Mass Shooting Thread: Waiting on the next one.

Parents of Confessed School Shooter Sued Over Massacre
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Dimitrios PagourtzisGetty Images

https://nypost.com/2018/05/25/parents-of-confessed-school-shooter-sued-over-massacre/

The parents of confessed Texas school shooter Dimitrios Pagourtzis are being blamed for his deadly massacre — with at least one victim’s family filing a lawsuit this week, claiming the teen’s father didn’t secure his weapons properly.

Cops say Pagourtzis used a shotgun and pistol during his alleged shooting spree, which belonged to his dad and was reportedly kept in a closet.

In Texas, it’s illegal to keep guns out in the open or in easily accessible areas when children under 17 are around. There are exceptions, but only when the child is under parent supervision or hunting.

If a parent is caught disobeying the law and a weapon is fired, causing serious injury or death, they can be charged with a misdemeanor and face up to a year in jail.

The family of 17-year-old Chris Stone — who was killed during Pagourtzis’ rampage at Santa Fe High School, according to authorities — filed a lawsuit in Galveston County on Thursday, claiming that’s exactly what happened.

The move has been done in the past by the parents of shooting victims, with the most recent case coming after the Waffle House shooting in Nashville, Tennessee

Stone’s parents also allege in their suit that Pagourtzis’ mom and dad failed to warn the public about his “dangerous propensities” and didn’t get him proper mental health treatment.

Pagourtzis family attorney, Nicholas Poehl, told the Associated Press on Friday that he is only handling the criminal case against the teen — and declined comment on the civil suit.

He did not know if the parents were planning to hire another lawyer.
 

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The Latest: Rants About Demonic Possession Linked to Shooter
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Police officers stand at the scene of a shooting on the east side of Lake Hefner in Oklahoma City, Thursday, May 24, 2018. A man armed with a pistol walked into Louie’s On The Lake restaurant at the dinner hour and opened fire, wounding two customers, before being shot dead by a handgun-carrying civilian in the parking lot, police said. (Sarah Phipps/The Oklahoman via AP)

https://newsok.com/article/feed/2267006/the-latest-police-say-3-people-shot-at-oklahoma-restaurant

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — The Latest on a shooting at a restaurant in Oklahoma City (all times local):

5:45 p.m.

Police say a Facebook page in which a man claims his television is possessed by the devil belongs to the man suspected of opening fire at a lake-side restaurant in Oklahoma City.

Police spokeswoman Megan Morgan said Friday police believe the Facebook page is that of 28-year-old Alexander Tilghman, who was shot dead by two bystanders after Thursday night's shooting.

The page uses the same selfie profile photo as a YouTube channel where a man describes demons possessing his TV and being surrounded by computers. He calmly begs for help from "a real human," saying he's suicidal, lonely and "really losing it."

The director of the LGBT rights group Freedom Oklahoma, Troy Stevenson, says Tilghman also is the same man who distributed flyers across the city this year warning of demons taking over people's bodies.

Police say investigators are looking into the possibility that Tilghman suffered from a mental illness.

___


4:30 p.m.

Oklahoma City police say a man suspected of opening fire at a crowded lake-side restaurant before being shot dead by two bystanders was arrested once as a juvenile.

Police Capt. Bo Mathews said Friday that 28-year-old Alexander Tilghman had no other criminal record outside the 2003 arrest for domestic assault and battery.

A police report indicates Tilghman was 13 when he was arrested after he punched his mother several times in a dispute over a vacuum cleaner.

Mathews says Tilghman opened fire inside the Louie's On The Lake restaurant late Thursday. A woman and two girls were shot but survived. Police say they were in good condition Friday.

Tilghman was shot dead by two bystanders outside the restaurant.

___

1:30 p.m.

The man suspected of shooting three people inside an Oklahoma City restaurant before being fatally shot was licensed as an armed security guard.

Gerald Konkler with the Oklahoma Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training says 28-year-old Alexander Tilghman held an active license as an armed guard.

Konkler declined further comment, citing state privacy laws.

Oklahoma City police say Tilghman opened fire inside a local restaurant late Thursday, shooting and wounding a woman and two girls. He was later shot dead by two bystanders outside.

Police on Friday said the shooting appeared to be random but noted that Tilghman drove to the restaurant and wore protective gear for his ears and eyes. A police spokesman says it "looked like his mind was made up that he was going to discharge his firearm once he got there."


___

12:15 p.m.

Police say the man suspected of shooting three people inside an Oklahoma City restaurant had no criminal record or obvious connection to the victims or the restaurant.

Police say 28-year-old Alexander Tilghman opened fire inside Louie's On The Lake late Thursday, shooting and wounding a woman and two girls. Tilghman was later shot dead by two bystanders outside.

Oklahoma City Police Capt. Bo Mathews said during a news conference Friday that Tilghman's only interaction with local police was in 2003, during a domestic assault and battery when Tilghman was 13.

Mathews says the shooting appeared to be random, but noted that Tilghman drove to the restaurant and wore protective gear for his ears and eyes. Mathews says it "looked like his mind was made up that he was going to discharge his firearm once he got there."

___

10:15 a.m.

The National Rifle Association says it hopes a restaurant shooting in Oklahoma City in which the alleged shooter was shot dead by two armed citizens serves as a "wake-up call" for the state's Republican governor.

The NRA said in a tweet Friday that the shootings Thursday evening were an example of "how the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

The NRA has been critical of Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin for vetoing a so-called constitutional carry bill that would have allowed adults to carry firearms without a license or training.

The Oklahoma City Police Department says two armed citizens shot and killed the alleged gunman after he emerged from a restaurant where at least three people were injured by gunfire.

___

10 a.m.

Police say three people were shot and wounded at an Oklahoma City restaurant and another man was injured while fleeing before the gunman was fatally shot by two armed citizens.

Police released a statement Friday saying 28-year-old Alexander Tilghman opened fire inside Louie's On The Lake on Thursday evening. A possible motive hasn't been released.

Police say the three people wounded by gunfire are a 39-year-old woman and two juvenile girls. An unnamed man fell and broke his arm while fleeing. All four are reported in good condition.

Police say Tilghman was then shot dead outside the restaurant by two citizens: Juan Carlos Nazario and Bryan Wittle.

The Hal Smith Restaurant Group owns the restaurant. The company says in a statement that the restaurant will be closed Friday and counselors will be available to employees and customers as needed.

___


This item has been corrected to show that one of the citizens who shot the suspected gunman is named Juan Carlos Nazario, not Carlos Nazario.

___

12 a.m.

Police say a man armed with a pistol walked into an Oklahoma City restaurant at the dinner hour and opened fire, wounding two customers, before being shot dead by a handgun-carrying civilian in the parking lot.

The shooting happened around 6:30 p.m. Thursday at Louie's On The Lake, a restaurant on Lake Hefner.

Police Capt. Bo Matthews says a woman and a female juvenile were undergoing surgery for gunshot wounds but apparently "are going to survive." A man suffered a broken arm while trying to escape the shooting.

Authorities have not identified the injured patrons. Matthews says the dead suspect's identity also was not immediately known.

Matthews says police "have no reason to believe this is a terrorist type of incident." The motive was unclear otherwise.
 


Keep Praising Unarmed Good Guys Who Tackle Shooters
http://www.spockosbrain.com/
Friday’s school shooting was stopped by Jason Seaman, a former defensive end now a science teacher who ‘immediately ran up to the un-named student, swatted the boy’s cocked gun out of his hand before tackling the pupil to the ground.” He was shot three times in the abdomen, hip and forearm, he has been released from the hospital.

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Pictured Indiana, Noblesville West Middle School, science teacher and school football coach, Jason Seaman.

One day after the heroic tackling, Trump and Pence tweeted praise for Jason Seaman, in contrast to the two weeks it took them to praise James Shaw, the other hero who tackled a shooter armed with an AR-15 at a Waffle House.

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Hero James Shaw speaks during a press conference on the Waffle House shooting Sunday, April 22, 2018 in Nashville, Tenn. Shaw wrestled the gun from the suspect. (Wade Payne/The Tennessean via AP)

Unarmed people can stop shooters by tackling them.

We need to remind the media and the public of other examples and repeat the cases of unarmed people stopping the shooter and saving the day.

The reality is that there are many stories of shooters being stopped by people tackling them. But unarmed heroes tackling shooters doesn’t fit the narrative that the NRA, the slaughter lobby, Donald Trump, Republican politicians and the right wing media want. When a story doesn’t fit that narrative, they bring back a time it worked, even if multiple cases of it failing happened instead.

But showing unarmed people stopping a shooting isn’t enough. We also need to show the failure of the premise that someone with a gun is the only way to protect a school from someone else with a gun. The data showing the failure of SROs and armed security is overwhelming.

The Post analysis found that gun violence has occurred in at least 68 schools that employed a police officer or security guard. In all but a few of those incidents, the shootings ended before law enforcement of any kind interceded — often because the gunfire lasted only a few seconds.
Analysis of US School Shootings History Analysis, March 25, 2018 Washington Post

Two thirds of school shootings are called “targeted shootings.” The perpetrator knows who they want to shoot and the school’s security systems. They catch people unaware and shoot them. It’s over in seconds. More guns around the person won’t help protect them.

Remember this photo of Reagan two seconds before he was shot? Six well-trained men with guns around him and they still couldn’t react fast enough to save him. When they did react, it was to tackle the shooter. To survive this kind of situation the target needs to be wearing a bulletproof vest that can stop the bullets.


Reading that analysis of schools shootings, the failure of SROs to stop the shooters, and the recent stories of people tackling shooters, I had an idea about how to protect lives in schools without adding guns.

Give teachers bulletproof vests and teach them to tackle.
Bulletproof vests are safer than guns! If a teacher leaves his vest in a bathroom and a student picks it up, it’s not going to hurt them.
It’s a lot easier to find teachers with a background in tackle football than those with a background in shooting people in a crisis situation.

Bulletproof vests can be worn all the time. They can protect people from bullets, even if they are caught unaware.

Instead of giving teachers guns and teaching them to kill, give them bulletproof vests and teach them to tackle.

There is a reason I believe we need to keep talking about and praising cases of unarmed people tackling shooters. I’ve listened to men who want more people with guns in schools. They imagine themselves in an active shooter scenario. They want to act. They want to have control. If they aren’t there and in control, they want to give that sense of control to others. Pointing out that tackling is already a successful method to stop bad guys with guns can relieve some of their feelings of helplessness during a school shooting.

People need to see an active response that doesn’t involve guns that has succeeded in the past. They can see themselves as a hero in the future by tackling the bad guy. The NRA is heavily invested in the premise that guns are the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun. That’s because is sells more guns. Imagine if the National Body Armor Association was as powerful as the NRA, everyone wearing bulletproof vests would be a solution.

Even when tackling works, I still hear the calls for more people with guns in schools. Adding more guns is an expensive, dangerous, ineffective response to school shootings. Keep showing all the problems with adding guns in schools.

  • Point out the undeniable physics of human reaction time vs. bullet speed.
  • Detail the historical failures of SROs and armed security in school shootings
  • Tell the stories of unarmed people successfully stopping shootings
  • Describe the additional problems adding SROs and armed security brings to schools, like civil right violations
  • Show people the stories of gun accidents and the financial liability they represent to the school district
  • Calculate the total costs of this service that has proven ineffectively for the task they were hired to accomplish.
When confronted with the failure of “good guys with a guns” during school shootings, I’ve seen trained spokespeople stumble. They give ridiculous answers,”We need fewer doors!” They jump to whataboutism. “What about teen texting?! What about abortion?” When the facts are against them they start arguing about unrelated statistics and definitions of weapons. “Show me one member of the NRA who was involved in a shooting! If you don’t know AR-15 stands for ArmaLite rifle and not assault rifle, then I’m not listening to you!”

Even in the face of failure after failure of guns in schools, the premise and the narrative will continue to be pushed. The NRA supporters will tweet, talk and remind people of any instances that fits their premise. Their believers will share those stories on Facebook and forward them in emails. Narratives for either side are established by repetition and distribution though multiple sources that the group knows and trusts. That’s what we need to do. Repeat the tackling stories based on real-life successes and point out the real life failures of guns in schools.

Instead of giving teachers guns and teaching them to kill, give them a bulletproof vests and teach them to tackle.
 
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'NRA Finals?' Unfortunate logo placement has fans questioning Warriors' NBA Finals hats

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https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/NBA-Finals-2018-NRA-Finals-hat-New-Era-Twitter-12949801.php

Hoops fans watching the conclusions of the NBA Eastern and Western Conference Finals over the weekend said they noticed an unfortunate coincidence.

LeBron James, Stephen Curry and Kevin Durant were all wearing the New Era-designed NBA Finals hats, but the logos of the Golden State Warriors and the Cleveland Cavaliers obscure part of the letters NBA. The result: It looks like the hat is advertising the "2018 NRA Finals."

Keen viewers pointed out that the hat looked like an endorsement for the National Rifle Association.

"Somebody at the @NBA really dropped the ball with these hats," said Twitter user @Oh_TheHorror. "Does anyone else see 2018 NRA Finals? Decrease the font, and make sure it clearly says NBA, guys."

Several other Twitter users who were watching the Conference Finals noticed the unfortunate design on the Finals hats. @UnfollowAlbert just didn't like the design and said, "Those Finals hats are ugly as the Warriors' play the series."

"The hats look like they say, '2018 NRA Finals,'" replied @Ayejayrod.

Writer Juan Vidal tweeted a photo of Draymond Green wearing the hat during the Warriors' press conference following their victory over the Houston Rockets. "New Era butchered these 2018 NRA Finals hats," he wrote.

The design of the hat is even more unfortunate because several prominent NBA players and coaches have spoken out against the NRA or spoken in favor of gun control. For example, Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr criticized the National Rifle Association in February.

"We can vote people in who actually have the courage to protect people's lives and not just bow down to the NRA because they've financed their campaign for them," Kerr said following the news of a shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., in which 17 people were killed.
 
The logo looks like it's just a patch or something.

So whoever won would get their logo stuck on. Just me?
 
Porn Leads To School Shootings, GOP Congresswoman Says

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Does anyone know what kind of porn Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.) is watching?

Whatever it is, the 67-year-old Black, who is running for governor of Tennessee, said it’s a “big part” of what is driving the spike in school shootings.

During a meeting last week with local pastors, Black raised the issue of gun violence in schools and why it keeps happening.

“Pornography,” she said.

“It’s available on the shelf when you walk in the grocery store. Yeah, you have to reach up to get it, but there’s pornography there,” she continued. “All of this is available without parental guidance. I think that is a big part of the root cause.”



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"It's available on the shelf when you walk in the grocery store"
Ain't nobody going to the damn grocery store to get hooked on porn :smh::rofl:
Much less wanting to shoot up schools over porn
 
Porn Leads To School Shootings, GOP Congresswoman Says

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Does anyone know what kind of porn Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.) is watching?

Whatever it is, the 67-year-old Black, who is running for governor of Tennessee, said it’s a “big part” of what is driving the spike in school shootings.

During a meeting last week with local pastors, Black raised the issue of gun violence in schools and why it keeps happening.

“Pornography,” she said.

“It’s available on the shelf when you walk in the grocery store. Yeah, you have to reach up to get it, but there’s pornography there,” she continued. “All of this is available without parental guidance. I think that is a big part of the root cause.”



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WTF!?!?!?!?!?



Dumbass *****
 
Yeah, this gun issue sounds really similar to the gay marriage debate of 10+ years ago. Maybe not next election, but 2 elections from now there will be change on this gun debate. Too many rational, logical youth, with no NRA infestation in their brains.
 
Yeah, this gun issue sounds really similar to the gay marriage debate of 10+ years ago. Maybe not next election, but 2 elections from now there will be change on this gun debate. Too many rational, logical youth, with no NRA infestation in their brains, YET.
 
Yeah, this gun issue sounds really similar to the gay marriage debate of 10+ years ago. Maybe not next election, but 2 elections from now there will be change on this gun debate. Too many rational, logical youth, with no NRA infestation in their brains.

The NRA is growing stronger by the day in members and donations.

Not to go Ninja but you live in a bubble if you can't see that.

The old guard of the NRA are actually the ones on board with possible gun control. The young guard aren't.
 
The NRA is growing stronger by the day in members and donations.

Not to go Ninja but you live in a bubble if you can't see that.

The old guard of the NRA are actually the ones on board with possible gun control. The young guard aren't.
Interesting, considering the NRA doesn't even publish their donation and member #s.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-clues/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8a7a4595cefb

Also, this doesn't take into account that NRA members while powerful, are small in comparison to non- NRA members, which obviously would be where any legislative change would come from.
 
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