Elon Musk trying to buy Twitter (edit: deal has been finalized)

osh kosh bosh said:
I don't think you are making national air travel "obsolete" with rail
in a big *** largely empty country like America
Click to expand...
Plane travel:
- get to the airport 2 hours before
- check in (watch the weight of your luggage or extra fees)
- get in line for TSA check (or pay for fast track)
- wait in the boarding area
- get on the plane
- wait to taxi and takeoff (oh ****! Unruly passenger/weather/sky too busy to take off)
- finally fly, land, and wait 30min-1hr in baggage claim (or more if they lost your ****)

TGV travel:
- get to train station
- buy ticket
- get on train when it gets there and unloads passengers (no check in, no luggage limits)
- get ticket punched by attendant on board
- train leaves
- train arrives
- pick up your stuff, get off the train, exit train station

What's the faster, less stressful experience?

There's a reason airlines companies torpedo anything that would make bullet trains a thing in this country. Flying is very inconvenient and time consuming, and if you can make TGVs a regional thing (at the beginning) in CA, New England (especially NY-BOS and along the I-95 all the way to DC), TX, with just a few intercontinental lines linking all the major urban centers of the US, domestic airlines will go the way of the dodo.

The fundamental problem is not technical; it's human. There are entities in the US that are economically and politically strong and are invested in making sure that high speed rail doesn't work.
 
gry60 said:
Plane travel:
- get to the airport 2 hours before
- check in (watch the weight of your luggage or extra fees)
- get in line for TSA check (or pay for fast track)
- wait in the boarding area
- get on the plane
- wait to taxi and takeoff (oh ****! Unruly passenger/weather/sky too busy to take off)
- finally fly, land, and wait 30min-1hr in baggage claim (or more if they lost your ****)

TGV travel:
- get to train station
- buy ticket
- get on train when it gets there and unloads passengers (no check in, no luggage limits)
- get ticket punched by attendant on board
- train leaves
- train arrives
- pick up your stuff, get off the train, exit train station

What's the faster, less stressful experience?

There's a reason airlines companies torpedo anything that would make bullet trains a thing in this country. Flying is very inconvenient and time consuming, and if you can make TGVs a regional thing (at the beginning) in CA, New England (especially NY-BOS and along the I-95 all the way to DC), TX, with just a few intercontinental lines linking all the major urban centers of the US, domestic airlines will go the way of the dodo.

The fundamental problem is not technical; it's human. There are entities in the US that are economically and politically strong and are invested in making sure that high speed rail doesn't work.
Click to expand...

im not arguing about what is more convenient or a better experience.


im saying it's not "easy" to make air travel obsolete given the geographic and political obstacles.

airlines are not your problem
america is a big empty country and the areas with high population are replete nimby's and restrictive land use policies
that make it really difficult to build a 4 story apartment let along national high speed rail.

not to mention the generally bloated infrastructure building costs in america.


it would not be "easy" to make air travel obsolete, it would be impossibly difficult.
 
executive76 said:
They did much more than say it would rot brains. They forcibly removed music from the shelves and threated to arrest music store owners and artists.














Same ones who "boycotted" Starbucks over red cups and using holiday vs Christmas
Click to expand...


Now they grandkids out here trying to bootyshake at every chance they get and record it :lol: :lol:
 
osh kosh bosh said:
im not arguing about what is more convenient or a better experience.


im saying it's not "easy" to make air travel obsolete given the geographic and political obstacles.

airlines are not your problem
america is a big empty country and the areas with high population are replete nimby's and restrictive land use policies
that make it really difficult to build a 4 story apartment let along national high speed rail.

not to mention the generally bloated infrastructure building costs in america.


it would not be "easy" to make air travel obsolete, it would be impossibly difficult.
Click to expand...
Like I said, Musk's rise to fame has been the result of his willingness to throw money at problems we already knew how to solve, but couldn't find the money for. High speed rail is primarily a money issue.

And it's not like the US doesn't already have transcontinental rail, so how much opposition are we talking about if much of the discussion is about upgrading tracks to make them suitable to bullet trains, as opposed to laying down entirely new tracks?

Just like with the Tesla roadster, all one has to do is demonstrate that there is demand and enthusiasm for HSR, and it will take off.
 
gry60 said:
Plane travel:
- get to the airport 2 hours before
- check in (watch the weight of your luggage or extra fees)
- get in line for TSA check (or pay for fast track)
- wait in the boarding area
- get on the plane
- wait to taxi and takeoff (oh ****! Unruly passenger/weather/sky too busy to take off)
- finally fly, land, and wait 30min-1hr in baggage claim (or more if they lost your ****)

TGV travel:
- get to train station
- buy ticket
- get on train when it gets there and unloads passengers (no check in, no luggage limits)
- get ticket punched by attendant on board
- train leaves
- train arrives
- pick up your stuff, get off the train, exit train station

What's the faster, less stressful experience?

There's a reason airlines companies torpedo anything that would make bullet trains a thing in this country. Flying is very inconvenient and time consuming, and if you can make TGVs a regional thing (at the beginning) in CA, New England (especially NY-BOS and along the I-95 all the way to DC), TX, with just a few intercontinental lines linking all the major urban centers of the US, domestic airlines will go the way of the dodo.

The fundamental problem is not technical; it's human. There are entities in the US that are economically and politically strong and are invested in making sure that high speed rail doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Train travel isn't as "convenient" as you're making it seem. It also can be just as expensive as a flight with up to double or triple the time of travel.
 
hennessy beach said:
Train travel isn't as "convenient" as you're making it seem. It also can be just as expensive as a flight with up to double or triple the time of travel.
Click to expand...
I'm definitely not talking about Amtrak though. Their prices combined with the - slow - speed of travel is highway robbery.
 
gry60 said:
Like I said, Musk's rise to fame has been the result of his willingness to throw money at problems we already knew how to solve, but couldn't find the money for. High speed rail is primarily a money issue.

And it's not like the US doesn't already have transcontinental rail, so how much opposition are we talking about if much of the discussion is about upgrading tracks to make them suitable to bullet trains, as opposed to laying down entirely new tracks?

Just like with the Tesla roadster, all one has to do is demonstrate that there is demand and enthusiasm for HSR, and it will take off.
Click to expand...

it really seems like a no brainer but it's not really the lack of funding it's the funding towards it's opposition.

a lot of time and money has gone into making america car-centric, concentrated effort by the automotive and airline industry, city planning, housing authorities etc.

shipping companies gonna allow people to move goods on their lines? no chance.

even if you get past all that and had a perfectly working system you tell someone let's catch the bus or ride the train and they look at you like you're crazy.

it's ****ed up cause a lot of people got more money than they know what to do with but the collective thinking is still how can we get even more instead of improving quality of life.
 
gry60 said:
Like I said, Musk's rise to fame has been the result of his willingness to throw money at problems we already knew how to solve, but couldn't find the money for. High speed rail is primarily a money issue.

And it's not like the US doesn't already have transcontinental rail, so how much opposition are we talking about if much of the discussion is about upgrading tracks to make them suitable to bullet trains, as opposed to laying down entirely new tracks?

Just like with the Tesla roadster, all one has to do is demonstrate that there is demand and enthusiasm for HSR, and it will take off.
Click to expand...

Whatever you think about Elon what you are describing is not easy

in a country that is giant, has totally empty areas, and has infrastructure costs 2x 3x western europe.

if you wanna say "make air travel between geographically proximate major population centers obsolete"

okay maybe, but I wouldn't describe that as "easy" as California found out
but make national air travel obsolete? that would be insanely difficult.

whatever the merits it would be hard, and it's not airlines that would be your main obstacle.
 
HNL HI said:
a lot of time and money has gone into making america car-centric, concentrated effort by the automotive and airline industry, city planning, housing authorities etc.

shipping companies gonna allow people to move goods on their lines? no chance.
Click to expand...
A similar argument was made about the invincibility of the almighty taxi company, but if you knew how it worked, the inefficiencies were obvious, and all it took was VC money to highlight the convenience of an automated dispatching system and transform the livery industry.

osh kosh bosh said:
okay maybe, but I wouldn't describe that as "easy" as California found out
but make national air travel obsolete? that would be insanely difficult.

whatever the merits it would be hard, and it's not airlines that would be your main obstacle.
Click to expand...
"Easy" as in "the roadmap to widespread adoption has been figured out."

I'm pretty sure I did mention that the obstacles are pretty much human in nature and significant. I also don't assume that any of this will happen overnight. I just think that the level of discontent that exists with the airline industry makes it right of the picking. Finally, convenience is a very powerful factor when it comes to converting fence sitters (as seen with Uber and Amazon).

I just want to add another overlooked point that contradicts the geographic argument against railroads: transit lines themselves are a means to spur economic development. A lot of areas bordering rivers and estuaries in New England grew and died as a result of growing and decreasing maritime/water transit. The same can be said for train lines, so this idea that a transcontinental HSR line would go from DC to Seattle without positively impacting the level of economy throughout the areas it crosses doesn't really match what has been observed.
 
balldontlie206 said:
Tbh I’m tired of Musk fanboys. Billionaire worship is odd to me.

Not a hater by any means but those billionaires aren’t going to give you any money by constantly praising them and what they bought.
Click to expand...
cause everyone is a temporarily distressed, soon-to-be millionaire/billionaire themselves. some sort of weird projection/societal thing. its def odd. similar to how nike makes everyone think theyre an athlete.
 
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