How come Tony Parker doesnt get mentioned as one of top pgs???

[mercutio]

He's not mentioned as one of the top PG's because his role on the team isn't like CP3, Ason Kidd, Deron; he's more of a "Popovich isgiving me the green light to speed past everyone and score," whereas the other top tier PG's need more of a passing mentality because the offense runsthrough them. It reminds me of what Avery Johnson was doing with Devin Harris before he got traded, he was telling him to be a "one-man fastbreak." Ithink that epitomizes Tony Parker pretty well. He was a beast the other night, making the Suns respect his jumper for once.

 

[gko2408]

Parker is on the same level as Billups to me. And that's the 2nd tier; below Nash, Paul, etc.

 

[japanair21]

To be fair, it's not like the Suns, Hornets, and Jazz don't have great players. All of these teams just have players that need to be fed the ball.

Suns: Matrix had been there for a while, then Amare was a development, got hurt, put the pieces together, get a great sixth man in Barbosa, a new style ofBasketball that a lot of teams have now adopted, and get a good passing PG in Nash, there you go.

Hornets: This team has been injury-ridden for the past year or two. If you look at who they have had injured, David West, Peja, Paul, they're all goodplayers but they were out. This is the first season where they all played together for a significant amount of games.

Jazz: These guys are severely underrated in my eyes, and their players don't get enough recognition. Boozer is a beast, and he was playing like an MVPearly. Okur is so clutch and he's unorthodox like Dirk is. AK47 is a Marion/Howard/Wallace/J-Smoove type player where you get the entire package. Korver,one of the best pure shooters in the game. Not to mention guys like Harpring and Millsap who gladly accept their roles. This is the team I'll be rootingfor if the Mavericks get the boot, I want Sloan to have a ring, he deserves it more than any coach (although, that argument can be debated, you earn your ring,it isn't just given to you).

Now the Spurs do have talent, but it's not like these other teams are filled with a bunch of scrubs. I do agree with your point that Andre Miller has neverhad that type of talent around him, and maybe that's what you were trying to point out which makes a great point, but who knows, maybe the Sixers make someoff-season moves and these guys get some real good players around them and then we can see what Andre can do with some players.

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Also, you can't be a good contending team without a good PG. The last team that didn't have a real good "Top-tier" PG to win is the Lakers, but they had Shaq in his prime, so they get a pass.

you consider a washed up Jason Williams a top-tier PG?

Well, Wade was more of a PG in that series then J-Will was. To be fair to your argument, yes Jason was the starting PG, and you bring up a point, but Wadeisn't strictly a SG like Kobe is, he's in the AI category.

 

[holdenmichael]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

I swear I was going to make this thread, same exact thread title when I woke up, but I was busy,

. Sorta freaky.

HE GETS THE JOB DONE, HE HAS MORE RINGS THAN ANY PG IN THE LEAGUE RIGHT NOW (doesn't he..?

). There was reason why the Spurs didn't go after Kidd a few years back, and guess what? HE'S ONLY TWENTY-FIVE!!

Actually, the opposite was true. The Spurs didn't have faith in Tony even after he and the Spurs beat Kidd in the Finals (Kidd's 2nd straigtappearance). The Spurs made their pitch but Kidd chose to stay in Jersey. Tony has made great strides and he does benefit and lose from his siuation, butwinning obviously far outweighs individual recognition. He's clearly in the top tier of points guards this year. Look at the series he's having againstNash. If Amare were Boozer, the Suns might have more wins (and Nash more assists), but that wouldn't change the fact that Tony has been outplaying Nash.

 

[the future d1]

kwame brown>>>tony parker

 

[oo n3ff oo]

I dont understand how hes not a top 5 PG. The object of the game is to win, as is with any sport and hes pritty good at it. And for the stat who-ers, Impritty sure Parker has lead the NBA in points in the paint for the past 3 seasons.

 

[scienz of life]

he's a top 5 pg to me...

 

[bonafide hustla]

yall serious? yall think TP could do what he's doing if he played for any team? and if he did, you think it would be effective on any team?

its not really a hard concept yall. the guy plays alongside one of the greatest big men to ever play the game, and his team as a whole is legendary. If TonyParker isn't scoring then he is useless. All the aforementioned guards can have a bad night scoring, yet still manage to be of value to their team. Idon't even see why its so hard to see someone not liking his game at the PG position. I like Monta as a player better because he can do everything TP cando without ever having to dominate the ball. And his jumper is better, younger, more athletic, etc. The other dudes who are PGs are just more conventionaland don't need to score to be useful

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by bonafide hustla

yall serious? yall think TP could do what he's doing if he played for any team? and if he did, you think it would be effective on any team?

its not really a hard concept yall. the guy plays alongside one of the greatest big men to ever play the game, and his team as a whole is legendary. If Tony Parker isn't scoring then he is useless. All the aforementioned guards can have a bad night scoring, yet still manage to be of value to their team. I don't even see why its so hard to see someone not liking his game at the PG position. I like Monta as a player better because he can do everything TP can do without ever having to dominate the ball. And his jumper is better, younger, more athletic, etc. The other dudes who are PGs are just more conventional and don't need to score to be useful

Umm....this sounds so dumb. It's not like he ONLY scores and he doesn't dominate the ball. The heck did you get that from? TD does. Please tell mewhen scoring wasn't useful. Actually that's one of the dumber arguments I've heard. If he isn't scoring he's useless.....uh that's thepoint of the game. TO SCORE! So why fault a guy for doing what he's supposed to. It's painfully obvious no one can guard him. He can still get you 10assists whenever. He's an elite defender at his position. So what exactly makes him not top 5 or not a tier 1 PG??? I honestly don't know why hecouldn't do the same...probably much better.....on any team. It's stupid to speculate either way because we've only seen him in one style offense.

 

[u ttocs]

Originally Posted by bonafide hustla

yall serious? yall think TP could do what he's doing if he played for any team? and if he did, you think it would be effective on any team?

its not really a hard concept yall. the guy plays alongside one of the greatest big men to ever play the game, and his team as a whole is legendary. If Tony Parker isn't scoring then he is useless. All the aforementioned guards can have a bad night scoring, yet still manage to be of value to their team. I don't even see why its so hard to see someone not liking his game at the PG position. I like Monta as a player better because he can do everything TP can do without ever having to dominate the ball. And his jumper is better, younger, more athletic, etc. The other dudes who are PGs are just more conventional and don't need to score to be useful

This is one of the worst posts I've ever seen. There's a lot of times that Parker is flat out unguardable, he gets into the lane anytime he wants. And he finishes at the basket like power fowards. Yethe's useless? Steve Nash who's supposedly the top tier point guard can't even guard the guy. I don't care if he has Tim Duncan around him,every winning team benefits from having good players around them. That's the lamest excuse in the book.

Ya'll would rather have losers like Monta Ellis and Baron Daviswho have no concept of how to play disciplined team basketball, no concept of how to play any defense. Ya'll do realize that Tony Parker is also a verygood defensive player.

 

[gordon gartrelle]

bonafide hustla

 

[u ttocs]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Exactly, but according to some in this thread he's only a tier 2 player

he is a tier 2 player though... i still stand by that

take a great tier 2 PG like Andre Miller and put him on the friggin Spurs for his whole career.... you're most definitely gonna see the same results we're seeing from Tony Parker. he'd still be the same Andre Miller, but he'd be on a much better team and would have a lot more achievements to his name.

now take Parker and put him on a 29-win Suns team. put him on an 18-win Hornets team. put him on a 26-win Jazz team. would he have those teams winning 50 games within 3 years? would he be averaging 18 and 11? would he be an MVP candidate? no, sorry. he'd just look like Andre Miller. his teams would be mediocre, and nobody would talk about him.

see the separation between Nash/Paul/Williams and Parker?

This is like comedy hour. Not a single sentence you typed hasanything to do with reality, all a bunch of phony scenarios that are never gonna happen. Nobody knows what would happen if these guys were on different andquite frankly who cares. It doesn't matter.

Magic Johnson got drafted onto a playoff team with a hall of center already on it, would he have won 5 rings if he got drafted by the Nuggets? Probably not,but does anybody ever discredit him for that. No

 

[u ttocs]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43



see the separation between Nash/Paul/Williams and Parker?

Where's the separation? Everytime Nash and Parker match up, Nash cannot guard Paker. Nash is so much better than Paker, yet he can't even guardthe guy. Maybe I'm watching different games than some of you experts are. It's not like this is a one year thing either, every year Parker puts upbig numbers against the Suns because nobody can stay with him.

Nash is the MVP, best player in the game yet he can't even guard a mediocure tier 2 player like Parker. Amazing

 

[gko2408]

He's not mentioned as one of the top PG's because his role on the team isn't like CP3, Ason Kidd, Deron; he's more of a "Popovich is giving me the green light to speed past everyone and score," whereas the other top tier PG's need more of a passing mentality because the offense runs through them. It reminds me of what Avery Johnson was doing with Devin Harris before he got traded, he was telling him to be a "one-man fastbreak." I think that epitomizes Tony Parker pretty well. He was a beast the other night, making the Suns respect his jumper for once.
The guy I'm quoting is pretty much saying the same thing I've said somewhere else in this thread. Tony Parker does NOT have to bear thesame responsibilities that the other point guards do in running their teams. He is a FACILITATOR of the Spurs offense whereas Nash, Paul, Deron are theCATALYSTS of their respective team's offense. You can definitely make the argument that Parker is terribly underrated, which he is, but he's still notone of the best point guards.

 

[u ttocs]

Originally Posted by gko2408

He's not mentioned as one of the top PG's because his role on the team isn't like CP3, Ason Kidd, Deron; he's more of a "Popovich is giving me the green light to speed past everyone and score," whereas the other top tier PG's need more of a passing mentality because the offense runs through them. It reminds me of what Avery Johnson was doing with Devin Harris before he got traded, he was telling him to be a "one-man fastbreak." I think that epitomizes Tony Parker pretty well. He was a beast the other night, making the Suns respect his jumper for once.

The guy I'm quoting is pretty much saying the same thing I've said somewhere else in this thread. Tony Parker does NOT have to bear the same responsibilities that the other point guards do in running their teams. He is a FACILITATOR of the Spurs offense whereas Nash, Paul, Deron are the CATALYSTS of their respective team's offense. You can definitely make the argument that Parker is terribly underrated, which he is, but he's still not one of the best point guards.


He's a scoring point guard. If anything his repsonsibility is just the same, if not harder. I don't think people realize how hard it is to dowhat Parker is doing. He's a 6 footer that drives into the lane and finishes over 7 footers consistently. He's like a more efficient Iverson. Thisguy makes Shaq his personal stool everytime he plays him. This goes back to 2004 when the Lakers and Spurs used to play, the Lakers basically had no answerfor Parker. Quite frankly how many teams have had an answer for Parker over the Spurs championship runs? I seriously don't think people are watching thesame games I'm watching. People are just looking at stat sheets from the regular season, which is meaningless to me. Nobody on the Spurs puts up greatregular season numbers because they don't have to.

 

[dafeature]

Originally Posted by u ttocs

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43



see the separation between Nash/Paul/Williams and Parker?

Where's the separation? Everytime Nash and Parker match up, Nash cannot guard Paker. Nash is so much better than Paker, yet he can't even guard the guy. Maybe I'm watching different games than some of you experts are. It's not like this is a one year thing either, every year Parker puts up big numbers against the Suns because nobody can stay with him.

Nash is the MVP, best player in the game yet he can't even guard a mediocure tier 2 player like Parker. Amazing

excellent point made right here. TP is a deadly driver perhaps the best pg at this. and hes quick. also i find it funny how someone said on page 1 how theMavs have a great defense

. at what position C? no hate on CP3 but heskillin an old Jason Kidd who cant keep up with him. i wonder if he would be doin the same against D. Harris if he was still on the team. but TP has to be thebest hes proven himself in the playoffs and finals...

TP
Billups
Nash
CP3
Kidd

 

[jaydubh11]

In a pick and roll situation with him and Duncan, there's nothing you can do.
There's nothing the Suns could do. That wouldn't happen with Sloan/Williams/Boozer or any other good defensive team.

 

[bonafide hustla]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by bonafide hustla

yall serious? yall think TP could do what he's doing if he played for any team? and if he did, you think it would be effective on any team?

its not really a hard concept yall. the guy plays alongside one of the greatest big men to ever play the game, and his team as a whole is legendary. If Tony Parker isn't scoring then he is useless. All the aforementioned guards can have a bad night scoring, yet still manage to be of value to their team. I don't even see why its so hard to see someone not liking his game at the PG position. I like Monta as a player better because he can do everything TP can do without ever having to dominate the ball. And his jumper is better, younger, more athletic, etc. The other dudes who are PGs are just more conventional and don't need to score to be useful

Umm....this sounds so dumb. It's not like he ONLY scores and he doesn't dominate the ball. The heck did you get that from? TD does. Please tell me when scoring wasn't useful. Actually that's one of the dumber arguments I've heard. If he isn't scoring he's useless.....uh that's the point of the game. TO SCORE! So why fault a guy for doing what he's supposed to. It's painfully obvious no one can guard him. He can still get you 10 assists whenever. He's an elite defender at his position. So what exactly makes him not top 5 or not a tier 1 PG??? I honestly don't know why he couldn't do the same...probably much better.....on any team. It's stupid to speculate either way because we've only seen him in one style offense.

let me open with a disclaimer. Tony Parker is a good player. A very good player. I also think however that Manu Ginobilli is also a good player, but heisn't tier 1. obviously when he's on and his midrange is working he's hard to contain, but again I feel like he is more a product of a greatsystem that he fits well into. again I dont think he can produce as good anywhere in the NBA. and my statement remains...if he scores and tries to score atthe rate he does now on a different team, it won't be nearly as effective. why is that such a hard concept to grasp? now to address this other guy...

1. Tim Duncan does not dominate the ball he's there best player and first option (in the clutch), that does not mean he dominates the ball. Intransition basketball Tony Parker dominates the ball and in the half court Tim Duncan/Parker dominate the ball with the likes of Ginobilli relieving some ofthe pressure. If Duncan dominates in the half court its not even a glaring difference. With that said I'm sure they avg the same amount of shots/touches.

2. scoring is obviously useful clown, i said useless if not scoring. as in when he isn't scoring he isn'tnearly as involved and productive.

3.

the point of the game is to WIN not score. need i get into thedetails of why winning isn't exclusive to scoring?

4. not faulting him, i said he was good, just not top 5. if anyone put him at 6 i wouldnt argue, but I'd disagree.... I'd go another way and choosea few other individuals who I think will fit the mold of a PG better and give me more production from a bunch of standpoints. if u say top 5 then yes Iargue...obviously

5. No he can't get you 10 assists whenever

what NBA are youwatching


6. elite defender

yall _s is some media parrots real talk. and it's not just yall either. I had a cat tell me he'd trade away Derron Williams for Tony Parker andtried to cite defense...not to mention him sayin he felt TP was a better offensive player.

I never heard any of this TP is a good defender talk till that silly columniststarted talkin bout it. not that he's bad, but elite....never heard this until like a few weeks ago. and the basis is all from some stat of how manypoints are scored while he's on the floor. The basis was purely statistical. Never mind the fact that he plays alongside one of the best big me on BOTHsides of the floor or the fact that he plays for one of the better defensive teams of this era. Elite defender? WOW. and I usually take much of what a lot ofyall have to say with a grain of salt because its becoming more and more apparent that a lot of people dont even watch basketball. Only the big televisedgames and what sportscenter has to say. go cop league pass. its eye opening

 

[trunks206]

6. elite defender

I second that...

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by bonafide hustla

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by bonafide hustla

yall serious? yall think TP could do what he's doing if he played for any team? and if he did, you think it would be effective on any team?

its not really a hard concept yall. the guy plays alongside one of the greatest big men to ever play the game, and his team as a whole is legendary. If Tony Parker isn't scoring then he is useless. All the aforementioned guards can have a bad night scoring, yet still manage to be of value to their team. I don't even see why its so hard to see someone not liking his game at the PG position. I like Monta as a player better because he can do everything TP can do without ever having to dominate the ball. And his jumper is better, younger, more athletic, etc. The other dudes who are PGs are just more conventional and don't need to score to be useful

Umm....this sounds so dumb. It's not like he ONLY scores and he doesn't dominate the ball. The heck did you get that from? TD does. Please tell me when scoring wasn't useful. Actually that's one of the dumber arguments I've heard. If he isn't scoring he's useless.....uh that's the point of the game. TO SCORE! So why fault a guy for doing what he's supposed to. It's painfully obvious no one can guard him. He can still get you 10 assists whenever. He's an elite defender at his position. So what exactly makes him not top 5 or not a tier 1 PG??? I honestly don't know why he couldn't do the same...probably much better.....on any team. It's stupid to speculate either way because we've only seen him in one style offense.

let me open with a disclaimer. Tony Parker is a good player. A very good player. I also think however that Manu Ginobilli is also a good player, but he isn't tier 1. obviously when he's on and his midrange is working he's hard to contain, but again I feel like he is more a product of a great system that he fits well into. again I dont think he can produce as good anywhere in the NBA. and my statement remains...if he scores and tries to score at the rate he does now on a different team, it won't be nearly as effective. why is that such a hard concept to grasp? now to address this other guy...

1. Tim Duncan does not dominate the ball he's there best player and first option (in the clutch), that does not mean he dominates the ball. In transition basketball Tony Parker dominates the ball and in the half court Tim Duncan/Parker dominate the ball with the likes of Ginobilli relieving some of the pressure. If Duncan dominates in the half court its not even a glaring difference. With that said I'm sure they avg the same amount of shots/touches.

2. scoring is obviously useful clown, i said useless if not scoring. as in when he isn't scoring he isn't nearly as involved and productive.

3.

the point of the game is to WIN not score. need i get into the details of why winning isn't exclusive to scoring?

4. not faulting him, i said he was good, just not top 5. if anyone put him at 6 i wouldnt argue, but I'd disagree.... I'd go another way and choose a few other individuals who I think will fit the mold of a PG better and give me more production from a bunch of standpoints. if u say top 5 then yes I argue...obviously

5. No he can't get you 10 assists whenever

what NBA are you watching


6. elite defender

yall _s is some media parrots real talk. and it's not just yall either. I had a cat tell me he'd trade away Derron Williams for Tony Parker and tried to cite defense...not to mention him sayin he felt TP was a better offensive player.

I never heard any of this TP is a good defender talk till that silly columnist started talkin bout it. not that he's bad, but elite....never heard this until like a few weeks ago. and the basis is all from some stat of how many points are scored while he's on the floor. The basis was purely statistical. Never mind the fact that he plays alongside one of the best big me on BOTH sides of the floor or the fact that he plays for one of the better defensive teams of this era. Elite defender? WOW. and I usually take much of what a lot of yall have to say with a grain of salt because its becoming more and more apparent that a lot of people dont even watch basketball. Only the big televised games and what sportscenter has to say. go cop league pass. its eye opening

1 Of course TP dominates in transition...he's the fastest player on the team

2 Your argument is still dumb because NO ONE CAN STOP HIM....so how could he possibly be useless

3 You can't win if you don't score....so he's doing what he's supposed to...doesn't matter how you look at it, you still have tooutscore the other team

4

5 Uh...yes he can. What NBA are YOU watching.


6 I said at his position....there are a total of 2 people you consider tier 1 who are better on ball defenders. D-Wil and Billups. So he can't bestopped on offense and he's a top 3 defender at his position...yea definitely not elite nor tier 1

You must be the one not watching games...your arguments have been so stupid. You started the post I quoted by saying he couldn't do what he's doingnow on any other team. He is unstoppable yet he wouldn't be on another team? No. He does what he's supposed to very, very efficiently. If his role wasto get 10 a game he could do it. You ever catch how he gets assists now? Penetrating. It's pretty common knowledge that no one is stopping him from gettingto the hole when he wants, you have to step up because...he finishes virtually everything, and you are telling me he couldn't dish to a wide open person 10times a game?

Funny dude.

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by u ttocs

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43



see the separation between Nash/Paul/Williams and Parker?

Where's the separation? Everytime Nash and Parker match up, Nash cannot guard Paker. Nash is so much better than Paker, yet he can't even guard the guy. Maybe I'm watching different games than some of you experts are. It's not like this is a one year thing either, every year Parker puts up big numbers against the Suns because nobody can stay with him.

Nash is the MVP, best player in the game yet he can't even guard a mediocure tier 2 player like Parker. Amazing

is that a serious argument?

Nash can't guard Parker so Parker is the better PG?
Nash can't guard Rajon Rondo either



i guess Rondo is a HOFer then, right?

i guess Morris Peterson at the LEAST have 3 MVPs, right?


horrible argument

 

[bonafide hustla]

1 Of course TP dominates in transition...he's the fastest player on the team

2 Your argument is still dumb because NO ONE CAN STOP HIM....so how could he possibly be useless

3 You can't win if you don't score....so he's doing what he's supposed to...doesn't matter how you look at it, you still have to outscore the other team

4

5 Uh...yes he can. What NBA are YOU watching.


6 I said at his position....there are a total of 2 people you consider tier 1 who are better on ball defenders. D-Wil and Billups. So he can't be stopped on offense and he's a top 3 defender at his position...yea definitely not elite nor tier 1

You must be the one not watching games...your arguments have been so stupid. You started the post I quoted by saying he couldn't do what he's doing now on any other team. He is unstoppable yet he wouldn't be on another team? No. He does what he's supposed to very, very efficiently. If his role was to get 10 a game he could do it. You ever catch how he gets assists now? Penetrating. It's pretty common knowledge that no one is stopping him from getting to the hole when he wants, you have to step up because...he finishes virtually everything, and you are telling me he couldn't dish to a wide open person 10 times a game?

Funny dude.

the way you talkin bout him I had to make sure I wasresponding to the right post. I swear u was talkin bout CP3 or Kobe or Bron or somethin...


1. again...i will reiterate, Tony Parker dominates the ball in transition and splits it in the half cour....he dominates the ball for the SA Spurs. nothingyou have said has refuted that

2. if no one could stop him (the way you're saying) he'd be a lot more highly coveted. fortunately the NBA's GMs as well as players aren'tmade up of people like you so when they are asked who their top 5 prospects at the PG position Tony Parker isn't mentioned.

3. this statement renders useless. you are ignoring the fact that in order to WIN scoring isn't the only thing needed. in case you were wondering whythere were people who had all these other PGs who score less than him rated higher...well thats why...because scoring isn't the only thing needed inbasketball

4. at this point I'm convinced the argument is not whether he is good, but whether he is top 5. i stated he is very good, but you acting like sayinghe's not top 5 is completely IDIOTIC.

5.

i mean i really don't know how to respond to that. you talkinlike gettin 10 dimes a game is just some ol plain jane ishh

6. If you wonder why Kidd has been an all NBA defender for much of his career, its not only b/c of footspeed and staying in front of people. There are otherattributes to defense like SIZE, STRENGTH, VERSATILITY IN WHO YOU'RE GUARDING. but how bout this....the ballots are voted on by coaches/players. WhenParker isn't mentioned in the all nba defensive teams, maybe it will make some sense to you

you are not reading my post correctly. I feel like he could still be a good scorer in any system, but it would not be nearly as effective to WINNING. andwith this whole assist thing. Im sorry but penetrate and kick isn't the entire equation to getting assists. btw sorry if im imposing, but I really wantto know how old you are

and man the way you talkin bout him, sound like this dude need to have MVP hardware

 

[mco85]

He doesn't get mentioned as a top pg because he isn't one, to inconsistent

 

[skew it on the bar b]

HE ONLY AVERAGES 6 APG, how the hell can he be considered in the same category with those guys? Parker is not even top 15 in the league in APG. he's not even better than Baron Davis, you should have made this thread about him.



Well, he was Finals MVP last year. He proves his status when it truly matters but given what Chris Paul has done this year it's hard to look atParker's resume and say and consider him a top PG. That was also probably the worst finals ever as well, so...