EXPLOSION @ Boston Marathon

[RustyShackleford]

No.

But if this dude was brainwashed by his dad and/or brother, then I will look at him differently.

So you are justifying his motives if that's the case

Don't try and dance around it and sugarcoat

WTF is your problem.

There is no justification for his actions. I never said there was

But if dude was brainwashed by he brother then I would feel sorry for him a lil, that his brother infected him with those idea.

There is a difference between someone who does wrong and doesn't care or takes pleasure in know they did something wrong; as oppose someone who does something wrong but in their head and heart felt it was the right thing to do.

-And I didn't call the people chanting USA stupid, or condemned their celebrations. I pointed out that the USA chant made them look stupid.

 

[stillin729]

No they can't be justified, because they've already waved their flags, shouted their triumphant USA chants, etc.

They could have been justified if they did all that after we found out what the motives were.

So you just answered the question, you think the two suspects killings can be justified

 

[nikeairforce1]

I had no idea Patriot's day was that big a deal in the New England Area.

If me and my brother went out to the bars and my brother got punched by some drunk idiot... No, I wouldn't consider that an attack on my family That doesn't even make sense

If you don't think that their motive matters and all that does matter is that innocent people were killed, attacks on America happen every day then.

Contrarian for contrarians sake.

???

I'm making legit points here. seriously, not trying to be contrarian.

If the criteria for an attack on America is mere the murders of innocent Americans, attacks on America happens every day.

You have to consider the motive.

 

[hymen man]

Were there any pictures of him when he was arrested?

I just got home and missed the whole capture. If so, can someone point me to the page?

 

[celticsfan9783]

positive or negative, it comes off as mindless mob mentality sometimes

Jeez some of you dudes are negative Nancys. If they were in the street burning Chechen flags THAT would be mindless mob mentality. Not celebrating your own nation's battle against terrorism foreign or domestic. Or just being Patriotic in general. How do you perceive that as being in bad taste?

 

[stillin729]

???

I'm making legit points here. seriously, not trying to be contrarian.

If the criteria for an attack on America is mere the murders of innocent Americans, attacks on America happens every day.

You have to consider the motive.

Time to take some NyQuil and call it a night

 

[lyonbc1]

Wait....you dont need to know motive to know this was an attack on America, two bombs went off at a marathon on Patriots day if thats not an attack on the US I dont know what is. I dont care if these were "americanized" people from Russia (Chechnya border) or wherever. The fact that you dont see this kind of unity and tremendous patriotism is why these moments are nice to see...people coming together and being proud and showing appreciation for the amazing work done by the police, fbi, emergency personnel, and a whole host of other agencies in the city of Boston this week. I would say that it sucks it takes horrible circumstances like this to bring about this kind of togetherness is a bit sad, but do you expect them to just act like there weren't hundreds of innocent people injured and 4 people killed senselessly because of this nonsense?

Chris Dorner was clearly targeting a select group of LAPD officers and had an agenda, dude may have even had a point about them being crooked but the way he went about that was completely wrong and reprehensible....and how people were defending that is beyond me.

I'm willing to bet that most people didn't even know it was Patriot's Day. I sure as hell didn't. Did you? I don't even know what it is or that it even existed and most people probably didn't.

Sure it's nice to see people come together, but it seems misguided to me. We don't know the motives yet. What if this these brothers just wanted to kill and hurt some people for fun?

Chanting USA and waving flags seems inappropriate at this point.

I've got family in New England so I did know what it was, but evvvverybody up there knows that Holiday its statewide, schools are let out and everything...the youngest one for sure well knew what that day was since he's been there from age 9, this wasn't random or a fit of anger that bombing was planned out and timed...and regardless if that was only some sick "fun" for them or not, that's an attack on America, innocent Americans were killed and others have had their lives changed forever. If someone is drunk and stupid, punches one of your close relatives but did it randomly; would you not consider that an attack on your family? I don't think their motive matters, they did it and killed innocent people..thats an attack on the USA.

I had no idea Patriot's day was that big a deal in the New England Area.

If me and my brother went out to the bars and my brother got punched by some drunk idiot... No, I wouldn't consider that an attack on my family That doesn't even make sense

If you don't think that their motive matters and all that does matter is that innocent people were killed, attacks on America happen every day then.

Nowhere did I say the motive doesn't matter for anything.....but the motive is not the distinguishing characteristic for whether it was an attack on America or not. What difference does it make whether their motive was al-queda related/sponsored or just them having resentment for America because they felt isolated? Please explain to me how that changes what happened? The motive is important but to say the motive is what will make you say this was an attack on America makes no sense. And where the hell are all these daily terrorist attacks happening in the USA? The fact that they pre-planned a bombing at a public event, and timed it to inflict the most damage they could with two small bombs is enough for me to consider it a terrorist attack on America...or would you rather we call it an act of terror that just so happened to occur in the USA And I'm not saying or calling for this to prompt any kind of response against these people, their families, or their country of origin.

By your logic...prior to us actually discovering with 100% certainty the motive of the 9/11 hijackers, that was not officially an attack on America either...c'mon man

 

[bandit country]

???

I'm making legit points here. seriously, not trying to be contrarian.

If the criteria for an attack on America is mere the murders of innocent Americans, attacks on America happens every day.

You have to consider the motive.

You are not making legit points. There are legitimate concerns here I.e. how quickly the government can militarize a police force on a civilian population, but questioning why a city might celebrate the capture of an aggressor whose actions immobilized and terrified it seems rather a Glib exercise.

 

[nikeairforce1]

So you just answered the question, you think the two suspects killings can be justified

My mistake. i originally thought you were talking about the actions of the people who gathered to celebrate all this. I'll try to answer it again.

I didn't condemn anyone for celebrating.

I was saying how people were celebrating seemed inappropriate to me considering we don't even know the motives yet.

So you're saying they could have justified motives for doing this?

If you're asking whether the brothers were justified in killing innocent people, I would say no.

But I have no idea how that relates to my point about people waving American flags and chanting USA.

 

[sorkoram]

They always seem to lose track of these guys.

Osama
9/11 high jackers

I could understand losing track of Osama in foreign territory, given he was being hidden under foreign shelter.

As far as 9/11, intelligence matters were conducted a bit differently prior to it happening, just the way it is, which spawned the Department of Homeland Security (officially). You'd think that they wouldn't lose track of him. The mom came out and said they routinely or questioned at least a few times.

Do I believe the intelligence agencies just said? "Nah he's good, let's not monitor this guy anymore". Hell nah.

 

[stillin729]

The Oklahoma City bombing was an attack on American was it not?

 

[sighfur]

Are People really starting to feel "sorry" for this kid? He's a terrorist no matter which way you look at it. This kid is a sleeper, his brother a sleeper. The new breed of terrorists, Americans who hate America.

 

[lyonbc1]

The Oklahoma City bombing was an attack on American was it not?

Nope, not until they knew McVeigh's motive for the act...it was a bombing that took place in Oklahoma City at first...but once they knew his motive was to kill as many innocent civilians as possible in a pre-planned terrorist attack, then and only then, did it become an attack on America

 

[imasoleman18]

i think people feel sorry just cause of his age

 

[RustyShackleford]

Are People really starting to feel "sorry" for this kid? He's a terrorist no matter which way you look at it. This kid is a sleeper, his brother a sleeper. The new breed of terrorists, Americans who hate America.

-There are millions of Americans that hate America

-It not really about feeling sorry for the kid, it is about understanding his motives.

-People love to think that terrorist just exist, they never want to understand what pushes these young men into that sort of life. They never what to imagine that suicide bombers or the 9-11 attackers believed themselves to be good people doing God's work.

-From the point of view of many, America is the terrorist, and they are rebels fighting against an evil empire.

But **** trying to understand there people, they're just "evil" or "crazy" or a "terrorist".

No man will ever find a greater comfort, than that offered by the warm embrace of their own ignorance

 

[timbo109]

So what exactly changes if his Miranda rights are suspended - no lawyer, no right to remain silent - what else? And what does that effectively mean for the actual investigation?

Not taking a stance pro/anti this action - just curious.

 

[kkennethj]

One random person getting shot, while absolutely terrible, is not a terrorist attack such as this. These dudes wanted to make a statement for whatever reason, and chose the premier marathon in this country to do it. We'll find out their motives soon enough but they even timed this bomb dropoff to be in coordination with the most heavy runner/audience traffic. Notice these didn't go off when the winners came through, they waited until a good majority of people were finishing and a larger audience would be present.

It was a terrorist attack on the people of the United States...you don't just wake up one day and say "oh I'm gonna make a bomb and blow up hundreds of people", you develop those sentiments over time whether you're talked into it by your sibling or you harbor that resentment and disregard for your fellow human's life; it doesn't matter.

And I think they were trying to say that people can cheer and support and chant their city or country for sporting events that literally have no impact on their actual lives and not get second guessed...yet when people whose lives were actually in danger, may have lost family or friends in this (or have close friends/relatives who were severely injured) who chant USA or yell "this is Boston" or applaud the police, FBI, etc. they get looked at sideways by some people and deemed "inappropriate", even though this is so much more significant in the grand scheme of things.

Thank you for the well thought out and timely response.
The term terrorist has been used a lot more loosely now. Quoting wiki "Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political or, ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians). Some definitions now include acts of unlawful violence and war." To me it is still unclear if this is a direct attack on the USA. I'm not ruling it out but its not concrete to me as well at least not until I hear what the bomber actually has to say.

Also even with your explanation, I still stand on my grounds that comparing this to a sporting event is ridiculous. But also note that if this is actually an attack on our country then the chants are perfectly justified.
I have nothing against being happy or cheering our police force for the capture of the bomber. I was never against their cheering nor deemed it inappropriate. It is just the fact that at the moment we are still unclear of the bombers motives so in my opinion the USA chants are .. I wouldn't go as far as saying inappropriate but a bit baseless.

Again I am not ruling out that it is an attack on our country (it does appear that it is) but it is premature to say so, like the initial response to a bombing is to think its an Al-Qaeda attack.

 

[Bert.]

I had no idea Patriot's day was that big a deal in the New England Area.

If me and my brother went out to the bars and my brother got punched by some drunk idiot... No, I wouldn't consider that an attack on my family That doesn't even make sense

If you don't think that their motive matters and all that does matter is that innocent people were killed, attacks on America happen every day then.

Contrarian for contrarians sake.

???

I'm making legit points here. seriously, not trying to be contrarian.

If the criteria for an attack on America is mere the murders of innocent Americans, attacks on America happens every day.

You have to consider the motive.

i agree with this

 

[rillo561]

I could understand losing track of Osama in foreign territory, given he was being hidden under foreign shelter.

As far as 9/11, intelligence matters were conducted a bit differently prior to it happening, just the way it is, which spawned the Department of Homeland Security (officially). You'd think that they wouldn't lose track of him. The mom came out and said they routinely or questioned at least a few times.

Do I believe the intelligence agencies just said? "Nah he's good, let's not monitor this guy anymore". Hell nah.

I wish I could be this optimistic.

 

[celticsfan9783]

So what exactly changes if his Miranda rights are suspended - no lawyer, no right to remain silent - what else? And what does that effectively mean for the actual investigation?

Not taking a stance pro/anti this action - just curious.

No self-incriminating statements would be admissible in court. They're thinking this case is a layup so they can exempt Miranda for the sake of public safety while not jeopardizing the case.

 

[bandit country]

-There are millions of Americans that hate America

-It not really about feeling sorry for the kid, it is about understanding his motives.

-People love to think that terrorist just exist, they never want to understand what pushes these young men into that sort of life. They never what to imagine that suicide bombers or the 9-11 attackers believed themselves to be good people doing God's work.

-From the point of view of many, America is the terrorist, and they are rebels fighting against an evil empire.

But **** trying to understand there people, they're just "evil" or "crazy" or a "terrorist".

No human will ever find greater comfort, than that offered by the warm embrace of their own ignorance

Our foreign policy is a cancer. That will never justify murdering civilians.

 

[h8menow]

I don't feel sorry for him, but I do think he was brainwashed by his brother. He had friends and seemed to fit in pretty well, while the older brother stated that he had no american friends and did not understand americans. Regardless, pretty sick to do something like this and then tweet "stay safe people". Seems pretty naive, but I think he actually thought he wouldn't be identified in the beginning.

 

[nikeairforce1]

I've got family in New England so I did know what it was, but evvvverybody up there knows that Holiday its statewide, schools are let out and everything...the youngest one for sure well knew what that day was since he's been there from age 9, this wasn't random or a fit of anger that bombing was planned out and timed...and regardless if that was only some sick "fun" for them or not, that's an attack on America, innocent Americans were killed and others have had their lives changed forever. If someone is drunk and stupid, punches one of your close relatives but did it randomly; would you not consider that an attack on your family? I don't think their motive matters, they did it and killed innocent people..thats an attack on the USA.

[/quote]

Nowhere did I say the motive doesn't matter for anything.....but the motive is not the distinguishing characteristic for whether it was an attack on America or not. What difference does it make whether their motive was al-queda related/sponsored or just them having resentment for America because they felt isolated? Please explain to me how that changes what happened? The motive is important but to say the motive is what will make you say this was an attack on America makes no sense. And where the hell are all these daily terrorist attacks happening in the USA? The fact that they pre-planned a bombing at a public event, and timed it to inflict the most damage they could with two small bombs is enough for me to consider it a terrorist attack on America...or would you rather we call it an act of terror that just so happened to occur in the USA And I'm not saying or calling for this to prompt any kind of response against these people, their families, or their country of origin.

By your logic...prior to us actually discovering with 100% certainty the motive of the 9/11 hijackers, that was not officially an attack on America either...c'mon man

You said it there..."I don't think their motive matters..."

???

Was I supposed to understand that you meant motive does matter when you clealrly said said it doesn't?

"Attack on America" has certain connotations to it. Because an attack happened in America, that doesn't mean that it was an attack ON America. People didn't say the Sandy Hook shootings were an attack on America, why not? People didn't say the Aurora Shootings was an attack on America, why not? People didn't say the shooting at the Sikh Temple Shootings were an attack on America, why not?

Clearly, the motive does matter as to whether you can classify something as an "attack on America." All of the mentioned attacks were planned. None of them happened spontaneously. And if you were to call them these events terrorism, I would agree with you.

And yes, prior to knowing the motives behind 9/11, we could not have said it was an attack on America. But we could have assumed due to previous terrorist attacks on it. The first question that would come to mind is WHY would someone do something like this. Same situation with the Boston Marathon. People want to the WHY. People want to know the motives because it's important.

tl;dr: terrorist attack, but might not be attack on America

 

[swendro]

]The bombing happened on the 15th. Reported video shows suspects with bags. Homeland Security/FBI were on it the minute those bombs blew and the footage was made available. Any and every identifiable face on those videos and images that even people take and post on the web are referenced for potential suspects in real-time.

For it to come down to them looking for one kid for that long, man the agencies aren't that stupid.

Yes the feds were on this immediately, but they didn't have access to all the footage RIGHT AWAY. There was SOME footage immediately available, but none that could pinpoint the two. And even when they did get a ton of footage they still have to sift through it. And when they find someone that could be a suspect they have to sift through the footage even more to trace the suspects steps to be sure. This all takes time. Clearly the best photos they got of the two were the ones they released, there would be no point in holding back higher res photos.


The Feds aren't stupid, you're right. That's why when they proclaim a person ARMED & DANGEROUS they approach the situation with extreme caution. You refer to the bomber as a kid. He's not just a kid. He was heavily armed, not just with guns, but explosive devices. His accomplice had a bomb strapped to his body. They are NOT going to charge in on a guy like that, especially if they can possibly take him alive.


AGAIN this **** is not a movie. It doesn't wrap up in a matter of 3 hours. It takes actual work.

 

[cubanref]

What does that have to do with my post? I'm sorry I don't understand what you're trying to say

You post suggests that an 19 year old should not be able to elude police. My posts says that its possible and that there people younger than 19 that can elude capture. The bombing was on Monday and we got him. Not to mention, Obama never declared an act of Terrorism. Meaning no additional manpower took take him down besides what was normal for this situation.

Elude police? This kid had a small army after him...helicopters,robots, FBI, military personnel, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were using satellites and drones to look for him. From all the reports we've heard so far he was a "normal kid" and not some trained criminal. All I'm trying to say is that this kid caused a lot of confusion about his whereabouts with so many trained professionals looking for him. I'm glad they got him but I don't understand how he managed to escape after the initial chase and fire fight last night