hell because he may be a muslim, you give W a blank check. and its clear you love party more than country

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by androo829

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

Obama went up in the poles during the DNC, and McCain went up in the poles during the RNC. Pretty predictable.

And I'm not discrediting the poles. The poles are the polls. I just noticed that trend.

My dude, how did you manage to do that?

I was tired.

 

[nyk buc]

seein obama on o'reilly and KO just now and how he's just ready for the debates, i think that's where the election is gonna end. this dude is readyfor clutch time. he's finally the underdog now. obama never had to work hard and now he does. look for him to be focused.

remember, everyone thought kerry was gonna win in the last election via polls and he lost badly.

 

[producedbythejuice]

...or mccain could be up 5.

it goes both ways.

no point in speculating though... it makes more sense at this point to watch the electoral stuff.

 

[superblytrife]

My question is why do we care what goes on in Iraq? So we bounce out of there soon. Who cares? Why can't they figure it out? They're grown...we'regrown....why are they not doing them and why do we feel the need to do things for them? Who the +%@! are we that we have to risk the lives of our troops forsome country halfway around the globe? And furthermore, why should I care what goes on there?

I've never understood this. And please don't tell me it has to do with terrorism, because that truly is the biggest crock of **$% that has been shoveddown American's throats for awhile now.

 

[whywesteppin]

Originally Posted by superblyTRIFE

My question is why do we care what goes on in Iraq? So we bounce out of there soon. Who cares? Why can't they figure it out? They're grown...we're grown....why are they not doing them and why do we feel the need to do things for them? Who the +%@! are we that we have to risk the lives of our troops for some country halfway around the globe? And furthermore, why should I care what goes on there?

I've never understood this. And please don't tell me it has to do with terrorism, because that truly is the biggest crock of **$% that has been shoved down American's throats for awhile now.

It's about protecting our interests. Our interests are far-reaching. That's just the world we live in. I'm not saying it justifies thewar but it's a reason for it.

 

[superblytrife]

Originally Posted by whywesteppin

Originally Posted by superblyTRIFE

My question is why do we care what goes on in Iraq? So we bounce out of there soon. Who cares? Why can't they figure it out? They're grown...we're grown....why are they not doing them and why do we feel the need to do things for them? Who the +%@! are we that we have to risk the lives of our troops for some country halfway around the globe? And furthermore, why should I care what goes on there?

I've never understood this. And please don't tell me it has to do with terrorism, because that truly is the biggest crock of **$% that has been shoved down American's throats for awhile now.

It's about protecting our interests. Our interests are far-reaching. That's just the world we live in. I'm not saying it justifies the war but it's a reason for it.

I feel you, but see, that answer does not even come close to cutting it for me. But that is exactly the answer I would expect from our governmentthough, as sad as that is. I understand there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, but what irks me is that we're fed all these BS reasons as towhy we're still over there. Interests? %$$! does that mean? Oil? Money? Gold? An untapped reserve of virgins? What is it?!

Of course I'm being sarcastic, but the point is that I find it sad that so many people can have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily. And Americansjust roll along like everything is okay...no wonder the rest of the world hates us.

 

[essential1]

Someone has to get a majority of the blame and yes it is not completely Bush's fault but if we can't blame the president for 90% of the problems in thecountry what is the point of even electing a president.. Keep in mind the President is THE LEADER of the free world... The leader gets majority if not all theblame because thats what happens when you are a leader and happen to be incapable of doing your job.

 

[androo829]

Obama's new ad.