IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[sea manup]

who would have thought, neil johnston was a better player than kobe

 

[tommyicerocking]

I don't think Kobe Bryant is overrated, once he retires, he will end up in my top 10 players off all time, probably ranked somewhere between Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

*My ranking is based on career/peak/prime (in that order)

 

[longstroke]

Ok well say, the most efficient players of all time is the title. That is not what the topic title mentions.
But you do know by going that route, you don't take into consideration rings, playoff success, and influence?
What are you using? PER? Efficieny rating? What?
I am not changing anything, YOU are changing the argument to Most Efficient.

Nope, you've suggested that opinion was the weakness in the argument, right?

Once you eliminate opinion, you now must deal with DATA. The only way to determine who is best, is to see who is most efficient at their position, thus determining who is best.

Efficiency isn't a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.

Agree?

How efficient is Kobe Bryant? 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

How efficient is Kobe Bryant? 

Again I ask you, what metric are you using?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

So this is what should be used to determine the all time rankings? That clear and cut right?

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating - www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

 

[longstroke]

Again I ask you, what metric are you using?

Your choice.

BTW, this has already been done and published.

 

[longstroke]

So this is what should be used to determine the all time rankings? That clear and cut right?
NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating - www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

You found it.

Cool.

Kobe is not top five there either.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You found it.

Cool.

Kobe is not top five there either.

I understand that, but again, who argued that Kobe was Top 10/5 all time in efficiency?

Nobody. So don't "cool" me as if you made a point that somebody was disagreeing with.

 

[jamazing]

sorry, i came late into this discussion. Are you guys talking about kobe's efficiency? I'm slightly confused. Or is one of you arguing his lack of effiency? Just clarifying.

 

[longstroke]

I understand that, but again, who argued that Kobe was Top 10/5 all time in efficiency?
Nobody. So don't "cool" me as if you made a point that somebody was disagreeing with.

Are you serious?

Okay, since you don't want well researched arguments, fact backed opinion, and you surely don't want to use facts and figures, statistical data, how would you draw your conclusion on who are the top ten players in NBA history?

Lies and fallacy? Rumor and innuendo?

 

[tennhouse2]

Lol did u really say no veterens or peers ever said kobe was the furture of the nba :x? That's litterally what everyone and there mom daid about kobe in his younger days

 

[girlslovewaffles]

23 pages for a Kobe hate thread?

Only on NT.

 

[essential1]

So this is what should be used to determine the all time rankings? That clear and cut right?

NBA

You found it.

Cool.

Kobe is not top five there either.

So DWade is now the 6th Greatest Player of All Time?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Are you serious?

Okay, since you don't want well researched arguments, fact backed opinion, and you surely don't want to use facts and figures, statistical data, how would you draw your conclusion on who are the top ten players in NBA history?

Lies and fallacy? Rumor and innuendo?

Ok I don't know if you are being serious now or not.

The discussion was Top 10, not Top 10 most efficient.

Those are two different arguments man.

 

[longstroke]

You see, here is the big joke about Kobe fans here on Nike Talk, if Kobe Bryant were at the top of this list, or anywhere near Jordan, they'd use it to support their Kobe is top five argument with the quickness...but since he is not...

1.	Michael Jordan*	27.91
2.	LeBron James	27.25
3.	Shaquille O'Neal	26.43
4.	David Robinson*	26.18
5.	Wilt Chamberlain*	26.13
6.	Dwyane Wade	25.63
7.	Chris Paul	25.45
8.	Bob Pettit*	25.35
9.	Tim Duncan	24.78
10.	Neil Johnston*	24.69
11.	Charles Barkley*	24.63
12.	Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*	24.58
13.	Magic Johnson*	24.11
14.	Karl Malone*	23.90
15.	Dirk Nowitzki	23.63
16.	Hakeem Olajuwon*	23.59
17.	Larry Bird*	23.50
18.	Kobe Bryant	23.46
19.	Kevin Garnett	23.28
20.	Oscar Robertson*	23.17
21.	Yao Ming	23.02
22.	Jerry West*	22.90
23.	Kevin Durant	22.82

[th=""]Rank[/th][th=""]Player[/th][th=""]PER[/th]

...and LeBron is, Kobe's fans here will ignore it, then say something against it.

It's expected. 

Denial, denial, denial.

 

[sea manup]

sorry, i came late into this discussion. Are you guys talking about kobe's efficiency? I'm slightly confused. Or is one of you arguing his lack of effiency? Just clarifying.

 

[jamazing]

In no particular order (most likely my top 10)

Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Bill Russell
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Tim Duncan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Oscar Robertson
Wilt Chamberlain

Kobe Bryant could arguably be put at #9 or #10 if I had an order.

What is everyone's top 10? All things considered? Prime, overall career, rings, etc.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

So LS, answer this.

PER, is an "efficient" means of ranking the all time greats in the NBA?

So you are fine with THAT list being the final list of all time NBA Greats?

 

[jamazing]

thanks for the heads up man I appreciate it.

DC, Longstroke, where do you guys rank Kobe? That is if you have a list?

 

[Maximus Meridius]

This dude is trying so hard

 

[longstroke]

So LS, answer this.
PER, is an "efficient" means of ranking the all time greats in the NBA?
So you are fine with THAT list being the final list of all time NBA Greats?

I'm fine with the measurement of such data, as it was a huge part of my personal top ten all time choices.

The only thing I did different, was to break up the era in which they played. If you measure the players from each era, it breaks down a bit differently.

 

[presequel]

Neil Johnston #10 GOAT

 

[DCAllAfrican]

To me, from what EYE have experienced, I would say Kobe is SG#2.

Can only speak on what I know of. I never saw West.

 

[jamazing]

To me, from what EYE have experienced, I would say Kobe is SG#2.
Can only speak on what I know of. I never saw West.

I'd agree with you. I'd put Kobe at #2 for SG as well. But where do you rank him all time?

 

[longstroke]

thanks for the heads up man I appreciate it.
DC, Longstroke, where do you guys rank Kobe? That is if you have a list?

For me, he winds up around fifteen, but mine are done in chronological order.

Jordan is the best, but I mark him up as being the best of his era. I respect each era, then do not try and compare any.

Someone was ridiculous to bring up the Sugar Hill Gang in regard to relevance, comparing them to Mikan. Well, if it were not for James Brown, there'd be no Hip Hop at all.

Same for Mikan. If he failed to gain any attention, there'd be no NBA.