Is Virginia's own DONE???

Oh..I don't know about many people's background here. I can't make that call, it's not my place.
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No it doesn't matter that's he white, it just doesn't make him a brotha IMO, or at least my brotha.
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For the record Im as mick as a PG county resident can be.

It obviously is about coming up with a new word to accomodate you, seeing as that is the proper term, and you are the ONLY one arguing about it, not only in this thread, but anywhere. Thats not even a point of discussion, except in your weird, dragged out arguments.

"How do you know what "animal rights" animals want or don't want, YOU DON'T and neither do I"

Seriously, are you @#%$ ******ed? There is NO way someone can come up with something like this, and be a real person. Despite the fact that it was explained in this thread TWICE, animal rights are not a @#%$ bill of rights for animals. We are not making choices for them, animal rights are the simple basis that as a living being they are entitled to humane treatment and protection from exploitation and abuse. What the @#%$ can you not understand about that? And if you have seriously have a problem or disagree with respecting a living beings right to exist, youre demented.

"If your going to use a word or a term, make sure you use it CORRECTLY, which is what I proved you wrong on. "

Once again ARE YOU @#%$ ******ED? All you did was look the word up in the dictionary, find ONE of many definitions that suited your argument and copy and paste it. In turn, I copy and pasted another definition which shows that the word WAS in fact used CORRECTLY... this is not even debatable! You have completly blown my mind in this thread. What is going on in your head? Are you actually still arguing with me, or are you just trying to confuse me by saying stupid @#%$ at this point?

In my current situation I cannot properly care for a dog unfortunately. As much as I would love to, at the moment all Im able to do is donate, help with benefits and raising money, and promote, all of which I do with animal rights groups actively, as well as the fact that my lifestyle (veganism) is based on lessening the suffering of animals. But I suppose youll come up with some wacky argument about how I have no right to talk since Im not adopting a dog.

Rock- It gets easier the more used to it you get. Im not the type of vegan that denies that I like meat, or that it tastes good. @#%$ that, when I smell pizza, tuna, grilled fish, that @#%$ makes me hungry, I jsut feel that I am doing the right thing according to my own beliefs. I started vegetarian and slowly gave things up. By the time I had read enough and knew I was gonna go vegan, milk was making me physically sick. It was a psychological thing... I have a realllly weak stomach and after I foudn out about all the crap in it and stuff I just couldnt hold it down anymore, that made the transition either. It starts out tough, all you eat is substiute meats, and its expensive, unhealthy and gross. But once you find a couple good resteraunts, learn how to substitute stuff properly so you can eat at normal restaraunts, cook some REAL meals (not just heating up a veggie burger in the microwave) it gets really easy, and once your ecomofrtable you dont even think about it anymore. It also really opened me up to a lot of food I wouldnt have gone near before tempeh, seitan, tofu, all sorts of different vegetables and spices, hummus, falafel etc. And Ive found a ton of AMAZING places to eat around the country. (hint, check out Soul Veg in DC on Wednesday nights) Ive also found that American culture is one of the very few that relies so heavily on animal products in our diet. Its sooo easy to find vegan options at any kind of ethnic restaraunt, especially asian.

Clothing is a debatable issue, and sometimes the point of veganism is misconstrued. Many people think that the point of veganism is to reject any form of animal product in your life, basically a giant boycott. Well there are car parts made from animal parts, glue that comes from horse bones holding the magazines I read together, etc. Theres no way to avoid using animal products. The point of veganism is to greatly reduce animal suffering, and to be more conscious of it. I try my best to stay away from animal products, if I slip up, its not a big deal, im at least trying to do my part. Sometimes Ill eat a pasta I think its vegan, and then I find out it has whey in the sauce or something. I wish I would have known, but life goes on. Who knows if a glue used to hold the sole of a shoe on is all synthetic or made from horse bones? Im not THAT anal about it, I just try to do my best to do my part for what I think is right.


BEE THHERREE!!
 
And before anyone brings it up, I do not support PETA... although they are far from the "al Queda of Animal Rights" and arent nearly as bad as most people amke them out to be, I do find it a hypocritical organization that I wont support. Hearts in the right place, but I cant agree with some of the politics involved. Id rather support humane society, ALF, etc
BEE THHERREE!!
 
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starts out tough, all you eat is substiute meats, and its expensive
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"agree that PETA can be classified as extremists, but groups like them and individuals like them are the ones that are pushing the ban Mike Vick agenda and are taking this case way to far. Not to mention after this incident, PETA will grow in numbers, so they are a force to be aware of, a radical force at that"


PETA isn't going to see a huge increase from this. They can pressure, just like any other group, but the Vick thing was mostly because the mass outrage and all the public sentiments against him that company's wanted to avoid the scandal and his soiled name. Again, business is business. They could care less about people, $ is King...


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"And before anyone brings it up, I do not support PETA... although they are far from the "al Queda of Animal Rights" and arent nearly as bad as most people amke them out to be, I do find it a hypocritical organization that I wont support. Hearts in the right place, but I cant agree with some of the politics involved. Id rather support humane society, ALF, etc"


I definetly think PETA is radical and often times there radical and rather obstrusive practices and beliefs are counter-productive. Unfortunately, most people associate PETA with more progressive and productive animal righs groups...And the one thing about some of the Vegans and Veggies I have met is, some, not all, have this odd complex about them. I understand that YOU choose to not eat meat, etc but just don't tell me what I should and shouldn't eat. Its annoying. Its like Jehova Witness...And some of the thinking, I can understand but when some of my friends get into the whole "And meat and milk, its so harmful and it'll destroy your body" etc, they just come off sounding like they ripped a page out of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad's "How to Eat to Live". I have a very healthy family lineage, lots of people live to see 90+ and they were all meat eaters and milk drinkers, etc. I think moderation, diet, etc are more important, health-wise than simply not eating meats and milks and all that other shazz. But then again, I'm not a savant in terms of knowing all there is to know on the vegan diet, so maybe you'll enlighten me...
 
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It obviously is about coming up with a new word to accomodate you, seeing as that is the proper term, and you are the ONLY one arguing about it, not only in this thread, but anywhere
.

Really, the post below was taken from the Sports Forum..........

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A dogs "companionship" can only go so far.

Obviously the dog argument is irrelevant b/c of the laws, but saying they are on a similar level as your average citizen is wrong.


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animal rights are the simple basis that as a living being they are entitled to humane treatment and protection from exploitation and abuse.


Your basis is still asinine. Whether you want to admit it or not, your still treating animals as if they are actually human beings. The reason it doesn't add up is because at no given point in time will you hear or see an animal defend itself on whether they should be treated in a humane manner or not, your placing your own mindstate and feelings into the situation without fully comprehending or understanding the other side.

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Are you actually still arguing with me, or are you just trying to confuse me by saying stupid @#%$ at this point?


More so debating with you than anything else.

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In my current situation I cannot properly care for a dog unfortunately. As much as I would love to, at the moment all Im able to do is donate, help with benefits and raising money, and promote, all of which I do with animal rights groups actively, as well as the fact that my lifestyle (veganism) is based on lessening the suffering of animals.


Now I could knock you for not being a dog owner, or for not even helping those "unfortunate" dogs that will be put to sleep to night in Virginia while you do nothing to help, but I'm not going to do that. You say your doing all you can on your end and doing your part to help animals in general so more power to you.

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PETA isn't going to see a huge increase from this. They can pressure, just like any other group, but the Vick thing was mostly because the mass outrage and all the public sentiments against him that company's wanted to avoid the scandal and his soiled name.


I agree that this case was about the public outrage and sentiments regarding animals, but I strongly feel as though this case will be the launching pad for PETA and finally give them the "so called movement" that they've been looking for to fuel other causes and actions against public figures and companies.

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I definetly think PETA is radical and often times there radical and rather obstrusive practices and beliefs are counter-productive
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funny story ..


i was playinng madden online and i was using the falcons and i ran all over dude with vick, up by 20 in the last quarter.. And he quits.

So i send ole boy a message.. calling him a @#%$ etc etc.


dude.. sends me back a message...

" your a @#%$.. next time use a real qb.. not a felon "


i lol'd
love it
 
The post you took from the sports forum is completly irrelevant to what Im talking about. They are talking about putting dogs on the same level as humans, a point which you keep bringing up and arguing about, that no ones diagreeing with, yet you keep arguing with it. Originally you were trying to infer that a dog cannot be a companion, that seeking companionship from a dog is unnatrual, and that companion is an incorrect term to use for a relationship for a dog. You were wrong on all three accounts, and even proven wrong on the third by your own source, the dictionary. The problem now, is were arguing about what you were arguing about in the middle of an argument. You steered it off course in arguing about terminology and now its even further from the original point. Dogs=can be companion. Shut up, the end.

"Your basis is still asinine. Whether you want to admit it or not, your still treating animals as if they are actually human beings. The reason it doesn't add up is because at no given point in time will you hear or see an animal defend itself on whether they should be treated in a humane manner or not, your placing your own mindstate and feelings into the situation without fully comprehending or understanding the other side."

If that basis is asinine, then you have no respect for life that isnt a humans, and thats ridiculous. NOT BEING INHUMANE AND CRUEL to something is not neccessarily treating it as a human. Thats the basis of animal rights, NOT EXPLOITING AND DOING INHUMANE THINGS TO ANIMALS. Having a general respect for the fact that they exist. Youve never seen an animal defend itself on whether they should be treated in a human manner? Have you ever seen a dog bite someone because someone was @#%$ with it? Youve never had a dog in your neighborhood that barks anytime someone comes close to the fence, because its been abused? They arent humans, they cant talk, they react to treatment in the way animals can. They get depressed, withdrawn, violent, etc as reactions to inhumane treatment. What do you want, for them to form a picket line? WHAT DO WE WANT!? NOT TO BE SLAMMED AGAINST THE GROUND UNTIL WERE DEAD! WHEN DO WE WANT IT?? NOW!!!

Have you ever seen Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back? The scene where Ben Affleck is freaking out trying to explain to Jay that the Bluntman and Chronic movie is not about them persay, but the characters they are based on, and they just dont get it? He motioning with his hands and freaking out? FICTIONAL CHARACTERS...FIIIIICTIONAL CHARACTERS!!! This is where my level of frustration with how thickheaded you are

Marco- It depends on how radical were talking about. When you say they are the al quadea of animal rights, i think of extreme animal liberation tactics, labs being raided, executives houses being firebombed, etc. PETA just gets overzealous, and tries to get attention through shock value. Unfortunately, your average joe already thinks being a vegetarian is weird, so instead of seeing a picture of a skinned calf and saying "wow, when I buy a leather jacket, Im supporting that" they just get offended and the message PETA is trying to push doesnt get through. It slike PETA doesnt realize that their only support ARE animal rights advocates, yet they act like everyones behind them, and just shoot themselves in the foot and offend everyone, thus getting nowhere. I wouldnt say they are terrorists, because they arent actually hurting anyone or anything really, besides peoples feelings when they launch ridiculous campaigns. And dont get me wrong theyve done a lot of good and are probably the largest orginization in promoting awareness, but theres too much shady @#%$ and @#%$ backwards thinking for me to ever support them

As far as the preaching thing goes, take it how you will. Myself personally, Im doing what I believe in, if someone takes interest and wants to know what Im doing, I tell them. If they are into, cool, if not, oh well. But just keep in mind the people that are preaching are fighting for a cause. People catch feelings, and the message gets misconstrued... regardless of whether you think eating meat is right or wrong, the way the meat is produced IS wrong... and a big part of veganism focuses on the treatment. You dont need to torture an animal to kill it for the meat. So they may be trying to get this point across, and they pull a PETA, and just piss you off. It sucks, but some people just arent too bright...that and some vegetarians are just self righteous @#%$ who have to feel above everybody. Cause honestly thats pretty common too. But trust me its not just vegetarians with the complex. The hardest part of not eating meat is when some dumb @#%$ ****** finds out and IMMEDIATELY has to start an argument. YOU DONT EAT MEAT? BUT WERE THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN! THEYD EAT YOU IF THEY HAD THE CHANCE! YOU NEED PROTEIN TO BE HEALTHY! GOD PUT ANIMALS ON EARTH FOR US TO EAT! There are a million RIDICULOUS arguments I have to put up with on what seems like an almost daily basis. The complex has less to do with vegetarians/meat eaters and more to do with people just being stupid in general

As far as the health benefits go, look at it this way. Every food in the entire world has something wrong with it. And everybodys bodys are different. Theres no one way to eat, theres no healthiest way to eat. Some people are body builders and have to eat 100% clean, some people are football players and need to bulk up, some people are models and need to be skinny, some people dont give a @#%$. Veganism can be JUST as unhealthy as a @#%$ meat diet. Milk has tons of chemicals and hormones in it, when mixed with certain proteins in your stomach, you piss out a ton of vitamins, and youre more likely to get osteoperosis from drinking too much milk than too little. But when vegs bring this up they fail to mention that in soy milk, theres increased estrogen levels, bla bla bla, basically just as many things wrong, just different things. In a balanced vegan diet, you eat a ton more vegetables and such, but you get hardly any B-12 if you dont take supplements or eat a @#%$ ton of cereal/soy milk. Theres upsides and downsides to any diet. If you even remotely pay attention to what you eat, and make sure you get the right nutritional @#%$ in your body, youre fine, meat eater, veg, whatever. And why should someone else care about someone elses nutrition anyway? Its a stupid thing to preach about IMO

Rock- 3.50 for a damn box of 4 little tiny fake chicken patties? @#%$ OUTTA HERE!!! Some thigns you gotta just suck it up cause you need a treat once in awhile, like ice cream. But if you depend on fake meat as a staple to your diet, youll go broke straight up. Youre wife better be clipping coupons every sunday. Plus, maybe at first since your looking for a specific taste its okay, but after awhile you realize, fake meat tastes like @#%$. Id much rather just throw a slab of tempeh on the skillet, season it and put that on a sandwich then some disgusting boca burger.

Even if Im doing a small part, Im doing a part. Vegetarianism, especially in America, is rapidly growing, and its taken a definite toll on the meat industry. Also, Ive influenced others (tons of my friends have tried out vegetarianism and stuck with it from being around me, or gone from veg to vegan) so say 100 vegs all convert 3 friends, we tripled overnight. And thats just in regards t the big picture, of the big bad meat industry. Factor in protests, boycotts, etc and a lot has been done, improving farm conditions, setting new regulations for the treatment of animals, hunting laws, etc. Also, its not just making a change. I have a strong moral objection as well, so even if I didnt change anything, eating meat is still something I wouldnt want to take part in because of my personal feelings. The eco system theory is a common argument, and its been disproven, although I couldnt tell you much more than that. Im sure if you google it you could find a better answer than what I can give you...however more vegetarians would theoretically lead to drastically increased agriculture, less land area used for production and storage and a huge reduction in waste and pollution however so that may have something to do with it, in creating more space... as well as the fact that we breed animals just to slaughter and work for us, so they are about as much a part as the ecosystem as a shovel or plow. If we hunted all our meat, than overpopulation would be a definite concern but the meat we consume is all factory farm meat, breed em, grow em, slaughter em. If wild animals arent overpopulated now, then they wouldnt be if we stopped eating meat because only the animals we create would be the ones that disappeared. And animals like deer, which ar ealready overpopulated and running around in our backyards and @#%$... you have to think why are they overpopulated? Is it because we arent eating enough of them, or because humans are a bunch of d bags and we destroy a ton of forrests and fields for our houses and malls.

DC has a decent vegetarian restaraunt selection but we need some variety for sure. Theres way too many asian places. We need more soul stuff. I dont know anything about which religions are vegan or whatever, I just know Soul Veg is run by some religious group and its really good. We need more Ethiopian places, country style foods (mashed potatoes, lasagnas, etc) We have ONE good bakery, maybe TWO good vegan pizza shops... and theres no really higher end veg restaraunts with gourmet-@#%$ food.. the DC area is basically a string of cafes. And for god sakes we need a sandwich shop that knows how to cook seitan.

I feel like i should get college credit for all the essays Im writing
BEE THHERREE!!
 
No one is treating dogs like humans because if vick would of killed eight humans I'm pretty sure he would get a much bigger sentence than year-two years,so how is that putting them on the same level.Vick is getting off pretty nice for what he did,also VA can give him up to 40 years for the crimes so please don't act like it's all over.OO an i'm tired of people saying well when he gets out he won't be able to play football and he should get less of sentence because he can only play till mid 30's while other jobs you can do your whole life.Well poor career choice I think also he should have some of that 26 millon dollar signing bouns left,he had a $130millon reason's never to do anything illegal give me that I won't ever do anything wrong in any state. Also the NFL still has to make their ruling life time ban is unfair to me but year suspened I think is fair starting the season he gets out of jail.
~Chris
 
Kenny.. thanks for the insight on all that.. I am actually going to Copy and Paste most of it into a .doc for wifey...as some of the food names you mentioned are foriegn to me bruh.

If it aint Mac and Cheese or Mash Potatoes and Chicken.. I am pretty lost...lol

And yeah.. she's pretty frugal (thank God) so apparently she could be spending more on that crap than she actually is. And she puts Hot Sauce on EVERYTHING... and she is a BEAN eating mutha!! lol
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Originally you were trying to infer that a dog cannot be a companion, that seeking companionship from a dog is unnatrual, and that companion is an incorrect term to use for a relationship for a dog. You were wrong on all three accounts, and even proven wrong on the third by your own source, the dictionary. The problem now, is were arguing about what you were arguing about in the middle of an argument. You steered it off course in arguing about terminology and now its even further from the original point. Dogs=can be companion
there is a form or a level of communication that both parties understand. A dog doesn't understand you and you certainly don't understand a dog, no matter what you may think.

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Thats the basis of animal rights, NOT EXPLOITING AND DOING INHUMANE THINGS TO ANIMALS. Having a general respect for the fact that they exist.


Having a general respect for animals is fine and understood by me, its the enforcing of that respect and the degree level of making sure exploitation doesn't take place that makes people like you seem foolish to me.

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Have you ever seen Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back?


No I haven't but thanks for the breakdown.

For those that don't know already..........

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A source close to the Michael Vick case has told ESPN that the Falcons quarterback will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dog fights, as detailed in his indictment, when he enters a guilty plea Monday. Instead, the one count of conspiracy that Vick will plead to will admit guilt to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting
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Instead, the one count of conspiracy that Vick will plead to will admit guilt to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting


Now, the prosecution is going to move in hard for the kill. Why would they settle for less than what Vick's boys have already given up?
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".....And that's where we disagree yet again. To me, you can't seek or get companionship from a dog, or any non-human for that matter. It's unnatural and boderline bestiality IMO because with a companion, there is a form or a level of communication that both parties understand. A dog doesn't understand you and you certainly don't understand a dog, no matter what you may think."

If there is an established definition of what companionship is, then it doesnt matter what it means to you. If you think seeking companionship from a dog is weird, than thats one thing (and its still weird but whatever) but saying you cant get companionship is WRRROOONNNNG. Go write a letter to Websters and stop repeating yourself to me...you...are.....wrroonnnnnggggg
BEE THHERREE!!
 
Hey Ru,

The way I have been reading it and hearing it.. The Feds are agreeing to this. It's basically what Vicks lawyer worked out in order for Goddell not to have gambling against him in the ruling OR have PETA AS on him about Slaying animals..

if it comes out in official fed documents.. and the feds agree.. how can anyone else have problems with it, if he's goin to jail anyway?

I think the Feds are happy they are getting him locked up as an example. Everyone knows the story.. so why push it when they are essentially getting who they went after in the first place?

Like one writer wrote today. Vick was elusive yet again before getting convicted..
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Roger Cossack on plea
ESPN legal analyst Roger Cossack breaks down Michael Vick's plea deal and explains just what Vick is admitting to. Listen

In the agreement, Vick agreed to plead guilty to the first count of the indictment against him -- that he was part of a conspiracy to operate a dogfighting ring across state lines. The charge carries a potential sentence of up to 5 years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000 and up to three years' probation.


FASTEST DOCKET IN THE US wasn't having anything less

The sound you hear is Vick the athlete falling to da ground
 
So this is my question.. when you COP a plea.. does the judge have to agree? Or do they go into this hoping the judge goes with what the Prosecution agrees to??
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Ok.. so I was thinking about this.. and threw it in a random S&T thread, but wanted to get good feedback from it here.

whoever said Horses wanted to be raced against one another.. Just like they do with Greyhounds?

The point is, when those Animals break a leg during the course of a race most times (horses) have to be put down. Now my thought is.. how Humane is it.. or where are the Animals rights for the Animal when it comes to putting a Horse down, due to a broken leg when he never 'asked' to be a race horse in the first place?

Just wondering..Don't we make decisions for Animals everyday, in which we assume we know what's best? How would I know my German Shepard wants to mate with a Bull Dog? He might want another Shepard to get with...

Just a random thought I had today...
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"Just wondering..Don't we make decisions for Animals everyday, in which we assume we know what's best? How would I know my German Shepard wants to mate with a Bull Dog? He might want another Shepard to get with..."


Good grief...


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"The point is, when those Animals break a leg during the course of a race most times (horses) have to be put down. Now my thought is.. how Humane is it.. or where are the Animals rights for the Animal when it comes to putting a Horse down, due to a broken leg when he never 'asked' to be a race horse in the first place?"


I don't like the races either. But if your trying to to compare that to dog-fighting and the dogs being forced to fight...it still doesn't compare....at all...
 
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If you think seeking companionship from a dog is weird, than thats one thing (and its still weird but whatever) but saying you cant get companionship is WRRROOONNNNG.


Okay, so lets just say YOU get companionship from a dog for the sake of it. What are you giving the dog and what is the dog getting from you in that sense?? I ask that because companionship deals with emotions.

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The point is, when those Animals break a leg during the course of a race most times (horses) have to be put down. Now my thought is.. how Humane is it.. or where are the Animals rights for the Animal when it comes to putting a Horse down, due to a broken leg when he never 'asked' to be a race horse in the first place?
Rock
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Or do they go into this hoping the judge goes with what the Prosecution agrees to??
law of the land. Although they are supposed to be impartial their own view comes into play and the judge can either say,

Yes- the time will fit the crime.
No- the defendant deserves less time that what the indictment (prosecutors) are shooting for
No- the time doesnt fit the crime.. he will do the full run

again... VA baby... plenty of folks have bit the dust thanks to hard @#%$ Judges...
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"Okay, so lets just say YOU get companionship from a dog for the sake of it. What are you giving the dog and what is the dog getting from you in that sense?? I ask that because companionship deals with emotions."

Depends on the person. Affection, company, security, fun, could be any number of things.
BEE THHERREE!!
 
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