If Dennis Rodman gets into the HOF, so will Ben Wallace...do you agree w. that statement?

[doublejs07]

Personally, I think Dennis Rodman should....he hasn't gotten inducted (yet), but I think he will get there eventually. For his size, he did some of themost remarkable things on the basketball court defensively that you could ever see. IMO, he had one of the highest b-ball IQ's of anyone associated withthe NBA. Now on the flip, if Dennis Rodman DOES make the HOF, does that clear the path for a guy like Ben Wallace? Wallace has more DPOY awards, moreAll-Star appearance, and like Rodman, he is undersized....I think things would have been totally different for Wallace had he played in Rodman's era. It's not to discredit Ben, but it's more of how I feel the NBA changed over the years. In comparing the two:

Rodman
[table][tr][td]YEAR[/td] [td]TEAM[/td] [td]G[/td] [td]GS[/td] [td]MPG[/td] [td]FG%[/td] [td]3P%[/td] [td]FT%[/td] [td]OFF[/td] [td]DEF[/td] [td]RPG[/td] [td]APG[/td] [td]SPG[/td] [td]BPG[/td] [td]TO[/td] [td]PF[/td] [td]PPG[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 86-87[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]15.0[/td] [td].545[/td] [td].000[/td] [td].587[/td] [td]2.10[/td] [td]2.20[/td] [td]4.30[/td] [td].7[/td] [td].49[/td] [td].62[/td] [td]1.21[/td] [td]2.20[/td] [td]6.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 87-88[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]32[/td] [td]26.2[/td] [td].561[/td] [td].294[/td] [td].535[/td] [td]3.90[/td] [td]4.80[/td] [td]8.70[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td].91[/td] [td].55[/td] [td]1.90[/td] [td]3.30[/td] [td]11.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 88-89[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]8[/td] [td]26.9[/td] [td].595[/td] [td].231[/td] [td].626[/td] [td]4.00[/td] [td]5.40[/td] [td]9.40[/td] [td]1.2[/td] [td].67[/td] [td].93[/td] [td]1.54[/td] [td]3.60[/td] [td]9.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 89-90[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]43[/td] [td]29.0[/td] [td].581[/td] [td].111[/td] [td].654[/td] [td]4.10[/td] [td]5.60[/td] [td]9.70[/td] [td].9[/td] [td].63[/td] [td].73[/td] [td]1.10[/td] [td]3.40[/td] [td]8.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 90-91[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]33.5[/td] [td].493[/td] [td].200[/td] [td].631[/td] [td]4.40[/td] [td]8.10[/td] [td]12.50[/td] [td]1.0[/td] [td].79[/td] [td].67[/td] [td]1.15[/td] [td]3.40[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 91-92[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]40.3[/td] [td].539[/td] [td].317[/td] [td].600[/td] [td]6.40[/td] [td]12.30[/td] [td]18.70[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td].83[/td] [td].85[/td] [td]1.71[/td] [td]3.00[/td] [td]9.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 92-93[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]62[/td] [td]55[/td] [td]38.9[/td] [td].427[/td] [td].205[/td] [td].534[/td] [td]5.90[/td] [td]12.30[/td] [td]18.30[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td].77[/td] [td].73[/td] [td]1.66[/td] [td]3.20[/td] [td]7.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 93-94[/td] [td]SAS[/td] [td]79[/td] [td]51[/td] [td]37.8[/td] [td].534[/td] [td].208[/td] [td].520[/td] [td]5.70[/td] [td]11.60[/td] [td]17.30[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td].66[/td] [td].41[/td] [td]1.75[/td] [td]2.90[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 94-95[/td] [td]SAS[/td] [td]49[/td] [td]26[/td] [td]32.0[/td] [td].571[/td] [td].000[/td] [td].676[/td] [td]5.60[/td] [td]11.20[/td] [td]16.80[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td].63[/td] [td].47[/td] [td]2.00[/td] [td]3.20[/td] [td]7.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 95-96[/td] [td]CHI[/td] [td]64[/td] [td]57[/td] [td]32.6[/td] [td].480[/td] [td].111[/td] [td].528[/td] [td]5.60[/td] [td]9.30[/td] [td]14.90[/td] [td]2.5[/td] [td].56[/td] [td].42[/td] [td]2.16[/td] [td]3.10[/td] [td]5.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 96-97[/td] [td]CHI[/td] [td]55[/td] [td]54[/td] [td]35.4[/td] [td].448[/td] [td].263[/td] [td].568[/td] [td]5.80[/td] [td]10.20[/td] [td]16.10[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [td].58[/td] [td].35[/td] [td]2.02[/td] [td]3.10[/td] [td]5.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 97-98[/td] [td]CHI[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]66[/td] [td]35.7[/td] [td].431[/td] [td].174[/td] [td].550[/td] [td]5.30[/td] [td]9.80[/td] [td]15.00[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td].59[/td] [td].23[/td] [td]1.84[/td] [td]3.00[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 98-99[/td] [td]LAL[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]11[/td] [td]28.6[/td] [td].348[/td] [td].000[/td] [td].436[/td] [td]2.70[/td] [td]8.50[/td] [td]11.20[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td].43[/td] [td].52[/td] [td]1.35[/td] [td]3.10[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td] 99-00[/td] [td]DAL[/td] [td]12[/td] [td]12[/td] [td]32.4[/td] [td].387[/td] [td].000[/td] [td].714[/td] [td]4.00[/td] [td]10.30[/td] [td]14.30[/td] [td]1.2[/td] [td].17[/td] [td].08[/td] [td]1.58[/td] [td]3.40[/td] [td]2.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td] Career[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]911[/td] [td]573[/td] [td]31.7[/td] [td].521[/td] [td].231[/td] [td].584[/td] [td]4.80[/td] [td]8.40[/td] [td]13.10[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td].67[/td] [td].58[/td] [td]1.63[/td] [td]3.10[/td] [td]7.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td] Playoff[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]169[/td] [td]89[/td] [td]28.3[/td] [td].490[/td] [td].149[/td] [td].540[/td] [td]3.70[/td] [td]6.20[/td] [td]9.90[/td] [td]1.2[/td] [td].63[/td] [td].57[/td] [td]1.53[/td] [td]3.70[/td] [td]6.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td] All-Star[/td] [td]
[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]18.0[/td] [td].364[/td] [td].000[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]5.00[/td] [td]3.50[/td] [td]8.50[/td] [td].5[/td] [td].50[/td] [td].50[/td] [td]2.00[/td] [td]1.00[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [/tr][/table]
Wallace
[table][tr][td]YR[/td] [td]TM[/td] [td]G[/td] [td]GS[/td] [td]MIN[/td] [td]FG[/td] [td]FG%[/td] [td]3P[/td] [td]3P%[/td] [td]FT[/td] [td]FT%[/td] [td]STL[/td] [td]BLK[/td] [td]TO[/td] [td]PF[/td] [td]OFF[/td] [td]DEF[/td] [td]TOT[/td] [td]AST[/td] [td]PTS[/td] [/tr][tr][td]96-97[/td] [td]WAS[/td] [td]34[/td] [td]0[/td] [td]5.8[/td] [td]0.5-1.4[/td] [td].348[/td] [td]0.0-0.0[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]0.2-0.6[/td] [td].300[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]1.0[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.1[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]97-98[/td] [td]WAS[/td] [td]67[/td] [td]16[/td] [td]16.8[/td] [td]1.3-2.4[/td] [td].518[/td] [td]0.0-0.0[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]0.5-1.5[/td] [td].357[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]3.2[/td] [td]4.9[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]3.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]98-99[/td] [td]WAS[/td] [td]46[/td] [td]16[/td] [td]26.8[/td] [td]2.5-4.3[/td] [td].578[/td] [td]0.0-0.0[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]1.0-2.9[/td] [td].356[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [td]5.4[/td] [td]8.4[/td] [td]0.4[/td] [td]6.0[/td] [/tr][tr][td]99-00[/td] [td]ORL[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]24.2[/td] [td]2.1-4.1[/td] [td].503[/td] [td]0.0-0.0[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]0.7-1.4[/td] [td].474[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]2.6[/td] [td]5.6[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]4.8[/td] [/tr][tr][td]00-01[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]34.5[/td] [td]2.7-5.5[/td] [td].490[/td] [td]0.0-0.1[/td] [td].250[/td] [td]1.0-3.0[/td] [td].336[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]3.8[/td] [td]9.4[/td] [td]13.2[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]6.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]01-02[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]80[/td] [td]36.5[/td] [td]3.2-6.0[/td] [td].531[/td] [td]0.0-0.0[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]1.2-2.9[/td] [td].423[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]2.2[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [td]9.0[/td] [td]13.0[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]7.6[/td] [/tr][tr][td]02-03[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]73[/td] [td]73[/td] [td]39.4[/td] [td]2.9-6.0[/td] [td].481[/td] [td]0.0-0.1[/td] [td].167[/td] [td]1.2-2.6[/td] [td].450[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]3.2[/td] [td]1.2[/td] [td]2.5[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [td]11.4[/td] [td]15.4[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]6.9[/td] [/tr][tr][td]03-04[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]37.7[/td] [td]3.9-9.2[/td] [td].421[/td] [td]0.0-0.1[/td] [td].125[/td] [td]1.8-3.6[/td] [td].490[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [td]8.4[/td] [td]12.4[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]9.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]04-05[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]74[/td] [td]74[/td] [td]36.1[/td] [td]4.0-8.8[/td] [td].453[/td] [td]0.0-0.1[/td] [td].111[/td] [td]1.8-4.1[/td] [td].428[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]2.1[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [td]12.1[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]9.7[/td] [/tr][tr][td]05-06[/td] [td]DET[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]35.2[/td] [td]2.9-5.7[/td] [td].510[/td] [td]0.0-0.0[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]1.5-3.6[/td] [td].416[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]2.2[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]3.7[/td] [td]7.6[/td] [td]11.3[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]7.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]06-07[/td] [td]CHI[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]77[/td] [td]35.0[/td] [td]2.5-5.5[/td] [td].453[/td] [td]0.0-0.1[/td] [td].200[/td] [td]1.4-3.5[/td] [td].408[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]3.9[/td] [td]6.7[/td] [td]10.6[/td] [td]2.4[/td] [td]6.4[/td] [/tr][tr][td]07-08[/td] [td]CHI[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]50[/td] [td]32.5[/td] [td]2.0-5.4[/td] [td].373[/td] [td]0.0-0.1[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]1.1-2.5[/td] [td].424[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]1.0[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]3.5[/td] [td]5.3[/td] [td]8.8[/td] [td]1.8[/td] [td]5.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]…[/td] [td]CLE[/td] [td]22[/td] [td]22[/td] [td]26.3[/td] [td]1.7-3.7[/td] [td].457[/td] [td]0.0-0.0[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]0.9-2.0[/td] [td].432[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]1.6[/td] [td]2.7[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [td]7.4[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]4.2[/td] [/tr][tr][td]08-09[/td] [td]CLE[/td] [td]53[/td] [td]53[/td] [td]24.0[/td] [td]1.2-2.8[/td] [td].437[/td] [td]0.0-0.0[/td] [td].000[/td] [td]0.5-1.1[/td] [td].431[/td] [td]0.9[/td] [td]1.4[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]2.5[/td] [td]4.1[/td] [td]6.6[/td] [td]0.8[/td] [td]3.0[/td] [/tr][/table]
and their accolades:

Rodman

Honors: NBA champion (1989, '90, '96, '97, '9; Defensive Player of the Year (1990, '91); All-NBA Third Team (1992, '95); All-Defensive First Team (1989, '90, '91, '92, '93, '95, '96); Two-time NBA All-Star (1990, '92).


Wallace

Won an NBA Championship in 2004 with the Detroit Pistons…named the NBA's Defensive Player of the Year four times (2002, 2003, 2005, 2006)…a four-time NBA All-Star selection (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006)…named to the NBA All-Defensive First Team five times (2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006)…named All-NBA Second Team in 2003, 2004 and 2006…named All-NBA Third Team in 2002 and 2005…named NBA All-Defensive Second Team in 2007…named NBA's Player of the Week five times in his career (twice in 2001-02, once in 2002-03 and twice during the 2003-04 season).


So what do you all think? Or could you see Wallace getting into the HOF and NOT Rodman? It could happen....

 

[high class scum bag]

i think rodman will get into hall of fame eventually, but his off the court antics overshadow what he did on the court....i still feel wallace is a long shot.

 

[CP1708]

To me, I'd like to see Dennis get in based solely on his rings.

Ben to me hasn't done enough with just one ring. If he gets another one, then we can talk.

But to me, Dennis just seems more Hall worthy then Ben at this point. No knock on Ben, just how I feel right now.
If Ben got in and Rob Horry doesn't, I'm gonna go CRAZY!!!

 

[downtown43]

Rodman is one of the greatest rebounders of all time, and he has the rings.

Wallace is one of the greatest defensive players of all time (FOUR DPOYs speak for themselves), and he also has a ring.

they both have to get in, IMO.

 

[trasoul82]

Oh hell no.... If you wonder if Ben Wallace will make it to the HoF, please just pose the question. This comparison is ridiculous.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Oh hell no.... If you wonder if Ben Wallace will make it to the HoF, please just pose the question. This comparison is ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous....I'll wait for an explanation...

 

[lazyj10]

At least Rodman USED to be able to score, somewhat, with the Pistons. Obviously those teams were deep enough that he could take a back seat and focus onboards. Ben Wallace has never sniffed an offensive game in his entire career.

 

[guillermo gutierez]

he played for the Mavs?

 

[sdfbheat]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Rodman is one of the greatest rebounders of all time, and he has the rings.

Wallace is one of the greatest defensive players of all time (FOUR DPOYs speak for themselves), and he also has a ring.

they both have to get in, IMO.

^^^pretty much sums it up right there...

two very similar players...scrappy rebounders who aren't afraid to get in your face "literally" on defense...both deserve it

 

[ryanbbn1]

i think rodman is one of the best nba players of all time. i also think wallace is one of the most overrated players in the league.

wallace DPOYs were a #%*+@. rodman guarded the best player on the team, he guarded shaq. wallace just helped off the ball bc he would be guarding jeff foster.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by GUILLERMO GUTIEREZ

he played for the Mavs?

Back when he was livin in Cuban's backyard.

You'll notice it didn't last too many games.

 

[tmoney85]

wow, just look at Rodmans rebounding. honestly, thats all motivation to get rebounds, and positioning. i mean, it just shows how lazy some of these big men arethese days, guys like dampier avg less rebounds then a guard. Rodman is ONE OF THE GOAT and its sad how the NBA protects its image by sweeping him under therug.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by CP1708

If Ben got in and Rob Horry doesn't, I'm gonna go CRAZY!!!

If you're comparing Ben Wallace to Robert Horry in terms of being HOF material, looks to me you're crazy already. The ONLY argument you have for RobertHorry is that he won. He has NO individual credentials whatsoever. The closest he has to an individual honor is that he made the all-rookie second team in hisrookie year. 0 awards of any kind. 0 all-star appearances. Was never even the third best player on any team he ever played on, with the possible exception ofthe 95-96 Rockets. No statistical accomplishments whatsoever. Other than games played in playoffs.. Robert Horry is just an extreme case of a player being atthe right place at the right time multiple times. Both when it came to being on the right team that season and being the right place on the court to hit somebig shots.

Individual accomplishments rank higher than winning when it comes to HOF. If they didn't, Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing wouldn't be in the Hall andSteve Kerr and John Salley would. And yes, I've used this logic correctly for once on this forum, unlike when someone says something stupid like "Soare you saying that Bill Wennington is better than Karl Malone just because he has a ring?" when someone disagrees after someone says that some goodplayer with a ring is better than some other good player without a ring. Robert Horry as an individual is closer to Steve Kerr and John Salley than CharlesBarkley and Patrick Ewing.

Now, back to Ben. Unlike Horry, he won AND has some notable individual accomplishments (4 x DPOY, multiple all-star appearances, leading the league in reboundsand blocks, etc..). And unlike Horry, he has actually led his team to a championship, and was the backbone of a championship team. Rodman is THE greatestrebounder in NBA history and that ranks higher than what Ben has done, but Ben's HOF apply resumé is solid.

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Oh hell no.... If you wonder if Ben Wallace will make it to the HoF, please just pose the question. This comparison is ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous....I'll wait for an explanation...

Anyone who has seen both play knows it is ridiculous to compare the two. You can't just go off of a few stat sheets. Anyway, Rodman has 5rings to Ben's 1, consisting of a back-to-back and then a 3-peat. A 72 win season. First forward to win back-to-back rebounding titles, leading the leaguein rebounding for 7 consecutive years in a row. Plus you just can't put plays like this:

on paper. Worm's hustle and athleticism was out of this world. Again, I'm not saying Ben should not be considered for the Hall. But if he somehowdoesn't get in it would be silly to look to Rodman as a benchmark from which to plead Ben's case.

 

[lilstarz07]

wel im trying to figure out where youre coming from ... either youre a bulls fan or i dunno what ... cuz if you were able to watch rodman, then you are oldenough to thoroughly watch ben ... and that means you watched him DOMINATE the league on the defensive end like few have EVER ... rodman could rebound andhustled, ben wallace could be placed in the middle and completely change the opposing teams offense ...

dude was defensive player of the year 4 times ...

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Oh hell no.... If you wonder if Ben Wallace will make it to the HoF, please just pose the question. This comparison is ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous....I'll wait for an explanation...

Anyone who has seen both play knows it is ridiculous to compare the two. You can't just go off of a few stat sheets. Anyway, Rodman has 5 rings to Ben's 1, consisting of a back-to-back and then a 3-peat. A 72 win season. First forward to win back-to-back rebounding titles, leading the league in rebounding for 7 consecutive years in a row. Plus you just can't put plays like this:

on paper. Worm's hustle and athleticism was out of this world. Again, I'm not saying Ben should not be considered for the Hall. But if he somehow doesn't get in it would be silly to look to Rodman as a benchmark from which to plead Ben's case.

Xtap summed it up nicely

Now, back to Ben. Unlike Horry, he won AND has some notable individual accomplishments (4 x DPOY, multiple all-star appearances, leading the league in rebounds and blocks, etc..). And unlike Horry, he has actually led his team to a championship, and was the backbone of a championship team. Rodman is THE greatest rebounder in NBA history and that ranks higher than what Ben has done, but Ben's HOF apply resumé is solid.




anyways....it's easier to compare the two than you may think. If Rodman was such a sure-bet for the HOF, he would have been inducted by now. I think theworld of his game. Undersized, tenacious, and gave 110% each time he was on the court. He has the championships, all-star appearances, and hardware....but,for all of those categories I just named, you can say the same for Ben Wallace. I honestly think that for Ben Wallace to get into the HOF, Rodman has to getinducted first. I just don't see how you can't look at the two players in the same light when discussing HOF potential.

 

[bonafide hustla]

the argument for Ben Wallace is fair/debatable, but your question isn't really. if that makes any sense. basically i can see someone arguing for gettinghim in, but not on the basis of Rodman getting in.

 

[bonafide hustla]

and these dudes peaked in two entirely different eras which to me is a heavy outlier

and why the %#!# are rings brought up so much around here. how much does that really matter when we are talking about one player. it seems like people arebecoming parrots for that shh and its mad annoying. Jordan obviously did a bunch of carrying his team when they needed it but the bulls were actually a goodTEAM. this is actually starting to irk me how much i hear it

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

TraSoul82 wrote:

---

Oh hell no.... If you wonder if Ben Wallace will make it to the HoF, please just pose the question. This comparison
is ridiculous.

How is it ridiculous....I'll wait for an explanation...

Anyone who has seen both play knows it is ridiculous to compare the two. You can't just go off of a few stat sheets. Anyway, Rodman has 5 rings to Ben's 1, consisting of a back-to-back and then a 3-peat. A 72 win season. First forward to win back-to-back rebounding titles, leading the league in rebounding for 7 consecutive years in a row. Plus you just can't put plays like this:

on paper. Worm's hustle and athleticism was out of this world. Again, I'm not saying Ben should not be considered for the Hall. But if he somehow doesn't get in it would be silly to look to Rodman as a benchmark from which to plead Ben's case.





It's not "ridiculous" to compare the two:

5 rings > 1 - Rodman
4 DPOYs > 2 - Ben
4 time all-star > 2 Ben
7 rebounding titles > 2 Rodman
1 time leader in blocks > 0 Ben

They both have 2 all-NBA 3rd team selection, but Ben also has 3 all-NBA 2nd team selections.

Like I said, the sheer magnitude of Rodman's rebounding-related accomplishments outweighs what Ben has done, but Ben has also had some pretty impressiverebounding numbers and unlike Rodman also had great blocks and steals stats. It makes perfect sense for me to compare the two, because they were the same typeof player who had a great impact on the game without being offensively gifted.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

CP1708 wrote:

---

If Ben got in and Rob Horry doesn't, I'm gonna go CRAZY!!!

If you're comparing Ben Wallace to Robert Horry in terms of being HOF material, looks to me you're crazy already. The ONLY argument you have for Robert Horry is that he won. He has NO individual credentials whatsoever. The closest he has to an individual honor is that he made the all-rookie second team in his rookie year. 0 awards of any kind. 0 all-star appearances. Was never even the third best player on any team he ever played on, with the possible exception of the 95-96 Rockets. No statistical accomplishments whatsoever. Other than games played in playoffs.. Robert Horry is just an extreme case of a player being at the right place at the right time multiple times. Both when it came to being on the right team that season and being the right place on the court to hit some big shots.

Individual accomplishments rank higher than winning when it comes to HOF. If they didn't, Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing wouldn't be in the Hall and Steve Kerr and John Salley would. And yes, I've used this logic correctly for once on this forum, unlike when someone says something stupid like "So are you saying that Bill Wennington is better than Karl Malone just because he has a ring?" when someone disagrees after someone says that some good player with a ring is better than some other good player without a ring. Robert Horry as an individual is closer to Steve Kerr and John Salley than Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing.

Now, back to Ben. Unlike Horry, he won AND has some notable individual accomplishments (4 x DPOY, multiple all-star appearances, leading the league in rebounds and blocks, etc..). And unlike Horry, he has actually led his team to a championship, and was the backbone of a championship team. Rodman is THE greatest rebounder in NBA history and that ranks higher than what Ben has done, but Ben's HOF apply resumé is solid.
No problem whatsoever with what you said here. No, I wasn't really comparing Ben to Robert, was just trying to explain the difference in whatI perceive with Ben and Dennis. I was sayin that Dennis has more rings, they both played simialar games, so if I was forced to choose ONLY one of the two,Dennis would get my vote.
In a way, this is very similar in that thread with AI and Isiah. Both great, but one of them won, the other didn't, that could be a deciding factor inwho's better, etc etc.

As for me with Horry, I throw myself at the mercy of the hall of fame court. To me (this is just me) I think Horry deserves sort of a special inclusion. AndI am glad you brought up Steve Kerr.
Kerr won what, 5 rings? Is that right? 3 with the Bulls and 2 with the Spurs if I'm not mistaken. However, Kerr was never even a STARTER for any ofthose teams. I don't think Kerr started for any team in his life did he?

But, he did hit a couple clutch shots, he did contribute to a ring or two. So asking me, is Kerr worthy? No, not really.

But for Horry. He was a starter on all of his teams, except towards the end of his career with the Spurs, and his first title with the Lakers. (AC Green wasthe starter that year). Now the difference in starting and not starting doesn't really do anything in terms of stats or whatever, he was never really astats guy, but ask yourself this. If you personally were going to make a DVD of the history of the NBA. Something for people to watch 80 years from now. Thegreatest plays, moments, players, whatever in the history of the NBA, how many special moments would involve one Robert Horry? Think about that. The only guythat would get more face time in the DVD for more big shots, more clutch plays, more big moments, would be Mike Jordan. Horry has done that much. So whatI'm saying is, you couldn't even show a DVD of the history of the NBA WITHOUT showing Big shot Rob multiple multiple times. It just wouldn't bepossible.
The only other thing I could add is Robert is the only player in the history of the game, ALL TIME, to win multiple chips with THREE teams. Couple guys havedone it with two, someone may have won at least one ring with 3 teams, I dunno about that, but I know that NO ONE, has multiple's with 3 teams. To me,that carries a little more weight then a guy who was all NBA 3rd team for one season or whatever.

And, people may not remember, but had he not been injured in his Houston days, Robert was very much a high fly act. He had a lotta game, alot of athleticism. He could have had an ever better regular season career without that, but if I'm him, I'd be happy with the 7 rings. Even more then Michael.

 

[brrraptors]

Rodman > Wallace

Rodman was a beast of a rebounder but wallace is a better shot blocker. although neither had much of an offensive game, dennis was a better scorer. in hisprime his athleticism and hustle was amazing to watch. he brought some intangibles such as his tenacity, attitude and a presence on the court that i dont thinkben can match. and 5 rings > 1 ring.

 

[i nasmatic i]

Rob didn't start in 00-01 either...Horace Grant was starting that year.

 

[doublejs07]

CP....what about the coma that Robert Horry is perpetually in during the regular season? You have to look at the ENTIRE resume, not just what he does in theplayoffs for HOF consideration IMO. Yes, he's clutch...but if you are going to make a debate for Horry and his rings, then you have to do the same forSteve Kerr and Jon Salley (obviously I'm kidding, but you get the point).....

 

[trasoul82]

Okay... By "comparison" I mean "question" like bonafied hustla just pointed out. Sure you could call Ben Wallace a "poor man'sRodman", but that's as far as I would take it. They are in the same category and they both have the hardware to prove their success asdefensive-minded players. But to answer your original question: No, I don't agree with that statement.

 

[trasoul82]

double post