- May 5, 2009
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i was gonna say the same thing
Is Phil Jackson overrated?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by poeticjays,
- Start date
i was gonna say the same thing
- May 30, 2006
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Do I think he's overrated as a BASKETBALL coach? Yeah, maybe a little...
But that's not really what the NBA is about... It's about managing egos and knowing what buttons to push... And nobody does that better than PhilJackson has over the course of his career...
But that's not really what the NBA is about... It's about managing egos and knowing what buttons to push... And nobody does that better than PhilJackson has over the course of his career...
- Apr 24, 2006
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lately his team's lack of preparation and ability to hold leads is a reflection of him
losing 3-1 lead to suns
losing game 7 to suns in a total blowout
losing game 4 to boston after being up 24 points
losing game 6 to boston by 39 points
the lakers ALWAYS lose big leads over the past couple seasons and they never play with the passion/intensity that you see in other teams.
clearly, he is not preparing his team for big games and hasn't coached them to win after having a big lead. his questionable substitutions always giveopponents a chance to come back in a game.
I would rather have JVG at this time to coach this team, because our defense is mad suspect
losing 3-1 lead to suns
losing game 7 to suns in a total blowout
losing game 4 to boston after being up 24 points
losing game 6 to boston by 39 points
the lakers ALWAYS lose big leads over the past couple seasons and they never play with the passion/intensity that you see in other teams.
clearly, he is not preparing his team for big games and hasn't coached them to win after having a big lead. his questionable substitutions always giveopponents a chance to come back in a game.
I would rather have JVG at this time to coach this team, because our defense is mad suspect
- May 5, 2009
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yes phil is to blame of course but i say the players lack of intensity are also to blame
- Mar 3, 2006
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I don't know, I never really liked him as a coach myself. He definitely isn't up there in the suckage meter as Van Gundy (Stan) and GeorgeKarl are, and yeah he's made it to the Finals once, but Avery Johnson has a great record, but he's not a terribly good coach. I just think he can'tbuild a team himself, he can take one over sure, but BUILD one like coaches like Greg Pop and Jerry Sloan have proven? As good as the Sacramento Kings were inthe early 2000's, I always thought it was more of a team playing well together rather than being coached well, similar to the Nuggets now. I'm sorrybut George Karl is a subpar coach at best in my opinion, and maybe I was exaggerating in saying that Adelman was a terrible coach, but I have a feeling if JVGwas still running that team, there'd be a different attitude with that team. I REALLY liked the Rockets with JVG, they were a tough team, but with Yao andMcGrady always being question marks, it hurts the franchise. You bring in a guy like Artest this year who replaces that toughness that JVG brought to thisteam, and it worked for the most part, but I just don't think Adelman can handle all of those personalities. Maybe it's because I don't have faithin him as a coach, or maybe I'm just a fool.
I also was going to say, the number of GOOD coaches in the league is small on my list (active). Sloan, Pop, Phil, D'Antoni, Skiles (yes, I said ScottSkiles), Larry Brown, and MAYBE Rick Carlisle, that man has a good track record, but his demeanor just doesn't do it for me.
On the border of good/decent I only have Eddie Jordan (is he still coaching?), Woodson, Mo Cheeks, Byron Scott, and Lawrence Frank.
I can't really judge young new coaches like Spoelstra because they don't enough experience as a HC, but dudes like Mike Dunleavy Sr.? How does that manstill have a job?
- Jun 30, 2003
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def time to hang it up ... not overrated though
- Jun 30, 2003
- 9,264
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def time to hang it up ... not overrated though
- Feb 22, 2007
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Phil Jackson has had argubly the best all around player(Jordan),best center(Shaq),best pure scorer(Kobe)and best all around small forward(Pippen) of ALL TIME,
Rudy T has 2 championships. Rudy T had Hakeem Olajuwon(One of the 5 top 5 centers of all time) and Clyde in his last good years.
Phil Jackson has never had to deal with years without a least one dominant player. Rudy T had a bunch of years with declining Barkley,Francis and Mobley etc. Iliked to see what kind of records Phil would put up with those teams.
Switch roles and Rudy T might have 10 championships. His teams wouldnt get outworked and show no passion like Phil's have lately.
"Don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion!"
Rudy T has 2 championships. Rudy T had Hakeem Olajuwon(One of the 5 top 5 centers of all time) and Clyde in his last good years.
Phil Jackson has never had to deal with years without a least one dominant player. Rudy T had a bunch of years with declining Barkley,Francis and Mobley etc. Iliked to see what kind of records Phil would put up with those teams.
Switch roles and Rudy T might have 10 championships. His teams wouldnt get outworked and show no passion like Phil's have lately.
"Don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion!"
- Jan 13, 2005
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He's stubborn and doesnt make in game adjustments well. As much as he adjusted since his time in L.A., (modifying the triangle and letting youngerplayers play) he still tries to let the players figure out how to get out of jams (not calling timeouts) and he still has some wack subsitution patterns.
- Apr 9, 2001
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I was just about to post this.
Amen.
- Apr 9, 2004
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So the knock on Jackson that people are mentioning is that he isn't preparing his teams mentally and people are countering that with Rick Adelman? Yikes.
- Nov 6, 2008
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i dont understand how you can blame Phil for the Lakers getting outworked and not playing with passion...
that's like blaming Phil Jackson for the fact that Pau Gasol is softer than tissue paper
- May 5, 2009
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exactly!!!
- Apr 9, 2001
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Ya know at some point you think it's time to do something different. He adopted that Zen stuff with the Bulls after they done won 3. So pretty much he hadthe same group of core guys who all grew to elders in the league.
You can do that with them.
This is a young group that needs to grow up. Why you think he keeps Tex around? Probably is Tex isn't the man, nither is Rambis, B-Shaw, or Jim Clemons.
Phil is the man so the team reacts to him. There were times in the Kobe/Shaq era he got loud or got in guys faces, whatever. Now he just sits there. Iunderstand the no timeout thing but when you lose a big lead you need at TO!
You can do that with them.
This is a young group that needs to grow up. Why you think he keeps Tex around? Probably is Tex isn't the man, nither is Rambis, B-Shaw, or Jim Clemons.
Phil is the man so the team reacts to him. There were times in the Kobe/Shaq era he got loud or got in guys faces, whatever. Now he just sits there. Iunderstand the no timeout thing but when you lose a big lead you need at TO!
kobe85
Banned
- Feb 15, 2006
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- Feb 22, 2007
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If he's the Zen Master and a great coach push his buttons call him soft in media or play Mbenga
de phx jose
Banned
- Feb 1, 2009
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Would he have won any of those rings without Jordan,Pippen,Shaq, and Kobe?
- Nov 11, 2004
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see that USED to be true.
Pre-2002, there was no question that this was true, but if you look at his track record SINCE then, it's clear that something has changed.
Losing a 3-1 lead to the suns, getting blown out in game 7.
Getting blown out in 5 games against an underdog Detroit team that no one thought had a chance coming in.
Losing a 24 point lead in a critical game in finals, getting blown out in the clinching game.
Stuff like that, yes it is partly the teams fault for not competing, but doesn't some of the blame lie with the coach too? Isn't it his job to makesure his team is ready to go?
I know this is the NBA and not highschool, but even so, if I saw Gasol out there playing like a girl with no heart, I would bench him and put in someone likeMbenga for a few minutes, have him go hard, get a couple hustle rebounds, block a shot, heck even pick up a few fouls, just to send a message to the rest ofthe team that if they don't want to play hard, I'm NOT scared to bench them and go with someone that may be less talented, but at least is willing togive it their all.
I think people are so set on his past achievements that they fail to recognize that what he's been doing lately just hasn't been working.
- Aug 31, 2006
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so if he ends up winning the Championship this year he isn't overrated anymore, but if they fall short then he is?
and please, what Championship team hasn't had a future hall of famer or 2 or a STACKED team? and like someone said, how many STACKED teams haven't wona championship? Phil has 9 and been to the finals 11 times
okay, I might agree that he has lost a bit of his edge, he definitely frustrates the fans sometimes. but he isn't overrated, last I checked the Lakers arestill playing in the Wcf. I do have my critiques of his methods but who am I to be seriously questioning him. After he leaves though, I wouldn't mindgetting JVG. Phil just does not preach defense enough for my liking.
But overrated? no
btw, what about that Lakers team w/Brian Cook, Puke, Smush, Kwame that he took to the playoffs twice(3 of these @*@*!!$*$%@%+ were starters!!)? they were oneof the dispicable collection of players to ever make a playoff team
- Sep 4, 2007
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- May 5, 2009
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like kobe...phil has to win again to shut the critics up...redemption for both
- Jan 23, 2005
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Ummm...how many championships does he have?
- Jan 3, 2008
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Phil?? Not at all.
Now if you were taking about Kobe Bryant slam dunk giant then sure
Now if you were taking about Kobe Bryant slam dunk giant then sure
shoeking2101
Banned
- Sep 1, 2007
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In my opinion PJ is overrated and underrated at the same time.
He isn't top 5 for coaches today, or all time imo
But he is underrated in a sense because although he has those stars on his team(s) like Bryant Oneal Jordan etc. he also has had a plethora of bad players onhis teams as well. The offense that chicago ran and that the lakers are running now, is simply phenomonal imo. He puts players like Armstrong, Hodges, Fisher,Fox, vujacic, paxton, debuschler, in positions in which they can make the most out of their abilities and aren't asked to do to much. The offense that philruns allows players like walton to actually look good and on any other team, he wouldnt play at all and might even be out of the league. This is a veryunderrated part of his offensive attack and if you look at past teams that phil has had, look past the big names. Those teams were not very good at all.
Also, he's the primary reason why Jordan and Bryant are and were so successful in this offense. Like the role players listed above, he puts them in aposition where they can utilize the most of their talents. Most of the time, phil has kobe and had jordan playing the 3 position, catching the ball in placeswhere they could go right up and either shoot, or take no more than 2 dribbles and be in a very effective position to score. Phil is responsible for refiningboth Jordan and Bryant's offensive arsenals and making Jordan and Bryant more efficient scorer.
So, is phil overrated? In a way yes, because he did have the All time greats but, there is no discounting what he has done especially with almost all of hischampionship teams, which weren't that talented at all imo.
He isn't top 5 for coaches today, or all time imo
But he is underrated in a sense because although he has those stars on his team(s) like Bryant Oneal Jordan etc. he also has had a plethora of bad players onhis teams as well. The offense that chicago ran and that the lakers are running now, is simply phenomonal imo. He puts players like Armstrong, Hodges, Fisher,Fox, vujacic, paxton, debuschler, in positions in which they can make the most out of their abilities and aren't asked to do to much. The offense that philruns allows players like walton to actually look good and on any other team, he wouldnt play at all and might even be out of the league. This is a veryunderrated part of his offensive attack and if you look at past teams that phil has had, look past the big names. Those teams were not very good at all.
Also, he's the primary reason why Jordan and Bryant are and were so successful in this offense. Like the role players listed above, he puts them in aposition where they can utilize the most of their talents. Most of the time, phil has kobe and had jordan playing the 3 position, catching the ball in placeswhere they could go right up and either shoot, or take no more than 2 dribbles and be in a very effective position to score. Phil is responsible for refiningboth Jordan and Bryant's offensive arsenals and making Jordan and Bryant more efficient scorer.
So, is phil overrated? In a way yes, because he did have the All time greats but, there is no discounting what he has done especially with almost all of hischampionship teams, which weren't that talented at all imo.
- Feb 26, 2005
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Ask Michael Jordan if he thinks Phil is overrated.
