ELECTION DAY 2008:........... Barack Obama, the next President of the United States of America

[feelmode]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

So taxing the poor more > taxing the rich? At this juncture, we NEED tax dollars. Who will feel it the least?

You tax the poor more, and they'll have less than nothing.

Not all poor people are lazy and didn't try hard. Just like some rich people we born into an easy situation and were coddled to success.

[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]According to an analysis by the[/color] Tax Foundation[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)], based on recently released data from the Internal Revenue Service for 2005:

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]The top-earning 25% of taxpayers -- those with an Adjusted Gross Income ([/color][color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]AGI[/color][color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]) over $62,068 -- earned 67.5% of the nation's income, but they paid 86% of taxes collected.[/color][/color]

[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]The top 1% of taxpayers (AGI over $364,657) earned about 21% of the nation's income, yet paid more than 39% of all federal income taxes collected.
[/color]
[color= rgb(255, 255, 255)]That means the top 1% paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the bottom 95 percent, and the top 5% paid more than the bottom 95%.[/color]


Note: The top 1% paid 35.7% of all income taxes in 2004, and 39.38% of all income taxes in 2005, suggesting the "rich" now pay more as share of all income taxes than before and the tax burden on the rich has increased.

Yet the rich people are the worst & should pay even more!!!

*rolls eyes*

My response to you will be in your size 4 FONT.

Yes the rich pay more in taxes. Isn't that common sense? You make more money, you pay more in taxes. *rolling eyes*

However, a rich person with a taxable income of $1,000,000 taxed at the highest rate of 35% is still caking netting him 650,000 in disposable income. A poor person with taxable income of 10,000 taxed at the lowest rate of 10% only has 9,000 of disposable income.

Whose more in need of a tax break? The taxpayer with the $650,000 disposable income that has health care, driving in a benz, living in a million dollar house or that single mother with $9,000 disposable income with no health care, gets around in public transportation and lives in a studio apartment?

Thank you, i was just about to type something very similar.

 

[tbone95860]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

However, a rich person with a taxable income of $1,000,000 taxed at the highest rate of 35% is still caking netting him 650,000 in disposable income. A poor person with taxable income of 10,000 taxed at the lowest rate of 10% only has 9,000 of disposable income.
Whose more in need of a tax break? The taxpayer with the $650,000 disposable income that has health care, driving in a benz, living in a million dollar house or that single mother with $9,000 disposable income with no health care, gets around in public transportation and lives in a studio apartment?

So it's a tax BREAK to be paying 35% or more??? Right....
I call it stealing away the persons money. If you work your butt off to get where you want in life and make good money... all that hard work... I don'twant the government reaching in my pocket stealing away my money at some ridiculous rate. If you get to that point, you earned it.
Of course taxes are NECESSARY.... and I believe a reasonable % should be in place....

Originally Posted by 718stylez

i have electoral fatigue..my pops watches CNN like 24/7

I actually am too

I want this thing tohurry up and happen, I'm tired of waiting

Originally Posted by Qpitfighter

Dude. Rich people aren't the only ones who work hard. The tax rate on the rich is too high because they worked hard to get where they are? I don't get what you are trying to say. So who would you say doesn't work hard? The poor? the middle class? I'd like to know.

Working hard doesn't have a thing to do with what class your in and I didn't say anything like that.
I'm saying that if you work hard you should NOT be penalized for making a ton of money.
It decreases the incentive to work and end up making a ton of money if you raise the % you take the rich TOO high.
.

 

[fede dpt]

Yes the rich pay more in taxes. Isn't that common sense? You make more money, you pay more in taxes.
No.

However, a rich person with a taxable income of $1,000,000 taxed at the highest rate of 35% is still caking netting him 650,000 in disposable income.

So this person doesn't pay any expenses with the remaining 650k? No overhead? Bills? No mortgage? What about if this person has employees?

Whose more in need of a tax break? The taxpayer with the $650,000 disposable income that has health care, driving in a benz, living in a million dollar house or that single mother with $9,000 disposable income with no health care, gets around in public transportation and lives in a studio apartment?


A mother with a dependent(s) making 9k probably has a Zero Tax Liability (depending on how many dependents) anyway. Health Benefits? Medicaid and you have theState Children's Health Insurance Programs.


I'm not in the same boat as TBONE my mom makes 40g's a year and I make 10g's a year, but my mom knows she can very well lose her job if Obama getselected due to raising Payroll and Unemployment Taxes.

You're a smart dude, is it responsible for the government to redistribute earned income?

 

[kdwallace]

What about if this person has employees?

 

[downtown43]

I'm not in the same boat as TBONE my mom makes 40g's a year and I make 10g's a year, but my mom knows she can very well lose her job if Obama gets elected due to raising Payroll and Unemployment Taxes.


tell your mom that Obama will give a tax credit to low-income wage earners, and thus will offset the increase in payroll taxes.

http://www.politifact.com...h-o-meter/statements/813/

So it's a tax BREAK to be paying 35% or more??? Right....
I call it stealing away the persons money. If you work your butt off to get where you want in life and make good money... all that hard work... I don't want the government reaching in my pocket stealing away my money at some ridiculous rate. If you get to that point, you earned it.
Of course taxes are NECESSARY.... and I believe a reasonable % should be in place....

Working hard doesn't have a thing to do with what class your in and I didn't say anything like that.
I'm saying that if you work hard you should NOT be penalized for making a ton of money.
It decreases the incentive to work and end up making a ton of money if you raise the % you take the rich TOO high.

but if you are making a "ton of money" and others below you do not have that chance because they are struggling, how fair is that?

i would rather see every middle-class person get a chance to at least make $250,000 a year... than for people already making 1 million a year to just keepgetting richer.

 

[knightngale]

@ acting like the rich are in some type of need

@ the "incentive to become rich" line as if a lot of peopleautomatically will have it easier to become rich with tax breaks
is that why only a tiny percentage are actually rich?

 

[ce0 mal]

Between this comment, and the other comment about the racial slur on the receipt, I'm getting closet racist vibes from you.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Okay. So, I've asked this question maybe three times when this topic pops up...

What alternative do you guys recommend? What would be better and fair to all, and have the same impact that raising taxes on the richest people would?

No one answered my question the past 3 times I posted it and quoted it with a bigger font size. Hopefully today someone who is against raising taxes on therich will.

 

[5th platoon]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

Okay. So, I've asked this question maybe three times when this topic pops up...

What alternative do you guys recommend? What would be better and fair to all, and have the same impact that raising taxes on the richest people would?

No one answered my question the past 3 times I posted it and quoted it with a bigger font size. Hopefully today someone who is against raising taxes on the rich will.

If you were 'rich' you'd have a different view. I'm not saying I am rich, but me and my wife make enough to get by in comfortable lifestyle.Taxing the rich and giving to the poor just makes the poor even more lazy. It's just like welfare. There are a lot of families out there who can improvetheir status in life, but are too damn lazy to get off their @%@ to do something about because they have government support programs like welfare bailing themout and adding to their laziness. I know plenty of people personally who view life like that. This thinking of "Why worry about looking for a job thatpays more when welfare gives me a good amount to get by". And that thinking goes on to their children, which in turn don't value education, theydon't make education their priority to better themselves and they don't look for jobs. Instead, they live in an apartment or home that 2-3 familiesoccupy and make more babies adding to the mess they're already in and making society even worse. I work hard for my money and although I still don'texceed Obama's tax plan on those who make $250k, it's still their money. It's not fair to get more taken out and be given to the lazy poor.

 

[sundoobie]

So this person doesn't pay any expenses with the remaining 650k? No overhead? Bills? No mortgage? What about if this person has employees?
So now you want to put factors into a simple example? Come on now... bottom line, that low income individual with a smaller disposable income isin need more of tax cuts than an individual making 6 figures. Like I said common sense.

A mother with a dependent(s) making 9k probably has a Zero Tax Liability (depending on how many dependents) anyway. Health Benefits? Medicaid and you have the State Children's Health Insurance Programs.
Reread what I posted.

A poor person with taxable income of 10,000 taxed at the lowest rate of 10% only has 9,000 of disposable income.
Taxable income that's after all deductions. And do not compare govt provided health care to private health care. Major differences!

I'm not in the same boat as TBONE my mom makes 40g's a year and I make 10g's a year, but my mom knows she can very well lose her job if Obama gets elected due to raising Payroll and Unemployment Taxes.
If your mother loses her job it is not because of payroll taxes. Obama's proposal to increase payroll taxes is based on a higher taxable capfor Social Security taxes. Currently employers pay FICA taxes up to $102,000 of an employee's earnings. Obama may or may not raise this? Every singleyear this amount goes up regardless. For 2007 it was $97,500, for 2006 it was $94,200. Obviously if your mother is making 40gs, Obama's proposal toincrease payroll taxes does not affect her nor does it affect the employer who pays her wages.

So it's a tax BREAK to be paying 35% or more??? Right....
I call it stealing away the persons money. If you work your butt off to get where you want in life and make good money... all that hard work... I don't want the government reaching in my pocket stealing away my money at some ridiculous rate. If you get to that point, you earned it.
Of course taxes are NECESSARY.... and I believe a reasonable % should be in place....

If you don't want the govt to steal your money at this ridiculous rate then obviously you need to move out of the US. This is how our tax system works. Like I said, you make money whether it be capital gains, passive income, self employment income, dividends or interest, you get TAXED!

My question is why is McCain providing a tax cut to these rich and wealthy individuals? Why in the world does someone making over $250,000 need a tax break? Seriously.

Look at this chart and tell me why someone making above 2.87 million need a $269,364 tax cut? Obama's plan may work because obviously his plan is fundedby increasing the taxes for people with taxable income above $250,000.

McCain's tax plan will cost the US $2 trillion over the next decade and 58% of this $2 trillion goes to the top 1 percent. Why would middle class workersagree to something as "ridiculous" as this?

If you were 'rich' you'd have a different view. I'm not saying I am rich, but me and my wife make enough to get by in comfortable lifestyle. Taxing the rich and giving to the poor just makes the poor even more lazy. It's just like welfare. There are a lot of families out there who can improve their status in life, but are too damn lazy to get off their @%@ to do something about because they have government support programs like welfare bailing them out and adding to their laziness. I know plenty of people personally who view life like that. This thinking of "Why worry about looking for a job that pays more when welfare gives me a good amount to get by". And that thinking goes on to their children, which in turn don't value education, they don't make education their priority to better themselves and they don't look for jobs. Instead, they live in an apartment or home that 2-3 families occupy and make more babies adding to the mess they're already in and making society even worse. I work hard for my money and although I still don't exceed Obama's tax plan on those who make $250k, it's still their money. It's not fair to get more taken out and be given to the lazy poor.
^ Excellent points. Yes I agree the welfare system here in America is abused by many individuals. Just look at those people who received FEMAchecks for Katrina. Regardless though a lot of Americans truly still need of welfare and help from the Govt. Nothing will ever be perfect and unfortunatelyit only takes a few people abusing the welfare system to change society's view.

 

[urbenyouth]

Isn't Obama raising the rate from 36% to 39%? That doesn't seem like SO much.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

I get the argument 5th Platoon...but what's a better alternative?

And yes there are some people who are lazy, but that still doesn't explain to me how taxing those people more is the better thing to do.

It's a genuine question. What's a better alternative?

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

I'm not in the same boat as TBONE my mom makes 40g's a year and I make 10g's a year, but my mom knows she can very well lose her job if Obama gets elected due to raising Payroll and Unemployment Taxes.

tell your mom that Obama will give a tax credit to low-income wage earners, and thus will offset the increase in payroll taxes.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/813/http://www.politifact.com...h-o-meter/statements/813/


Businesses will try to control costs with the increase of the Corporate Taxes which will also be increased.


It's obvious that we Agree to Disagree on Economics on NT.

Nothing is for free. Everything comes with a price, that top 5% will not be the only people taxed.

I mean, if Obama is elected, it is what it is. He also wants to tax Oil Companies on profit? Ask Jimmy Carter how smoothly that went.

So now you want to put factors into a simple example? Come on now... bottom line, that low income individual with a smaller disposable income is in need more of tax cuts than an individual making 6 figures. Like I said common sense.

Of course there are factors. It's reality that guy will not bring home all the that money.

In a perfect world, you are right. But with the structure of the country and the system it doesn't work like that.

 

[sorkoram]

The points margin is widening

 

[Jaymatik]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

I get the argument 5th Platoon...but what's a better alternative?

And yes there are some people who are lazy, but that still doesn't explain to me how taxing those people more is the better thing to do.

It's a genuine question. What's a better alternative?

5th has a good point, but I'm not sure either what would be a better alternative, but I do think they should terminate WIC and put that money to use inother ways. It's a waste of tax payer money. Maybe if that program was terminated, people wouldn't be having like 5-7 kids. I had friends in highschool and college who had kids and managed well without getting WIC even though they qualified easily for it. And I have also worked with people who wereoverqualified, but knew how to work the WIC system and abused it without guilt.

 

[drfunk34]

not sure if this has been posted......
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1417423198?bctid=1866657225http://link.brightcove.co...17423198?bctid=1866657225

 

[owl troutwig]

 

[downtown43]

Businesses will try to control costs with the increase of the Corporate Taxes which will also be increased.

actually, under Obama's policy he would lower the corporate tax rates... but w/e

one thing you consistently fail to realize, every time you try to argue that Obama's plans will "hurt everybody", is that raising taxes does notautomatically = cutting jobs, cutting of wages, stagnation of economy, etc etc. if the tax increases are used to fund a tax cut for middle-class spenders, youwill see a general growth in economy. with more middle-class people spending, businesses will see an increase in sales, greater return on investments, morecompetition in the market, and just greater expansion in general.

you choose to only see one side of the coin. they'll cut jobs! they'll leave the country!

If you were 'rich' you'd have a different view. I'm not saying I am rich, but me and my wife make enough to get by in comfortable lifestyle. Taxing the rich and giving to the poor just makes the poor even more lazy. It's just like welfare. There are a lot of families out there who can improve their status in life, but are too damn lazy to get off their @%@ to do something about because they have government support programs like welfare bailing them out and adding to their laziness. I know plenty of people personally who view life like that. This thinking of "Why worry about looking for a job that pays more when welfare gives me a good amount to get by". And that thinking goes on to their children, which in turn don't value education, they don't make education their priority to better themselves and they don't look for jobs. Instead, they live in an apartment or home that 2-3 families occupy and make more babies adding to the mess they're already in and making society even worse. I work hard for my money and although I still don't exceed Obama's tax plan on those who make $250k, it's still their money. It's not fair to get more taken out and be given to the lazy poor.

open your mind, bruh... these tax cuts Obama is proposing are primarily for the WORKING low and middle-class. i can see that you hate welfare, but chill out.

why do people assume that Obama wants to "take from the rich and give to the poor"? if anything, he wants to "take from the rich and give to themillions of middle-class families that are struggling"

Obama's tax policy is not some big welfare deal. it's mainly aimed at relieving the pressures on the middle class and low class working families. stoptypecasting it as "giving a rich man's hard-earned money to useless lazy people", and stop typecasting anybody who does not make over $250k aslazy, useless, or that they just don't work hard enough. you're sounding too much like a Republican over there...

believe it or not, in between the "hard-working" rich and the "lazy" poor, there is something called the middle-class, in which mostAmericans reside. these are hard-working people with families who contribute to society every day, but lately they've had to struggle to make a livingbecause of the greed of people above them (and the government). with new tax relief, they would be able to get back on their feet and do even more tocontribute to society.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by 5th Platoon

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

Okay. So, I've asked this question maybe three times when this topic pops up...

What alternative do you guys recommend? What would be better and fair to all, and have the same impact that raising taxes on the richest people would?

No one answered my question the past 3 times I posted it and quoted it with a bigger font size. Hopefully today someone who is against raising taxes on the rich will.

If you were 'rich' you'd have a different view. I'm not saying I am rich, but me and my wife make enough to get by in comfortable lifestyle. Taxing the rich and giving to the poor just makes the poor even more lazy. It's just like welfare. There are a lot of families out there who can improve their status in life, but are too damn lazy to get off their @%@ to do something about because they have government support programs like welfare bailing them out and adding to their laziness. I know plenty of people personally who view life like that. This thinking of "Why worry about looking for a job that pays more when welfare gives me a good amount to get by". And that thinking goes on to their children, which in turn don't value education, they don't make education their priority to better themselves and they don't look for jobs. Instead, they live in an apartment or home that 2-3 families occupy and make more babies adding to the mess they're already in and making society even worse. I work hard for my money and although I still don't exceed Obama's tax plan on those who make $250k, it's still their money. It's not fair to get more taken out and be given to the lazy poor.

the taxes will not only go for welfare (which is something I don't like either) but other programs as well

the education system is GARBAGE
you can not better yourself with the type of education (LAUSD for example

) in its current state
look at what No Child Left Behind did because of the lack of $$$

obama said he will cut programs that are not working and improve the ones that do

 

[jakecuevas]

i am not old enough to vote but this is getting heated....it seems to bring the worst of in some people...

 

[vagixxer]

Originally Posted by OWL TROUTWIG

That's just one of the many things that make this man different.

He's out here working and trying to give it his all....

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by OWL TROUTWIG

That's dope.

 

[reigndrop]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Businesses will try to control costs with the increase of the Corporate Taxes which will also be increased.

actually, under Obama's policy he would lower the corporate tax rates... but w/e

one thing you consistently fail to realize, every time you try to argue that Obama's plans will "hurt everybody", is that raising taxes does not automatically = cutting jobs, cutting of wages, stagnation of economy, etc etc. if the tax increases are used to fund a tax cut for middle-class spenders, you will see a general growth in economy. with more middle-class people spending, businesses will see an increase in sales, greater return on investments, more competition in the market, and just greater expansion in general.

you choose to only see one side of the coin. they'll cut jobs! they'll leave the country!

If you were 'rich' you'd have a different view. I'm not saying I am rich, but me and my wife make enough to get by in comfortable lifestyle. Taxing the rich and giving to the poor just makes the poor even more lazy. It's just like welfare. There are a lot of families out there who can improve their status in life, but are too damn lazy to get off their @%@ to do something about because they have government support programs like welfare bailing them out and adding to their laziness. I know plenty of people personally who view life like that. This thinking of "Why worry about looking for a job that pays more when welfare gives me a good amount to get by". And that thinking goes on to their children, which in turn don't value education, they don't make education their priority to better themselves and they don't look for jobs. Instead, they live in an apartment or home that 2-3 families occupy and make more babies adding to the mess they're already in and making society even worse. I work hard for my money and although I still don't exceed Obama's tax plan on those who make $250k, it's still their money. It's not fair to get more taken out and be given to the lazy poor.

open your mind, bruh... these tax cuts Obama is proposing are primarily for the WORKING low and middle-class. i can see that you hate welfare, but chill out.

why do people assume that Obama wants to "take from the rich and give to the poor"? if anything, he wants to "take from the rich and give to the millions of middle-class families that are struggling"

Obama's tax policy is not some big welfare deal. it's mainly aimed at relieving the pressures on the middle class and low class working families. stop typecasting it as "giving a rich man's hard-earned money to useless lazy people", and stop typecasting anybody who does not make over $250k as lazy, useless, or that they just don't work hard enough. you're sounding too much like a Republican over there...

believe it or not, in between the "hard-working" rich and the "lazy" poor, there is something called the middle-class, in which most Americans reside. these are hard-working people with families who contribute to society every day, but lately they've had to struggle to make a living because of the greed of people above them (and the government). with new tax relief, they would be able to get back on their feet and do even more to contribute to society.
Legitimately thinking, Obama can't afford to have tax cuts while implementing his program for spending i.e. healthcare, energy, education ... Bill Clinton said he'd cut taxes for the middle class in '92, but oh wait, that never happened. Oh did I mention, he plans to raise taxes in a timewhen the economy is in a global crunch. Whewww, that should work out well huh?

Edit: While I do agree with some points about John McCain, I intensely disagree on his tax cuts. America can not afford tax cuts right now, it will severelyhurt our deficit and budget.

 

[reigndrop]

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx

Originally Posted by OWL TROUTWIG

That's dope.

Oh please, this campaign just bought 30 minutes of campaign on several major news outlets. I wonder how much that cost him compared to the$150,000

 

[producedbythejuice]

To the people that say that Obama wants to "redistribute" wealth ... isn't that what taxes are? Hasn't our tax system always been aredistribution of wealth? wouldn't every single person need to be taxed at the same rate for it NOT to be a redistribution of wealth? Who is to say thatthe way people's wealth is taxed from them right now is the correct way? The basis from which we should judge the changes that Obama and McCain want tomake?

And TBONE, I understand where you're coming from ... But income is NOT, NOT, NOT a measure of how hard someone works. I will admit that it is damn hard tomake >$250,000 a year and NOT work hard, but to act like someone making $700,000 a year is working 7x harder than someone making $100,000 a year or 20xharder than people making $35,000 a year is ridiculous. Incomes above $200,000 a year usually reflect status or a responsibility over other people, NOT howhard someone works.

That argument really doesn't hold much sway when talking to people who work their #@*!% off and make very little money, who stand to get bigger tax cutsfrom Obama.