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He can be somewhat at times because of the way media portrays him at times but at the end of the day he's top 5 best to ever play the game.
IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by goldenchild9,
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END THIS RIGHT NOW.... The most hated player is wht he is
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completely agree
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No shoeking I must of missed your point when you change it conveniently after I blew a big hole into your argument.
Your point is nonsense
Your point is nonsense
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Kobe demand trade tarnish his legacy? Really? 
Why would Kobe want to play with a group of players like Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Odom, Vujacic, Chris Mihm, Turiaf, Luke Walton?
No smart player would want to waste their prime years playing with a bunch of scrubs and not going anywhere
I don't care how good you are. Nobody was going to win anything with those scrubs players in 2005-1007 while playing on the West conference
Seriously. If your goal is to win a championship. You're going to play with Kwame Brown, Luke Walton and Smush Parker as your starter? Ask yourself that question
Just like a job or career. If you can't get anywhere with your current job. Are you going to do something different? Or are you going to stuck doing the same thing and not getting anywhere?
Why would Kobe want to play with a group of players like Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Odom, Vujacic, Chris Mihm, Turiaf, Luke Walton?
No smart player would want to waste their prime years playing with a bunch of scrubs and not going anywhere
I don't care how good you are. Nobody was going to win anything with those scrubs players in 2005-1007 while playing on the West conference
Seriously. If your goal is to win a championship. You're going to play with Kwame Brown, Luke Walton and Smush Parker as your starter? Ask yourself that question
Just like a job or career. If you can't get anywhere with your current job. Are you going to do something different? Or are you going to stuck doing the same thing and not getting anywhere?
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No he's not.
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Agreed, but that's my point. Other players have had their names dragged through the mud for this same exact thing. No superstar wants to waste their prime playing with trash, but a lot of them have had to. And they received all the criticism in the world for it.
Kobe didn't because he had a 3-peat with Shaq preceding it.
Fortunate
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NO! blake griffin is probably the most overrated player in the league
shoeking2101
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How? I specifically said in my post that to my knowledge I didn't know they did that. What's so hard to understand? I never claimed that I 100% knew it all.
If you read what I said above and think my argument is nonsense then I don't know what to say.
" I think you missed my point. My point was that Kobe asked to be traded and couldn't win when he was was "by himself." To me, this is a stain on his legacy but most seem to completely overlook it. The fact that he on two different occasions during his career had to bring in the most skilled and dominant big men in the league in order to win accounts for something in my book. His career is regarded as being so much better than the paul pierce's, Allen Iverson's, and T-Mac's of the world and chances are, if he didn't have those circumstances in his career he would be more than likely just like them.
Completely agree with you homie, 99% percent. (Only part I disagree with is that Kobe is a VASTLY superior talent than Paul Pierce and that there's no debate to that)
But You are 100% right on everything else. Luck has played a huge part in his legacy, it plays a huge part in almost everybody's legacy. Circumstance dictates everything. Kobe is a superstar talent, but so is all the other aforementioned players in this thread. The difference? Obviously the teams and the players that he was fortunate enough to play with. He could have easily became a 15 to 17 ppg player on championship teams who never reached his maximum potential. The greatness in him is that he far superseded that.
In my opinion Kobe is not 5 championships, 2 finals mvps, etc. better than those players. He may be better than those guys, but not by a large margin at all. His circumstance and fortune is what separated him. The question now is that does his fortune make him overrated? Because Without a doubt his talent isn't. "
What part of that is nonsense?
shoeking2101
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Kobe demand trade tarnish his legacy? Really?
Why would Kobe want to play with a group of players like Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Odom, Vujacic, Chris Mihm, Turiaf, Luke Walton?
No smart player would want to waste their prime years playing with a bunch of scrubs and not going anywhere
I don't care how good you are. Nobody was going to win anything with those scrubs players in 2005-1007 while playing on the West conference
Seriously. If your goal is to win a championship. You're going to play with Kwame Brown, Luke Walton and Smush Parker as your starter? Ask yourself that question
Just like a job or career. If you can't get anywhere with your current job. Are you going to do something different? Or are you going to stuck doing the same thing and not getting anywhere?
All of what you said is true. The point is that other players who are equally or possibly more talented than Kobe did the same thing and didn't have the fortune of having their wishes granted.
They are looked at as nothing more than selfish, volume scorers who didn't win while Kobe isn't looked at in nearly the same light. At least that's how I see it.
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First we are saying Kobe isn't crucified for demanding a trade. What do we call this nonsense every time we discuss Kobe's legacy. All we hear is "trade this" "trade that" hell half of you don't remember VC, TMac publicly asking for a trade, or Paul on the verge of one but Ainge pulls the rabbit out of his hat.
If we are going to say Kobe's accomplishments should be discounted for playing with dominant bigs or superb teams. I want you to come out now and tell me that MJ was overrated. Shaq was overrated. Bird was overrated. Wilt was overrated. As was Jerry West.. As was Bill Russell.. As was Tim Duncan. As was Lebron. The list goes on.
And worst of all Magic is SUPREMELY OVERRATED if we talk about "look at who his teammates are."
That is why what you said is nonsense.
He didn't demand to play with Shaq. Shaq signed to the Lakers around the same time Kobe was traded to the Lakers. And I want you to look at the trajectory of Kobe's career, then look at when Shaq won. And you see how those correlate don't you?
Let's talk about who he's played with, and demanding a trade from a franchise he thought wasn't doing anything (Same thing 90% of superstars have done) From Wilt to Kareem to Shaq to VC to TMac to Pierce to Kobe etc. etc.
It's not a blemish on his career because if you remember that time (I do vividly). Kobe publicly rescinded his trade request far before Pau was traded to LA.
But let's say he "doesn't get crucified for it" whilst you swing the sword.
If we are going to say Kobe's accomplishments should be discounted for playing with dominant bigs or superb teams. I want you to come out now and tell me that MJ was overrated. Shaq was overrated. Bird was overrated. Wilt was overrated. As was Jerry West.. As was Bill Russell.. As was Tim Duncan. As was Lebron. The list goes on.
And worst of all Magic is SUPREMELY OVERRATED if we talk about "look at who his teammates are."
That is why what you said is nonsense.
He didn't demand to play with Shaq. Shaq signed to the Lakers around the same time Kobe was traded to the Lakers. And I want you to look at the trajectory of Kobe's career, then look at when Shaq won. And you see how those correlate don't you?
Let's talk about who he's played with, and demanding a trade from a franchise he thought wasn't doing anything (Same thing 90% of superstars have done) From Wilt to Kareem to Shaq to VC to TMac to Pierce to Kobe etc. etc.
It's not a blemish on his career because if you remember that time (I do vividly). Kobe publicly rescinded his trade request far before Pau was traded to LA.
But let's say he "doesn't get crucified for it" whilst you swing the sword.
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THIS is the point all these kobe fans seem to always look over and when you bring it up, they think you're just hating. I said it before. Kobe has been THE most fortunate superstar ever. Reason being is there's been 3 different eras where he's had a "Big 4" so to speak. Started off the year he had Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel and Shaq make the all star team. Moved onto Shaq, Kobe, GP and Malone. Then now he's playing with Dwight, Pau and Nash.
Normally, maybe, if lucky, a player gets a "Big 3-4" ONCE in their career. This dude Kobe has had it happen THREE times!! Is kobe a great player? Yes, but please do not look over the fact that when compared to his peers, he's definitely been WAAAAAY more fortunate.
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Most fortunate... I mean barring getting HIV and his career ending.... Magic was far more fortunate.
So is Magic overrated? Just look at Magic's teams compared to Kobe. And tell me Magic isn't overrated.
Or maybe we can talk about MJ.. Who was fortunate enough that a draft pick trade turned into a Hall of Famer... Or Phil Jackson saved him from being the guy who couldn't win it. Or that the Spurs traded Will Perdue for Dennis Rodman..
This fortunate line goes on and on.
So it may not be hating on anyone but Doo's part who is most definitely hating . But it's extreme looking the other way to make your point valid
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So MJ and Magic were more fortunate than someone having a BIG 4 in THREE....yes, THREE different eras?!!?!? Wow, you kobe fans i swear. Next thing you know, your gonna tell me Kobe was less fortunate than Tmac or AI because he had "two whole years" where he had to play with sub par talent. Stop it.
And the MJ part is HILARIOUS! As if that same Phil Jackson didn't come to save YOUR guy from not being able to win. Just stop for real.
Let me know when another superstar has been able to play with the TWO best centers in the league in TWO different eras!!!!
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So MJ and Magic were more fortunate than someone having a BIG 4 in THREE....yes, THREE different eras?!!?!? Wow, you kobe fans i swear. Next thing you know, your gonna tell me Kobe was less fortunate than Tmac or AI because he had "two whole years" where he had to play with sub par talent. Stop it.
And the MJ part is HILARIOUS! As if that same Phil Jackson didn't come to save YOUR guy from not being able to win. Just stop for real.
Let me know when another superstar has been able to play with the TWO best centers in the league in TWO different eras!!!!
Let's see
Magic had Kareem (HOF) , Jamaal Wilkes (HOF) , James Worthy (HOF) , Bob McAdoo (HOF) , Kurt Rambis, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, Mychal Thompson, AC Green, Norm Nixon... And Hall of Fame Coach Pat Riley.
That big game where Magic played Center and scored 42. Wilkes scored 37.
Magic's teams were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Kobe's.
Do we have to get into the history of the Showtime Lakers..
Magic was the NO Jazz pick that the Lakers got when Gail Goodrich signed with NO. So the Lakers got the 1st pick after making the WCF the year prior.
A guy averaging 18 (Wilks) & 23 (KAJ) & 17 (Nixon) already on that team.
Then drafting Worthy 1st pick in the 1982 draft a few weeks after they lost the finals
As for Jordan....No one is saying Phil Jackson didn't have a hand for MJ or Kobe.
But Jordan was "The guy who couldn't win it all." That's who he was going into the 1991 finals..
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I think you're completely missing the point. Yes, Magic has had a great team in ONE era of his career.
Kobe has been fortunate enough to have had 3 DIFFERENT great teams in 3 different times in his career. Rookie, Prime and now.
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The teams that Magic were on lasted a decade.. It didn't need to go era. You're just being silly now
You don't have a point at all...
But yeah let's say Kobe isn't that good because he had three separate good teams.
Kobe is easily top 10 Greatest of All Time. And can be argued to be number 5. There's a debate on where he falls between those 5-10. But no debate about him being a Top 10 of All Time.
Your argument is laughable. It will continue to be laughable, it will always be laughable.
You complain about teams. Everyone in that top 10 list has played with people who are Hall of Famers.
You can complain about asking for trades.. Some of the top 10 had successfully forced their teams to trade them to larger markets.
Complain he's a ball hog. He's led the Lakers in assists for more years than he hasn't. (Since the 1999-00 season all but 2 years has he not led the Lakers in assists) Also every year he's toward the tops in assists among SGs.
Complain he's a bad teammate. You don't see a long list of people saying Jordan was even remotely a good teammate.
So go on about your merry way. And say well he played with Great Players.. Then make it I mean different eras.
Remember this... Players go to teams where they have the best chance to win. Especially veterans. Maybe that gives you your answer as to why the Lakers constantly get the guys they want through FA & Trades since the 60s.
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Truth
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jumpmanfromdabay
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Oregon, Penn State and The Bengals?
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Oregon, Penn State and The Bengals?
So obscure.
It'd be like asking "Who is your favorite member of Kiss? and you respond Peter Criss.
Or who is the best member of the Beatles and you respond George Harrison.
jumpmanfromdabay
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Oregon, Penn State and The Bengals?
So obscure.
It'd be like asking "Who is your favorite member of Kiss? and you respond Peter Criss.
Or who is the best member of the Beatles and you respond George Harrison.
Why do you respond to everyone? It doesn't concern you
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Oregon, Penn State and The Bengals?
So obscure.
It'd be like asking "Who is your favorite member of Kiss? and you respond Peter Criss.
Or who is the best member of the Beatles and you respond George Harrison.
Why do you respond to everyone? It doesn't concern you
Was making a joke about the author's teams choice.
jumpmanfromdabay
Banned
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Oregon, Penn State and The Bengals?
So obscure.
It'd be like asking "Who is your favorite member of Kiss? and you respond Peter Criss.
Or who is the best member of the Beatles and you respond George Harrison.
Why do you respond to everyone? It doesn't concern you
Was making a joke about the author's teams choice.
I apologize, I've had a long day
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Oregon, Penn State and The Bengals?
So obscure.
It'd be like asking "Who is your favorite member of Kiss? and you respond Peter Criss.
Or who is the best member of the Beatles and you respond George Harrison.
Why do you respond to everyone? It doesn't concern you
Was making a joke about the author's teams choice.
I apologize, I've had a long day
Believe me I know the feeling worked retail all day dealing with Old People..
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jumpmanfromdabay
Banned
- 25,730
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Oregon, Penn State and The Bengals?
So obscure.
It'd be like asking "Who is your favorite member of Kiss? and you respond Peter Criss.
Or who is the best member of the Beatles and you respond George Harrison.
Why do you respond to everyone? It doesn't concern you
Was making a joke about the author's teams choice.
I apologize, I've had a long day
Believe me I know the feeling worked retail all day dealing with Old People..
Sorry to hear that
