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Utopia doesn't exist.. Never has never will..
Never ONCE was America a successful FREE MARKET CAPITALISM system, as you guys describe it.
Moore's Capitalism: A Love Story....
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by 38816,
- Start date
Utopia doesn't exist.. Never has never will..
Never ONCE was America a successful FREE MARKET CAPITALISM system, as you guys describe it.
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Reread the thread. I'll wait.
I never once described the US in those terms.
Fact remains: there is no other system that can elevate people out of grinding poverty.
But if you are displeased with the capitalist system, or what's left of it after the last 3 decades, why not move to a more "socialist" or "collectivist" society. Hell, why not move to the EU - that paragon of liberal virtue. If that is still not to your liking, why not move to Cuba, the DPRK, or any of the festering $hit pits in Sub Saharan Africa?
Only in a Capitalist society can a high school flunky like Mr. Moore go on to become a millionaire several times over by peddling his brand of slanderous drivel.
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Reread the thread. I'll wait.
I never once described the US in those terms.
Fact remains: there is no other system that can elevate people out of grinding poverty.
But if you are displeased with the capitalist system, or what's left of it after the last 3 decades, why not move to a more "socialist" or "collectivist" society. Hell, why not move to the EU - that paragon of liberal virtue. If that is still not to your liking, why not move to Cuba, the DPRK, or any of the festering $hit pits in Sub Saharan Africa?
Only in a Capitalist society can a high school flunky like Mr. Moore go on to become a millionaire several times over by peddling his brand of slanderous drivel.
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And in a Capitalist state where millions go without health care and live below poverty....
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And in a Capitalist state where millions go without health care and live below poverty....
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State, you're just regurgitating +#%%*++#. It's easy to spot.
What is this grinding poverty. Is it worse or better (and to what extent) then just regular old poverty.
The EU isn't anymore socialist than the US. They just allocate their socialism differently. I have to preface by saying that Europe isn't a monolithic entity so it depends on each state. If I could live in Switzerland or Germany (among a few others) I would in a heartbeat. I have certain obligations for the time being in the US though.
The US has devolved into a Kleptocracy and it's folks like yourself who, instead of choosing to fix what needs fixing, will go down screaming "USA! USA! USA!". I love the US just as much as the next American but I can see it's faults and where it all leads too. Maybe it's because my family lived in another corrupt state so the same corruption is more evident.
This isn't even the same US into which my parents immigrated to in 1989... and that's a fact.
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State, you're just regurgitating +#%%*++#. It's easy to spot.
What is this grinding poverty. Is it worse or better (and to what extent) then just regular old poverty.
The EU isn't anymore socialist than the US. They just allocate their socialism differently. I have to preface by saying that Europe isn't a monolithic entity so it depends on each state. If I could live in Switzerland or Germany (among a few others) I would in a heartbeat. I have certain obligations for the time being in the US though.
The US has devolved into a Kleptocracy and it's folks like yourself who, instead of choosing to fix what needs fixing, will go down screaming "USA! USA! USA!". I love the US just as much as the next American but I can see it's faults and where it all leads too. Maybe it's because my family lived in another corrupt state so the same corruption is more evident.
This isn't even the same US into which my parents immigrated to in 1989... and that's a fact.
rocky437
Banned
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If Capitalism is so bad, then move to Cuba. Lets see which system you prefer.
Also, a lot of those working in sweatshops are not complaining. They are happy they have A job and are actually making money. Its some of the people here in North America that @!%*@ about it.
Essential1, I take it that you most likely support Gross National Happiness? Bhutan's system? Which does not use GDP/money to measure growth, happiness, and development. Would you want to live in a system like that?
Another thought: Professional Sports is actually the best example of Capitalism. Capitalism is basically survival of the fittest. That's essentially what it is. In MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, PGA etc.. the best players stay in the league, and the better you are, the more money you make. If they suck, they get put in a lower league, or in some cases, i.e: Adam Morrison, couldnt make it in the pros, and nobody knows what that guy is doing now.
Also, a lot of those working in sweatshops are not complaining. They are happy they have A job and are actually making money. Its some of the people here in North America that @!%*@ about it.
Essential1, I take it that you most likely support Gross National Happiness? Bhutan's system? Which does not use GDP/money to measure growth, happiness, and development. Would you want to live in a system like that?
Another thought: Professional Sports is actually the best example of Capitalism. Capitalism is basically survival of the fittest. That's essentially what it is. In MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, PGA etc.. the best players stay in the league, and the better you are, the more money you make. If they suck, they get put in a lower league, or in some cases, i.e: Adam Morrison, couldnt make it in the pros, and nobody knows what that guy is doing now.
rocky437
Banned
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If Capitalism is so bad, then move to Cuba. Lets see which system you prefer.
Also, a lot of those working in sweatshops are not complaining. They are happy they have A job and are actually making money. Its some of the people here in North America that @!%*@ about it.
Essential1, I take it that you most likely support Gross National Happiness? Bhutan's system? Which does not use GDP/money to measure growth, happiness, and development. Would you want to live in a system like that?
Another thought: Professional Sports is actually the best example of Capitalism. Capitalism is basically survival of the fittest. That's essentially what it is. In MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, PGA etc.. the best players stay in the league, and the better you are, the more money you make. If they suck, they get put in a lower league, or in some cases, i.e: Adam Morrison, couldnt make it in the pros, and nobody knows what that guy is doing now.
Also, a lot of those working in sweatshops are not complaining. They are happy they have A job and are actually making money. Its some of the people here in North America that @!%*@ about it.
Essential1, I take it that you most likely support Gross National Happiness? Bhutan's system? Which does not use GDP/money to measure growth, happiness, and development. Would you want to live in a system like that?
Another thought: Professional Sports is actually the best example of Capitalism. Capitalism is basically survival of the fittest. That's essentially what it is. In MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, PGA etc.. the best players stay in the league, and the better you are, the more money you make. If they suck, they get put in a lower league, or in some cases, i.e: Adam Morrison, couldnt make it in the pros, and nobody knows what that guy is doing now.
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Why so angry wawa?
Your rage permeates your posts and your copypasta blog (is that thing still up)?
In any case:
Germany, more than any other European country, ex Poland, adheres to free market tenets.
Switzerland isn't even a part of the EU.
Your rage permeates your posts and your copypasta blog (is that thing still up)?
In any case:
Germany, more than any other European country, ex Poland, adheres to free market tenets.
Switzerland isn't even a part of the EU.
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Why so angry wawa?
Your rage permeates your posts and your copypasta blog (is that thing still up)?
In any case:
Germany, more than any other European country, ex Poland, adheres to free market tenets.
Switzerland isn't even a part of the EU.
Your rage permeates your posts and your copypasta blog (is that thing still up)?
In any case:
Germany, more than any other European country, ex Poland, adheres to free market tenets.
Switzerland isn't even a part of the EU.
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State, you're just regurgitating +#%%*++#. It's easy to spot.
What is this grinding poverty. Is it worse or better (and to what extent) then just regular old poverty.
The EU isn't anymore socialist than the US. They just allocate their socialism differently. I have to preface by saying that Europe isn't a monolithic entity so it depends on each state. If I could live in Switzerland or Germany (among a few others) I would in a heartbeat. I have certain obligations for the time being in the US though.
The US has devolved into a Kleptocracy and it's folks like yourself who, instead of choosing to fix what needs fixing, will go down screaming "USA! USA! USA!". I love the US just as much as the next American but I can see it's faults and where it all leads too. Maybe it's because my family lived in another corrupt state so the same corruption is more evident.
This isn't even the same US into which my parents immigrated to in 1989... and that's a fact.
Is this bipartisanship I see? Could it be?
- 36,575
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- Aug 2, 2008
State, you're just regurgitating +#%%*++#. It's easy to spot.
What is this grinding poverty. Is it worse or better (and to what extent) then just regular old poverty.
The EU isn't anymore socialist than the US. They just allocate their socialism differently. I have to preface by saying that Europe isn't a monolithic entity so it depends on each state. If I could live in Switzerland or Germany (among a few others) I would in a heartbeat. I have certain obligations for the time being in the US though.
The US has devolved into a Kleptocracy and it's folks like yourself who, instead of choosing to fix what needs fixing, will go down screaming "USA! USA! USA!". I love the US just as much as the next American but I can see it's faults and where it all leads too. Maybe it's because my family lived in another corrupt state so the same corruption is more evident.
This isn't even the same US into which my parents immigrated to in 1989... and that's a fact.
Is this bipartisanship I see? Could it be?
- 5,485
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- Jul 24, 2007
Why angry? What's wrong with being angry?
If you're not angry about what's going on then you're either, a) ignorant, b) don't really give a *%%+ about the society you participate in (or your future children will participate in) , or c) have very weak analytical skills.
Many Jews didn't think Hitler was that big of threat until their door was kicked down and they were on their way to "Work Will Set You Free" camps. Many Greeks didn't think that corruption and general indifference among the populace was that big a deal until they were overrun by stronger forces. The Brits didn't think that their overstretched Empire was that bad until they needed the US to save their *$+ in WW2 and in the subsequent post wars decades. They're still a $$*!*% society fwiw.
To be honest, I think this country in its current state is $@$##% (for a variety of reasons). Imo, we're too deep down the hole to get climb out barring what would amount to a political revolution. Just have to have a timed exit plan. That's all.
btw, Yes, Switzerland isn't in the EU but I meant Western Europe in general. Germany is the most Capitalist yet it has plenty of socialist programs. Just look at "Kurzarbeit" among a few others. Looks pretty damn socialist to me. They've found a balance. The US used to have it too. Or at least tried to work toward a more perfect one.
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Why angry? What's wrong with being angry?
If you're not angry about what's going on then you're either, a) ignorant, b) don't really give a *%%+ about the society you participate in (or your future children will participate in) , or c) have very weak analytical skills.
Many Jews didn't think Hitler was that big of threat until their door was kicked down and they were on their way to "Work Will Set You Free" camps. Many Greeks didn't think that corruption and general indifference among the populace was that big a deal until they were overrun by stronger forces. The Brits didn't think that their overstretched Empire was that bad until they needed the US to save their *$+ in WW2 and in the subsequent post wars decades. They're still a $$*!*% society fwiw.
To be honest, I think this country in its current state is $@$##% (for a variety of reasons). Imo, we're too deep down the hole to get climb out barring what would amount to a political revolution. Just have to have a timed exit plan. That's all.
btw, Yes, Switzerland isn't in the EU but I meant Western Europe in general. Germany is the most Capitalist yet it has plenty of socialist programs. Just look at "Kurzarbeit" among a few others. Looks pretty damn socialist to me. They've found a balance. The US used to have it too. Or at least tried to work toward a more perfect one.
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Originally Posted by Essential1
State, you're just regurgitating +#%%*++#. It's easy to spot.
What is this grinding poverty. Is it worse or better (and to what extent) then just regular old poverty.
The EU isn't anymore socialist than the US. They just allocate their socialism differently. I have to preface by saying that Europe isn't a monolithic entity so it depends on each state. If I could live in Switzerland or Germany (among a few others) I would in a heartbeat. I have certain obligations for the time being in the US though.
The US has devolved into a Kleptocracy and it's folks like yourself who, instead of choosing to fix what needs fixing, will go down screaming "USA! USA! USA!". I love the US just as much as the next American but I can see it's faults and where it all leads too. Maybe it's because my family lived in another corrupt state so the same corruption is more evident.
This isn't even the same US into which my parents immigrated to in 1989... and that's a fact.
Is this bipartisanship I see? Could it be?
We both see something is very, very wrong with the current state of affairs.
When it comes to true causes and solutions, we're prob at opposite ends.
Even taking that into account, I rather live in Essential1's America then a Kleptocratic banana republic full of apathetic consumer *!!%!$.
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Originally Posted by Essential1
State, you're just regurgitating +#%%*++#. It's easy to spot.
What is this grinding poverty. Is it worse or better (and to what extent) then just regular old poverty.
The EU isn't anymore socialist than the US. They just allocate their socialism differently. I have to preface by saying that Europe isn't a monolithic entity so it depends on each state. If I could live in Switzerland or Germany (among a few others) I would in a heartbeat. I have certain obligations for the time being in the US though.
The US has devolved into a Kleptocracy and it's folks like yourself who, instead of choosing to fix what needs fixing, will go down screaming "USA! USA! USA!". I love the US just as much as the next American but I can see it's faults and where it all leads too. Maybe it's because my family lived in another corrupt state so the same corruption is more evident.
This isn't even the same US into which my parents immigrated to in 1989... and that's a fact.
Is this bipartisanship I see? Could it be?
We both see something is very, very wrong with the current state of affairs.
When it comes to true causes and solutions, we're prob at opposite ends.
Even taking that into account, I rather live in Essential1's America then a Kleptocratic banana republic full of apathetic consumer *!!%!$.
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And do you think unregulated capitalism does not lead to sweat shop conditions??
The History of the Industrial Revolution needs to talk with you...
Also really those working in sweat shops don't complain? I hope you were highly sarcastic
And with sports and Capitalism... I'd like you to take a look at the financing of the Florida Marlins new stadium
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And do you think unregulated capitalism does not lead to sweat shop conditions??
The History of the Industrial Revolution needs to talk with you...
Also really those working in sweat shops don't complain? I hope you were highly sarcastic
And with sports and Capitalism... I'd like you to take a look at the financing of the Florida Marlins new stadium
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Yes that must be it . . . I must be an ignorant sociopath who is incapable of analysis.Originally Posted by wawaweewa
Why angry? What's wrong with being angry?
If you're not angry about what's going on then you're either, a) ignorant, b) don't really give a !**# about the society you participate in (or your future children will participate in) , or c) have very weak analytical skills.
Many Jews didn't think Hitler was that big of threat until their door was kicked down and they were on their way to "Work Will Set You Free" camps. Many Greeks didn't think that corruption and general indifference among the populace was that big a deal until they were overrun by stronger forces. The Brits didn't think that their overstretched Empire was that bad until they needed the US to save their $!! in WW2 and in the subsequent post wars decades. They're still a %*!+%! society fwiw.
To be honest, I think this country in its current state is *@%@$% (for a variety of reasons). Imo, we're too deep down the hole to get climb out barring what would amount to a political revolution. Just have to have a timed exit plan. That's all.
I never defended the status quo, that is something you've arbitrarily attributed to me.
I defended capitalism as a system.
You made the assumption that the status quo represents capitalism, and that I am defending the status quo.
In any case, why should I be angry about anything?
Plato wrote that states progress from tyranny to oligarchy to democracy, to chaos, then dictatorship. That's how it's always been, and the US is undergoing this metamorphosis. Some choose to e- rage, call for revolution, and launch ad hominem attacks against those who abstain from getting caught up in the populist fury. Others choose to make the most of the situation.
But the fact remains: Capitalism, despite all of its shortcomings, is the best system for improving the lot of the common (wo)man.
Q.E.D.
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Yes that must be it . . . I must be an ignorant sociopath who is incapable of analysis.Originally Posted by wawaweewa
Why angry? What's wrong with being angry?
If you're not angry about what's going on then you're either, a) ignorant, b) don't really give a !**# about the society you participate in (or your future children will participate in) , or c) have very weak analytical skills.
Many Jews didn't think Hitler was that big of threat until their door was kicked down and they were on their way to "Work Will Set You Free" camps. Many Greeks didn't think that corruption and general indifference among the populace was that big a deal until they were overrun by stronger forces. The Brits didn't think that their overstretched Empire was that bad until they needed the US to save their $!! in WW2 and in the subsequent post wars decades. They're still a %*!+%! society fwiw.
To be honest, I think this country in its current state is *@%@$% (for a variety of reasons). Imo, we're too deep down the hole to get climb out barring what would amount to a political revolution. Just have to have a timed exit plan. That's all.
I never defended the status quo, that is something you've arbitrarily attributed to me.
I defended capitalism as a system.
You made the assumption that the status quo represents capitalism, and that I am defending the status quo.
In any case, why should I be angry about anything?
Plato wrote that states progress from tyranny to oligarchy to democracy, to chaos, then dictatorship. That's how it's always been, and the US is undergoing this metamorphosis. Some choose to e- rage, call for revolution, and launch ad hominem attacks against those who abstain from getting caught up in the populist fury. Others choose to make the most of the situation.
But the fact remains: Capitalism, despite all of its shortcomings, is the best system for improving the lot of the common (wo)man.
Q.E.D.
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Originally Posted by wawaweewa
Originally Posted by Essential1
State, you're just regurgitating +#%%*++#. It's easy to spot.
What is this grinding poverty. Is it worse or better (and to what extent) then just regular old poverty.
The EU isn't anymore socialist than the US. They just allocate their socialism differently. I have to preface by saying that Europe isn't a monolithic entity so it depends on each state. If I could live in Switzerland or Germany (among a few others) I would in a heartbeat. I have certain obligations for the time being in the US though.
The US has devolved into a Kleptocracy and it's folks like yourself who, instead of choosing to fix what needs fixing, will go down screaming "USA! USA! USA!". I love the US just as much as the next American but I can see it's faults and where it all leads too. Maybe it's because my family lived in another corrupt state so the same corruption is more evident.
This isn't even the same US into which my parents immigrated to in 1989... and that's a fact.
Is this bipartisanship I see? Could it be?
to us for having agreements.. Kind of..
We both see something is very, very wrong with the current state of affairs.
When it comes to true causes and solutions, we're prob at opposite ends.
Even taking that into account, I rather live in Essential1's America then a Kleptocratic banana republic full of apathetic consumer *!!%!$.
We always have residency requests
I think we probably do agree on more than you think... And we probably have certain agreements on solutions..
But I don't doubt there would be large disagreements
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Originally Posted by wawaweewa
Originally Posted by Essential1
State, you're just regurgitating +#%%*++#. It's easy to spot.
What is this grinding poverty. Is it worse or better (and to what extent) then just regular old poverty.
The EU isn't anymore socialist than the US. They just allocate their socialism differently. I have to preface by saying that Europe isn't a monolithic entity so it depends on each state. If I could live in Switzerland or Germany (among a few others) I would in a heartbeat. I have certain obligations for the time being in the US though.
The US has devolved into a Kleptocracy and it's folks like yourself who, instead of choosing to fix what needs fixing, will go down screaming "USA! USA! USA!". I love the US just as much as the next American but I can see it's faults and where it all leads too. Maybe it's because my family lived in another corrupt state so the same corruption is more evident.
This isn't even the same US into which my parents immigrated to in 1989... and that's a fact.
Is this bipartisanship I see? Could it be?
to us for having agreements.. Kind of..
We both see something is very, very wrong with the current state of affairs.
When it comes to true causes and solutions, we're prob at opposite ends.
Even taking that into account, I rather live in Essential1's America then a Kleptocratic banana republic full of apathetic consumer *!!%!$.
We always have residency requests
I think we probably do agree on more than you think... And we probably have certain agreements on solutions..
But I don't doubt there would be large disagreements
- 5,485
- 14
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
Yes that must be it . . . I must be an ignorant sociopath who is incapable of analysis.Originally Posted by stateofsingularity
Why angry? What's wrong with being angry?
If you're not angry about what's going on then you're either, a) ignorant, b) don't really give a !**# about the society you participate in (or your future children will participate in) , or c) have very weak analytical skills.
Many Jews didn't think Hitler was that big of threat until their door was kicked down and they were on their way to "Work Will Set You Free" camps. Many Greeks didn't think that corruption and general indifference among the populace was that big a deal until they were overrun by stronger forces. The Brits didn't think that their overstretched Empire was that bad until they needed the US to save their $!! in WW2 and in the subsequent post wars decades. They're still a %*!+%! society fwiw.
To be honest, I think this country in its current state is *@%@$% (for a variety of reasons). Imo, we're too deep down the hole to get climb out barring what would amount to a political revolution. Just have to have a timed exit plan. That's all.
I never defended the status quo, that is something you've arbitrarily attributed to me.
I defended capitalism as a system.
You made the assumption that the status quo represents capitalism, and that I am defending the status quo.
In any case, why should I be angry about anything?
Plato wrote that states progress from tyranny to oligarchy to democracy, to chaos, then dictatorship. That's how it's always been, and the US is undergoing this metamorphosis. Some choose to e- rage, call for revolution, and launch ad hominem attacks against those who abstain from getting caught up in the populist fury. Others choose to make the most of the situation.
But the fact remains: Capitalism, despite all of its shortcomings, is the best system for improving the lot of the common (wo)man.
Q.E.D.
When you say "Capitalism", you do realize that it doesn't mean anything without tons of qualifications, right?
I work in finance in nyc and I can tell you there are as many versions of Capitalism as there are Capitalists.
Simply proclaiming "Capitalism is the best", doesn't mean anything.
I'm making the most of it as well. That's why I mentioned having a well timed exit plan is the end goal now.
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- Jul 24, 2007
Yes that must be it . . . I must be an ignorant sociopath who is incapable of analysis.Originally Posted by stateofsingularity
Why angry? What's wrong with being angry?
If you're not angry about what's going on then you're either, a) ignorant, b) don't really give a !**# about the society you participate in (or your future children will participate in) , or c) have very weak analytical skills.
Many Jews didn't think Hitler was that big of threat until their door was kicked down and they were on their way to "Work Will Set You Free" camps. Many Greeks didn't think that corruption and general indifference among the populace was that big a deal until they were overrun by stronger forces. The Brits didn't think that their overstretched Empire was that bad until they needed the US to save their $!! in WW2 and in the subsequent post wars decades. They're still a %*!+%! society fwiw.
To be honest, I think this country in its current state is *@%@$% (for a variety of reasons). Imo, we're too deep down the hole to get climb out barring what would amount to a political revolution. Just have to have a timed exit plan. That's all.
I never defended the status quo, that is something you've arbitrarily attributed to me.
I defended capitalism as a system.
You made the assumption that the status quo represents capitalism, and that I am defending the status quo.
In any case, why should I be angry about anything?
Plato wrote that states progress from tyranny to oligarchy to democracy, to chaos, then dictatorship. That's how it's always been, and the US is undergoing this metamorphosis. Some choose to e- rage, call for revolution, and launch ad hominem attacks against those who abstain from getting caught up in the populist fury. Others choose to make the most of the situation.
But the fact remains: Capitalism, despite all of its shortcomings, is the best system for improving the lot of the common (wo)man.
Q.E.D.
When you say "Capitalism", you do realize that it doesn't mean anything without tons of qualifications, right?
I work in finance in nyc and I can tell you there are as many versions of Capitalism as there are Capitalists.
Simply proclaiming "Capitalism is the best", doesn't mean anything.
I'm making the most of it as well. That's why I mentioned having a well timed exit plan is the end goal now.