Houston Rockets Thread 2024/2025 - NBA DraftTime, Sheppard On Deck

[Peep Game]

 

[g-time]

Have a feeling he’s going to be a mess here until he’s traded.

 

[steebie j]

He’s really trying to act his way outta town. *** ****

 

[reformeDWS]

it was a fun run. just happened to coincide with the warriors dynasty. from what i've seen, harden for simmons, thybulle, and maxey seems likely to happen. the only hang up is maxey can't be traded until after 1/1/21.

wall, gordon, and wood guaranteed through 2023. simmons guaranteed through 2025. interesting to see what direction the team goes in the next few years.

 

[Peep Game]

 

[HOU$TON]

Wow

 

[finessesosa]

This is not surprising. if you were smart you’d know Harden been a clown on and off the court. I’m glad all this is happening right now to show his true colors under a microscope.

I wonder what those that have been for him will say.

 

[g-time]

This is not surprising. if you were smart you’d know Harden been a clown on and off the court. I’m glad all this is happening right now to show his true colors under a microscope.

I wonder what those that have been for him will say.

been saying it for a while too. Have never been a fan.

 

[reformeDWS]

This is not surprising. if you were smart you’d know Harden been a clown on and off the court. I’m glad all this is happening right now to show his true colors under a microscope.

I wonder what those that have been for him will say.

It just feels like were being inundated by a lot of people who've sat and cheered through the success but can't wait to tell everyone how they never liked him at all. it's possible to not condone his off the court actions, give him his fair share of responsibility for the on the court let downs, and acknowledge that we've had a tremendous amount of success over the last 8 years largely in part to him.

he gave us 8 good years. I enjoyed it. It was infinitely more entertaining than the JVG/T-Mac/Yao and Adelman years. It's better for both sides to move on now. Looking forward to welcoming Simmons/Thybulle/Maxey with open arms and seeing what Silas can do with Wall/Gordon/Simmons/Wood for the next 3 years.

 

[g-time]

I didnt cheer him. I cheered the team. There’s a difference. I have never been a fan of his.

 

[finessesosa]

It just feels like were being inundated by a lot of people who've sat and cheered through the success but can't wait to tell everyone how they never liked him at all. it's possible to not condone his off the court actions, give him his fair share of responsibility for the on the court let downs, and acknowledge that we've had a tremendous amount of success over the last 8 years largely in part to him.

he gave us 8 good years. I enjoyed it. It was infinitely more entertaining than the JVG/T-Mac/Yao and Adelman years. It's better for both sides to move on now. Looking forward to welcoming Simmons/Thybulle/Maxey with open arms and seeing what Silas can do with Wall/Gordon/Simmons/Wood for the next 3 years.

Never was a fan of him. Only the TEAM like g-time said. Now that his tenure here is done all that clown stuff he was on from the start is starting to come out and he's just completely being unprofessional about it. Crazy thing is I think he would of been moved much easier if none of that stuff comes out & he chills out but no.... Here he continues to do more clown stuff. Whats next? fighting Wall,Cousins or Silas?

No Rocket fan should be vouching for him at all anymore because of 8 "good" years. What that got us?

 

[reformeDWS]

I didnt cheer him. I cheered the team. There’s a difference. I have never been a fan of his.

I disagree with the logic for a number of reasons but I understand that many people feel that way. I certainly take issue with some aspects of his on-court performance, but I reconcile that with the fact that he's carried this team for a number of years and there's maybe 2-3 players in the NBA you could've swapped him with over that time and enjoyed anywhere near the same level of results. We had a good run. Piling on him now for the sake of doing so seems unnecessary imo.

 

[HOU$TON]

So nobody was a fan of harden now?

Harden era was dope and literally the 2nd best in Rockets history behind Hakeem. I enjoyed his time and am looking forward to Silas leading a new era. I think he can become what Pop is to San Antonio and Rick Carlisle to Dallas

 

[g-time]

So nobody was a fan of harden now?

Harden era was dope and literally the 2nd best in Rockets history behind Hakeem. I enjoyed his time and am looking forward to Silas leading a new era. I think he can become what Pop is to San Antonio and Rick Carlisle to Dallas

honestly was never really a fan. Watching him with OKC, you could see potential but that was in a system where there were 2 stars a head of him and he had to play his role. But after the first couple years and seeing what the offense was turning in to (ball strictly in his hands, no movement off ball to create, PGs having less than 35 assists/yr (how?) to your star/best shooter), it became extremely hard and frustrating to watch. His lack of accountability was/is pretty frustrating as well.

I hope Silas actually is given a legitimate chance with this organization.

 

[reformeDWS]

honestly was never really a fan. Watching him with OKC, you could see potential but that was in a system where there were 2 stars a head of him and he had to play his role. But after the first couple years and seeing what the offense was turning in to (ball strictly in his hands, no movement off ball to create, PGs having less than 35 assists/yr (how?) to your star/best shooter), it became extremely hard and frustrating to watch. His lack of accountability was/is pretty frustrating as well.

I hope Silas actually is given a legitimate chance with this organization.

I mean, Morey is a big reason for a lot of what you're alluding to. Morey is on record as saying one of the big reasons they got Harden was that their math indicated he was an elite PnR player and elite at getting to the FT line. They brought him here to have him run a lot of the offense. It's not like McHale was exactly and X's and O's genius either. Dude legit thought it was a good idea to start Omer Asik and Dwight Howard together. McHale was also pro-post ups while Morey was publicly talking about how the post-up is the most inefficient shot in basketball.

Morey's entire philosophy was finding inefficiencies and capitalizing on them. That's why we made multiple decisions culminating in no postups, no midrange, and a pure high PnR spread offense in 2016-2017. that season we put up what is now the 13th highest team offensive rating of all time. Morey is on record saying we then stopped running as much PnR with Clint because teams shifted the way they defended it, it resulted in Harden being doubled exponentially more, and the numbers indicated Harden was a really good isolation player.

Morey and Co then decided to do what the numbers said would produce the best results and again shifted the organizational philosophy to isolation and lots of 3s. The team adjusted and over the next 2 years put up what is now the 14th and 6th highest team offensive rating of all time. The team was also a Chris Paul hamstring away from 1 finals win, and if Chris Paul isn't completely washed in 2018-2019, could've gave the raptors a solid run for back to back titles.

For those who so strongly dislike isolation basketball and miss the glory days of running plays every time down, here's a good excerpt from JJ Redick and Chris Paul talking about how the Warriors switching everything on defense completely stifled all plays and resulted in isolation offense.



I don't get how you reconcile rooting for the rockets, disliking its best player, and disliking the style of play the rockets ran when that player and that style resulted in averaging a 52 win pace over the last 8 seasons. Were you just unhappy when we won games?

 

[Peep Game]

So apparently this isn’t actually on Harden, but on Hair Cut Gate. Either way, Harden has been all around the U.S. maskless and surrounded by hoards of maskless people. He does not care one bit and I’m counting the days before he’s gone. That doesn’t keep him from being the second greatest Rocket in history, but he’s currently set up to not be looked at favorably by Houston fans til years from now with the stunt he’s pulling. At this point, that “do right by Harden” stuff doesn’t exist in any way. Get the best deal for the team and move on. If that happens to be in a city with zero entertainment and might life, oh well.

 

[g-time]

You have this awkward need to jump to Harden’s when anyone has something negative, or expresses a dislike for Harden.

Again, I absolutely wanted the Rockets to be successful and cheered for them. You can do that, and not exactly be thrilled with every aspect of the team. That’s no hard to understand. Yes Morey had a lot to do with it. But he’s also been known as a James enabler. So as much as it may have indeed been trying to exploit teams inefficiencies, it was also catering to what your star player wanted. Morey needed James and needed James happy. This organization, pre-James, was stuck in mediocrity-8th seed hell since almost Clutch City days. Other than a couple tmac/Yao seasons, this was a middle of the pack organization. So again, as much as it was taking teams inefficiencies, it was also catering to how you Star wanted to play.

As far as the Warriors teams switching on defense and stifling plays, that’s what good defensive teams do. They take what you’re good at and find ways to disrupt it. Minus Steph (even with his deficiencies and being hidden on defense, he’s still pesky enough to disrupt), those warrior teams were great defensively. The organization wanted to emulate GS on the offensive side of the ball, if anyone knew how to defend it, it was them. The problem with iso ball I had, wasn’t so much they were running it. It was the frequency and the length of iso into the shot clock. Dribbling for most the shot clock and jacking up a 3, allowing the defense to exert little to no energy and an easy transition became incredibly hard to watch.

And to answer your question, no I wasn’t unhappy when they won lol. Was hopeful that when it matter, they showed up and that style of play would transition. Although expectations vs reality would tell you otherwise.

 

[Peep Game]

So nobody was a fan of harden now?

Harden era was dope and literally the 2nd best in Rockets history behind Hakeem. I enjoyed his time and am looking forward to Silas leading a new era. I think he can become what Pop is to San Antonio and Rick Carlisle to Dallas

Pretty much my feelings. I’m 100% ready to move on from him. I’ve never personally interacted with him, so I don’t have that disgust for him that other people do. I remember some Killa Kyleon tweets as far back as soon as Harden got here where he was always trashing him, damn near sounding like a female that was scorned, and that it was weird unless they actually had an actual run-in or something. Currently though, what he’s doing is cowardly and reckless, and I can’t wait til he’s in another uniform, preferably somewhere he doesn’t want to be, in exchange for whatever young ascending potentially star type player there is and picks. I’m past done with him and he can get his flowers from Houston fans in 7+ years. The franchise needs to be cleansed of Harden like the Texans needed to be with Bill O’Brien and the rest of his minions.

 

[reformeDWS]

You have this awkward need to jump to Harden’s when anyone has something negative, or expresses a dislike for Harden.

we're on a message board. specifically, in a rockets thread. even more granular, we're discussing Harden's tenure as a rocket. If someone says something I disagree with regarding his tenure here, isn't the entire purpose of this site to respond and express dissenting opinions?

Yes Morey had a lot to do with it. But he’s also been known as a James enabler. So as much as it may have indeed been trying to exploit teams inefficiencies, it was also catering to what your star player wanted. So again, as much as it was taking teams inefficiencies, it was also catering to how you Star wanted to play.

my only issue with this is painting as harden being the driving force of playing isolation basketball and not the other way around given the evidence we have. Morey's influence on the rockets on-court play-style is well documented. from eliminating post ups, cutting out midrange shots, cutting out pick and rolls, and eventually moving to isolation. the ideology for each of those decisions has been identifying what produces the most points per possession, cutting out the inefficiency, and maximizing what generates the most PPP. in harden's first 3 years here, he mixed in post ups on the baseline, he regularly shot midrange jumpers, and he ran lots of pick and roll. unless you're of the opinion that james was running algorithms during each offseason to figure out how he could score more, I don't understand what's the basis for blaming him for the isolation play and not the organization for imposing that playstyle.

The problem with iso ball I had, wasn’t so much they were running it. It was the frequency and the length of iso into the shot clock. Dribbling for most the shot clock and jacking up a 3, allowing the defense to exert little to no energy and an easy transition became incredibly hard to watch.

I agree. I had plenty of issues with the frequency in which we ran isolation. I've consistently mentioned that we gave in too hard for the analytics. I've consistently said we should've abandoned all of morey's principles because they were based on sample sizes of entire seasons and could not accurately account for the variability of any given 4th quarter when you need a bucket. With that said, they continued doing it because they knew, like chris paul himself said in the video, that the best team in the league was going to force you into playing isolation basketball because of how often they switched on defense. chris paul himself said that all the plays you run go right out the window vs golden state when they switch. As ugly as it might have looked it times, you can't deny that it gave us the best chance to win at the time. I cannot overstate enough the talent disparity between the warriors and rockets, but harden and that playstyle everyone hates gave us a chance to compete against a team we'd otherwise get run out of the gym by.

at the end of the day, we all here want the same thing: rockets success. we're going to disagree on how to best get there. we're going to disagree on moves being made in real time. we all agree at this point that harden's tenure in houston is over and we're all looking forward to the next era of rockets basketball.

 

[reformeDWS]

 

[Peep Game]

Well you can probably scratch that Blazers game off the table as well

 

[g-time]

Rockets to Contact Trace

"Due to a separate positive test for a Houston Rockets staff member, there is additional contact tracing being performed that involves guard Eric Gordon and others, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium." via Shams Charania on Twitter

bleacherreport.com

Even more now.

 

[HOU$TON]

Merry Christmas my guys. Enjoy the day and count your blessings.

Hopefully this Harden saga is over soon and whoever tested positive safely recovers.

 

[Peep Game]

Woof. I remember there was a Rockets game a very long time ago were after a trade I think for Jordan Hamilton, they ended up beating some team while only playing eight players. I also feel like that was the Blazers they beat

 

[puglife]

they've always competed with harden. i don't know if they'll necessarily win tonight, but i think they'll definitely compete at least.