If Dennis Rodman gets into the HOF, so will Ben Wallace...do you agree w. that statement?

Oh no doubt, Horry be sleep walkin all year durin the regular season, but I'm sorry, I don't care.

This may cause a few people to log off/put me on ignore for life
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, buttake Amare Stoudemire. That dude gets more meaningless last minute buckets in the regular season then anyone I have ever seen. I'm serious, go look howmany times Suns down 10, minute to go, Nash pick and roll with Stat, easy dunk as no one wants to foul him. 20 seconds later after the other team hits theirfree throws, Nash pick and roll with stat, dunk, repeat again in 15 seconds. Stat goes from 20 points, to 28 points in the last minute and people be like"OMG OMG OMG, STAT IS SUCH A BEAST, OMG OMG TWENTY EIGHT POINTS................

Like really? That matters to someone? Not to me it doesn't. If Horry wants to sleep walk thru the regular season and then go crazy in the postseason,guess what, I'm all for it. I don't care what anyone says, if there was a gun to my head and I had to choose one player to play PF in a game 7 and myonly options were Stat and Rob, Horry is suitin up. Period.


Yes, I know that Stat once had a magical couple games against Tim Duncan in the playoffs. I think the Spurs won that series though right? Stat's stats =meaningless. I swear on it.


There probably isn't a big enough flame suit for me right now, so go ahead..........
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I think you have to let Ben in. At one point in his career he was the most dominant defensive force in the league.. He was the best defensive player on one ofthe best defensive teams in the post hand check era.

I mean he posted some absurd numbers for the time he played. I think at some point he accounted for over 54% of missed shots rebounded while he was on thecourt. I think 9.4% of shots taken were blocked by Ben Wallace.

1 out of 10 shots taken got sent back, crazy....
 
Rodman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wallace

and im the guy who watched Big Ben through his best years with the Pistons.
 
Rodman without a doubt in my mind is a HOFer.

I dont think that it's fair to compair championship rings between Rodman and Big Ben. While Rodman was a huge contributor to those championship teams, heplayed with some of the greatest players of all time.

Big Ben should get into the HOF but I dont think it'll be first ballot. He has a 75% chance of getting in, IMO.

No way in he.ll Robert Horry should get in. Give me an effin break. His individual credentials are non-existent.

BTW, is Dikembe Mutombo a sure HOFer? I dont remember ever having this discussion here on NT, but I say he has a 95% chance of getting in.
 
No, I don't agree with that statement. You can say Rodman is the greatest rebounder ever and receive very little argument. In Ben's case, there arejust too many question marks when it comes to him being that great of a defensive player.

I also don't see the relation between the two, in terms of HOF consideration.
 
Originally Posted by sdfbheat

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Rodman is one of the greatest rebounders of all time, and he has the rings.

Wallace is one of the greatest defensive players of all time (FOUR DPOYs speak for themselves), and he also has a ring.

they both have to get in, IMO.
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^^^pretty much sums it up right there...

two very similar players...scrappy rebounders who aren't afraid to get in your face "literally" on defense...both deserve it
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agree 100%
 
Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

Rob didn't start in 00-01 either...Horace Grant was starting that year.
Click to expand...


Nah Dennis started some games that year. I remember when he got the ball after tipoff, he would just flip it behind his head to the backcourt.. HellaNonchalantly. My whole block bought that 73 laker jersey. He was that dude.
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What Dennis Rodman did was absurd, especially for his size. If it wasn't for his off court antics, he would have been in the HOF. Also, Rodman played inan era where defense was more valued than it is today. Sometimes it felt like Wallace won the DPOY award because there wasn't another candidate on hislevel, because no one else was trying as hard on the defensive end. Rodman's era had more elite big men, along with more defensive elite players. If itwasn't for Mutombo, Hakeem, etc. Rodman would have received more love in the awards category.

On the same token, teams were putting up more shots back in the day, more rebound opportunities.

The reason I would say Ben Wallace SHOULD NOT be in the Hall is that his body of work is so small. He was on a defensive minded team, when every other team inthe NBA forgot to play decent defense. Big Ben was only dominant for about 6 seasons, while Rodman's body of work extends to over a decade.

Cliffnotes:
Rodman -Yes
Wallace -No
 
IMO, it doesn't matter how "watered down" your era is defensively. If you win 4 DPOYs, you are a HOFer.

and IronMan, you said what Rodman did was absurd for his size. but was it not also absurd for a 6'8-6'9 Ben Wallace to lead the league in reboundingmultiple times?

i don't think we should be arguing whether Rodman was better than Wallace. the point is, both of them should be HOFers.
 
Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43


Wallace is one of the greatest defensive players of all time (FOUR DPOYs speak for themselves), and he also has a ring.
Click to expand...
Stats and awards are cool, but I think most who watched both play would say Rodman was the better defender of the two.
 
Originally Posted by el producto79

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43


Wallace is one of the greatest defensive players of all time (FOUR DPOYs speak for themselves), and he also has a ring.
Click to expand...
Stats and awards are cool, but I think most who watched both play would say Rodman was the better defender of the two.
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no.

no, no, and no. i would actually like to see who else here would agree with that statement.


Rodman was a solid position defender on the Pistons, but on the Bulls he was just a scrappy, dirty player on the defensive end. he was NOT completely changinggames with his defense like Ben Wallace was. i suppose you could consider his defensive rebounding as part of defense, because he was preventing the other teamfrom scoring while creating extra possessions for his team. but even when you do that, Rodman does not add up to Ben Wallace's overall impact on the gamedefensively.
 
you cant really measure how Rodman played. his rebounding stats are awesome but he was just all over the place. ben wallace is not in his league
 
Ben Wallace was the most important defensive player on on of the best defensive squads in history. While it's true that Rasheed Wallace is a better man toman defender and was given tougher defensive assignments. Ben Wallace helped every player on the court with his lane intimidation, the perimeter players couldcheat more knowing Ben was back there, he was the anchor for the entire defense.


[table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Player[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]PER[/th] [th=""]TS%[/th] [th=""]eFG%[/th] [th=""]ORB%[/th] [th=""]DRB%[/th] [th=""] TRB%[/th] [th=""] AST%[/th] [th=""]STL%[/th] [th=""]BLK%[/th] [th=""]TOV%[/th] [th=""]USG%[/th] [th=""]ORtg[/th] [th=""]DRtg ▴[/th] [th=""]OWS[/th] [th=""]DWS[/th] [th=""]WS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]Ben Wallace[/td] [td]29[/td] [td]81[/td] [td]3050[/td] [td]17.3[/td] [td].441[/td] [td].422[/td] [td]12.5[/td] [td]25.5[/td] [td]19.1[/td] [td]7.7[/td] [td]2.6[/td] [td]6.1[/td] [td]12.3[/td] [td]15.3[/td] [td]98[/td] [td]87[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]8.9[/td] [td]9.9[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3[/td] [td]Rasheed Wallace[/td] [td]29[/td] [td]22[/td] [td]673[/td] [td]18.8[/td] [td].495[/td] [td].470[/td] [td]5.6[/td] [td]20.8[/td] [td]13.3[/td] [td]11.5[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]5.1[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]23.2[/td] [td]102[/td] [td]91[/td] [td]0.7[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]2.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]11[/td] [td]Tayshaun Prince[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]82[/td] [td]2701[/td] [td]13.3[/td] [td].536[/td] [td].507[/td] [td]4.0[/td] [td]12.5[/td] [td]8.4[/td] [td]12.4[/td] [td]1.3[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]13.2[/td] [td]15.6[/td] [td]106[/td] [td]98[/td] [td]2.9[/td] [td]4.5[/td] [td]7.3[/td] [/tr][tr][td]13[/td] [td]Chauncey Billups[/td] [td]27[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]2758[/td] [td]18.6[/td] [td].550[/td] [td].459[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]10.0[/td] [td]5.8[/td] [td]29.3[/td] [td]1.7[/td] [td]0.2[/td] [td]13.6[/td] [td]23.5[/td] [td]112[/td] [td]99[/td] [td]6.9[/td] [td]4.1[/td] [td]11.1[/td] [/tr][tr][td]14[/td] [td]Richard Hamilton[/td] [td]25[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]2772[/td] [td]16.8[/td] [td].522[/td] [td].462[/td] [td]3.3[/td] [td]8.3[/td] [td]5.8[/td] [td]22.2[/td] [td]2.0[/td] [td]0.5[/td] [td]13.8[/td] [td]25.7[/td] [td]103[/td] [td]99[/td] [td]3.7[/td] [td]4.3[/td] [td]7.9[/td] [/tr][/table]

So for every 100 possessions Ben Wallace gives up only 87 points this is lowest score ever recorded in terms of defense..
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[table][tr][td]1.[/td] [td]Ben Wallace[/td] [td]87.48[/td] [td]2003-04[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2.[/td] [td]Elvin Hayes*[/td] [td]87.60[/td] [td]1974-75[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3.[/td] [td]David Robinson[/td] [td]87.94[/td] [td]1998-99[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4.[/td] [td]Bob Lanier*[/td] [td]87.99[/td] [td]1973-74[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5.[/td] [td]Wes Unseld*[/td] [td]88.24[/td] [td]1974-75[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6.[/td] [td]Tim Duncan[/td] [td]88.50[/td] [td]2003-04[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7.[/td] [td]Elvin Hayes*[/td] [td]88.61[/td] [td]1973-74[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8.[/td] [td]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[/td] [td]88.76[/td] [td]1973-74[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9.[/td] [td]Clifford Ray[/td] [td]89.13[/td] [td]1973-74[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10.[/td] [td]Bill Walton*[/td] [td]89.50[/td] [td]1977-78[/td] [/tr][/table]

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Elite comapny.
 
I think both should get in. Rodman, great rebounder & the championships to go with it. Wallace, great defensive player, with a ring to go with it. Alongwith the extra accolades, it helps their cases.
 
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