Let's talk about Kobe's legacy......try your hardest to be objective...

[doublejs07]

As a hypothetical, let's say he and the Lakers advance to the Finals...but they lose. When it's all said and done, will people remember his 3 Finalswins, or 3 Finals losses? Now, making the finals 6 times regardless of sport is an impressive feat in itself. Obviously he's been on both sides in theW/L column. How does that play into how people view his legacy when he decides to hang them up?

In another sport, look at a guy like John Elway. He was a SB loser 3 times, before winning 2 in his final years as a Bronco. He will always be remember as a"winner" due to his success right be fore he retired. Legacy cemented. Going back to basketball, guys who only win ONE championship in their latteryears have cememnted their legacies as well (KG & Ray).

Anyways, we're all going to remember Kobe as being one of the most talented athletes to ever play in the NBA. To me, it seems like there is some sort ofunderlying double-standard when discussing his mark on the NBA. IMO, it seems like people totally discredit the work he put in w. Shaq & Co. when they won3 championships a few years back. I have a feeling that if he does lose 3 finals, he's not going to be looked at in the same light by many people,regardless of the rings he already has.....

anyone else with me on this?

 

[bigmike23]

as one of the greats that has 3 champship rings

 

[got shoes]

LOVE/HATE. That is his legacy

 

[jville819]

Originally Posted by got shoes

LOVE/HATE. That is his legacy

Basically

You gonna have the people who love him and will put him in the top as one of the greatest to ever play. You'll have dudes who won't even acknowledgehis greatness because they hate him so much

 

[pr0phecy718]

 

[651akathepaul]

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

 

[MVP]

Originally Posted by got shoes

LOVE/HATE. That is his legacy

/thread. His legacy will be just like that commercial where he's working out.

Maybe appreciation for his greatness will come long after his career is over.

 

[mjsaver]

Originally Posted by jville819

Originally Posted by got shoes

LOVE/HATE. That is his legacy

Basically

You gonna have the people who love him and will put him in the top as one of the greatest to ever play. You'll have dudes who won't even acknowledge his greatness because they hate him so much

I AGREE...

HES SUCH A POLARIZING FIGURE THAT HIS LEGACY WILL BE ALL OVER THE PLACE..

FOR ME THOUGH, HES DEF ONE OF THE GREATEST TO STEP ON THE HARDWOOD..

 

[bigtimejerky]

greatest offensive player to play the game since Wilt... but not the greatest. If that makes sense. 81 is just ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

I agree 100% with that statement.....

To everyone saying he'll have a love/hate relationship, i don't think it will really be that bad. He neverreally had an on court d-bag situation (if I'm forgetting anything on-court let me know lol) like Isaiah Thomas walking off the court along with the BadBoys. That in my mind really put a dent in Thomas' legacy. But I don't think Kobe ever had anything on-court that bad. He will be known as one of thegreatest, borderline arrogant/cocky but was able to back it up. The whole Colorado incident seems to have disappeared so that NBD.
All in all he'll be remember as a great great great player once he wins another ring, if not it will be tied with (the aforementioned) succeeding only withShaq.

 

[downtown43]

people only hate on Kobe because there was a period of time when he was being compared to Jordan. so they can laugh and say "haha, Kobe fell short of MJagain" when something happens. but if you look at what he's done without a pro-Jordan bias, Kobe is really putting together one of the all-time greatNBA careers.

it's like how in the 90s, people would hate on Stockton, or Malone, or Ewing for consistently falling short of Jordan. but 10 years later, if you step backand take a look at what they actually did, those guys are all among the best the league has ever seen.


despite his (and every other NBA player's) failures to come close to Jordan.. when his career is over and the dust settles, Kobe will be recognized as atop 15 player all time, and the best to ever play the SG position behind MJ.

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

i disagree.

as for the whole Kobe/Shaq thing, Jerry West won 1 championship, but 40 years later, nobody talks about how it was actually Wilt who carried West and theLakers to that championship. they just say "Jerry West was a great winner and an NBA champion, blah blah." so IMO, years from now, people will justsay "Kobe Bryant was a 3 time champion" (assuming he doesn't win again).

 

[eneyekayee]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

Came in here to say those EXACT words.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

But why is that a bad thing?

 

[eneyekayee]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

But why is that a bad thing?

Because Shaq won one w/o him. I can go into greater detail, but I think that says enough.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

But why is that a bad thing?

Not saying it is. He got rings. 3...Most don't have one, but when you talk Kobe and his legacy it's automatic that you compare it to that of theAll-Time NBA greats. And because of this fact, and the fact that Shaq was one of, if not the most dominating player, who won elsewhere, its only natural todrop his legacy down a few notches in comparison to others....(You know who I mean). That's just how it is.

Despite it being is OWN legacy, it still will be compared...which in that sense hurts Kobe.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

But why is that a bad thing?

Because Shaq won one w/o him. I can go into greater detail, but I think that says enough.

Shaq also had a dominant Dwayne Wade as a sidekick....it's not like Shaq is winning these all on his own. Besides, he AND Kobe do have a finals losstogether anyways...

 

[MVP]

I have a question, if he DOES win another ring, where will he rack in the pantheon of all time greats? And what will the haters be able to say then?

 

[statis22]

Top 15 all time

But there is a certain "either you like him or hate him" mentality with him

But all the greats have it

 

[36Hypno]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by Statis22

But there is a certain "either you like him or hate him" mentality with him

But all the greats have it

Exactly.... I just don't think it will be nearly as bad a love/hate with him in, say, 15 years from now.
Jordan used to almost have the same love/hate about him back in the day. Now everybody d-rides him like no other....

 

[scotthallwithapick]

He'll be like Stevie Ray form Harlem Heat. One of the greatest Tag Teams of all time but Shaq is Booker T. He goes down in history as apart of one of thegreatest duos to bless the court and not one of the greatest players to touch the court. If you follow wrestling you get what I mean.

 

[hueyp in louiev]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

But why is that a bad thing?

Because Shaq won one w/o him. I can go into greater detail, but I think that says enough.

Shaq also had a dominant Dwayne Wade as a sidekick....it's not like Shaq is winning these all on his own. Besides, he AND Kobe do have a finals loss together anyways...

But Shaq went somewhere else and got another ring right away with another young player. He did it with Penny, with Kobe and with D Wade.

What happened to those teams after Shaq has left?...No rings. That makes it seem (rightfully so) that Shaq was the motivating factor and not vice verse.

If Kobe can't win a ring with this Lakers team this season or in the next 2-3, his legacy will definitely revolve around Shaq and the great Lakers teams,with a hint of him mostly being a great scrorer and indivual player....If he wins just one chip as a leader of this team...hes automatically elevated to theMJ, Magic and Larry Legend Convo.



Oh yeah...1000 pages.

 

[eneyekayee]

Alright, let me go into further detail

...Shaq & Kobe were 3/4 in the NBA Finals together. The 3 times they won, who was the most dominant player onthe court? SHAQ, hands down (look @ his 3 NBA Finals MVP's trophies w/the Lakeshow). No knock on KB8, just THE TRUTH/FACTS. The Lakers/Shaq probably (95%sure) they wouldn't have won a title w/o KB8. When Kobe got his 3 rings though, HE WASN'T EVEN IN HIS PRIME YET. He was still a young pup. He wasShaq's Pippen @ the time. That's the problem I have personally.

EDIT: If KB24 wins this year, I will give him ALL THE PROPS IN THE WORLD.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Bottom line is if he doesn't win one again, his legacy will be tied to succeeding only with Shaq.

But why is that a bad thing?

Because Shaq won one w/o him. I can go into greater detail, but I think that says enough.

Shaq also had a dominant Dwayne Wade as a sidekick....it's not like Shaq is winning these all on his own. Besides, he AND Kobe do have a finals loss together anyways...

But Shaq went somewhere else and got another ring right away with another young player. He did it with Penny, with Kobe and with D Wade.

What happened to those teams after Shaq has left?...No rings. That makes it seem (rightfully so) that Shaq was the motivating factor and not vice verse.

If Kobe can't win a ring with this Lakers team this season or in the next 2-3, his legacy will definitely revolve around Shaq and the great Lakers teams, with a hint of him mostly being a great scrorer and indivual player....If he wins just one chip as a leader of this team...hes automatically elevated to the MJ, Magic and Larry Legend Convo.



Oh yeah...1000 pages.

He didn't win a ring with Penny in Orlando...But I get what you're saying.

 

[illoquent aka dsk]

[h3]try your hardest to be objective...[/h3]

Considering we're in the S&T forum of Niketalk...that's asking for too much from most here.

To answer your question, a lot of people have a tendency to remember what you did last instead of the entire span of a career...so him not winning again wouldhave his name linked with Shaq as one of the NBA's greatest duos and Kobe as a great player in his own right (took the throne after MJ), but he'd alsobe remembered for not winning one "on his own".

But I think there's still too many years left in his career and unforseen events that will either help/hurt his legacy...in my opinion, in order toseparate himself from Shaq and Phil's image from the Laker 3 peat, he has to win at least onemore 'chip before his career is over. Maybe two.

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

But Shaq went somewhere else and got another ring right away with another young player. He did it with Penny, with Kobe and with D Wade.

What happened to those teams after Shaq has left?...No rings. That makes it seem (rightfully so) that Shaq was the motivating factor and not vice verse.

If Kobe can't win a ring with this Lakers team this season or in the next 2-3, his legacy will definitely revolve around Shaq and the great Lakers teams, with a hint of him mostly being a great scrorer and indivual player....If he wins just one chip as a leader of this team...hes automatically elevated to the MJ, Magic and Larry Legend Convo.


Oh yeah...1000 pages.

He didn't win a title with Penny though...

It's not because of Shaq leaving that the Heat haven't won any more rings...they were just an old team. I hope people don't assume that.

But I feel what you're sayin', we're both on the same page.