IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[essential1]

Dirk had just won the MVP award & won the most games of any team since the '96 Bulls.
That isn't comparable to what happened to Duncan or Kobe in those years at all.
Neither one of those guys ever lost in the first round in their primes with homecourt advantage.
Duncan was 34 years old & far far away from his peak, particularly in that year, & those Laker teams were only competitive because Kobe had the most prolific scoring season since Jordan in '88, and even with that they were still only a 7th seed.

I'm not disagreeing with you. That laker team was bad. Duncan was old and ginobili was injured.

But blowing a 3-1 lead and tanking the second half of game 7 is as bad as Dirk against the Warriors IMO.

I'm not calling Kobe overrated. I'm arguing that individually you can make a case for dirk and Duncan being as good or better that decade.

They were down 31-15 after the 1st quarter though... THAT's not tanking.

Down 60-45. Kobe had 23 points at half.

Clearly him scoring at high volumes wasn't going to do it. They had to change up their approach.

After 3 they were down 90-65. It's a lost cause there.


He scored 50 in Game 6. Shooting 20-35. They lost.
Game 5. 29 they lost.
Game 4 Kobe saved the day. Twice.

 

[al3xis]

Having the willingness and longevity to play 17 (likely 1 consecutive years of a professional sport at an extremely high level is an impressive accomplishment, period. You have to acknowledge that.

I did.

Kobe isn't the only player to have come out of HS. I could take your argument and ask, if playing for 17 years at an All-Star level is so easy why aren't all the straight-to-NBA players doing it? Why aren't Tmac, Jermaine O'Neal, Rashard Lewis, etc still putting up All-Star numbers? The one other HS guy who is even remotely close, just so happens to be a HOFer and is also known as a tough mf'er (Garnett).

Cause a lot of them sucked and the only one besides KG who had big time talent was TMac..

other HS guys had significant injuries (McGrady) or just weren't that talented to start with to discuss

We'll have to wait and see how LeBron, Dwight, Carmelo, KD and the elite guys hold up. I bet they do..we've already seen it's already happening..


If I include Kobe this season: 14 players will have made All NBA 1st or 2nd team at age 34 or older. 9 of those have occurred in 1997 or later.

Only six All-NBA 1st Team players from 1948-1979 even had careers that lasted past age 35: Kareem, Havlicek, Hayes, Moses, Baylor, Wilt.

Conversely, 22 players that made All NBA 1st Team from 1980-2012 had careers that lasted past age 35. So, over the same time period that number almost was almost multiplied 4 times and that's with a handful of current players heading toward 35+ but not there yet (ie Dirk)

Evolution, Medicine, technology, easier travel, $ incentives - you name it. We've already seen guys play longer and I don't see why that won't continue to be the case.

which leads me back to this:

When you look at his all time ranking this has to be taken into account

What Kobe is doing is fairly rare. and it's really impressive. You and others are right - it's not just the years but how good he still is. But, It's difficult to take into account longevity now compared to then when comparing all time great players. Same resources and opportunities were not available. Numbers bear this out.

 

[eracism]

I thought this was an old thread. Y'all went ham on Thanksgiving.

 

[pepperjackchees]

I agree.
He doesn't make anybody on his team better.
If kobe had the same team MJ he would probably request a trade 3 games into the season.

2005-2006 Lakers

54 Kwame Brown
8 Kobe Bryant
17 Andrew Bynum
43 Brian Cook
3 Devean George
11 Devin Green
24 Jim Jackson
2 Aaron McKie
14 Stanislav Medvedenko
31 Chris Mihm
7 Lamar Odom
1 Smush Parker
9 Laron Profit
21 Ronny Turiaf
18 Sasha Vujacic
23 Von Wafer
4 Luke Walton

Obviously no superstars, but a bunch of solid players.

 

[Trillmatic90]

Obviously no superstars, but a bunch of solid players.

No one on that roster is worthy of being called a solid player except Odom

Look at the stats :x

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2006.html

 

[rook]

Written by the same "columnist" 10 months later...

Legends of the NBA: 25 Best Players of the 2000s

BY PETER EMERICK (FEATURED COLUMNIST) ON OCTOBER 1, 2012

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1350566-legends-of-the-nba-25-best-players-of-the-2000s/page/27

1. Kobe Bryant, SG, L.A. Lakers

2000s Stats: 28.2 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 45.7 FG%

Years Played in 2000s: 2000-2009 (10 Seasons)

Notable Achievements in 2000s: Four-time NBA Champion, 2009 NBA Finals MVP, 2008 NBA MVP, 10-time NBA All-Star, Three-time NBA All-Star Game MVP, Two-time NBA Scoring Champion, Seven-time All-NBA First Team, Two-time All-NBA Second Team, 2005 All-NBA Third Team, Six-time NBA All-Defensive First Team, Two-time NBA All-Defensive Second Team

Much like the 1990s were absolutely dominated by Michael Jordan, the 2000s were dominated in the same way by Kobe Bryant.

Kobe benefited from playing alongside one of the best centers to ever play the game, but he proved that he could lead a team by himself to the NBA's promised land when he led the L.A. Lakers to the 2009 NBA title.

Kobe's success wasn't earned overnight and it wasn't a natural gift. It was a product of hard work and studying the game. When it came to being a cerebral player, there was no better player in the game than Kobe. He outsmarted his defenders and he constantly broke down defenses by understanding where their weaknesses were.

His confidence also put him on a whole different level than most other players during the 2000s. He was never afraid to take big shots, and he never backed down from any obstacle that stood in his way of obtaining greatness.

Kobe was without a doubt the best player of the 2000s, and he could very well be the greatest player in the history of the game.

LMAO Wow

 

[pepperjackchees]

Obviously no superstars, but a bunch of solid players.

No one on that roster is worthy of being called a solid player except Odom

Look at the stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2006.html

Smush would like a word. 

But in all seriousness, reminds me of Philly in 01

 

[pepperjackchees]

Written by the same "columnist" 10 months later...

Legends of the NBA: 25 Best Players of the 2000s

BY PETER EMERICK (FEATURED COLUMNIST) ON OCTOBER 1, 2012

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1350566-legends-of-the-nba-25-best-players-of-the-2000s/page/27

1. Kobe Bryant, SG, L.A. Lakers

2000s Stats: 28.2 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 45.7 FG%

Years Played in 2000s: 2000-2009 (10 Seasons)

Notable Achievements in 2000s: Four-time NBA Champion, 2009 NBA Finals MVP, 2008 NBA MVP, 10-time NBA All-Star, Three-time NBA All-Star Game MVP, Two-time NBA Scoring Champion, Seven-time All-NBA First Team, Two-time All-NBA Second Team, 2005 All-NBA Third Team, Six-time NBA All-Defensive First Team, Two-time NBA All-Defensive Second Team

Much like the 1990s were absolutely dominated by Michael Jordan, the 2000s were dominated in the same way by Kobe Bryant.

Kobe benefited from playing alongside one of the best centers to ever play the game, but he proved that he could lead a team by himself to the NBA's promised land when he led the L.A. Lakers to the 2009 NBA title.

Kobe's success wasn't earned overnight and it wasn't a natural gift. It was a product of hard work and studying the game. When it came to being a cerebral player, there was no better player in the game than Kobe. He outsmarted his defenders and he constantly broke down defenses by understanding where their weaknesses were.

His confidence also put him on a whole different level than most other players during the 2000s. He was never afraid to take big shots, and he never backed down from any obstacle that stood in his way of obtaining greatness.

Kobe was without a doubt the best player of the 2000s, and he could very well be the greatest player in the history of the game.

LMAO Wow

I know someone from high school who almost didn't qualify to walk at graduation, and he is now writing for Bleacher Report. Site is trash.

 

[antidope]

Every 3 weeks with this thread

Duncan, Chamberlain, Russell, Abdul-Jabaar, Bird, Magic & Jordan. (Not named in a specific order)

Outside of those names, making a case for somebody who's had a career better than Kobe is tough.

Thank You.

^^^^ how can I say it any better please

david robinson scored 71 points before as well. 

Really 71 ??? 81 is more wtf

This had me dying.

And Jordan couldn't win it without a Hall of Fame Scottie Pippen and Hall of Fame coach.

This argument that well look at Kobe's team is TIRED!

Lebron couldn't win it without 1, potentially 2 hall of Famers

Duncan couldn't win one without another hall of famer.. Or a Hall of Fame Coach

Magic couldn't win one without Kareem.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

It's like people don't watch the diarrhea that comes out of their mouth.

No one has a legitimate ring in the history of the NBA

Wait are you talking about a over the hill David Robinson? You know guy waited till a young duncan to lead the team to finally win a ring.

and Manu and Parker are not HOFers. will not NBA HOFers.

Manu was a 56 pick in 99 he was a nobody till Duncan made him better. Parker a 28 pick again Duncan made him better. Parker only won his finals MVP cause of boobie.

Tony will be a Hall of Famer.

David was still averaging 15 & 10.

Not his not. Parker has never even been a top 5 PG in the league at any time in his career.

and david was not in his prime when he played with DUNCAN. david was a shell of himself in 99 and 03

No man no..... Both TP and Manu are going to be hall of famers. The backbone of this has an always will be Timmy and one can make the arguement that he is the reason that their games are so great, but they are in fact HoF players.

Nope just calling it how it is. Parker himself has said all SPURS success goes to timmy D. including parkers.

IMO Manu > Parker. But both are nothing without TD.

Still duncan made kobe cry. kobe needed to save that for the locker room. Tim was like

prime tmac > kobe

Jesus

 

[CP1708]

Antidope, please let the record show that your brother in this very thread has downplayed Manu, Parker, David AND even Pop to make Duncan look good.....in a Kobe thread. Some spur fan. That's a real fan right there. Exposed for the troll that he is.

 

[salahuddinxciii]

This is cute

 

[Humbled]

extremely overrated.

 

[finallyfamous]

extremely overrated.

QFT.

Dude sucks.

 

[nationaltruckerdave]

Great article

 

[knightngale]

Obviously no superstars, but a bunch of solid players.

you can not be serious

go watch soccer or something

 

[htg designs]

Dude is 34 and is still puttin in work. Dude has been double teamed 90% f his career. He has every move excet a sky hook, which Ie seen him actually hit in a couple games. Not over or under. Rated just fine.

 

[do be doo]

 

[essential1]

Forget that MJ saying the players win championships doesn't really cater to your argument.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

extremely overrated.

QFT.

Dude sucks.

 

[jbone2308]

Folks talk about scoring but forget other crazy things he's done.

12, 3's in a game (NBA record)
Tied for mot consecutive with 9
Has dished out 10+ assst in a quarter on more than one occassion
Had a triple double before halftime
Triple double in 3 quarters
More than 10+ boards in a quarter
Consecutive games with triple doubles
Defensively let's not forget when he would shut guys down

(I put these because 95% no 98% would miss games)
Played on a bum shoulder, put 38 on Tmac
Played with broken fingers on shooting hand
Played with a fractured wrist
Played left handed

This is about anything on court that he's done few have with regularity.

 

[pepperjackchees]

Obviously no superstars, but a bunch of solid players.

you can not be serious

go watch soccer or something

I dont see whats wrong with what I said. Mihm and Parker were not that bad. And Odom was good back then.

 

[gllahone84]

First iverson Is better than dwade...

Now Kobe is overrated...lol

 

[tennhouse2]

The fact that u could only name three solid players and two of them where smush parker and chris Mihm says a lot :x

 

[5am6oody72]

I dont see whats wrong with what I said. Mihm and Parker were not that bad. And Odom was good back then.

None of those guys besides Odom were ever "solid" with any other NBA teams and were out of the league or getting no PT pretty soon after leaving the Lakers. The fact you keep bringing up that he doesn't make his teammates better or improve their play or w/e the hell you want to call it, when stats point to the exact opposite of that being true, tells me all I need to know. That's all I'm going to add to this garbage pail of a thread.

 

[pepperjackchees]

You guys saying Kobe had a bad team in 05-06 should also also give Paul Pierce credit because his teams were subpar from 03-07.