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No flames here my dude. Maybe my pair was just bad I guess because the toe was abysmal on my pair. Even after wearing em around in high school a bit as well as here and there during my first 2 years of college, the toe never got better sadly.In for a pair of these for sure. The recent 13s get a lot of hate that I truly do not understand. The toe does not look bad at all when on foot. The pairs I wear feel close to what I remember in 98. The toe boxes do not look as bad as people describe. Shape may be off, but not as noticeable imo. As far as the black red pair in 2017, I like the red better on them than I do my 2004 pair. Both are DS. I got my flamespoonman suit zipped up and ready. lol.