Jordan IV Military Blue - May 4, 2024

[trappedintime]

You can’t really call it gentrification when fashion as a whole is not a niche thing and more mainstream than ever today. And sneakers were never a niche market. Bigger now? Absolutely. But tens of millions of people wore Nikes and Jordans in the 80’s and 90’s. That’s why trying to make definitive statements about the culture around a product millions of people bought isn’t ever going to be accurate. I’d argue any culture based around a product is inherently full of trash anyway. Culture isn’t about consumerism or collecting.

The culture the original Jordan Brand embodied was excellence. Didn’t care about designer brands (that barely existed compared to today) on your body, didn’t care about what your race was, didn’t care about what music you listened to.

We can talk about how things have changed, but a look in the mirror is always helpful. Collecting sneakers wasn’t really a thing in the 80’s and 90’s. Only after the proliferation of Air Jordans in the late 90’s did such an idea even become a thing. Most sneaker enthusiasts wore shoes into the ground and moved onto the next one, or had a few pairs at a time.

The whole idea of collecting dozens or hundreds of pairs was never a part of that and it didn’t come from the mythical reseller. It’s what gave the reseller an in and reason to exist in the first place and was created by a good number of people here who have bought more than they could ever wear or “need” in 10 lifetimes.

 

[millzszn93]

Damn y’all going hard in this thread, imagine drop day

 

[KanyIZZY]

Folks want to push their agendas.. the stuff you see on here that people will go at lengths to defend, especially when culture and origins get brought up. Dudes be showing their true colors

 

[WASHED KING]

Hip hop being completely dismissed as an integral part of “sneaker culture” is definitely something.

Jordan’s impact is not that big. Bro been retired for 20+ years.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

When an old school sneaker head gets talked down for trying to share some of the history with the new generation, well, thats fairly depressing…

I’ve been saying it for a while now, but the sneaker culture isn’t a thing outside of a small subset of people…This is, and has been, the resell culture for a while now…Most of the people couldn’t care less about the history behind the streetwear and such…It’s just about the money behind the thing…

Some look at that as gatekeeping, others might call it gentrification …

To be fair, pretty much all people under 30 don’t or barely remember MJ playing basketball so they aren’t going to care much about the basketball history of the shoes. That connection just simply isn’t there.

Not only that, 40+ year old guys who are into sneakers aren’t exactly the typical “style influencers” you would see on IG, etc. Trends are driven by younger influencers on TikTok, etc. Look at the Panda Dunk, 550, and recent runner hype-these were not driven by old heads but still brought tons of interest by younger people who have only recently got into sneakers.

 

[staffsgtdignam]

Hip hop being completely dismissed as an integral part of “sneaker culture” is definitely something.

Jordan’s impact is not that big.

Couldn’t agree more.

Even in recent years with Travis in the late 2010s and Ye in the early 2010s really brought a ton of interest into the AJ 1s, for example. Nelly did this with AF 1s in the 2000s.

Obviously these models were popular before these rappers were wearing them but they absolutely helped take their popularity to another level.

Hell , most of this generation has little respect for legendary 90’s rappers let alone 80’s or earlier. Most of Gen Z actually thinks someone like Drake is better than Pac, Big, Nas, the Wu or Rakim. It’s pitiful.

This literally happens every generation with older people questioning younger people’s choice in music lol

It’s a generational divide, most people aren’t in the same page about music as their grandparents, for example.

 

[WASHED KING]

Couldn’t agree more.

Even in recent years with Travis in the late 2010s and Ye in the early 2010s really brought a ton of interest into the AJ 1s, for example. Nelly did this with AF 1s in the 2000s.

Obviously these models were popular before these rappers were wearing them but they absolutely helped take their popularity to another level.



This literally happens every generation with older people questioning younger people’s choice in music lol

It’s a generational divide, most people aren’t in the same page about music as their grandparents, for example.

You can go even further back to Run DMC in the 80’s….It started with the dope boys and the rappers. I want someone to please tell me there is zero crossover with hip hop culture and basketball. I’m honestly exhausted from work and don’t have the energy to fight this battle today, but this is crazy revisionist history.

I guess I was imagining them not letting black people in the club with Jordan’s on….Sneaker collecting by the masses were considered “ghetto” up until 2013-14 ish.

 

[trappedintime]

Hip hop being completely dismissed as an integral part of “sneaker culture” is definitely something.

Jordan’s impact is not that big.

that’s not how the Venn diagram looks to me though. There’s an overlap but hip-hop culture has always existed on its own and been bigger than kicks.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that most consumer products aren’t meant to have the same appeal across generations. Expecting even hip-hop heads today to identify with shoes in the same way misses this isn’t a gentrification issue, this is a rare case where a product makes it into a 4th or 5th decade with minimal changes and what marketing does to allow that to happen across very different types of consumers.

 

[206to813]

2396bullz but you didn’t answer his question

How old are you and where are you from?


I don’t even care about industrial military’s anymore, I cant get over the Jim jones thing

 

[green rhino123]

 

[vegetaray123]

Things don’t exist in a vacuum, until they do…That’s the point I was trying to make earlier…

Sneaker heads weren’t a thing until MJ? But it seems lost on people that Mike wanted to go to Adidas when he went pro…He was hip enough to the streets to know what was hot at that point in time…But I digress…

The true issue isn’t where people think such and such things happened that caused the “sneaker culture”, hell, at the least the people arguing one way or another have enough care for the history of sneakers to at least formulate an opinion…No, the real issue is that people are now buying up the culture based on the dollar signs that’s attached to it…I’m going to go into this sneaker consignment shop and buy these Panda Dunks for $300 because every piece of media I consume tells me that makes me a sneaker head ~ which in turn tells everyone else that I can wear shoes that are “worth” a bunch of cash…

It’s these people who get the most defensive when the history of sneakers topic is brought up, simply because they don’t give a **** about the shoes outside of the money that’s attached to it…Wearing Jordans was hood dress until it wasn’t, before that wearing shell toes without the laces was ghetto before it wasn’t, before that carrying around a toothbrush to brush out the suede on your Puma Clyde’s was ghetto before it wasn’t…What about kids in the 50’s wearing Chuck Taylor’s with leather jackets? They were viewed as outright criminals, until they weren’t…Today though none of that matters because ~these shoes are “worth” a bunch of money~ and , it doesn’t matter anyway right?

 

[WASHED KING]

that’s not how the Venn diagram looks to me though. There’s an overlap but hip-hop culture has always existed on its own and been bigger than kicks.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that most consumer products aren’t meant to have the same appeal across generations. Expecting even hip-hop heads today to identify with shoes in the same way misses this isn’t a gentrification issue, this is a rare case where a product makes it into a 4th or 5th decade with minimal changes and what marketing does to allow that to happen across very different types of consumers.

Owning the shoe doesn’t make them a fan though?These are the people who are buying the shoe for MJ?



I teach high schoolers I’ve asked them all questions about Jordan the most you will get out then is number of Championships if that.

 

[trappedintime]

Owning the shoe doesn’t make them a fan though?These are the people who are buying the shoe for MJ?



I teach high schoolers I’ve asked them all questions about Jordan the most you will get out then is number of Championships if that.

A fan of what? I mean that’s where all of the wires get crossed for me. Was Nelly an MJ aficionado when he was rocking 9’s and setting a trend?

Thats why hip hop culture and sneaker culture aren’t the same. Anyone wearing something just to be cool isn’t the authority on history and meaning behind it most of the time.

What’s the difference from white teenagers wearing it with zero knowledge vs kids who like rap music but know nothing about basketball let alone Mj’s career or the shoes in context of that?

The culture of history and basketball with the shoe was appropriated by mainstream culture as a fashion accessory since the 80’s. It’s basically built in. Metal guys, rappers, skateboarders, actors, etc. And I’m not even sure appropriated is the right word when the largest athletic apparel company in the world with a mostly white demographic and white designers are the ones pushing the product.

My take is as a 40 year old white guy who played basketball in OG Jordans. Anyone who wasn’t an athlete wearing them was a poser back then. If you were a benchwarmer and you’re wearing them? you were a poser too.

So I’ve always seen non-athletes wearing the shoe as the same thing across whatever culture they’re living in. I’m part of it now too as an old guy who isn’t hooping daily. But I can admit it’s nostalgia lol

These shoes have maintained sales in China, Africa, India, Japan, Europe across decades, where they don’t even have the cultural expectation of knowing basketball or MJ or an American brand the way we do.

So yeah, I see sneakers in hip-hop culture as only a small piece of the overall pie that makes up the entire thing. For your personal experience it may be a lot more central to it, but one thing I know is that there’s people in this hobby of all ages and races. Nike runners clubs from the 80’s that created life-long brand loyalists during the running craze, Reebok basketball guys from the 90’s, adidas fanatics that would wear 3 stripes everything, American-made only sneaker enthusiasts. It goes on and on.

 

[picasso swerve]

I’ve heard of Camron and Dipset. Never listened to their music.

And no. I don’t need to know who anyone is. I don’t need to be a part of any culture, scene, group, etc. to appreciate or like sneakers. I can like sneakers for the purity of liking sneakers. The only approval I need for sneakers and what I like is my own.

It aint even that deep. Jim Jones just a household name in my book, forget sneakers and all that.

 

[picasso swerve]

I wish I didnt know who he is… Bro is 47 and still trying to be a tough guy.

He a Harlem cat so...

 

[engineer]

Shoe companies created and cultivated “sneaker culture.” It’s actually kinda funny to read through all of this debate about who should be considered worthy enough to consume a product when it’s always been whoever is willing to buy it. Those dudes back in the 80s were serving the same function to the shoe companies as Travis, Kanye, etc today they just weren’t getting paid for it.

Btw do y’all really think the average person under 30 should know who Jim Jones is? I say that as someone who considers Diplomatic Immunity an all time classic and in my personal top 5 favorite albums. He came a long way but let’s not act like he wasn’t getting clowned when he first started rapping alongside Cam’ron and Juelz. We’re not exactly talking about Biggie or Jay-Z here. He was never top tier or super mainstream.

 

[cooljazz]

Owning the shoe doesn’t make them a fan though?These are the people who are buying the shoe for MJ?



I teach high schoolers I’ve asked them all questions about Jordan the most you will get out then is number of Championships if that.Wha

What grade do you teach? You can incorporate sneakers and some Jordan history into an SEL presentation at the beginning of the year. I used an “If you walked in my shoes” activity. I printed out a bunch of color sheets with all kinds of sneakers. I even had Crocs and Doc Martens. The kids picked a shoe and wrote things about themselves around the shoe and then designed it. I asked them to lightly write their name on the back. I taught freshman but they took pride in their work.. I used the data to spark in convos with the kids. The most popular sneaker was the Jordan IV. A lot of kids picked Crocs, Jordan XI and Jordan Vs. It was a good way to check the pulse of the youth.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

Wearing Jordans was hood dress until it wasn’t, before that wearing shell toes without the laces was ghetto before it wasn’t,

The only kids I knew with Jordan’s in the 80’s has parents that drove German cars. They were sold as a premium “performance” sneaker. Hood sneakers came from Payless.

What about kids in the 50’s wearing Chuck Taylor’s with leather jackets? They were viewed as outright criminals, until they weren’t…

No one reasonable can deny that hip hop culture has helped shape the way the world consumes sneakers. But unless there was hip hop in 1950, your own point here shows that “sneaker culture” exists independently of hip hop.

By 1988 Chucks were more of a skater thing in my world, they didn’t get nearly the love in the Hip Hop community that three stripes, Nike, or even Reebok got. Most of the people I knew with hi top chucks alternated them with Doc Martins and wore heavy metal T’s and raggedy jeans. This was not the Jeans West look.

People come at shoes and their identity wearing shoes in a variety of ways. Hip Hop culture is a legit and important entry point, but it’s certainly not the only one.

 

[KanyIZZY]

He didn’t use Chucks to suggest that sneaker culture is married to hip hop since the beginning of time. You warped it that way He used that statement to identify that times change which can affect how something gets viewed in culture over time.

 

[vegetaray123]

He didn’t use Chucks to suggest that sneaker culture is married to hip hop since the beginning of time. You warped it that way He used that statement to identify that times change which can affect how something gets viewed in culture over time.

 

[trappedintime]

Doesn’t change the point he was making which y’all ignored. There isn’t one entry point.

 

[buddhashark]

My entry point was those jawns that lit up on the bottom when you walked. When we getting a retro of those?

 

[cooljazz]

My entry point was those jawns that lit up on the bottom when you walked. When we getting a retro of those?

The LA Gear?! I see the ads for them all the time on IG! If they release the Olajuwon pair or the Joe Montana LA gear hiking boots, I might have to scoop them.

 

[KanyIZZY]

Doesn’t change the point he was making which y’all ignored. There isn’t one entry point.

Nah.. he said the point he was trying to make was that things don’t exist in a vacuum until they do. He supported that in that post. IDK who said there is only one entry point.. lol but hip hop/black culture had a significant hand in it more than any other and to that effect.. I’m seeing a lottt of resistance and warping on here

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

He didn’t use Chucks to suggest that sneaker culture is married to hip hop since the beginning of time. You warped it that way He used that statement to identify that times change which can affect how something gets viewed in culture over time.

I understood his point, I just pointed out that it illustrated a different point as well.

When people talk about knowing the history of the culture, are we going back to Jack Purcell wanting a quality badminton shoe? Or does the history just start when people first got into it?