Is Kobe Bryant Still the Best Shooting Guard in the NBA?

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by nflowshoe

No doubt kobe can score the ball, but have yall noticed he forces a lot of his shots when he should be setting up other teamates?  When kobe was hurt this season Bynum and Gasol were looking like first NBA team players, he comes back and now they suck.............I would hate to play with Kobe

if i recall correctly, when kobe was sick, he played with heart and got 31 points, gasol and bynum didnt show. when kobe went to the bench in game 6, the big men were no where to be found... besides, pau was great in the finals against the magic, but he just doesnt fit into the offense.. which makes mike brown a %%#+.. because you have an all star and fiba mvp and all you do is let him set screens at the top and let him take fade aways from there?

 

[ag 47]

Monta is a Top 7 SG. How many chuckers shoot above 50% for an entire year?

 

[miamib30514]

26 easy efficient first half points

 

[mjsaver]

Its basically a coinflip between him and Wade, and at this point in Kobes career theres no shame in that.

Kobe my dog but if somebody puts Wade ahead of him the margin is so small theres really no need to argue.

 

[xbiker47]

Kobe > Wade

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

What more is Joe Johnson?

I'm not saying JJ isn't better. He is. My point is that there isn't nothing about ATL JJ that makes me excited at all. Kobe, Wade, Manu, and Harden. After that, a whole bunch of meh.

Wes, Joe, Monta, Gordon, JET, OJ, whoever, just a whole bunch of meh. No one else is on their level.


Comparing Monta and Joe, at least Joe has some size and puts in defensive effort at times. Monta has gotten better over the years but he is still a 6'3 shooting guard at best. He is usually overmatched. Joe can guard the 2/3.
Oh and I said Joe is 4th place in my opinion. Per minute I like Harden more than Joe but as someone said, Harden has to prove he can do this consistently as a starter before I outrank Joe Johnson in favor of him. 

Kobe

Wade

Manu

Joe

Harden

Monta

The rest of those dudes.

Spaces = tier.

Originally Posted by AG 47

Monta is a Top 7 SG. How many chuckers shoot above 50% for an entire year?

So because she shoots 50% negates him from being labeled a chucker? I disagree with that.  And who said he wasn't a Top 7 SG? We were talking about the BEST so my question was why is Monta's name even being discussed in the first place.

Kobe vs. Wade should have been the title of the thread.

 

[japanair21]

Fair enough. Joe is definitely a better defender, but he's nothing more than an average two-guard in my eyes on defense.

The only thing he has working for him that's a major factor is his size. That's one thing that's lacking from a lot of these dudes trying to be a two-guard.


And if we're going to consider Iverson a two-guard, why not Russ?

I personally have Harden ahead of Joe just because I'm a huge fan of dude, and not so much of Joe.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

The difference is that Westbrooks actually logs minutes at the PG position. Iverson logged the vast majority of his minutes at the SG position. So based on that fact alone Westbrook is a PG and Iverson is a SG.

Now if we are speaking of playstyle, Westbrook, Iverson, Monta, Rose, they all are basically 2 guards in my eyes.

Truth used to give me hell for calling Rose a Combo guard because he says Rose doesn't play minutes at the SG position. But I base my decision more on play style than mins logged at which position. But I understand his stance. Just depends on how you want to look at it.

 

[kenji714]

Has been the best shooting guard for the past 13 years now and still going strong

Iverson gone, Tmac gone, VC gone, Ray Allen gone. Kobe is the only one left who still riding strong

 

[thegoldenchild]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

The difference is that Westbrooks actually logs minutes at the PG position. Iverson logged the vast majority of his minutes at the SG position. So based on that fact alone Westbrook is a PG and Iverson is a SG.

Now if we are speaking of playstyle, Westbrook, Iverson, Monta, Rose, they all are basically 2 guards in my eyes.

Truth used to give me hell for calling Rose a Combo guard because he says Rose doesn't play minutes at the SG position. But I base my decision more on play style than mins logged at which position. But I understand his stance. Just depends on how you want to look at it.

exactly.. i think other than kobe and wade, westbrook should be considered a 2 guard.. since harden takes the point when he's on the floor

 

[scientific method]

What difference does Harden doing it "as a starter" matter? He still plays 31 minutes, doesn't start games, but he finishes, and does so against the other team's 1st unit; same as Manu by the way who comes off the bench in favor of Danny Green. He was a few % points in each shot from 50/40/90 already at this point in his young career, 1.66 points per shot, the not starting thing is just a matter of giving the 2nd unit someone who can score and is a tactic employed by a few other teams as well.


I used to hate on Monta for being a chuck, but he passes the ball better this last season and his fg% is up. He's still a ho defensively, but props to him from switching from those terrible And 1's to J's

Where is Nick Young in this thread though?

Paul Pierce, or are we calling him a 3?

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

The difference is that Westbrooks actually logs minutes at the PG position. Iverson logged the vast majority of his minutes at the SG position. So based on that fact alone Westbrook is a PG and Iverson is a SG.

Now if we are speaking of playstyle, Westbrook, Iverson, Monta, Rose, they all are basically 2 guards in my eyes.

Truth used to give me hell for calling Rose a Combo guard because he says Rose doesn't play minutes at the SG position. But I base my decision more on play style than mins logged at which position. But I understand his stance. Just depends on how you want to look at it.

Yeah okay. That makes sense. I agree, all those dudes are two-guards who just log minutes at the PG sometimes. They're just incredibly undersized. Westbrook can get away with it because he's so efficient on offense, though he can get exposed and get very lazy on defense.

I see what you're saying SciMet, Harden is there to me. G4 of Round 1 proved it to me. Last year he wasn't like this.

Since when was Paul Pierce a three though?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

What difference does Harden doing it "as a starter" matter? He still plays 31 minutes, doesn't start games, but he finishes, and does so against the other team's 1st unit; same as Manu by the way who comes off the bench in favor of Danny Green. He was a few % points in each shot from 50/40/90 already at this point in his young career, 1.66 points per shot, the not starting thing is just a matter of giving the 2nd unit someone who can score and is a tactic employed by a few other teams as well.


I used to hate on Monta for being a chuck, but he passes the ball better this last season and his fg% is up. He's still a ho defensively, but props to him from switching from those terrible And 1's to J's

Where is Nick Young in this thread though?

Paul Pierce, or are we calling him a 3?

I understand where you are coming from but he is still a player that comes off of the bench and his first batch of minutes are usually against subs. I don't think it is fair to judge him on the same level as full time starters. Yes he plays starter's minutes and finishes games like you said so that is why I am not viewing it that unfair. But I think it is safe to hold judgement until he is a starting player.
Yes Manu comes off of the bench but he has proven to be a great player playing in championship series' as well as being a starter during those moments.

In terms of skill-set, Harden is top notch.

 

[srvballer]

1. Kobe
2. Wade

3. Harden
4. Johnson
5. Manu??

SG position is lacking depth in this era

 

[DCAllAfrican]

JapanAir21 wrote:

---

Since when was Paul Pierce a three though? 


http://www.82games.com/0910/09BOS12.HTM#bypos 

[h3]Production by Position[/h3]Player Floor Time Stats by Position
[table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Position[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Min[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Net Pts[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Off[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Def[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Net48[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]W[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]L[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Win%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]PG[/size]​

[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]SG[/size]​

[/td][td][size=-1]  0%[/size][/td][td][size=-1]+5[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 104.0[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 72.8[/size][/td][td][size=-1]31.2[/size][/td][td][size=-1]3[/size][/td][td][size=-1][/size][/td][td]

[size=-1]100%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]SF[/size]​

[/td][td][size=-1]  58%[/size][/td][td][size=-1]+193[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 99.1[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 95.1[/size][/td][td][size=-1]4.0[/size][/td][td][size=-1]39[/size][/td][td][size=-1]29[/size][/td][td]

[size=-1]57%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]PF[/size]​

[/td][td][size=-1]  1%[/size][/td][td][size=-1]+49[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 143.0[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 108.6[/size][/td][td][size=-1]34.4[/size][/td][td][size=-1]23[/size][/td][td][size=-1]7[/size][/td][td]

[size=-1]76%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]C[/size]​

[/td][td][size=-1]  0%[/size][/td][td][size=-1]+3[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 261.8[/size][/td][td][size=-1] .0[/size][/td][td][size=-1]261.8[/size][/td][td][size=-1]1[/size][/td][td][size=-1][/size][/td][td]

[size=-1]100%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][/table]

 

[coolnclutch]

Yeah but it's not like he's got much competition. Shooting guard is the weakest position in the NBA right now in terms of quality. 

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

JapanAir21 wrote:

---

Since when was Paul Pierce a three though? 


http://www.82games.com/0910/09BOS12.HTM#bypos 

[h3]Production by Position[/h3]Player Floor Time Stats by Position
[table][tr][td]

[size=-1]Position[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Min[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Net Pts[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Off[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Def[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Net48[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]W[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]L[/size]​

[/td][td]

[size=-1]Win%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]PG[/size]​

[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][td]
[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]SG[/size]​

[/td][td][size=-1]  0%[/size][/td][td][size=-1]+5[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 104.0[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 72.8[/size][/td][td][size=-1]31.2[/size][/td][td][size=-1]3[/size][/td][td][size=-1][/size]
[/td][td]

[size=-1]100%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]SF[/size]​

[/td][td][size=-1]  58%[/size][/td][td][size=-1]+193[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 99.1[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 95.1[/size][/td][td][size=-1]4.0[/size][/td][td][size=-1]39[/size][/td][td][size=-1]29[/size][/td][td]

[size=-1]57%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]PF[/size]​

[/td][td][size=-1]  1%[/size][/td][td][size=-1]+49[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 143.0[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 108.6[/size][/td][td][size=-1]34.4[/size][/td][td][size=-1]23[/size][/td][td][size=-1]7[/size][/td][td]

[size=-1]76%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][tr][td]

[size=-1]C[/size]​

[/td][td][size=-1]  0%[/size][/td][td][size=-1]+3[/size][/td][td][size=-1] 261.8[/size][/td][td][size=-1] .0[/size][/td][td][size=-1]261.8[/size][/td][td][size=-1]1[/size][/td][td][size=-1][/size]
[/td][td]

[size=-1]100%[/size]​

[/td][/tr][/table]


My dyslexia kicking in, or maybe I just don't proofread well enough,

I meant since when was Paul Pierce a two. I have NO idea what those stats mean other than the Minutes stat..

 

[scientific method]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

The difference is that Westbrooks actually logs minutes at the PG position. Iverson logged the vast majority of his minutes at the SG position. So based on that fact alone Westbrook is a PG and Iverson is a SG.



Now if we are speaking of playstyle, Westbrook, Iverson, Monta, Rose, they all are basically 2 guards in my eyes.



Truth used to give me hell for calling Rose a Combo guard because he says Rose doesn't play minutes at the SG position. But I base my decision more on play style than mins logged at which position. But I understand his stance. Just depends on how you want to look at it.

Yeah okay. That makes sense. I agree, all those dudes are two-guards who just log minutes at the PG sometimes. They're just incredibly undersized. Westbrook can get away with it because he's so efficient on offense, though he can get exposed and get very lazy on defense.

I see what you're saying SciMet, Harden is there to me. G4 of Round 1 proved it to me. Last year he wasn't like this.

Since when was Paul Pierce a three though?

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

And Pierce is a 3 when he plays alongside Ray Allen or Avery Bradley, although I'm not a huge fan of position titles/roles to begin with but for box score purposes it's inarguable he is a 3 much of the time. .

 

[JAYxSF415]

-

 

[mben32]

Wade seen this thread before the game? 

 

[calibeebee]

Originally Posted by KenJi714

Has been the best shooting guard for the past 13 years now and still going strong

Iverson gone, Tmac gone, VC gone, Ray Allen gone. Kobe is the only one left who still riding strong

B-Roy

 

[mben32]

Originally Posted by calibeebee

Originally Posted by KenJi714

Has been the best shooting guard for the past 13 years now and still going strong

Iverson gone, Tmac gone, VC gone, Ray Allen gone. Kobe is the only one left who still riding strong

B-Roy

That's probably Kobe's most impressive feat, IMO. even more so than the rings. How he stood the test of time. so many other great/potentially great SGs have come & gone, & he's been the 1 constant at the position. 
VERY impressive. 

 

[maxelite]

Originally Posted by jcmojica24

Kobe is still the best SG in the game and it isn't even close right now

Not close? 
Cmonnnnnnnn son

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Yea me and my folks always talk about how many potential SG's have came and gone during Kobe's career.

Ray
AI
Finley (Really not Really)
Wade
Vince
TMAC

And the dude is still going.

 

[knightngale]

Originally Posted by MaxElite

Originally Posted by jcmojica24

Kobe is still the best SG in the game and it isn't even close right now

Not close? 
Cmonnnnnnnn son

Kobe can still drop 40 in the playoffs even though the rest of his team is trash. Wade is going 1 on 1 against Barbosa in the Pacers series

It is a shame that Kobe is still better than Wade considering dude is 34 and has 40 year old type mileage on those legs.