Grey market discussion thread (Let's keep the discussion mature) Rules on pg 1 please read before yo

[mycojoan23]

So the consensus regarding the definition of a 'Grey Market' Jordan is one that was made in a NIke factory, with 100% Nike materials, molds and production techniques, but has made it, through unauthorized distribution routes, into the hands of retailers who are unauthorized by Nike to sell the product (with a very slight chance of an authorized dealer getting a pair via returned merchandise).  This can be due to 'shrinkage,' unauthorized product fabrication, and diversion.  Am I correct on this?

I once received a pair of blatantly fake (not made by Nike, in a Nike factory or using Nike molds, materials, or production methods) Jordan 4 black/cement.  It was VERY easy to tell that they were fake, once I had a legit pair in hand to compare them to; some helpful folks on NT were able to tell just by my photographs.  I got my money back, and gave the shoes to a homeless guy that I know.

I would not wear the Fake pair, but I don't think I would have a problem wearing a 'Grey Market' pair, if the definition above is generally authoritative.  I personally, however, would not knowingly pay over retail price for them.  In terms of 'shrinkage,' it would be my guess that Nike does, albeit clandestinely, make a profit from the sale of these shoes.  I could be wrong on this, though.

Thanks to all for the great info!

The thing is for the most part you wouldnt be paying over retail for these shoes if you dont buy them through a reseller who marks them up. It is possible to buy them directly from the source. No middle man needed. Hence the reason why these are becoming a viable, albeit questionably moral, option.

nicely summarized.  If you put together what rockdeep/nikedealer, ninja, jumpmankb and zyzz (and many others)... this is the reality we are living in today with Nike not being really that affected by this b/c they are a multi-billion dollar company. Only the consumer is affected b/c this may be the only means to pickup a shoe that you missed out on.

the next questions that ppl will start wanting to know are:

- how can you tell if a site is grey market

- what are the best grey market sites

- what sites have grey market prices but ship blatant fakes

That's not what this thread is about.  Buying these shoes is a moral and legal issue (not saying that any one person is getting into any trouble), but there are things that could happen ie: your order being seized by customs, getting fakes intsead of grey mkt, etc.  JChambers said it best - just pick up from major retailers and you have nothing to worry about.

Plus, it's against the rules laid forth to reveal sources and sites... So Don't Ask About It.

 

[mikeylab]

The thing is for the most part you wouldnt be paying over retail for these shoes if you dont buy them through a reseller who marks them up. It is possible to buy them directly from the source. No middle man needed. Hence the reason why these are becoming a viable, albeit questionably moral, option.

I see, this must be where some eBay sellers with FSR's of sold out Jordan's are getting them.  But it should also be noted that Nike products bought from any seller on eBay do NOT meet Nike's own terms and conditions for factory inspection (should there be a quality problem with the shoe), it is safe to assume that Nike legally considers, and WILL TREAT, all pairs bought there to be 'grey market,' unauthorized and/or complete fakes. If you were get a legitimate sales receipt from the eBay seller included with your purchase, you could always claim that you did, in fact, purchase them from a Finish Line in Omaha or something.  However, barring that, they will NOT take the shoes back for inspection, replacement, or refund credit.  I think this is significant, given the sheer numbers of Nike's bought and sold on eBay, however I understand why Nike has this policy in place.  Again, I personally had a problem with a pair that I bought from eBay, and I was ultimately directed to Nike's counterfeit investigation division.

Thoughts on this are welcome!

 

[mycojoan23]

I see, this must be where some eBay sellers with FSR's of sold out Jordan's are getting them.  But it should also be noted that Nike products bought from any seller on eBay do NOT meet Nike's own terms and conditions for factory inspection (should there be a quality problem with the shoe), it is safe to assume that Nike legally considers, and WILL TREAT, all pairs bought there to be 'grey market,' unauthorized and/or complete fakes. If you were get a legitimate sales receipt from the eBay seller included with your purchase, you could always claim that you did, in fact, purchase them from a Finish Line in Omaha or something.  However, barring that, they will NOT take the shoes back for inspection, replacement, or refund credit.  I think this is significant, given the sheer numbers of Nike's bought and sold on eBay, however I understand why Nike has this policy in place.  Again, I personally had a problem with a pair that I bought from eBay, and I was ultimately directed to Nike's counterfeit investigation division.

Thoughts on this are welcome!

good point. but not necessarily the case.

- anybody can create a fake receipt and still you fakes

- Ebay sellers with FSR could just be selling fakes vs. unauthorized grey market

like i mentioned before, that's gonna be the next hot button topic is differentiating grey mkt from high quality fake... whereas before the questio was "real vs. fake".  With the grey market, the line is blurred with the term "Real". 

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I see, this must be where some eBay sellers with FSR's of sold out Jordan's are getting them.  But it should also be noted that Nike products bought from any seller on eBay do NOT meet Nike's own terms and conditions for factory inspection (should there be a quality problem with the shoe), it is safe to assume that Nike legally considers, and WILL TREAT, all pairs bought there to be 'grey market,' unauthorized and/or complete fakes. If you were get a legitimate sales receipt from the eBay seller included with your purchase, you could always claim that you did, in fact, purchase them from a Finish Line in Omaha or something.  However, barring that, they will NOT take the shoes back for inspection, replacement, or refund credit.  I think this is significant, given the sheer numbers of Nike's bought and sold on eBay, however I understand why Nike has this policy in place.  Again, I personally had a problem with a pair that I bought from eBay, and I was ultimately directed to Nike's counterfeit investigation division.

Thoughts on this are welcome!

I'm pretty sure that even with receipt theres a certain amount of time you have to return the shoes in DS condition back to nike. Not sure why you would want to return anything to nike that you buy of ebay in DS condition though. Even with receipt you probably payed more than retail for it and at most, if nike deemed a refund is warranted, you would only get retail plus shipping back at most. Are you trying to make the point that nike wouldnt accept a grey market pair of sneakers? Im not sure what point you were trying to make.

 

[squatchnt]

^Nike stands behind its products purchased at authorized retailers and once you circumvent that process you lose that protection. Also buying found do you know the shoes was made in an authorized factory. Grey market shoes, no matter how identical, may or may not have been made in a Nike factory. Shoes can disappear from inventory just like materials can. The basis of counterfeiting is to make the most realistic product in some cases, mainly if you plan on charging the most money for your product.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

^Nike stands behind its products purchased at authorized retailers and once you circumvent that process you lose that protection. Also buying found do you know the shoes was made in an authorized factory. Grey market shoes, no matter how identical, may or may not have been made in a Nike factory. Shoes can disappear from inventory just like materials can. The basis of counterfeiting is to make the most realistic product in some cases, mainly if you plan on charging the most money for your product.

Personally I believe that unless nike has some way to track which factory each of its products are made (which i doubt) i think a decent pair of grey market shoes with a forged/counterfeit receipt or a real receipt how ever way it was attained could easily get pass through an inspection with nike in a return process. 10 years ago? probably not because quality and craftsmanship were of the best quality. But now with the way these shoes are massed produced and put together i would not be surprised.

 

[Tigron]

good point. but not necessarily the case.

- anybody can create a fake receipt and still you fakes

- Ebay sellers with FSR could just be selling fakes vs. unauthorized grey market

like i mentioned before, that's gonna be the next hot button topic is differentiating grey mkt from high quality fake... whereas before the questio was "real vs. fake".  With the grey market, the line is blurred with the term "Real". 

But it isn't. Grey market pairs aren't fake. The previous poster is correct though, if you own a pair that has not been authorized, it won't be covered by Nike warranty.

 

[madamimadam]

But it isn't. Grey market pairs aren't fake. The previous poster is correct though, if you own a pair that has not been authorized, it won't be covered by Nike warranty.

several people on youtube have done videos where they take their grey market pair to HOH or Foot Locker and ask to have the box scanned to see if it shows up in their system. Sure enough it does.

 

[mikeylab]

I'm pretty sure that even with receipt theres a certain amount of time you have to return the shoes in DS condition back to nike. Not sure why you would want to return anything to nike that you buy of ebay in DS condition though. Even with receipt you probably payed more than retail for it and at most, if nike deemed a refund is warranted, you would only get retail plus shipping back at most. Are you trying to make the point that nike wouldnt accept a grey market pair of sneakers? Im not sure what point you were trying to make.

My pair was not DS, i don't stock shoes.  I had them for a week and the foamposite was cracking- i made an earlier post regarding this but I guess it's my fault for not quoting it here

 

[mikeylab]

good point. but not necessarily the case.

- anybody can create a fake receipt and still you fakes

- Ebay sellers with FSR could just be selling fakes vs. unauthorized grey market

like i mentioned before, that's gonna be the next hot button topic is differentiating grey mkt from high quality fake... whereas before the questio was "real vs. fake".  With the grey market, the line is blurred with the term "Real". 

Thanks for your reply. Couple of things,

I did say LEGITIMATE receipt.  And i think it safe to say that Nike will treat any pair of their shoes bought on eBay as fake (remember, I was ultimately referred to their counterfeit division).  There is no blur with regard to how Nike will treat your shoes bought from eBay.  If you follow that line of logic, since Nike will TREAT your and my eBay purchased shoes as fake, then obviously they consider them to be the same.  Some will care about this, others will not.

 

[mycojoan23]

Thanks for your reply. Couple of things,

I did say LEGITIMATE receipt.  And i think it safe to say that Nike will treat any pair of their shoes bought on eBay as fake (remember, I was ultimately referred to their counterfeit division).  There is no blur with regard to how Nike will treat your shoes bought from eBay.  If you follow that line of logic, since Nike will TREAT your and my eBay purchased shoes as fake, then obviously they consider them to be the same.  Some will care about this, others will not.

definitely on the same page as you.

Now, I am just referring to the secondary market in general of selling sneakers is where the line is getting more blurred.  Makes sense that Nike lumps everything as counterfeit if you didn't buy from an authorized retailer.

 

[mikeylab]

definitely on the same page as you.

Now, I am just referring to the secondary market in general of selling sneakers is where the line is getting more blurred.  Makes sense that Nike lumps everything as counterfeit if you didn't buy from an authorized retailer.

I see what you are saying, and I absolutely agree.

 

[mikeylab]

Listen, I know how much of a touchy subject this whole eBay thing can be.  Two of my ABSOLUTE favorite pairs of shoes have come from eBay.  One is a Jordan, the other is NSW.  I LOVE them both, and I take a certain amount of pride in their authenticity.  I can see how some will agree, while others may think it is silly to care about something this abstract.  However when I discuss subjects like this, it is important for me to not let my emotions dictate the logical outcomes of the fact in front of me.  And even though I know that my JB pair may be 'grey market' by some definitions, and even considered FAKE by Nike itself, it does not deter my love for the shoes or how I choose to wear them.  Really nike is just covering their *** with their eBay policy anyway, and it makes sense.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Listen, I know how much of a touchy subject this whole eBay thing can be.  Two of my ABSOLUTE favorite pairs of shoes have come from eBay.  One is a Jordan, the other is NSW.  I LOVE them both, and I take a certain amount of pride in their authenticity.  I can see how some will agree, while others may think it is silly to care about something this abstract.  However when I discuss subjects like this, it is important for me to not let my emotions dictate the logical outcomes of the fact in front of me.  And even though I know that my JB pair may be 'grey market' by some definitions, and even considered FAKE by Nike itself, it does not deter my love for the shoes or how I choose to wear them.  Really nike is just covering their *** with their eBay policy anyway, and it makes sense.

Hey, if it looks like an authentic JB shoe, feels like authentic JB shoe, performs like an authentic JB shoe, who's going to tell you that its not an authentic JB shoe? Be proud of your purchase and rock them like its nobodies business because in reality its not

 

[mikeylab]

Hey, if it looks like an authentic JB shoe, feels like authentic JB shoe, performs like an authentic JB shoe, who's going to tell you that its not an authentic JB shoe? Be proud of your purchase and rock them like its nobodies business because in reality its not

NICE- repped

 

[castomere]

Do the grey market and authorized pairs have the same production dates?

 

[louytromps]

Do the grey market and authorized pairs have the same production dates?

Yes.

 

[shoebrahh]

My question is, these consignment shops like kickk spott and the other stores online that are located in the US that are selling these shoes, are they all illegal? Or are these consignment shops just a disguise for companies to make it seem like all of their inventory comes from people who are selling them shoes?

And the online stores who have connects in china who are getting shoes from there this is all illegal and can be punishable by law?

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

My question is, these consignment shops like kickk spott and the other stores online that are located in the US that are selling these shoes, are they all illegal? Or are these consignment shops just a disguise for companies to make it seem like all of their inventory comes from people who are selling them shoes?

And the online stores who have connects in china who are getting shoes from there this is all illegal and can be punishable by law?

Well obviously you'd have to look at their inventory. If you see shoes that have not released yet, or shoes that came out years ago in a full size run then obviously they are grey market shoes. How they get these shoes on the other hand your guess is as good as mine. Its plausible that some one sold the shoes in bulk on consignment or they ordered directly from china. Lets not let all the new info coming out on these GM shoes keep us from using common sense. 

 

[shoebrahh]

Well obviously you'd have to look at their inventory. If you see shoes that have not released yet, or shoes that came out years ago in a full size run then obviously they are grey market shoes. How they get these shoes on the other hand your guess is as good as mine. Its plausible that some one sold the shoes in bulk on consignment or they ordered directly from china. Lets not let all the new info coming out on these GM shoes keep us from using common sense. 

I see that there shoes have a lot of XI inventory and shoes that have not been released yet but why doesn't nike take these sites down or do they just not care, or is it legal under some loophole to sell grey market shoes? Maybe the person selling the shoes is under the impression that they are receiving shoes from an authorized nike seller from china or somewhere else at a wholesale price, does this still make their practice illegal? 

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I see that there shoes have a lot of XI inventory and shoes that have not been released yet but why doesn't nike take these sites down or do they just not care, or is it legal under some loophole to sell grey market shoes? Maybe the person selling the shoes is under the impression that they are receiving shoes from an authorized nike seller from china or somewhere else at a wholesale price, does this still make their practice illegal? 

For the sake of keeping things brief and understandable lets put it this way. Yes, it is illegal, But nike makes so much money that these grey market pairs arent really doing anything to their profitability as a company. It would take more time money, and resources to just to take down the grey market industry then to just let them go under the radar.

 

[jchambers]

Nike doesn't lost any money if you cop some grey market XIs. They already sold all of theirs. The resellers on Ebay are who get hurt directly.

 

[generationz]

I don't know if it's ok to post these links, so mods please remove them if they are not allowed.

I stated multiple times while the shoes may come from Nike factories. The boxes are straight up fake. I think it's pretty common knowledge that the boxes and shoes aren't produced in the same factory. Shoe factory would have equipment made for working with materials (IE- leather, carbon fiber and etc) and the box company has equipment for printing.

The boxes are for the most part always off on early release pairs. The early sellers don't get corrected and rectified boxes until the final retail box gets leaked or stolen. Perfect example is the Jordan XIs, the early release sites ship in normal Nike boxes if you order super early, but later down the line when the early sellers got their hands on the retail box, they shipped with the appropriate box and accessories.






Just my 2 cents.

 

[generationz]

Nike doesn't lost any money if you cop some grey market XIs. They already sold all of theirs. The resellers on Ebay are who get hurt directly.

What if Nike is actually making money? Let's say the had a roll of patent leather and some carbon fiber that didn't meet quality control, so Nike said we'll sell the material to the factory and they can do whatever they want with it.

 

[rcjbbp1313]

i think this matter only really affects your outcome if you are looking to sell your shoes in the future, if you plan to wear them until the seams fall off then it really wouldnt matter and nobody would call them fake since you're not going to take them off for others to inspect so if you like your shoes DS or to resell later then yes grey market shoes are a problem but if you plan to wear them forever i really dont see a problem with it i guess.