LOST (GOAT SERIES) OFFICIAL THREAD VOL YOU CAN GO NOW.

[ryaneff23]

Lost was cool and the season finale was pretty good even with all the unanswered mysteries, but some of these GOAT type comments are OD. 


The Wire > Lost


And it's not even up for debate. 

 

[viewtiful mik3]

Originally Posted by Falcon4567

Originally Posted by Viewtiful Mik3

My beef with the "purgatory" ending is

I remember like a season ago, there was a Q+A with the writers and someone specifically asked

if they were stuck in purgatory

The writers said "no"

then they give us the ol okey doke

unless i'm totally puliln this outta my shoot, the ending was whack

They always said the island wasn't purgatory and in that sense they never lied.

Alright,
but doesn't that seem like a cop out

The "ISLAND" isn't purgatory (via season 5)
let's just create an entire timeline/plot that IS purgatory

don't get me wrong, i loved/love lost, i'm just saying the ending was a cop out

 

[whywesteppin]

Originally Posted by Falcon4567

I can't be mad. Lost gave us so many good moments.

But still... there's so much left. WE HAVE TO GO BACK.

 

[paul is a reseller ph1k85]

Originally Posted by ChineyRoyal

Originally Posted by Crook

Hey something I just thought about (might've already been discussed/answered, or maybe I'm just dumb) but so if the "sideways" world wasn't actually an alternate reality and was purgatory, then what did the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 do? Did it not create an alternate world?
Also, why would there have been a sunken island in this purgatory world? Was that just the writer's way of trying to trick us into thinking it was an alternate reality?

I don't think the bomb did anything but explode.

The bomb brought them back to the present time

 

[crank lucas]

Originally Posted by ryaneff23


Lost was cool and the season finale was pretty good even with all the unanswered mysteries, but some of these GOAT type comments are OD. 


The Wire > Lost


And it's not even up for debate. 

^^^ only on nt will you read such tomfoolery

 

[bleezys and heem]

this dude tombout the Wire > LOST

na man, hell na man

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by Crank Lucas

Originally Posted by ryaneff23


Lost was cool and the season finale was pretty good even with all the unanswered mysteries, but some of these GOAT type comments are OD. 


The Wire > Lost


And it's not even up for debate. 

^^^ only on nt will you read such tomfoolery

The Wire got better quotables than Lost. Just words of wisdom for life. 
But I'd watch Lost over again, before I'd watch The Wire again. Even though I know I'm gonna watch both over again one day.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John Adam's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

And awesome stuff, as always, from everyone on here over the past few years! You guys rock!

Summary: The Sideways universe was "purgatory," a place between life and death that the characters created to meet with each other and move on. This is based on the idea that the characters were all connected and fated to move on to death or heaven or the afterlife together - that they lived together (on the island) and they died together (in the Sideways). The characters were awakened to this idea while in the Sideways by finding their soulmates, anchors, or constants and flashing all their memories from their life, then being brought together as a group to move on.

This made me appreciate the ending a lot more. I was hoping for some kind of shocking twist or epic moment, but now that I fully understand the Sideways and the church ending, the way that they ended the show was beautiful. It will resonate with me for a long time, and I'm sure a lot of people will learn to appreciate it over time.

My only complaints with the show lie with how scattered some of the storytelling has been. There wouldn't be so much confusion over the ending, or the purpose of the time-traveling, or why the Smoke Monster tried to pull Locke down a hole in season 1 if the writing was a little more linear and/or clearer. I was hoping for some sort of scene that laid out the MiB's plan, describing everything that he had done (i.e. taken the image of Jack's dad, Ben's mom, etc. to manipulate them to do different things) and pull all these confusing elements together.

As for the complaints about the unanswered questions: A lot of them have been explained, just not as clearly as some of us would like, OR they were never really mysteries in the first place (i.e. the Hurley Bird). There are a few big ones left (i.e. Walt, the whole deal with the cabin, the magic box that brought Locke's dad to the island), but I'm not pissed that we didn't get answers.

 

[extraordinary swag]

Originally Posted by Crank Lucas

Originally Posted by ryaneff23


Lost was cool and the season finale was pretty good even with all the unanswered mysteries, but some of these GOAT type comments are OD. 


The Wire > Lost


And it's not even up for debate. 

^^^ only on nt will you read such tomfoolery

Or the Washington Post or The British newspaper The Guardian or the Chicago Sun Times or Time Magazine

Only on NT do people believe that a population doesn't exist outside of NT. The Wire was just as much if not more critically acclaimed than Lost ever was, it just wasn't the ratings juggernaut.


But this thread isn't about The Wire, I'm sure those debates will come years later once the Lost finale has finally sunk in for all of us.

 

[mitchellicious]

Franchise3 pretty much summed up my thoughts on the whole show, DubA and SunDOOBIE as well to a certain degree. Why even bother with all the mystery and what not if they're not going to explain any of it? A lot of you guys that are defending Lost cannot ignore the fact that there was so much wasted potential in the plots / ideas and that the writers set themselves up for failure from the start.

The show had a strong enough premise / actors / creative team / location to make a strong and compelling storyline without involving a whole bunch of hoodoo voodoo nonsense and just focusing on the characters. They chose not to go this route however and decided to throw a whole bunch of ideas at a wall and see which ones would stick. Unfortunately only a few of those ideas ever got fully explored and the rest were left behind to ultimately make a stock standard melodrama with religious undertones.

If the only reason for the mysterious aspects of the show was to draw in viewers or create ratings, then that is the biggest cop-out of all. As someone who has watched the show from the very first episode and fell in love with the characters AND the mysteries I myself am extremely disappointed that they left the most enjoyable (in my opinion) aspect of the show behind to wind up with a show that didn't need smoke monsters or Hurley birds or polar bears or frozen donkey wheels or magical lighthouses or numbers. If people were truly invested in the characters than they would've watched the show anyways, I know that if they had never introduced any of that other stuff then it still would've been one of the most compelling television shows of our generation. That wasn't the case however and the writers should be held accountable for these faults.

You can and should be able to see rationally why some of us are upset.

Also the Pulp Fiction and Lost In Translation comparisons aren't entirely accurate, in those instances the withholding of information was widely seen as a positive rather than a negative. It's a lot easier to forgive and forget when a piece of media is only 90 minutes or 2 hours long, but the writers of Lost had 121 hours give or take 15 hours or so for commercial breaks to explain any kooky idea that they came up with and they didn't explain a lot of the major ones. They get a big stoneface for that.

 

[crazy ebw]

The bird said Hurley. Big deal. People whining about the most irrelevant things is what's sad.

 

[cadillacflow]

Originally Posted by Crook

Hey something I just thought about (might've already been discussed/answered, or maybe I'm just dumb) but so if the "sideways" world wasn't actually an alternate reality and was purgatory, then what did the bomb explosion at the end of season 5 do? Did it not create an alternate world?
Also, why would there have been a sunken island in this purgatory world? Was that just the writer's way of trying to trick us into thinking it was an alternate reality?

No not an alternate world, it created the incident, and shot them back to the "present" time. As far as the island being sunk..... IDK possibly red herring word to Jacob.

Originally Posted by FlatbushFiyah23

Itsfunny to me that the people who really complain about a handful ofquestions that were not answered in the framework of the show probablymiss the many questions that actually were answered in the show.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by certified hustler11

Justanother random thought/ theory: Ghost Walt that kept appearing toShannon and to Locke when he was in the Dharma skeleton pit would seemto be the Smoke Monster. He suckered Shannon into being shot by AnaLucia. Locke got suckered into killing Naomi. Also, Ghost Horace thatappeared in Locke's dream that gave him directions to the cabin wouldalso seem to be the Smoke Monster. This lead Locke on a series ofevents that ultimately lead to his death and eventually takeover of hisbody for the Man in Black.

Good GREAT theory. Make's A LOT of sense.

Originally Posted by ryaneff23


Lostwas cool and the season finale was pretty good even with all theunanswered mysteries, but some of these GOAT type comments are OD. 

LOST is the GOAT to me. But, I also thought the Wire was a one point in my life. I LOVE them both. But, if I was stuck on an island with one show to watch forever... it would be LOST.  No question.


AND WHERE THE HECK IS VOZZEK'S WRITE-UP?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[duba169]

i think re-watching lost will just be painful to be honest. plot holes and dead ends, hilarious motivation later in the series, wasted potential all over the place, irrelevant characters in season 6.

cmon man these writers were allowed to do ANYTHING they wanted with this show. and this was the best they could come up with? a waiting room to move on? and i'm supposed to be impressed?

there was a time when lost was the greatest show ever made. probably in the back of my top 10 of all time now.

and the wire is the way you end a series properly. not the damn clip show that we got.

 

[crook]

beautifully worded man. Could NOT have worded it better myself. The other thing is that it takes so much away from the rewatch value of the show. It would be near impossible for me to watch earlier seasons without getting frustrated at how incoherent and pointless certain things are.And to people who keep bashing those for bringing up mysteries from the early seasons of the show: as my English teacher once said, a well written book is coherent in that ALL of its chapters including its earlier ones tie into the final resolution. So in fact these people's points are not null or void.

Originally Posted by Mitchellicious

Franchise3 pretty much summed up my thoughts on the whole show, DubA and SunDOOBIE as well to a certain degree. Why even bother with all the mystery and what not if they're not going to explain any of it? A lot of you guys that are defending Lost cannot ignore the fact that there was so much wasted potential in the plots / ideas and that the writers set themselves up for failure from the start.

The show had a strong enough premise / actors / creative team / location to make a strong and compelling storyline without involving a whole bunch of hoodoo voodoo nonsense and just focusing on the characters. They chose not to go this route however and decided to throw a whole bunch of ideas at a wall and see which ones would stick. Unfortunately only a few of those ideas ever got fully explored and the rest were left behind to ultimately make a stock standard melodrama with religious undertones.

If the only reason for the mysterious aspects of the show was to draw in viewers or create ratings, then that is the biggest cop-out of all. As someone who has watched the show from the very first episode and fell in love with the characters AND the mysteries I myself am extremely disappointed that they left the most enjoyable (in my opinion) aspect of the show behind to wind up with a show that didn't need smoke monsters or Hurley birds or polar bears or frozen donkey wheels or magical lighthouses or numbers. If people were truly invested in the characters than they would've watched the show anyways, I know that if they had never introduced any of that other stuff then it still would've been one of the most compelling television shows of our generation. That wasn't the case however and the writers should be held accountable for these faults.

You can and should be able to see rationally why some of us are upset.

Also the Pulp Fiction and Lost In Translation comparisons aren't entirely accurate, in those instances the withholding of information was widely seen as a positive rather than a negative. It's a lot easier to forgive and forget when a piece of media is only 90 minutes or 2 hours long, but the writers of Lost had 121 hours give or take 15 hours or so for commercial breaks to explain any kooky idea that they came up with and they didn't explain a lot of the major ones. They get a big stoneface for that.

 

[cadillacflow]

I just don't see how people still consider LOST to be more mystery based than character based.....

I'll say it again, as a whole LOST was basically the story of Jack and what got him to the Church.

 

[sn00pee]

Originally Posted by CadillacFLOW

I just don't see how people still consider LOST to be more mystery based than character based.....

I'll say it again, as a whole LOST was basically the story of Jack and what got him to the Church.

what are you smoking?!? you must just came in on season six or something...

 

[cadillacflow]

I don't smoke. And no, I've seen the whole series, seem's like other people haven't.

LOST started with Jack, ended with Jack, and had a lot of Jack in between.

 

[extraordinary swag]

This is my overall view of how it ended. It was A PERFECT for the end of A SEASON, but taking season 1-5 into account it wasn't a great end to the SERIES. Simple as that. I don't see how some of yall are just dismissing what seasons 1-5 built up, and that's not the fault of the audience either. That's all on the WRITERS IMO

You can say it started with Jack and ended with Jack but that's minimizing every other character and their importance to the plot of each season. We all knew Jack was the main character but for 5 seasons they made just as much of an effort to play up the other characters as well. Especially in the earlier seasons where we learned the survivors origins.

Lindelof and Cuse knew what they were doing when they put that line in for Desmond when he tells Jack/Locke "None of this matters". To me, that right there meant season 1-5 had ZERO impact on season 6 which I think cheapened the series.

 

[cadillacflow]

Seems like a pretty good article. Haven't read it all yet. Gonna put it in spoiler so it don't make the page extra long.....

http://screenrant.com/los...nation-kofi-61464/all/1/

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

[h1]Lost’ Finale Explained: Answering the Unanswered Questions [Updated][/h1]
In our Lost Finale Explanation we address the questions that left fans confused and/or upset by how Lost ended its run.

[Update: We've added even more Lost explanations!]

If you’ve visited our Lost series finale review and discussion, you know that opinion is sharply divided over how one of the biggest TV shows of the last decade came to a close.

Some people thought the ending couldn’t have been any sweeter, while others are either frustrated or disappointed with how Lost ultimately wrapped.

However, there are those out there who are currently feeling confused about how Lost cameto a close and ‘what it all meant.’ So to help these (snicker) lostsouls out, we thought we’d at least try and offer some quickexplanations of some of the lingering questions. Hopefully it helps anddoesn’t just further confuse.

It must be noted that unlike sites like Lostpedia, I haven’t done years and years of research on this. I’m just a moderate Lost fan who happens to have a good mind for literary analysis. So here goes nothing. And in case you haven’t guessed already:
[h2][MAJOR SPOILER ALERT!!!][/h2]
-
[h4]THEY WERE NOT “DEAD THE WHOLE TIME[/h4]

 

[extraordinary swag]

Hell of a find CadillacFLOW

I think that article will shut everyone up finally

 

[damnitzdom]

Jacob NEEDED Widmore to come back. Widmore even said that himself. I'm sure there was a rule about being banished and not being able to come back but it was changed when Jacob needed Desmond.

Jacob has to protect the island. He wasn't all about the Dharma Initiative so he had them all killed. Simple right? Protect it at all cost, even if lives are lost because it would be for the greater good.



I AM a little bugged about Kate and her damn horse.

 

[sundoobie]

Originally Posted by ExtRaOrDinaRy SwAg

Hell of a find CadillacFLOW

I think that article will shut everyone up finally

How did it shut everyone up?  Granted it's a great article summarizing everything however the article still posted various negatives about the show.

However, there are some things that were definitely left unexplained: Why did the Man In Black become a smoke monster when he was exposed to the light (was it a manifestation of his corrupted soul)?; What is the nature of the “rules

 

[damnitzdom]

I think the theory of travel and parallel universes state that there are several worlds rather one. So if something happened in the past it would effect that future, not ours. I think.

 

[jd0t86]

I enjoyed the ending of LOST way more than the ending of The Wire. I still think The Wire still a bit better.

 

[its that dude]

that article didn't explain anything. the whole purgatory plot still bothers me. it would've made a lot more sense it if was an alternate reality.

How would the losties be able to set up a place to be able to move on, but know nothing about it?

If the hydrogen bomb exploded back in Season 5, why didn't they all die? If it didn't explode, why did only the losties travel forward in time?

Why the hell did Juliet say that "it worked?" Nothing worked. It only would've worked if it created the alternate reality where the losties would have been able to continue on with their lives. I think somewhere in season 6, the writers decided to change the alternate reality to the purgatory. This is the reason why they showed the little differences in people's lives in the alternate reality. Otherwise, if it was purgatory, none of that events mattered and wasted half of season 6.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

GODDAMN IT. after writing all that, I just watched the final scenes of jack and his father and the church scene for clarification, I don't really care about all that now. That was just a great way to end Lost.