Magic, Jordan, Kobe and Lebron Vol. First RING numbers.

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by ACBboyz84

Originally Posted by quik1987

Originally Posted by knightngale

even if you discredit those first 3 rings he is still 2-1 over lebron and wade as a first option

Kobe started 1996

Lebron and Wade started 2003

Kobe as a first option didn't get a good team until 2009

Kobe as first option 2-3 in Finals

Lebron , Wade 1-3 lol

Funny thing is Wade and Lebron is on the same team.

What's funny is that Kobe was the first option long before that.

He was the first option for the first time in the 2002-03. The Lakers lost in the second round.
The following season they made the finals. Instead of playing for the NBA championship trophy, he tried exclusively to play for the Finals MVP trophy. Why? He was salty as hell of people saying that he was piggyback riding Shaq for those 3 rings. He knew it was true so he figured he'd gun for the finals MVP no matter what happened. So instead of passing the ball to a well over 60% shooting Shaq those finals, he took many more shots than Shaq per game and bricked the vast majority of them, shooting under 40%, losing the finals and ultimately running Shaq out of town.

Lol at you still trying to discredit Kobe for what he did for the Lakers. Kobe put in work Period. He HELPED Shaq. Therefore he earned his name on the ring. Of course Shaq dominated because he got Jeff Foster and Rik Smith guarding him in 2000 while playing 2 feet away from the basket ? Shaq couldn't do it when he got to play defense on Hakeem while being checked by Hakeem . My point is Kobe put in work so the Lakers can get to the Finals. You can't discredit Kobe . Go back and watch wcf games

My question was how come Shaq didn't win when he got a prime Penny ? Your answer is because Hakeem lol. Thank you for seeing the light


What the hell is the matter with you?

I am not here to discuss WHY Shaq was dominant. I know damn well the centers sucked during that era. I am here to point out the fact that Shaq WAS dominant. That is the whole friggin point of my post, to show the luxury Kobe had playing next to a player who was so dominant that nobody in the league could do anything to stop him.

What exactly is your point with this anyway? How the hell does the fact hat Shaq played against crappy centers exactly work in favor of your pro-Kobe argument?

Without Kobe playing great defense and playing the facilitator role during those WCF games . The Lakers wouldnt even advance to the Finals.


Without Shaq, the Lakers wouldn't even make the playoffs, or at least not out of the first round. Oh wait, that actually happened in the 2004-05 season, and 2006 and 2007 playoffs, just before the exposed Kobe demanded a trade.

You posted a video the BEST game of Kobe from that three-peat, but I can post 5-6 games from Shaq from those three finals series alone that are better than that game. Another example of how far behind Shaq dominance-wise Kobe was during that period. And I can post a ton of playoff highlight games from Iverson, McGrady and VC.

You mentioned guy like Tmac, AI , VC etc. Those guys play zero defense. Unlike them Kobe in his physical prime was a great lock down defensive player.

And Kobe > Tmac, AI VC even as second option 29.ppg as a second option playing on the WEST conference vs SPurs, Kings Portland. Nuff said


What great perimeter players did those teams have for Kobe's "lock down" defense to be more valuable than McGrady's, Carter's or Iverson's would have been? Mike Bibby?

And by the way no, 2000-2004 Kobe Bryant was not better than 2000-2004 Tracy McGrady. What's hilarious is you thinking that Kobe had it "hard" in the west. Yeah, poor baby. He had it so hard with Shaq drawing the vast majority of the opponents defensive attention every game.

You said Kobe was meh in 2001 . LOL you obviously didn't watch him. Here one of what he did against the SPurs http://www.youtube.com/wa...pnmAk2xU&feature=related

and then against the Kings

But still in your view. Kobe was meh . What a troll you are
Again. Lebron is great than Jordan because he got 8 imaginary rings right ?


Yes, as I said in my first post, Kobe was meh in the 2001 finals and was the reason why the Lakers didn't go 16-0 those playoffs.

And you keep taking comfort in the three imaginary rings Kobe won between 2000-02 in the parallel universe where he wasn't piggyback riding Shaq.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by franchise3

Even I can say Kobe is a great player. But, let's be real. Put any wings back in the day with the force that was Shaquille O'Neal, and the results would have been the same. To say otherwise, is being blinded by Kobe fanism.

So 21 year old VC, Pierce, and TMac were gonna take 4 straight shots in OT, on the road, in the finals, without Shaq, and make all 4? 

That was happening? 

Oh

  

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by franchise3

Even I can say Kobe is a great player. But, let's be real. Put any wings back in the day with the force that was Shaquille O'Neal, and the results would have been the same. To say otherwise, is being blinded by Kobe fanism.

any wing though, really?
people forget Kobe was also the best defensive player on those teams. 

 

[itsabaythang]

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by franchise3

Even I can say Kobe is a great player. But, let's be real. Put any wings back in the day with the force that was Shaquille O'Neal, and the results would have been the same. To say otherwise, is being blinded by Kobe fanism.

Definitely, QFT. (Even though that's kind of a "what if" scenario so we don't know for sure what would happen with any of those wings, but I see where you're saying and I agree with you.)  
At the same time though, there is no denying that he is the greatest laker of all time…hell he's top 5 of all time period to me. When you look at what he's done throughout his career, it's almost undeniable. How anyone can dispute this is borderline hating imo

Kobe : 5 rings, 1 mvp, 2 finals mvps
Magic : 5 rings, 3 mvps, 3 finals mvps

Im looking at what they done throughout their career.  Exactly how is there "no denying that he is the greatest laker of all time" or am I just hating? Try to atleast justify your arguments with some logical sense before hitting the post button.

 

[shoeking2101]

Originally Posted by ItsaBayThang

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by franchise3

Even I can say Kobe is a great player. But, let's be real. Put any wings back in the day with the force that was Shaquille O'Neal, and the results would have been the same. To say otherwise, is being blinded by Kobe fanism.

Definitely, QFT. (Even though that's kind of a "what if" scenario so we don't know for sure what would happen with any of those wings, but I see where you're saying and I agree with you.)  
At the same time though, there is no denying that he is the greatest laker of all time…hell he's top 5 of all time period to me. When you look at what he's done throughout his career, it's almost undeniable. How anyone can dispute this is borderline hating imo

Kobe : 5 rings, 1 mvp, 2 finals mvps
Magic : 5 rings, 3 mvps, 3 finals mvps

Im looking at what they done throughout their career.  Exactly how is there "no denying that he is the greatest laker of all time" or am I just hating? Try to atleast justify your arguments with some logical sense before hitting the post button.

Their achievements aren't that far apart. Kobe has won rings, finals mvps, regular season mvps, etc. point is, its basically a wash when it comes down to their accomplishments. To me, (And to magic johnson if that counts for anything) Kobe is just flat out a better player than magic. Could score better, much better defender, and could shoot better. I guess one could say magic is the better passer, although to me Kobe isn't known as the better passer because of his emphasis on scoring throughout his career. 
Prove to me how any of the above is wrong…that's why there's no denying it to me sir. 

 

[dt43]

and Xta-whatever, it's crazy how you've been running around bashing Lebron haters, when literally everything you say in that instance can be applied to you and Kobe.

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Sucks to be a lowlife scum of the earth hater today. I don't know what I'm more happy about: LeBron winning or knowing that you lowlifes who have been rooting for the greatest player since Michael Jordan to fail out of nothing but pure HATE have pure SODIUM running through your veins right now.

so replace that with Kobe and i'm assuming that's how you felt... FIVE times. 

even if you don't do it online, i hope you at least admit to yourself that you're biased. 

 

[quik1987]

Originally Posted by CP1708

franchise3 wrote:

---

Even I can say Kobe is a great player. But, let's be real. Put any wings back in the day with the force that was Shaquille O'Neal, and the results would have been the same. To say otherwise, is being blinded by Kobe fanism.

So 21 year old VC, Pierce, and TMac were gonna take 4 straight shots in OT, on the road, in the finals, without Shaq, and make all 4? 

That was happening? 

Oh

  


TMac 2000-2001 playoffs (21)
33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3apg

but if you replaced Kobe with him he wouldn't have won with Shaq?

Right

The rest went to college

 

[itsabaythang]

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by ItsaBayThang

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Definitely, QFT. (Even though that's kind of a "what if" scenario so we don't know for sure what would happen with any of those wings, but I see where you're saying and I agree with you.)  
At the same time though, there is no denying that he is the greatest laker of all time…hell he's top 5 of all time period to me. When you look at what he's done throughout his career, it's almost undeniable. How anyone can dispute this is borderline hating imo

Kobe : 5 rings, 1 mvp, 2 finals mvps
Magic : 5 rings, 3 mvps, 3 finals mvps

Im looking at what they done throughout their career.  Exactly how is there "no denying that he is the greatest laker of all time" or am I just hating? Try to atleast justify your arguments with some logical sense before hitting the post button.

Their achievements aren't that far apart. Kobe has won rings, finals mvps, regular season mvps, etc. point is, its basically a wash when it comes down to their accomplishments. To me, (And to magic johnson if that counts for anything) Kobe is just flat out a better player than magic. Could score better, much better defender, and could shoot better. I guess one could say magic is the better passer, although to me Kobe isn't known as the better passer because of his emphasis on scoring throughout his career. 
Prove to me how any of the above is wrong…that's why there's no denying it to me sir. 

You said "when you look at what hes done throughout his career".  I gave you a list of what both have done throughout their careers.  Now you say Kobe is just flat out a better player than Magic.  And then you negate Magics far superior passing ability because of kobes "emphasis on scoring throughout his career".  But it doesnt matter what I say cause to you "Theres No Denying Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time" even though hes the only Laker Great you ever saw play for LA.  

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by quik1987

Originally Posted by CP1708

franchise3 wrote:

---

Even I can say Kobe is a great player. But, let's be real. Put any wings back in the day with the force that was Shaquille O'Neal, and the results would have been the same. To say otherwise, is being blinded by Kobe fanism.

So 21 year old VC, Pierce, and TMac were gonna take 4 straight shots in OT, on the road, in the finals, without Shaq, and make all 4? 

That was happening? 

Oh

  

TMac 2000-2001 playoffs (21)
33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3apg

but if you replaced Kobe with him he wouldn't have won with Shaq?

Right

The rest went to college

T-Mac didn't play 1 on 1 defense like Kobe and lost in 4 games to the Charlotte Hornets because no one would step up and stop Baron Davis.

And 2000-2001, was Lakers ring #2.  We could extend the conversation rings 1 and 3 and question where T-Mac was those years too.  His numbers as the second option to Vince were kinda average.  He woulda complimented Shaq better than Kobe did that year?

 

[shoeking2101]

Originally Posted by ItsaBayThang

Originally Posted by shoeking2101

Originally Posted by ItsaBayThang


Kobe : 5 rings, 1 mvp, 2 finals mvps
Magic : 5 rings, 3 mvps, 3 finals mvps

Im looking at what they done throughout their career.  Exactly how is there "no denying that he is the greatest laker of all time" or am I just hating? Try to atleast justify your arguments with some logical sense before hitting the post button.

Their achievements aren't that far apart. Kobe has won rings, finals mvps, regular season mvps, etc. point is, its basically a wash when it comes down to their accomplishments. To me, (And to magic johnson if that counts for anything) Kobe is just flat out a better player than magic. Could score better, much better defender, and could shoot better. I guess one could say magic is the better passer, although to me Kobe isn't known as the better passer because of his emphasis on scoring throughout his career. 
Prove to me how any of the above is wrong…that's why there's no denying it to me sir. 

You said "when you look at what hes done throughout his career".  I gave you a list of what both have done throughout their careers.  Now you say Kobe is just flat out a better player than Magic.  And then you negate Magics far superior passing ability because of kobes "emphasis on scoring throughout his career".  But it doesnt matter what I say cause to you "Theres No Denying Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time" even though hes the only Laker Great you ever saw play for LA.  

Well, look at what they've both done throughout their career, when it comes to achievements. Its a wash, that was my point. And is Kobe not a flat out better player than Magic? I basically said Magic was a better passer than Kobe. I'm sure passing to the greatest scorer in NBA history helps in that regard though. With Kobe's ability to create, if he was a point and not a two playing with Kareem, Worthy, and the rest of showtime, I believe his passing would be almost up to par.
But aside of the passing, what does Magic do better than Kobe? Name it

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by quik1987

Originally Posted by CP1708

franchise3 wrote:

---

Even I can say Kobe is a great player. But, let's be real. Put any wings back in the day with the force that was Shaquille O'Neal, and the results would have been the same. To say otherwise, is being blinded by Kobe fanism.

So 21 year old VC, Pierce, and TMac were gonna take 4 straight shots in OT, on the road, in the finals, without Shaq, and make all 4? 

That was happening? 

Oh

  

TMac 2000-2001 playoffs (21)
33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3apg

but if you replaced Kobe with him he wouldn't have won with Shaq?

Right

The rest went to college
Awwww, you showed me some first round stats, how cute. 

I said FINALS, not exactly the first round there bud.  Remember, gimpy ankle, game 4, goes to either 3-1 or 2-2, Shaq is fouled out, and at 21, you're saying the guy that couldn't do anything as the man for a decade, would have been just dandy in that situation at 21?  Thas what you're tellin me right here? 


Hey, could TMac have won with Shaq during a run together?  Absolutely possible.  But win right away, in 2000, in that situation?  Hell, would TMac have even made it back in Q4 vs Portland?  Would Mac have the stones to turn it up in that game?  After all the years of being able to watch him and see him fail every damn time, you guys just gon stick to this imaginary world where we can just plug and play guys and it ain't no big thing?  Well *@#%, I wanna play too then. 

I'ma just pull Pip, and I bet MJ STILL wins 6 for 6, hell I might even put Pip on the Sonics in 96 to play with Kemp and Payton, don't worry tho, MJ still woulda stopped that squad. 

Shooooooot, Celts weren't gonna win in 08 if we had Bynum and Ariza, hell no, we woulda swept those boys.  Just these little simple plug and plays make winnin a title so much easier, I tell ya. 

  

 

[franchise3]

To have a dominant player like Shaq, in a NBA landscape where the C spot was a wasteland, then yeah, any wing would do. Any wing as in the VC, Pierce and TMac. I'm not comparing these guys to Kobe, who we all know has more heart and ice water in his veins than these other guys, but one has to be real with themselves and relegate the fact that Shaq was so dominant, it really wouldn't have mattered who was playing the 2. Kobe has 5 rings, one of the best players in history, but a dominant big makes everything so much easier for him. It's no mistake he got 3 with Shaq, Wade 1 with Shaq, and Kobe 2 with Gasol. Is it coincidence that Gasol's game is falling off, and in turn, the Lakers aren't as formidable?

 

[pmatic]

I think it's unfair to say "Put ______ next to Shaq and they would win no matter what." So much goes into pairing two star players AND winning. But maybe that's just the Laker fan in me talking.

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by franchise3

To have a dominant player like Shaq, in a NBA landscape where the C spot was a wasteland, then yeah, any wing would do. Any wing as in the VC, Pierce and TMac. I'm not comparing these guys to Kobe, who we all know has more heart and ice water in his veins than these other guys, but one has to be real with themselves and relegate the fact that Shaq was so dominant, it really wouldn't have mattered who was playing the 2. Kobe has 5 rings, one of the best players in history, but a dominant big makes everything so much easier for him. It's no mistake he got 3 with Shaq, Wade 1 with Shaq, and Kobe 2 with Gasol. Is it coincidence that Gasol's game is falling off, and in turn, the Lakers aren't as formidable?

It doesn't work like that, though. You can't just take stats out of context and make hypotheticals without considering other factors. This is the exact type of reasoning/thinking that led some people to believe Miami was going to go 72-10 and sweep the playoffs last year. I hope you weren't among that group.
And is Gasol really a dominant big? He had 1 All-Star selection prior to playing with Kobe, and 3 after they teamed up. Dominant? 

 

[quik1987]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by quik1987

Originally Posted by CP1708

franchise3 wrote:

---

Even I can say Kobe is a great player. But, let's be real. Put any wings back in the day with the force that was Shaquille O'Neal, and the results would have been the same. To say otherwise, is being blinded by Kobe fanism.

So 21 year old VC, Pierce, and TMac were gonna take 4 straight shots in OT, on the road, in the finals, without Shaq, and make all 4? 

That was happening? 

Oh

  

TMac 2000-2001 playoffs (21)

33.8ppg, 6.5rpg, 8.3apg



but if you replaced Kobe with him he wouldn't have won with Shaq?



Right



The rest went to college

T-Mac didn't play 1 on 1 defense like Kobe and lost in 4 games to the Charlotte Hornets because no one would step up and stop Baron Davis.

And 2000-2001, was Lakers ring #2.  We could extend the conversation rings 1 and 3 and question where T-Mac was those years too.  His numbers as the second option to Vince were kinda average.  He woulda complimented Shaq better than Kobe did that year?


CP1708 said the age of 21

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by DT43

and Xta-whatever, it's crazy how you've been running around bashing Lebron haters, when literally everything you say in that instance can be applied to you and Kobe.

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Sucks to be a lowlife scum of the earth hater today. I don't know what I'm more happy about: LeBron winning or knowing that you lowlifes who have been rooting for the greatest player since Michael Jordan to fail out of nothing but pure HATE have pure SODIUM running through your veins right now.

so replace that with Kobe and i'm assuming that's how you felt... FIVE times. 

even if you don't do it online, i hope you at least admit to yourself that you're biased. 

Yeah, my fact-based arguments as to why LeBron is superior to Kobe are way more irrational than the methods of the Kobe homer/LeBron hater.

Ridiculing him for not winning a championship in Cleveland with that GARBAGE supporting cast, where the best player he's ever played with who is still in his prime is currently the fourth scoring option on a Clippers team that needed 7 games to get to the second round of the playoffs, where they got swept. And then having the nerve to post all the "differences" between the 2009-10 and 2010-11 Cavs after they went from the best record in the league to the second-worst record and had a record 26 losses in a row, knowing DAMN well that there was really only one difference between those two Cavs teams.

Dismissing any attempt of rational stat-based discussion by constantly repeating that it doesn't matter one bit because he doesn't have a ring, NOT GIVING A SINGLE DAMN about the circumstances as to why he doesn't have a ring - one being drafted into a franchise whose best accomplishment prior to his arrival was ONE conference finals in their 30+ years of existence, the other being drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth into the franchise with second most championships and having the luxury of playing with the most dominant player ever.

Generally focusing every part of the discussion on stuff that can't really be measured, but can sure be backed up by plenty of "This." comments by the vast legions of Kobe stans, classics such as "killer instinct", "hard work" and "prettier game". All this backed up by moderator muscle, who had me banned because I started a thread criticizing their precious Kobe. Not for posting links to download copyrighted material. Not for posting pornography or profanity. Not for being in flame wars against another poster. But for criticizing Kobe.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Bob Ryan often says that when you rank all time lists Centers should be separated because there impact on the game outweighs any other position.

I might be starting to agree with him, it's unfair to comparer any permiter player to KAJ, Wilt, Russel, Shaq, even Hakeem in their prime they have overwhelming impact on both offense and defense.

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by DT43

and Xta-whatever, it's crazy how you've been running around bashing Lebron haters, when literally everything you say in that instance can be applied to you and Kobe.

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Sucks to be a lowlife scum of the earth hater today. I don't know what I'm more happy about: LeBron winning or knowing that you lowlifes who have been rooting for the greatest player since Michael Jordan to fail out of nothing but pure HATE have pure SODIUM running through your veins right now.

so replace that with Kobe and i'm assuming that's how you felt... FIVE times. 

even if you don't do it online, i hope you at least admit to yourself that you're biased. 

Yeah, my fact-based arguments as to why LeBron is superior to Kobe are way more irrational than the methods of the Kobe homer/LeBron hater.

Ridiculing him for not winning a championship in Cleveland with that GARBAGE supporting cast, where the best player he's ever played with who is still in his prime is currently the fourth scoring option on a Clippers team that needed 7 games to get to the second round of the playoffs, where they got swept. And then having the nerve to post all the "differences" between the 2009-10 and 2010-11 Cavs after they went from the best record in the league to the second-worst record and had a record 26 losses in a row, knowing DAMN well that there was really only one difference between those two Cavs teams.

Dismissing any attempt of rational stat-based discussion by constantly repeating that it doesn't matter one bit because he doesn't have a ring, NOT GIVING A SINGLE DAMN about the circumstances as to why he doesn't have a ring - one being drafted into a franchise whose best accomplishment prior to his arrival was ONE conference finals in their 30+ years of existence, the other being drafted with a silver spoon in his mouth into the franchise with second most championships and having the luxury of playing with the most dominant player ever.

Generally focusing every part of the discussion on stuff that can't really be measured, but can sure be backed up by plenty of "This." comments by the vast legions of Kobe stans, classics such as "killer instinct", "hard work" and "prettier game". All this backed up by moderator muscle, who had me banned because I started a thread criticizing their precious Kobe. Not for posting links to download copyrighted material. Not for posting pornography or profanity. Not for being in flame wars against another poster. But for criticizing Kobe.

you really put a lot into that post, man

 

[franchise3]

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by franchise3

To have a dominant player like Shaq, in a NBA landscape where the C spot was a wasteland, then yeah, any wing would do. Any wing as in the VC, Pierce and TMac. I'm not comparing these guys to Kobe, who we all know has more heart and ice water in his veins than these other guys, but one has to be real with themselves and relegate the fact that Shaq was so dominant, it really wouldn't have mattered who was playing the 2. Kobe has 5 rings, one of the best players in history, but a dominant big makes everything so much easier for him. It's no mistake he got 3 with Shaq, Wade 1 with Shaq, and Kobe 2 with Gasol. Is it coincidence that Gasol's game is falling off, and in turn, the Lakers aren't as formidable?

It doesn't work like that, though. You can't just take stats out of context and make hypotheticals without considering other factors. This is the exact type of reasoning/thinking that led some people to believe Miami was going to go 72-10 and sweep the playoffs last year. I hope you weren't among that group.
And is Gasol really a dominant big? He had 1 All-Star selection prior to playing with Kobe, and 3 after they teamed up. Dominant? 

My main point is, having Shaq as your starting C during those years makes it easy for anybody and everybody, considering how dominant he was. He was the main cog. And Gasol was routinely touted as one of the most talented bigs in the game. How many big men were better than him when he came to the Lakers? You can count them on one hand. And I doubt you use all your fingers.

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by franchise3

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by franchise3

To have a dominant player like Shaq, in a NBA landscape where the C spot was a wasteland, then yeah, any wing would do. Any wing as in the VC, Pierce and TMac. I'm not comparing these guys to Kobe, who we all know has more heart and ice water in his veins than these other guys, but one has to be real with themselves and relegate the fact that Shaq was so dominant, it really wouldn't have mattered who was playing the 2. Kobe has 5 rings, one of the best players in history, but a dominant big makes everything so much easier for him. It's no mistake he got 3 with Shaq, Wade 1 with Shaq, and Kobe 2 with Gasol. Is it coincidence that Gasol's game is falling off, and in turn, the Lakers aren't as formidable?

It doesn't work like that, though. You can't just take stats out of context and make hypotheticals without considering other factors. This is the exact type of reasoning/thinking that led some people to believe Miami was going to go 72-10 and sweep the playoffs last year. I hope you weren't among that group.
And is Gasol really a dominant big? He had 1 All-Star selection prior to playing with Kobe, and 3 after they teamed up. Dominant? 

My main point is, having Shaq as your starting C during those years makes it easy for anybody and everybody, considering how dominant he was. He was the main cog. And Gasol was routinely touted as one of the most talented bigs in the game. How many big men were better than him when he came to the Lakers? You can count them on one hand. And I doubt you use all your fingers.

"..makes it easy for anybody and everybody" just like having Lebron, Bosh, and Wade would make it easy to go 72-10 and cruise to a championship, right?Again, it doesn't work like that.

I don't understand how you expect people to just disregard what Kobe did for those teams. There was nothing "easy" about it. Yep, 22 year old VC/Tmac/Paul Pierce would have done this against the Spurs in the playoffs

Look at the graphic from 0:41:

That is quite literally insane. If you just assume a 22-year old Tmac/VC/Pierce would have been able to emulate that performance (also consider the fact that he was the best perimeter defender in the league at that time), you were probably one of the "da Heats is going 72-10 durrr" clowns

As for bigs considered better than Gasol at the time? Uhh idk, how about all the big men who were being chosen for All-Star and All-NBA teams over Gasol? Shaq, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Dwight, Yao, Bosh,Jermaine O'Neal,Amare, Boozer, Elton Brand, David West, Jamison.. Gasol was only considered dominant in your head, bruh.

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by Nako XL

for argument's sake, we all know for a fact that Wade's first title was in large part the result of a referee fixing the games though... 16 FT's a game?  Take that element away and they don't win that series and we don't include Wade's name in this debate, we'd be talking about how HE didn't earn his first either.

Dirk shot 39% over the last 4 games

Terry shot 43% over the last 4 games

Howard shot 41% over the last 4 games

It's all on the refs though

 

[got shoes]

Thread went upside-down on the first page smh. Any thread that stutters the name Kobe is an automatic free pass to troll and take shots. Same people bringing up the same stats like people really care. Might as well save that $$%# for another board. Too comical

 

[kvsm23vs24]

This is stupid can't compare Kobe and Lebrons first championship win.
Kobe in his 4th year not in his prime compared to Bron third final in his prime at 9 years in the league.

 

[franchise3]

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by franchise3

Originally Posted by DT43

It doesn't work like that, though. You can't just take stats out of context and make hypotheticals without considering other factors. This is the exact type of reasoning/thinking that led some people to believe Miami was going to go 72-10 and sweep the playoffs last year. I hope you weren't among that group.
And is Gasol really a dominant big? He had 1 All-Star selection prior to playing with Kobe, and 3 after they teamed up. Dominant?�

My main point is, having Shaq as your starting C during those years makes it easy for anybody and everybody, considering how dominant he was. He was the main cog. And Gasol was routinely touted as one of the most talented bigs in the game. How many big men were better than him when he came to the Lakers? You can count them on one hand. And I doubt you use all your fingers.

"..makes it easy for anybody and everybody" just like having Lebron, Bosh, and Wade would make it easy to go 72-10 and cruise to a championship, right?�Again, it doesn't work like that.

I don't understand how you expect people to just disregard what Kobe did for those teams. There was nothing "easy" about it. Yep, 22 year old VC/Tmac/Paul Pierce would have done this against the Spurs in the playoffs

Look at the graphic from 0:41:

That is quite literally insane. If you just assume a 22-year old Tmac/VC/Pierce would have been able to emulate that performance (also consider the fact that he was the best perimeter defender in the league at that time), you were probably one of the "da Heats is going 72-10 durrr" clowns

As for bigs considered better than Gasol at the time? Uhh idk, how about all the big men who were being chosen for All-Star and All-NBA teams over Gasol? Shaq, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Dwight, Yao, Bosh,�Jermaine O'Neal,�Amare, Boozer, Elton Brand, David West, Jamison.. Gasol was only considered dominant in your head, bruh.�

Ok now answer my other question. How many rings has Kobe won without, I won't even use dominant, a premier big man? Again is it coincidence that Gasol turns into Gasoft recently and the Lakers don't make any noise in the playoffs?

 

[franchise3]

Kobe is a great player, I've said it. I didn't say he wasn't a key factor in his championship runs. I'm not saying he isnt a top 5 Laker. All I'm saying is, Kobe fanism is blinding a lot of you dudes. For as great as Kobe is, Shaq was a FORCE. Again, in an NBA Center less waste land. To say Kobe was important as Shaq, is over selling it, IMO. Shaq was top dog. At the end of the day, Lebron left to get help, while Kobe was fortunate to play alongside Shaq, had the best coach ever in Phil and fortunate enough that the front office got Gasol for peanuts (And didn't trade Bynum for Kidd, when every Lakers fan wanted Mitch to)