If the healthcare bill passes.. what does it mean for doctors ?

[theconditioner]

^ Interesting post, SenatorJeffSmith.

 

[sreggie101]

what i wanna know is are there any doctors on NT

 

[carlos tevez]

Originally Posted by thytkerjobs

Originally Posted by bwood056

the people that usually strive to become doctors, will take their knowledge somewhere elsewhere.

sad but true. quality of healthcare is about to decline.

This is absolutely ridiculous and baseless.

First of all, many people decide to become Doctors because they are *gasp* genuinely interested in the profession.

Secondly, even if Doctor salaries were to decline (highly unlikely), they'd still be making way more money than the average person. There aren't manyprofessions out there that pay as well as being a Doctor. What do you guys expect...a pre-med student to be like "Thanks to this new Obama healthcarebill...the average wage of Doctors is going to decrease from $250,000 to $225,000...I think I'm just gonna pursue another career since I wont be gettingpaid enough as a Doctor". Come on now

First question is why dont you have insurance? If you say you dont have the money. My question would be do you have a cell phone, cable tv, etc. Which is more important to you your health or material goods. A lot of people complain they dont have the money for health insurance but at the same time have all the amenities that they want but dont need.
While you may be correct that some people do have the money but choose to spend it on unnecessary amenities, a lot of people (the working poor)simply can not afford health insurance. If you and your wife are new immigrants making minimum wage trying to support 3 kids, chances are likely that healthinsurance is unaffordable for you.

 

[typerpinoy]

what you will see is a change in the salary distribution. specialists will make less and PCPs will make more. ultimately you will have people that weregenuinely interested in surgery/anesthesiology/radiology/cardiology opting not to go thru the extra years of training and instead doing family practice andinternal medicine to become primary care docs. so great, now you've solved the problem and created more primary care docs but these physicians will bedissatisfied with their professions and god forbid you do need surgery...guess how long that's going to take.

 

[championedition]

Originally Posted by UTVOL23

Originally Posted by ChampionEdition

coming from a man who had a very serious virus and recived the worst healthcare in my life i pray this passes.
how much worse can it get?
no doctors? whats the difference between no doctor and one who gives you weak medicine TO MAKE SURE you come back again?
then force you into a needless surgery because your ignorant about medicine and they will make over 45k from one knee surgery?
im still going to kill that doctor in the future for ruining my knee. i cant even play basketball but he did everything "by the book"

nah... so i pray this passes so people can not have to suffer thru pain that would break most men's minds.

WOW talk about just giving talking points and regurgitating what Obama said when he was totally misinformed. Hate to break it to you but surgeons make nowhere near 45k for a surgery. The doctor only makes approx 1K give or take a few hundred based on a knee amputation as Obama stated.

What was so poor about your care and how will this bill improve your care if you just happened to have been treated by a poor physician?

dude is one of the top arthoscopic surgeons (or whatever). when i got HIS BILL (i had no insurance for personal reasons) and i paid him $44,663.33cash money. a single check for that amount.
and i had to go back 2 more times for another 24K in hospital stays.
i found out from another doctor that it all would have been avioded if My inital doctor (who i found out later thru snooping and low key stalking is thesurgeons brother in law) had given me a 7 day antiboitic iv drip. all i needed to save me all that pain.

Staph Infection

It is a normal skin germ that's harmless.until it gets into a cut. And then, untreated, says Dr. Harrison, "It gets in the bloodstream and it cancause sepsis or infection of the blood, which makes you very sick and can result in death."

this is what i had and it almost killed me. you cant tell me a $%!%!*!$#!*+* thing about no doctors. NO ONE.

 

[utvol23]

First that is the bill you received for the surgery but that is not what the physician receives. That includes the hospital fees, equipment etc etc. the docdoesnt take that home. He takes very little of that.

Second what was the source of your staph infection? How long was the infection present before seeking treatment? Was the staph infection MRSA (A highlyantibiotic resistant form of staph)? You said it was a virus but staph is a bacteria.

 

[utvol23]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by thytkerjobs

Originally Posted by bwood056

the people that usually strive to become doctors, will take their knowledge somewhere elsewhere.

sad but true. quality of healthcare is about to decline.

This is absolutely ridiculous and baseless.

First of all, many people decide to become Doctors because they are *gasp* genuinely interested in the profession.

Secondly, even if Doctor salaries were to decline (highly unlikely), they'd still be making way more money than the average person. There aren't many professions out there that pay as well as being a Doctor. What do you guys expect...a pre-med student to be like "Thanks to this new Obama healthcare bill...the average wage of Doctors is going to decrease from $250,000 to $225,000...I think I'm just gonna pursue another career since I wont be getting paid enough as a Doctor". Come on now

First question is why dont you have insurance? If you say you dont have the money. My question would be do you have a cell phone, cable tv, etc. Which is more important to you your health or material goods. A lot of people complain they dont have the money for health insurance but at the same time have all the amenities that they want but dont need.

While you may be correct that some people do have the money but choose to spend it on unnecessary amenities, a lot of people (the working poor) simply can not afford health insurance. If you and your wife are new immigrants making minimum wage trying to support 3 kids, chances are likely that health insurance is unaffordable for you.


Quoting what a posted earlier:

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

First question is why dont you have insurance? If you say you dont have the money. My question would be do you have a cell phone, cable tv, etc. Which is more important to you your health or material goods. A lot of people complain they dont have the money for health insurance but at the same time have all the amenities that they want but dont need.

Why do people have auto insurance? I am betting if the GOVT didn't require you to have auto insurance most people wouldn't care to be covered correct? So how is this any different?

If the Govt didn't mandate auto insurance requirements, most people would rather spend those extra funds on a phone, cable, video games, etc. What do you think is more important? A driver's peace of mind that a majority of drivers on the road are insured or material goods? A lot of people will complain they don't have the money for car insurance but at the same time have all the amenities that they want but don't need right?



Not really understanding your point. If the govt didnt mandate you to have auto insurance and you took it upon yourself to spend that money onother things you would be just as foolish as not having health insurance because you open yourself up to many more liabilities. Obviously auto insurance ismore important than material goods. My statement was directed at ephan cause he/she said they didnt have insurance and I was wondering why not? If it was afinancial situation there are probably other things in his lifestyle that could be cut to pay for it but people dont want to make those sacrifices they wouldrather someone else provide it for them. There are also those people who should receive subsidies b/c they are trulyimpoverished but I do not want my healthcare being controlled by the govt.

 

[championedition]

Originally Posted by UTVOL23

First that is the bill you received for the surgery but that is not what the physician receives. That includes the hospital fees, equipment etc etc. the doc doesnt take that home. He takes very little of that.

Second what was the source of your staph infection? How long was the infection present before seeking treatment? Was the staph infection MRSA (A highly antibiotic resistant form of staph)? You said it was a virus but staph is a bacteria.

virus bacteria w.e. not a big deal. and i went to the doctor IMMEDIATLY when the symptons happened (my knee was the size of a mini basketball andmy shin and calf was so hot from the inside out that it burned and ruined my skin. you can still tell the difference even now. im not going into detailsbecause i litterally almost died due to bad treatment (same doc first prescribed me pill antibiotics cause it was"just some swelling" and then gaveme a 3 day iv drip when i should have gotten 7)
but at the end of the day i spend 73K in total for something that should have cost me about 2 grand with the blood tests and iv drip and prep costs. and the45k payment was different from the hospital stay which only cost 7K.

anyways if you skip the whole details of this and just look at it from a normal non politcial stand point the doctor ran a game on me.

1.hes sick
2.my bro can do the surgery
3-6. we'll have him come back 4 times
over 9000. send bills
8.???
9 PROFIT!

 

[8tothe24]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

First question is why dont you have insurance? If you say you dont have the money. My question would be do you have a cell phone, cable tv, etc. Which is more important to you your health or material goods. A lot of people complain they dont have the money for health insurance but at the same time have all the amenities that they want but dont need.

Why do people have auto insurance? I am betting if the GOVT didn't require you to have auto insurance most people wouldn't care to be covered correct? So how is this any different?

If the Govt didn't mandate auto insurance requirements, most people would rather spend those extra funds on a phone, cable, video games, etc. What do you think is more important? A driver's peace of mind that a majority of drivers on the road are insured or material goods? A lot of people will complain they don't have the money for car insurance but at the same time have all the amenities that they want but don't need right?



And what auto insurance company does the government own?

 

[s2kray]

Originally Posted by sreggie101

what i wanna know is are there any doctors on NT

Well... not a doctor yet, but I'm currently in medical school.

My class, I feel, is split on the issue of the healthcare bill. It will no doubt increase the access to healthcare for many uninsured Americans, but whatconcerns my classmates most is the fact that most medical students graduate with 300+k in debt (not including your undergraduate debts). You have to understandthat the training to become a doctor is a LONG road. After I graduate medical school, I have to go through residency training which can take a minimum of 3years, but can go on as long as 10 years depending on the specialty of your choice. During this time you are still in training and barely making enough moneyto get by (if you have a family this is even worse). The hours are ridiculous by normal standards; a law is even in place to limit the amount of hours aresident can be at the hospital. I think its currently at 80HRs a week, but this law is repeatedly broken especially in the surgical specialties. So rememberthat 300+K loan you took out for medical school? guess what... while your still in training the interest is piling up. so aunt sallie may is going to tack on the interest until you finally get out of training and start paying your loans. My classmates are right to be uneasy about the new bill.. and I'm sure itwill discourage future physicians from going through the process...

I predict there will be a paradigm shift in the practice of medicine. Specialists will make less than what they make and primary care physicians will makesignificantly more. In turn, future doctors will be more hesitant to pursue specialty training (why would I spend more years training to be a neurosurgeon if Ican make almost the same amount of money as the family practice guy?) The government will provide increased access to healthcare for the uninsured but waitinglines to get procedures done by specialists will get LONG (much like in canada).

Do I think it's a good idea? I don't know. Time will tell... either way I couldn't picture myself doing anything else. I'll be happy eitherway... but this is a sneaker forum and if I had more money i'd have more sneakers. j/k

 

[throwedindagame]

Originally Posted by s2kray

Originally Posted by sreggie101

what i wanna know is are there any doctors on NT

Well... not a doctor yet, but I'm currently in medical school.

My class, I feel, is split on the issue of the healthcare bill. It will no doubt increase the access to healthcare for many uninsured Americans, but what concerns my classmates most is the fact that most medical students graduate with 300+k in debt (not including your undergraduate debts). You have to understand that the training to become a doctor is a LONG road. After I graduate medical school, I have to go through residency training which can take a minimum of 3 years, but can go on as long as 10 years depending on the specialty of your choice. During this time you are still in training and barely making enough money to get by (if you have a family this is even worse). The hours are ridiculous by normal standards; a law is even in place to limit the amount of hours a resident can be at the hospital. I think its currently at 80HRs a week, but this law is repeatedly broken especially in the surgical specialties. So remember that 300+K loan you took out for medical school? guess what... while your still in training the interest is piling up. so aunt sallie may is going to tack on the interest until you finally get out of training and start paying your loans. My classmates are right to be uneasy about the new bill.. and I'm sure it will discourage future physicians from going through the process...

I predict there will be a paradigm shift in the practice of medicine. Specialists will make less than what they make and primary care physicians will make significantly more. In turn, future doctors will be more hesitant to pursue specialty training (why would I spend more years training to be a neurosurgeon if I can make almost the same amount of money as the family practice guy?) The government will provide increased access to healthcare for the uninsured but waiting lines to get procedures done by specialists will get LONG (much like in canada).

Do I think it's a good idea? I don't know. Time will tell... either way I couldn't picture myself doing anything else. I'll be happy either way... but this is a sneaker forum and if I had more money i'd have more sneakers. j/k

Finally some responses from those on the other side of the argument.


Good post.

 

[38816]

well, the government probably needs to set up loan repayments and more grants and scholarships in medical fields..

which I don't doubt they'll do considering all the current "top talent" will be in sudan where they'll be appreciated...

and if not, you'll still see more cake than me...so haysh

 

[s2kray]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

well, the government probably needs to set up loan repayments and more grants and scholarships in medical fields..

which I don't doubt they'll do considering all the current "top talent" will be in sudan where they'll be appreciated...

and if not, you'll still see more cake than me...so haysh

I don't plan on leaving the country and don't know any US doctor who's looking to leave. I think that's just a ridiculousassumption. If the bill passes and money isn't as good as it was in the past.. it sure as hell isn't better anywhere else.

I am just voicing the thoughts of what goes through the minds of most medical students in regards to the future. 300k+ with interest is not an easy hole todig yourself out of.

 

[los yankees]

Originally Posted by ChampionEdition

dude is one of the top arthoscopic surgeons (or whatever). when i got HIS BILL (i had no insurance for personal reasons) and i paid him $44,663.33 cash money. a single check for that amount.
and i had to go back 2 more times for another 24K in hospital stays.
i found out from another doctor that it all would have been avioded if My inital doctor (who i found out later thru snooping and low key stalking is the surgeons brother in law) had given me a 7 day antiboitic iv drip. all i needed to save me all that pain.

Staph Infection

It is a normal skin germ that's harmless.until it gets into a cut. And then, untreated, says Dr. Harrison, "It gets in the bloodstream and it can cause sepsis or infection of the blood, which makes you very sick and can result in death."

this is what i had and it almost killed me. you cant tell me a $%!%!*!$#!*+* thing about no doctors. NO ONE.

First of all a staph infection is common among any type of invasive procedure. Secondly, antibiotics make you more vulnerable against infection because theysuppress your immune system. Your initial doctor was actually in the right about not giving you too much for that reason, the second doctor was playing defensemedicine. With all those papers a patient signs before a procedure, you probably skipped over the part of the where you might be experience edema, minor gradefever, or drainage from the incisions post-op.

I'm doing a orthopaedic rotation and I can call you out on lying about paying over 40k for a arthroscopic knee surgery. After a patient is out withanesthesia scoping a knee take 30-45 minutes tops. The National average cost for a arthroscopic knee surgery is a little over 4k according to the Department ofHealth and Human Services and for Medicare it isnt even 1k for reimbursement.

This is absolutely ridiculous and baseless.

First of all, many people decide to become Doctors because they are *gasp* genuinely interested in the profession.

Secondly, even if Doctor salaries were to decline (highly unlikely), they'd still be making way more money than the average person. There aren't many professions out there that pay as well as being a Doctor. What do you guys expect...a pre-med student to be like "Thanks to this new Obama healthcare bill...the average wage of Doctors is going to decrease from $250,000 to $225,000...I think I'm just gonna pursue another career since I wont be getting paid enough as a Doctor". Come on now

Man, you have no clue what you are talking about. I'm becoming a doctor because, yes, I love medicine and appreciate the human body, but I also chose itbecause it is a high reward profession. We take the most tedius classes while in undergrad, when we finally get into medical school after months and months ofstudying for the MCATs, we are shut out from the rest of the world to study, when we get to doing residencies we are working 12+ hour shifts FOR FREE. So youactually think that people are going to pursue a career with a low reward with a long school career? You think its easy to do what we do? You think it takes a12 week semester to know how your body will react to a certain medicine or how to use a fiber optic camera a sew up a ligament?

Here lies another person who throws out a number out of thin air and thinks they know what they are talking about when talking about other peoples salaries.The average annual salary for doctors is not 250k, there are only three type of docs that average 200k or more; Anesthesiologists, some types of surgeons, andOB/GYN all of which pay the highest in malpractive premiums depending on the state if the state permits them not to carry, so no they dont take home anywhernear 250k.

Why do people have auto insurance? I am betting if the GOVT didn't require you to have auto insurance most people wouldn't care to be covered correct? So how is this any different?

If the Govt didn't mandate auto insurance requirements, most people would rather spend those extra funds on a phone, cable, video games, etc. What do you think is more important? A driver's peace of mind that a majority of drivers on the road are insured or material goods? A lot of people will complain they don't have the money for car insurance but at the same time have all the amenities that they want but don't need right?

Jesus Christ. The point of the state mandated auto insurance is to cover other people involved, not YOU.

 

[rexanglorum]

SunDOOBIE wrote:

---

Now that I read your post, I can take it for it is which is your opinion.

Opinion or not, Just remember that not all opinions are equal when it comes to any given subject.


Let me ask you though, the tax cut bill that GW Bush signed into law back in 2001, the one that has cost over 1.3 Trillion dollars had the same type of forecasting. Economists predicted the same doom and gloom. I even remember economists posting advertisements in major newspapers condemning that bill. No one back in 2001 could predict the outcome of that bill so my whole point is we can argue over this health care bill to death but no one and I mean no one has traveled to the future and can predict what will truly happen.

It is unwise to try to predict with absolute precision. All I am doing is saying what usually happens when government sets prices, taxes certain things, subsidizes certain things and creates distortions. It tends to cause resources to be poorly allocated and if that happens with health care there will even more pain, suffering and death than we hav under our already imperfect system.


I guess my point is let Obama do what he promised he would do. Bush promised tax cuts during his campaign so he delivered. Obama is working on health care reform just as he pledge he would during his campaign so let him deliver on his promise.

No one in politics is owed any thing. Bush was not owed support for his agenda and neither is President Obama.I do not care about Obama's political agenda or the political fail out of him failing to pass what he wants. I want to see pain, suffering and death reduced or at least not expanded.




Craftsy, you bring up an interesting question when you say,

Rex, your insight is always appreciated - but I do think sometimes you pretend to be a lot less bias than you actually are. Even though you'reprobably more researched than anybody on NT in this matter, there are plenty of people just as researched as you on the complete opposite side of the fence,who think the net benefits from a "universal healthcare program" of some type outweigh the negatives.


What do you say to those analysts/researchers/etc?

Single payer is not without genuine merits. It would have tremendous monopsonic power and could push down the cost not just of medicines but also doctorservices, hospital service and even the cost of medical school. A single payer system could theoretically use economies of scale to hold down administrativecosts and off course single payer serves as a sort of insurance.

The problems is that all of these assumption rest on purely theoretical groups that have virtually no empirical evidence to support it. Government isnotorious for overpaying for many things even when it is the single buyer. The idea that a government run system would be very lean and efficient is laughable.Finally, the insurance aspect of single payer (paying through taxation and avoiding costly medical bills) also is double edged sword because of the strongpropensity for rationing and outright denial of many treatments.

 

[typerpinoy]

Originally Posted by Los Yankees

Originally Posted by ChampionEdition

dude is one of the top arthoscopic surgeons (or whatever). when i got HIS BILL (i had no insurance for personal reasons) and i paid him $44,663.33 cash money. a single check for that amount.
and i had to go back 2 more times for another 24K in hospital stays.
i found out from another doctor that it all would have been avioded if My inital doctor (who i found out later thru snooping and low key stalking is the surgeons brother in law) had given me a 7 day antiboitic iv drip. all i needed to save me all that pain.

Staph Infection

It is a normal skin germ that's harmless.until it gets into a cut. And then, untreated, says Dr. Harrison, "It gets in the bloodstream and it can cause sepsis or infection of the blood, which makes you very sick and can result in death."

this is what i had and it almost killed me. you cant tell me a $%!%!*!$#!*+* thing about no doctors. NO ONE.

First of all a staph infection is common among any type of invasive procedure. Secondly, antibiotics make you more vulnerable against infection because they suppress your immune system. Your initial doctor was actually in the right about not giving you too much for that reason, the second doctor was playing defense medicine. With all those papers a patient signs before a procedure, you probably skipped over the part of the where you might be experience edema, minor grade fever, or drainage from the incisions post-op.

I'm doing a orthopaedic rotation and I can call you out on lying about paying over 40k for a arthroscopic knee surgery. After a patient is out with anesthesia scoping a knee take 30-45 minutes tops. The National average cost for a arthroscopic knee surgery is a little over 4k according to the Department of Health and Human Services and for Medicare it isnt even 1k for reimbursement.

You're gonna scare everyone away from taking antibiotics now. Prolonged antibiotics make people more susceptible to OPPORTUNISTIC infections,not infections in general. So if your on something for weeks for prophylaxis against chronic bronchitis or recurrent pneumonia b/c you have COPD then yes, youare at increased risk for things like c diff and some diarrhea. But your average course of Amoxicillin or anything for that matter will NOT increase your riskof sepsis.

What the dude doesnt understand is that there is a protocol for treating every case of sepsis and they are all done the same way and all treated empirically.Sure it could staph but it could also be any of thousands of other bacteria. How do you know what it is? Blood cultures. How long do those take to yieldresults? 3 days. So either we dont give you anything or we give you some very broad spectrum antibiotics and hope the bug is susceptible. When the culturecomes back we switch your meds up accordingly. This happens thousands of times every day across the country. If your docs didn't do things the way the waythey did you most likely would have died. But of course you don't see it that way. Playing the victim card here.

My guess is he skipped over the part about proper post-op care and the fact that infection is a risk during any medical procedure.

 

[feeninlikejodeci]

very interesting thread...ill have to read the rest later