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Bill Russell and Wilt beg to differ.
If Dennis Rodman gets into the HOF, so will Ben Wallace...do you agree w. that statement?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by doublejs07,
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Bill Russell and Wilt beg to differ.
trueblack88
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Rodman should DEF get in. The thing with Rodman is, Ben might have more individual accomplishments but that's simply because Rodman's image and hisoff-court antics didn't exactly make him a guy that Stern and others wanted to promote...so, he was often overlooked or ignored...
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also, rodman messed up a lot of opposing player's games. i would hate to play against rodman. i would prolly get pissed off and get ejected
xtapolapacetl
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Bill Russell and Wilt beg to differ.
They can beg all they want, but their requests will be rejected. Rodman would've averaged 30+ boards in those days. Elgin Baylor, a 6'5 SG/SF averaged19 rebounds one season in those days. You can't compare a modern rebounder to those days. There were simply put many more rebounds available to be grabbedin the 60s.
Rodman leading the league in rebounding year-in and year-out (sometimes by a huge margin) 7 times against the likes of Barkley, Olajuwon, Mutombo, DavidRobinson, Ewing, Shaq, Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp and Kevin Willis + him having the top 6 rebounding rates in league history > anything Wilt and Russell haveever done rebounding-wise.
xtapolapacetl
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Originally Posted by DaddyRabbit251
at these fools saying Ben Wallace is a HOF.
The taste of salt you had on the last day of the 2004 NBA finals still hasn't quite left your mouth, I see..
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Bill Russell and Wilt beg to differ.
They can beg all they want, but their requests will be rejected. Rodman would've averaged 30+ boards in those days. Elgin Baylor, a 6'5 SG/SF averaged 19 rebounds one season in those days. You can't compare a modern rebounder to those days. There were simply put many more rebounds available to be grabbed in the 60s.
Rodman leading the league in rebounding year-in and year-out (sometimes by a huge margin) 7 times against the likes of Barkley, Olajuwon, Mutombo, David Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp and Kevin Willis + him having the top 6 rebounding rates in league history > anything Wilt and Russell have ever done rebounding-wise.
You are making some pretty big assumptions about Russel and Wilt's rebounding capabilities. We have no way to track Bill Russel'srebounding percentage because of the NBA negligent stat tracking but Wilt Chamberlain at the end of his career averaged 19.8 rebounding percentage. WhileIt's true Rodmans career average eclipses that (23.4) we have no way of knowing what rate Wilt rebounded in his prime.
[table][tr][td]1.[/td] [td]Dennis Rodman[/td] [td]23.44[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2.[/td] [td]Swen Nater[/td] [td]21.39[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3.[/td] [td]Dwight Howard[/td] [td]20.52[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4.[/td] [td]Moses Malone*[/td] [td]19.76[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5.[/td] [td]Larry Smith[/td] [td]19.30[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6.[/td] [td]Mel Daniels[/td] [td]19.26[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7.[/td] [td]Ben Wallace[/td] [td]19.12[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8.[/td] [td]Dikembe Mutombo[/td] [td]19.09[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9.[/td] [td]Chris Dudley[/td] [td]18.76[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10.[/td] [td]Tim Duncan[/td] [td]18.40[/td] [/tr][/table]
So Wilts last and arguably weakest years of his career would still put him top 10 all time rebounding wise? Extrapolate that to his prime when he was grabbing27 rebound a game.
I just think it's going to far to unequivocally say that he is better than Russel or Wilt because there is no way of knowing.
xtapolapacetl
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Bill Russell and Wilt beg to differ.
They can beg all they want, but their requests will be rejected. Rodman would've averaged 30+ boards in those days. Elgin Baylor, a 6'5 SG/SF averaged
19 rebounds one season in those days. You can't compare a modern rebounder to those days. There were simply put many more rebounds available to be grabbed
in the 60s.
Rodman leading the league in rebounding year-in and year-out (sometimes by a huge margin) 7 times against the likes of Barkley, Olajuwon, Mutombo, David
Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp and Kevin Willis + him having the top 6 rebounding rates in league history > anything Wilt and Russell have
ever done rebounding-wise.
You are making some pretty big assumptions about Russel and Wilt's rebounding capabilities. We have no way to track Bill Russel's rebounding percentage because of the NBA negligent stat tracking but Wilt Chamberlain at the end of his career averaged 19.8 rebounding percentage. While It's true Rodmans career average eclipses that (23.4) we have no way of knowing what rate Wilt rebounded in his prime.
[table][tr][td]1.[/td] [td]Dennis Rodman[/td] [td]23.44[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2.[/td] [td]Swen Nater[/td] [td]21.39[/td] [/tr][tr][td]3.[/td] [td]Dwight Howard[/td] [td]20.52[/td] [/tr][tr][td]4.[/td] [td]Moses Malone*[/td] [td]19.76[/td] [/tr][tr][td]5.[/td] [td]Larry Smith[/td] [td]19.30[/td] [/tr][tr][td]6.[/td] [td]Mel Daniels[/td] [td]19.26[/td] [/tr][tr][td]7.[/td] [td]Ben Wallace[/td] [td]19.12[/td] [/tr][tr][td]8.[/td] [td]Dikembe Mutombo[/td] [td]19.09[/td] [/tr][tr][td]9.[/td] [td]Chris Dudley[/td] [td]18.76[/td] [/tr][tr][td]10.[/td] [td]Tim Duncan[/td] [td]18.40[/td] [/tr][/table]
So Wilts last and arguably weakest years of his career would still put him top 10 all time rebounding wise? Extrapolate that to his prime when he was grabbing 27 rebound a game.
I just think it's going to far to unequivocally say that he is better than Russel or Wilt because there is no way of knowing.
In 1971-72 Wilt had a 20.1 rebounding rate while averaging 19.2 rebounds per game. In 1991-92 Rodman had a 26.2 rebounding rate while averaging 18.7 reboundsper game. In other words, he was rebounding much more efficiently yet still averaged fewer total rebounds than Wilt. There were many more rebounds available tobe grabbed in Wilt's days. And there were even more rebounds to be grabbed in Wilt's early career. Not to mention that Wilt played 8-10-12 more minutesper game during that period than Rodman did in his prime. And like I said, the list of players that Rodman was destroying on the rebounding leaderboards isflat out more impressive than the players Wilt was leading in rebounds.
xtapolapacetl
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Man this thread makes me miss Rodman more than ever
lakersmets49ers
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rodman > ben wallace and its not even close.
people forget how rodman could get inside peoples heads. i know karl malone wasn't playing like his usual self during the 97 and 98 finals, i rememberseeing malone frustrated and annoyed during that series, and those are some of the things that stats can't show.
i remember him getting in garbahe frank brikowskis head as well during the 96 finals.
people forget how rodman could get inside peoples heads. i know karl malone wasn't playing like his usual self during the 97 and 98 finals, i rememberseeing malone frustrated and annoyed during that series, and those are some of the things that stats can't show.
i remember him getting in garbahe frank brikowskis head as well during the 96 finals.
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Hey I'm not necessarily saying that Rodman is not a better rebounder, I'm just saying their is a rather large gap in the information to really makethat claim.
I mean we really have no idea how good Bill Russel was or Wilt really for that matter so I'm not comfortable completely discounting them.
I mean we really have no idea how good Bill Russel was or Wilt really for that matter so I'm not comfortable completely discounting them.
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I dont think all star should be accounted for with the individual acolades. the all star game is different today anyways its a fans thing and to compare theforwards that rodman was going up against compared to the centers the east had when ben made it............ no one wants to watch rebounding and defense (manup, not weakside BLOCKs) in the all star games lol at least ben dunks and blocks better than rodman and thats entertaining hahah
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I found this tribute vid and it really fits Rodman very well.� It sums up his whole career perfectly.
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The thought of Bent Wallets getting into the HOF hurts my soul
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both make good arguements
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damn. i wish i had rodmans rebounding play every play mentality.
but nonetheless Ben Wallace is nowhere near him.
but nonetheless Ben Wallace is nowhere near him.
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weren't too many 6'8'' small forwards who contained the likes of Big Diesel, Pat Ewing, The Mailman, The Dream, The Admiral, McHale &Parish, Barkley, etc. defensively as well as on the boards. Rodman manned-up and took care of all the dirty work, but did it with the kind of flair &showmanship that only he could bring lol. Alot of folks are just now realizing how hard this cat worked and how much he's contributed to this game. Statsaside, there isn't really much of a comparison imo.
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They are hustle players ..they do the dirty works.. stuff that really dont show up on a stat sheet.. that's what they do best!
They're both can make a case for HOF tho..
arrjae
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if rodman makes it , ben wont...
thts what i think....
thts what i think....
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I don't agree with that statement, but I do think they'll both end up there some day.
In my opinion, they both had very different careers.
Rodman was effective virtually his entire career, and a key part in 5 championships. What he did on the boards, and for the length of time he did it, is trulyamazing. Hall of Famer, without question.
Ben Wallace was great for his 6 years in Detroit. His first season with the Bulls was solid, but I think he received much criticism due to the fact that he wasbeing paid $16 Mil/Year and putting up 6 PPG, 11 RPG & 2 BPG. I think those are solid numbers, but it's not his fault Paxson overpaid. If he gets in,it'll be because of the Championship & accolades he received while his time in Detroit.
Long story short:
- Rodman will get in because of a great career, start to finish
- Wallace will get in from his 6 years in Detroit
I don't believe the decision to make Ben Wallace a Hall of Famer will depend on whether or not Rodman gets in.
In my opinion, they both had very different careers.
Rodman was effective virtually his entire career, and a key part in 5 championships. What he did on the boards, and for the length of time he did it, is trulyamazing. Hall of Famer, without question.
Ben Wallace was great for his 6 years in Detroit. His first season with the Bulls was solid, but I think he received much criticism due to the fact that he wasbeing paid $16 Mil/Year and putting up 6 PPG, 11 RPG & 2 BPG. I think those are solid numbers, but it's not his fault Paxson overpaid. If he gets in,it'll be because of the Championship & accolades he received while his time in Detroit.
Long story short:
- Rodman will get in because of a great career, start to finish
- Wallace will get in from his 6 years in Detroit
I don't believe the decision to make Ben Wallace a Hall of Famer will depend on whether or not Rodman gets in.
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Time is not going to look fondly on Wallace when it's time to vote.
