Hide Ya Wives, Hide Ya Kids: Worldwide Coronavirus Pandemic!

[wuchi01]

I recommend reading this article that explains the difference in numbers between NY and SF. Both very populated, cities yet NY got destroyed while SF hasn't been hit as hard.
Good insight as to Cuomo and De Blasio's beefs. The lack of communication between state and city officials and how both Cuomo and De Blasio dropped the ball by not acting faster. Crazy that the city Health Department was ready to stage a coup if De Blasio didn't act fast enough.



Cuomo enthusiasts should note his reaction to SF mayor Breed's letter to him about locking down early on:

Good informative point. Also in previous post of all those nursing home deaths is news:

Andrew Cuomo needs to own nursing home COVID deaths | Opinion

Andrew Cuomo needs to fall on his sword when it comes to nursing home deaths in New York state.

www.newsweek.com

NY's Cuomo criticized over highest nursing home death toll

New York leads the nation in the number of coronavirus deaths in nursing homes, and Gov. Andrew Cuomo is coming under increasing criticism for his handling of the crisis

abcnews.go.com

Order back in March, recently reversed, tested positive seniors back to ill equipped nursing homes when NYC had very low occupied Javits Center and entire Navy hospital ship available was a death sentence. 20% of total in NY and 52% of total in NJ.

One-Third of All U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Nursing Home Residents or Workers (Published 2020)

In at least 14 states, more than half of coronavirus deaths are tied to long-term care facilities for older adults, according to a New York Times database.

www.nytimes.com

 

[shibadekobe]

GLOBAL CASES OF CORONAVIRUS EXCEED 5 MILLION - REUTERS TALLY

 

[DK972805]

Tempted to head to the barbershop. It’s getting rough out here. Been wearing hats 24/7.

 

[had pants]

 

[shibadekobe]

 

[shibadekobe]

 

[Olympus]

Well, I don't think it's realistic to wait until a vaccine arrives. Vaccines take historically a long time to make.

But prolonging the lockdown is the best answer for now.

Because what's going to happen is that if you open too soon, cases go up, and then they will have to shut down anyway.

Sticking to the shutdown is actually the quickest way to open up imo. Open up early and it's just going to be a cycle of opening and closing for an extended period of time.,and that'll hurt both the ppl who wanna open up and the ppl who want things closed.

There really is no perfect plan. It's a double-edged sword. We're going to hurt either way and there's no way to know just how bad things will be until long after a decision is made, one way or the other. A lot of peoples' lives and livelihoods are going to get caught in the crossfire with any decision made, even with the best intentions.

All valid points that you made.

But like someone mentioned in replying to you, this generalization that "younger, relatively healthy people are probably safe to go back to work" is too broad and sweeping. How can anyone outside of a medical professional go about declaring themselves X-degree of healthy to go out in the world and back to normalcy?

People have health conditions that they aren't even aware of in a lot of cases. Health conditions that could be exacerbated by Covid and result in death. That is not a risk worth taking and despite the financial calamity it could cause should the quarantine continue--- which would you choose if faced with the option--- Financial ruin or paying the ultimate price of your life on earth, forever?

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me the amount of people, who are really going through it, who'd choose the latter. Generational poverty is a real thing. I can't imagine what people who were already struggling, and who have been for generations, are going through right now. Truly, unfathomable.

Secondly, I think the two choices given in that question don't actually represent the scenario we're facing here. It isn't as black and white as: "stay in your house or die". Depending on your demographic, health status, community, people you interact with, and individual biology the statistics on you both contracting the disease and dying from it vary greatly. Of course, I'm not a medical professional. I always preface or add a disclaimer to what I'm saying to people by telling them "but I'm not qualified on any of this. This really just my opinion that doesn't matter anyway" because ultimately it really doesn't

Trust me when I say that I fully appreciate the need for people to get back to work. But outside of actual dollars being lost, we are literally talking about potentially paying the ultimate cost if a bunch of allegedly healthy young people deem themselves good to go back to work all at once.

Also when you say "dictating what they can and can't do rather than allow them a choice is becoming ridiculous..." you almost make it sound as if the whole quarantine is this arbitrary and oppressive order. Is it clear to you that that is definitely not what it is?

Going back to your question of if I'd rather suffer financial ruin or death, my thing with that too was that the government was forcing financial ruin on people because they made that choice for them. For a lot of people, they'd rather risk their health in order to provide for their family and make sure they don't go under. Regardless of what the medical professionals and government are saying, people want to be able to make that decision for themselves. That's why people are flying off the handle. The government is making decisions about their life without their input and there's nothing they can do.

Now, am I saying there shouldn't have been a lockdown at all? HELL NO. What I am saying is, the whole premise of this country is freedom and power to the people. The idea that THE PEOPLE put these politicians in their place and THE PEOPLE can take them out because they work for US. A government that tells its people what's in THEIR best interest and start making decisions and limiting their options FOR THEM is the antithesis of what this country is about.

Again, we're talking about a complex issue of public health and stopping/slowing the transmission of a novel virus. Sometimes you do have to save people from themselves and I get that. But there's a limit to how much people in this country are going to take and we're seeing that. It's not an easy task for those in power. It's crazy.

Obviously as you said it's not sustainable, but at least for the next few months it serves a logical purpose and a slow and methodical easing of the stay at home orders seems the most sensible course of action considering that not doing so could result in death for some people.

Lastly, you're saying that there is a way to let these "low risk" individuals go back to work while also taking precautions. There is but that way isn't perfect and people are violently fighting and protesting it. There is a segment of the population that is outright refusing to wear masks and take precautions, so because of them there is no safe way to do this for the simple fact that an alarmingly high number of people in this country are f-ing stupid.

Unprecedented times we're going through, at least in modern times. We'll see how it plays out.

First, like others said, you're being reasonable and trying to find the right balance, which I think is as much anyone can ask of anyone else.

There are a couple points that I wanted to bring up. One is that it's ok if you're young and healthy because your risk is low. We're in the 3rd month of Covid-19 and still this type of thinking persists. It is completely reasonable and intuitive. Like you point out, we take on the risk of many others things in life using the same approach. I hang from the rim in basketball knowing I'm not going to break a hip on the way down. Someone 80 years old may not want to take that risk.

But, as you say, this is different. This virus is not intuitive. Our only natural intuition is to avoid sick people, but we can't do that with this virus, because people spread it before they are symptomatic. It's also a dangerous game to say that all young people can get it but we will protect the old. The jury is out on this. Why? Because we can't avoid old people. They interact with healthcare workers. They need food, which either means they have to leave the house or someone has to bring it to them. They need human contact and are prone to loneliness and depression even more than we are. And all it takes is one lapse, one break in this invisible wall we want to put up between old people and the rest of us, and now they're compromised. Sure, we can do our best, and that's better than nothing, but the best measure we have is to reduce the overall viral burden in the society. This means reducing the number of people who are infected, whether young or old, healthy or not.

Now, I understand that we are sacrificing a lot in terms of finances and social activities, and it is not at all unreasonable to strike a balance between maintaining those and losing some people. And, as a nation, we have made it pretty clear that we're not capable (ready? mature?) of doing what South Korea or Taiwan is doing, so complete containment is not an option. So we must find the right balance that we can tolerate. But we have to acknowledge one fact: that we are ok with people dying. And we have to acknowledge a second fact: that, no matter what strategy we choose, we are going to exact a toll on society, whether through lost jobs, lose lives, or lifestyle changes. Those two facts are inevitable. And this is where government is supposed to step in, but that's a different story for now.

Another point -- you bring up "the narrative." Sadly we have seen a lot of problems going in both directions with this, but we've also seen the opposite. We've seen people say we're being hysterical when we said this is more dangerous than the flu, that it would spread to millions in a few weeks, that it could cause weird and deadly syndromes in children and in healthy people, etc etc. We've seen some questionable reporting of deaths and cases by states and countries in order to hide just how bad the pandemic is for them. And some of the worry, for example NYC running out of hospital beds, was avoided only because people worried. So it's been a two-way street. The answer is we need to all be a bit more measured, we need to take things with a grain of salt and not jump on the first shocking case report we read about. At this point in the game, we have a fairly good idea of what this virus is and where we are headed.

Great post. Especially agree on that last part. It's like Osterholm said in the article below, you have to scare people INTO their wits sometimes. So I guess I agree with you there.

I love Osterholm. He was great on Joe Rogan's podcast. Highly recommend it.

This is why I feel bad for a guy like Olympus that REALLY NEEDS THIS RE-OPENING so he can put some money back in his pocket to support his family and livelihood...........because he'll be the guy that will have to deal with these ignorant ****s that you see in the video above AND increase the risk of spreading the disease to his family members and people he cares about AND as well as himself if either of these ignorant ****ers are asymptomatic with the virus that walk into his place of business with that non-chalant bull**** attitude displayed before you.

And the US national government and its individual state governments refuse to hold people accountable for "not social distancing" 'cuz............"MY FREEDOMS"

Don't worry about me bro. Like I said, my situation is better than most I'm sure. NJ is also mandating masks be worn when in public places like Target or the grocery store. Every time I go out everyone and their mom is masked up. Definitely blessed from those standpoints.

But yeah, lotta dumb people out here

Lots of good stuff to catch up on in here. Thanks for sharing guys. Like cosmiccoffee9 said earlier, this is beautiful convo being had around a polarizing and complex subject. It's why I came in here to discuss this stuff because there's no meaningful convo happening anywhere on twitter or other forums I'm on. Even talking to people around me is hard at times.

 

[Blake P]

As someone whose business is largely dependent upon food service, I can attest to the supply chain consequences covered here, along with the many other hardships that were not specifically discussed.

 

[everysingletime]

More restaurants should be adopting this model

This place has booked deliveries for the whole month except may 29 too

 

[IATT]

 

[wuchi01]

As someone whose business is largely dependent upon food service, I can attest to the supply chain consequences covered here, along with the many other hardships that were not specifically discussed.

Followup: when everything grinds to a full stop.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Dumped Milk, Smashed Eggs, Plowed Vegetables: Food Waste of the Pandemic (Published 2020)

With restaurants, hotels and schools closed, many of the nation’s largest farms are destroying millions of pounds of fresh goods that they can no longer sell.

www.nytimes.com

'A disastrous situation': mountains of food wasted as coronavirus scrambles supply chain

Farmers are seeing produce rot in fields and dairy wash down drains as they rush to find areas of demand and prevent closures

www.theguardian.com

 

[shibadekobe]

 

[KingParappa]

Acting people care about the homeless. I’m pretty sure they aren’t being counted

 

[shibadekobe]

 

[shibadekobe]

Coronavirus behaving differently in China's northeast clusters, expert says

The novel coronavirus is behaving differently in patients in northeast China who have contracted it recently compared with early cases, indicating it is changing as it spreads, a prominent doctor said.

www.reuters.com

Coronavirus behaving differently in China's northeast clusters, expert says

 

[shibadekobe]

 

[dman14]

guess this will be the new norm at most parks
i like how folks just throwing the pigskin around

 

[Upptempo]

Very insightful video, as well as infuriating. Living in NYC my whole life, I've been lucky enough to have friends of all races and ethnicities.

I've had a decent amount of Chinese and Korean friends and they've all been good people. It's a damn shame these AMERICANS are being treated like **** because of the stigma pushed on them for this virus. These idiots won't eat from a Chinese restaurant but will eat pizza down the block. It's mind boggling how moronic so many people can be.

 

[whywesteppin]

Now, am I saying there shouldn't have been a lockdown at all? HELL NO. What I am saying is, the whole premise of this country is freedom and power to the people. The idea that THE PEOPLE put these politicians in their place and THE PEOPLE can take them out because they work for US. A government that tells its people what's in THEIR best interest and start making decisions and limiting their options FOR THEM is the antithesis of what this country is about.

Again, we're talking about a complex issue of public health and stopping/slowing the transmission of a novel virus. Sometimes you do have to save people from themselves and I get that. But there's a limit to how much people in this country are going to take and we're seeing that. It's not an easy task for those in power. It's crazy.

This reminds me of the hypocrisy we commonly see in our country: If a poor person goes bankrupt: your fault, you should have been more careful, now work harder. If a rich company goes bankrupt: well nobody could have predicted that, so we'll help you out.

Ideally, the government is supposed to step in. There are things we can't possibly expect individuals to do on their own. When this started, we told people to avoid social gatherings. Some people listened. But many didn't, and that harmed everyone. So there is a role for government there.

The hypocrisy here is the government clutching its money, which is really our money. We paid all those taxes all those years so that the government could protect us when a threat arises. But instead they're holding back. This would be like paying car insurance your whole life and then when you get in an accident Geico is like, "nah, we're not paying you. This is your problem."

 

[dman14]

with restaurants closing, a lot of the suppliers that our company uses are offering delivery and pickup to the public. distributors like Sysco have a lot of items if you have nearby pickup location

 

[jc619er]

Man, watching those DeSantis clips and having to listen to our stupid a** president daily our country has just become a society of finger pointers. The act of being responsible for your actions or accepting even a sliver of blame is completely gone. It's why we won't get out of this mess in the foreseeable future. It's someone else's fault. I'm not making things worse, you are. Tired of this ish. Grow up and act like an adult and we can all finally move on with our lives like they're supposed to be.

 

[had pants]

 

[IATT]

 

[had pants]

 

[cragmatic]

https://www.mlive.com/public-intere...ers-pledge-to-cover-costs.html?outputType=amp