If Buddens and Lupe are the new Nas and Jay....

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

Did these cats improve on a design, did they do sumin new, they name ain't on check lists, who bumps Lupe?

 

[jefffort5]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

A great MC can make your auntie that hates rap bounce, like Jigga.

He can make that predicate felon that hates positivity stop and take notice, like Nas.

He can make a stone clod sinner pick up a bible, like Face.

He can bring coasts together, like BIG.

Or fuel wars in foreign countries, like Pac.

Did these cats improve on a design, did they do sumin new, they name ain't on check lists, who bumps Lupe?

love your post..because there is no chart or ranking that makes a MC great...like buddha said you'll have to wait and see...even when you said ppl werecomplaing about big and pac during their times...your doing the same thing

and to your last line...alot of ppl bump lupe...you too...you even know the line...

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by xBuddha Blessx

Regarding ya last post honsetly ya right. Not many if any new rappers with a lot of potential have come with that song that is timeless but all I can say is you have to wait. Im sure Joe could do it, right now you're judging dude off mixtapes and 1 album. Lupe I dont think he might do that but I will say that right now theres not any other artist that has done what he is doing with an album like The Cool.

You just gotta wait it out, they may surprise you

You right about that. Talent does take time to develop....and don't get me wrong I don't think these cats are trash, just severely flawed in theirpackaging.

But off top you knew BIG was a problem, Hov was a master, Nas would be legendary, Rakim was elite. They caused change from the gate, the elevated the game inan instant.

How long has Buddens been out for again? And what has he done in the time?

 

[abeautifulhaze]

jefffort5 wrote:

and to your last line...alot of ppl bump lupe...you too...you even know the line...


Thats exactly my point...I bump and you do....but outside of Hip-Hop junkies that can tolerate educated lyrics, who is ever going to check for dude?

People that don't even like Hip-Hop, mess with Jay. Single moms that are stuck in the soul era admire Nas. Middle aged white men like Bill Maher, still dowhole skits about Biggie because he had that strong of an impact. Lupe doesn't even appeal to the vast majority of young Hip-Hop heads, not that he shouldchange his music to suit everyone....but all of the greats created an undeniable formula...even if you hated Pac or Big...you had to recognize their talent.Lupe is a niche rapper and Buddens is an above averge mixtape spitter. Thats it.

 

[clarkkent415]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

jefffort5 wrote:

and to your last line...alot of ppl bump lupe...you too...you even know the line...

Thats exactly my point...I bump and you do....but outside of Hip-Hop junkies that can tolerate educated lyrics, who is ever going to check for dude?

People that don't even like Hip-Hop, mess with Jay. Single moms that are stuck in the soul era admire Nas. Middle aged white men like Bill Maher, still do whole skits about Biggie because he had that strong of an impact. Lupe doesn't even appeal to the vast majority of young Hip-Hop heads, not that he should change his music to suit everyone....but all of the greats created an undeniable formula...even if you hated Pac or Big...you had to recognize their talent. Lupe is a niche rapper and Buddens is an above averge mixtape spitter. Thats it.


Jay-Z didn't get that public notoriety until Vol II dropped and Lupe is only on his 2nd album so...give it time.

Buddens, I don't know about _though...

 

[jefffort5]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

jefffort5 wrote:

and to your last line...alot of ppl bump lupe...you too...you even know the line...

Thats exactly my point...I bump and you do....but outside of Hip-Hop junkies that can tolerate educated lyrics, who is ever going to check for dude?

People that don't even like Hip-Hop, mess with Jay. Single moms that are stuck in the soul era admire Nas. Middle aged white men like Bill Maher, still do whole skits about Biggie because he had that strong of an impact. Lupe doesn't even appeal to the vast majority of young Hip-Hop heads, not that he should change his music to suit everyone....but all of the greats created an undeniable formula...even if you hated Pac or Big...you had to recognize their talent. Lupe is a niche rapper and Buddens is an above averge mixtape spitter. Thats it.


i dont know many moms who bump nas or even know who he is...but thats just me....biggie and pac are so profoundly mostly because of their deaths and thethey way they left the game, and how they continously are being put in the media, either clothinig, new albums, or 20/20 specials about the conspiracy behindtheir deaths....jay has become a popular figure beyond hip-hop essentially because of his business en devours.....so all in all, the people who listen to hiphop now are bombarded by a vast majority of garbage..and it takes time to become a legend like jay and nas are...so lets give it time...and these ppl outsideof hip hop that mess with these artist..i bet money they couldn't recite a single line from any other their songs...maybe a melody of a hook...thats it

 

[finessesosa]

.you had to recognize their talent. Lupe is a niche rapper and Buddens is an above averge mixtape spitter. Thats it.
so what do you want of these dudes?...you acting like Nas came straight in the game getting props when he wasnt and same for Hov...Nas was gettingdubbed as a Rakim copycat and Hov aint even pop till later on in his career...how is Lupe a niche rapper putting bars together like that and how you comparingBudden to dudes like Writer or a dude just above a mixtape rapper like Papoose or something?

the game changed my dude...you gotta deal with it

 

[ak nako]

wow...

 

[dmv is rnb]

But off top you knew BIG was a problem, Hov was a master, Nas would be legendary, Rakim was elite. They caused change from the gate, the elevated the game in an instant.
Yea but come on B... what can you really expect?
This transcends rap.... it's every genre these days.

Off top, everyone knew Mary was gonna be a problem. Everyone knew R.Kelly would be a legend. We seen Usher jump out the gate and we said damn... thats likethe next MJ right there. We seen Beyonce jump out in the late 90's and we was like

... she can perform like Janet, but she can blow like Mariah.

Who is gonna fill that void right now? Every generation takes steps back. For every Usher that can sing AND dance, we fall back to now where we'reexcited by someone like Chris Brown and Omarion and we call them the next big thing. For WHAT? They ain't even talented like that. They don't amazeyou in the same way. For every Beyonce, we have these lil lip synchin breezies like Cassie who don't have an ounce of talent.

Keyshia Cole is cool... and I dig her. But come on now... her music is NOT inspiring. She don't touch your soul. You don't feel her emotion and herpain. It's just not the same. In fact, it's ALL the same. "Let It Go"... "I Shoulda Let You Go"... "I ShouldaCheated." Broad needs to learn some damn CREATIVITY and VARIETY

.

You hear Trey Songz and you hear a dude who can sing his$+#* off. And then you also hear mixtape quality CD's with weak content and wack$+#* songwriting. His latest album is absolute garbage... and someone who can sing like him, there really is no excuse to put out albums like that. None.

We had Jodeci. We had Boyz II Men. We had Dru Hill.

Now we got B2K, and B5???

Every generation we take massive steps back. At this point, it's to be expected son. Face it... there are no potential legends in the game today. Atleast not right now...

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Y'all are buggin....or maybe forget about the buzz when those dudes first popped.

Nas copped 5 mics early and had the whole hood passing around bootlegg "Illmatic" cassettes. Even other MCs had to take notice.

Hov's buzz was major before RD even dropped. "Ain't no N' " was all over the radio, "BK finests" was causing whiplash and"DP" and "Feelin It" was all over Rap City. Just off of dudes swag, the Lexus GS became a classic whip.

BIG and Pac were bigger alive than they are dead, so that argument ain't valid. These dudes were on top of the world.

"Keep Ya Head up"......"One More Chance".....Y'all wylin....these artists made the entire music world stop and take a good look atHip-Hop.

 

[strawberry milkshakes]

@ STILL hoping hip-hop will come back

n's just throw in the towel, give it up, you dudes like those cats who just cant stop rockin velour suits and bald fades, its done duke,

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by DMV is RNB

But off top you knew BIG was a problem, Hov was a master, Nas would be legendary, Rakim was elite. They caused change from the gate, the elevated the game in an instant.

Yea but come on B... what can you really expect?
This transcends rap.... it's every genre these days.

Off top, everyone knew Mary was gonna be a problem. Everyone knew R.Kelly would be a legend. We seen Usher jump out the gate and we said damn... thats like the next MJ right there. We seen Beyonce jump out in the late 90's and we was like

... she can perform like Janet, but she can blow like Mariah.

Who is gonna fill that void right now? Every generation takes steps back. For every Usher that can sing AND dance, we fall back to now where we're excited by someone like Chris Brown and Omarion and we call them the next big thing. For WHAT? They ain't even talented like that. They don't amaze you in the same way. For every Beyonce, we have these lil lip synchin breezies like Cassie who don't have an ounce of talent.

Keyshia Cole is cool... and I dig her. But come on now... her music is NOT inspiring. She don't touch your soul. You don't feel her emotion and her pain. It's just not the same. In fact, it's ALL the same. "Let It Go"... "I Shoulda Let You Go"... "I Shoulda Cheated." Broad needs to learn some damn CREATIVITY and VARIETY

.

You hear Trey Songz and you hear a dude who can sing his$+#* off. And then you also hear mixtape quality CD's with weak content and wack$+#* songwriting. His latest album is absolute garbage... and someone who can sing like him, there really is no excuse to put out albums like that. None.

We had Jodeci. We had Boyz II Men. We had Dru Hill.

Now we got B2K, and B5???

Every generation we take massive steps back. At this point, it's to be expected son. Face it... there are no potential legends in the game today. At least not right now...

Thats exactly the point I'm trying to make. These dudes just ain't carrying the torch the way they should. And they have the talent to do it, they justain't putting all of the element together properly.

As much as I hate Cam sometimes...he has the formula downpact. He learned from Jay, Dame and Big. He knows how to attract listeners, ENTERTAIN and hype aproject. Thats why suburban kids are running around with Dipset bandannas and alot of ghetto youth worship Byrd gang like a religion. You can be the nicest MCon the planet....if you don't create an enticing product...you are going nowhere fast...especially with the music industry being the way it is now.

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

^ Yea I dont what dude was sayin with NaS n illmatic but Jigga he wasnt even gettin a strong enough buzz my way(brooklyn) like that until after the fact aroundthe time vol.1 dropped(I'll never understand why tho)

I like how DMV is RNB made the example with R&B he's 100% right dudes say hip hop is dead smh listen to some of the stuff gettin play n it aint rightno more maxwells or case's

But back on the point I kno what you sayin cuz I too have been lookin at the game now and its gonna probably catch you by surprise who takes on that roll. Imiss Pac a lot dudes music was on another level but Im not gonna challenge the artists today with his legacy or his impact. We gonna be able to see who thoseartists will be when it happens. Joe n Lupe are technically struggling cuz look at it with sales today most of them dont have that extra motiviation. To expectthem come with a joint like Juicy off strictly for the love of the game? They doin exactly what I would actually Ns aint buyin my shh so I'll make themusic I want to make. Even tho it seems like an ofcourse answer Im not sure if Lupe or Joe came with a joint like I Ruled The World or Changes or anything onthat level that they would start sellin, the factor of the sales in the industry today is also a reason why to an extent.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by xBuddha Blessx

They doin exactly what I would actually Ns aint buyin my shh so I'll make the music I want to make.

Good point.

That could be these dudes thought process. But they are selling themselves way short doing that.

 

[dmv is rnb]

They doin exactly what I would actually Ns aint buyin my shh so I'll make the music I want to make.

Word. But my whole thing is... why would someone intentionally want to make boring%#@$ music? I'm sorry... you can be nice as ++*#, but if youaren't interesting and you can't relate to the people, then what are you even here for?

Isn't that the reason we even listen to music? To unite...to emotionally connect with....to inspire?

I'm not inspired by the majority of the stuff these N's is talkin about.

A lot of N's is nice. But part of being nice is knowing how to make that connection with people, and they don't have it.

Legends are made because they become champions for the people. You can only become someone's hero if you inspire them and you form that connection. Andthese dudes is lacking that ability.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

DMV is RNB wrote:
A lot of N's is nice. But part of being nice is knowing how to make that connection with people, and they don't have it.

Legends are made because they become champions for the people. You can only become someone's hero if you inspire them and you form that connection. And these dudes is lacking that ability.


EXACTLY WHAT IM TRYING TO GET AT.

 

[powfo]

As much as I hate Cam sometimes...he has the formula downpact. He learned from Jay, Dame and Big. He knows how to attract listeners, ENTERTAIN and hype a project. Thats why suburban kids are running around with Dipset bandannas and alot of ghetto youth worship Byrd gang like a religion.
So if it was up to YOU would you have Lupe change so that he could relate to suburban kids? By the way, you know how many skater white boys arestill bumpin KICK PUSH

Lupe as far as impact can't compare to jay, big, pac or nas and maybe he never will but you really need to chill for a second.


EDIT: In my eyes, Lupe is inspiring people. Lupe is making intellectual more mainstream. Lupe is so smart that dudes are startin to think that understandingsome of his crazy metaphors is GOOD/COOL. So in my eyes Lupe is influencing people. Maybe not QUITE the way Pac and BIGGIE did... but still I believe inLupe.

 

[jefffort5]

^ co-sign

 

[imsolesick]

^^^ cosign too.
lupe fiasco > best rapper in the game right now.

---

The scientists said it only infects the mind
The little boy said it only infects the girls
The Preacher said it's gonna kill off the soul
A bum said it's gonna kill off the world...

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Understanding metaphors has been a part of Hip-Hop from day one scrap. And dudes like Comm, Black Thought, Talib and Mos need to be given the accolades forbigging up intellectual rap before you think about mentioning Lupe.

 

[free the chief]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

Im about to start cheking for Enya or some $%+$ cause the Hip-Hop I grew to know and love is a reynolds....There is no denying that these cats are lyrically brilliant, but I would rather shoot H than sit down and listen to their entire albums. One dude has those extraordinary conscious anthems, that are melodic and well put together. Tracks that can awaken even the most callous gangsta and make dudes remeber why they love "rap"....Then he steps in the booth, buttons up the blazer, tightens up the tie....nerdboy is alive.

Lupe can come off as the corniest human being on the face of the Earth at times. Talking about dinosaur bones, gerbils (

) and yellow M&Ms

. I really gotta be in a mood to listen to this Hip-Hop Urkel. Dumb it down N'...Dumb it Down.

In reality its not about making the music stupider though. Its about making it more accesible, memorable and understandable. I don't want to hear all the stupid $%+$ you got on your mind....Just spit fire and deal with the topic at hand Pointdexter. I was really checking for this dude to take the game to where it needs to be, but hes just a hypebeast Canibus with less cred.

And Joey.....

This emo N' has got to be on the rag. He yaps like a 16 y/o cheerleader with unlimited mobile to mobile minutes. This dude wants to address every subject in his boring+!#% life...every thought he ever had, every incident that every happened in the last 5 years, every emotion he ever felt....Shut the +*!! up N'.....more flames, less "you wouldn't believe what happened to me today....".

He needs to cut those unneccesary bars out and stick to the atomic bomb punchlines and metaphors that he is capable of. No one wants to hear a major label album full of the kind of tracks that are on MM3 (except maybe allen3xis). I really tried to give this dude a shot, but I can't F with his voice and his constant blabberin....If I want to hear a cranky bird whine, i'll actually listen to my girls stories. I'll mess with Joel Ortiz anyday before I bump a solo Joey album. Like MJ, his best days were in the Triangle Offense, with Fab and Stack. Plusdude can't whip up a single for the life of him, so his career is really over before it started.

Give me the old Nasir, Jay-Hov, AZ, D-Block, Duck Down, Wu $%+$, Southernplayalistic Kast, Face, Loso sport...sht like that.

This new era of Terry Cloth rap is not my cup of tea.

And THAT'S what really grinds my gears...back to you Tom Tucker...hehehehehe..

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

Yo DMV Is RNB you a 100% right but a dude like Pac was still making music he wanted to make. I see what you saying but it goes hand in hand with what music youwanna make

abeautifulhaze you mention Cam and ya right but I find it funny with dudes transition he basically gave up what he wanted to do for the fame n recognition cuznobody was rockin with him in dem SDE COF days he had to change the flow get a whole new production team to get where he at now. Id say you right again cuzJigga has done the same on a bigger scale but even he did an album he wanted to do(KC I think) but dudes did not have that fromthe get go

Im sayin to be put in their shoes with that its harder thatn you think to all of a sudden connect with everyone or every hip hop fan in some way.

Look at it like this maybe dudes like Lupe n Joe are paving the way for dudes to do music similar to them n make it more popular. I see exactly what you sayinbut I see it from the other side just as well. All in all I dont think some hip hop artists are not doin enough but I wouldnt say Lupe is one of them afterhearin The Cool, Joe does need to step it up n both need to to reach that next level.

 

[chozin87]

Honestly I can understand where you're going with this a lil bit about them not being accessible to everybody. But, this hip hop thing isnt for everybody.I find myself arguing with people who listen to it, but sometimes I just realize it's not important to them. So, as far as making quality hip hop Ican't fault those guys.

I'm not the biggest Lupe fan, he always seems to drop when I'd rather listen to something else (MM3 this time) but I havent heard anything thatelicited such a negative emotion so I'll withold judgement on him. But Joe, he explains himself several time if you're actually listening to him. Inthe simplest terms he's making music to show how he's feeling with mood muzik.

It's not always the best, but people relate and I think Joe should keep doing what he's doing. I really wouldn't be interested if he started beingeverybody else. Joe's strength is a lot of current rappers weaknesses when I think about it, he's able to show his vulnerability and emotion withoutseeming soft, or just making wack songs. Some people do it and it seems really forced and I'd rather they just went back to their punchlines.

The difference with Joe is he's able to go back and forth IMO, but when he's not making music to sell I don't see why he should try to appeal tothe masses. As they say b's buy records but n's do what b's do. So, knowing that Joe knows how to spit for the females without being really wackdude still has a chance to sell. On an album that gets released on a major label I would expect Joe to switch up his subject matter and not have it all be moodmuzik. His album, is proof of that with a couple of songs that would fit in the category of mood muzik and a bunch of other solid songs IMO

 

[the black james bond]

I think Lupe is like a Van Gogh....won't be fully appreciated until he is long gone, sad but true
EDIT: I think him only doing 3 albums isn't helping his case either b/c he may not be fully developed into what someone like a Jay or Nas or Big was insuch a time span

And I think an appropriate word in this debate would be "zeitgeist" (no not that dumb movie) but like the spirit of the times, like DMV dude said,Hip Hop and R&B alike are suffering from a severe lack of talent, so it may just be everyone as a whole, but trust we will make it out

 

[ussjme]

I really gotta be in a mood to listen to this Hip-Hop Urkel. Dumb it down N'...Dumb it Down.

In reality its not about making the music stupider though. Its about making it more accesible, memorable and understandable. I don't want to hear all the stupid $%+$ you got on your mind....Just spit fire and deal with the topic at hand Pointdexter. I was really checking for this dude to take the game to where it needs to be, but hes just a hypebeast Canibus with less cred.

And Joey.....

This emo N' has got to be on the rag. He yaps like a 16 y/o cheerleader with unlimited mobile to mobile minutes. This dude wants to address every subject in his boring+!#% life...every thought he ever had, every incident that every happened in the last 5 years, every emotion he ever felt....Shut the +*!! up N'.....more flames, less "you wouldn't believe what happened to me today....".