Much Props to Michael Irvin for standing up for marriage equality

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

Originally Posted by cguy610

RealRubirosa

---

what are your thoughts on this?

what really separates gay marriage from civil rights is that technically, gays can get married, it just has to be someone of the opposite sex. If the laws said that gays could not marry anybody, no matter what, it would be a civil rights issue.

This either cannot exist (theoretically, if they were to marry somebody of the opposite sex then they would not be, by definition, gay) or it is trying to establish a "separate but equal" type of scenario. Pretty much forcing them to convert just so they can get a marriage license and, in doing so, completely destroying whatever traditional societal ties that marriage is supposed to have (like being with the person you truly love and all that stuff).
But, in all actuality, that whole phrase you quoted is just a twist of words that is trying to catch logical fallacies and confuse people by using terms that are, in most casual conversational uses, interchangeable. That is, I would like to imagine that, while discussing within the confines of this thread, "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage" could be understood to mean the same thing.

Yes, however, technically a gay man can marry a gay woman.  While it does not make much logical sense, the fact that it is legal and the law will recognize the union is why this is not really a civil rights issue.  It is more of an issue with how government defines marriage.

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

Originally Posted by cguy610

RealRubirosa

---

what are your thoughts on this?

what really separates gay marriage from civil rights is that technically, gays can get married, it just has to be someone of the opposite sex. If the laws said that gays could not marry anybody, no matter what, it would be a civil rights issue.

This either cannot exist (theoretically, if they were to marry somebody of the opposite sex then they would not be, by definition, gay) or it is trying to establish a "separate but equal" type of scenario. Pretty much forcing them to convert just so they can get a marriage license and, in doing so, completely destroying whatever traditional societal ties that marriage is supposed to have (like being with the person you truly love and all that stuff).
But, in all actuality, that whole phrase you quoted is just a twist of words that is trying to catch logical fallacies and confuse people by using terms that are, in most casual conversational uses, interchangeable. That is, I would like to imagine that, while discussing within the confines of this thread, "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage" could be understood to mean the same thing.

Yes, however, technically a gay man can marry a gay woman.  While it does not make much logical sense, the fact that it is legal and the law will recognize the union is why this is not really a civil rights issue.  It is more of an issue with how government defines marriage.

 

[realrubirosa]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

Originally Posted by cguy610


what are your thoughts on this?

This either cannot exist (theoretically, if they were to marry somebody of the opposite sex then they would not be, by definition, gay) or it is trying to establish a "separate but equal" type of scenario. Pretty much forcing them to convert just so they can get a marriage license and, in doing so, completely destroying whatever traditional societal ties that marriage is supposed to have (like being with the person you truly love and all that stuff).
But, in all actuality, that whole phrase you quoted is just a twist of words that is trying to catch logical fallacies and confuse people by using terms that are, in most casual conversational uses, interchangeable. That is, I would like to imagine that, while discussing within the confines of this thread, "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage" could be understood to mean the same thing.

Yes, however, technically a gay man can marry a gay woman.  While it does not make much logical sense, the fact that it is legal and the law will recognize the union is why this is not really a civil rights issue.  It is more of an issue with how government defines marriage.

Clever, but serves more as a joke or extremely literal way of bending the terms to belittle the issue. Have to keep in mind that "government definition" is all that gave blacks those civil rights, too. If the government never changed the definition of a black American, they'd still only count for only three-fifths of a vote, no? The parallels between the two, in my opinion, are much stronger than people initially consider.

 

[realrubirosa]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

Originally Posted by cguy610


what are your thoughts on this?

This either cannot exist (theoretically, if they were to marry somebody of the opposite sex then they would not be, by definition, gay) or it is trying to establish a "separate but equal" type of scenario. Pretty much forcing them to convert just so they can get a marriage license and, in doing so, completely destroying whatever traditional societal ties that marriage is supposed to have (like being with the person you truly love and all that stuff).
But, in all actuality, that whole phrase you quoted is just a twist of words that is trying to catch logical fallacies and confuse people by using terms that are, in most casual conversational uses, interchangeable. That is, I would like to imagine that, while discussing within the confines of this thread, "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage" could be understood to mean the same thing.

Yes, however, technically a gay man can marry a gay woman.  While it does not make much logical sense, the fact that it is legal and the law will recognize the union is why this is not really a civil rights issue.  It is more of an issue with how government defines marriage.

Clever, but serves more as a joke or extremely literal way of bending the terms to belittle the issue. Have to keep in mind that "government definition" is all that gave blacks those civil rights, too. If the government never changed the definition of a black American, they'd still only count for only three-fifths of a vote, no? The parallels between the two, in my opinion, are much stronger than people initially consider.

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

This either cannot exist (theoretically, if they were to marry somebody of the opposite sex then they would not be, by definition, gay) or it is trying to establish a "separate but equal" type of scenario. Pretty much forcing them to convert just so they can get a marriage license and, in doing so, completely destroying whatever traditional societal ties that marriage is supposed to have (like being with the person you truly love and all that stuff).
But, in all actuality, that whole phrase you quoted is just a twist of words that is trying to catch logical fallacies and confuse people by using terms that are, in most casual conversational uses, interchangeable. That is, I would like to imagine that, while discussing within the confines of this thread, "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage" could be understood to mean the same thing.

Yes, however, technically a gay man can marry a gay woman.  While it does not make much logical sense, the fact that it is legal and the law will recognize the union is why this is not really a civil rights issue.  It is more of an issue with how government defines marriage.

Clever, but serves more as a joke or extremely literal way of bending the terms to belittle the issue. Have to keep in mind that "government definition" is all that gave blacks those civil rights, too. If the government never changed the definition of a black American, they'd still only count for only three-fifths of a vote, no? The parallels between the two, in my opinion, are much stronger than people initially consider.

That is if government actually defined a gay person as less than another person.  However, they are not and have not defined a gay person as 3/5s of a person. 

I don't really see it as a joke or bending the terms.  I think my example clearly illustrates the differences between civil rights and gay marriage. 

 

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

This either cannot exist (theoretically, if they were to marry somebody of the opposite sex then they would not be, by definition, gay) or it is trying to establish a "separate but equal" type of scenario. Pretty much forcing them to convert just so they can get a marriage license and, in doing so, completely destroying whatever traditional societal ties that marriage is supposed to have (like being with the person you truly love and all that stuff).
But, in all actuality, that whole phrase you quoted is just a twist of words that is trying to catch logical fallacies and confuse people by using terms that are, in most casual conversational uses, interchangeable. That is, I would like to imagine that, while discussing within the confines of this thread, "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage" could be understood to mean the same thing.

Yes, however, technically a gay man can marry a gay woman.  While it does not make much logical sense, the fact that it is legal and the law will recognize the union is why this is not really a civil rights issue.  It is more of an issue with how government defines marriage.

Clever, but serves more as a joke or extremely literal way of bending the terms to belittle the issue. Have to keep in mind that "government definition" is all that gave blacks those civil rights, too. If the government never changed the definition of a black American, they'd still only count for only three-fifths of a vote, no? The parallels between the two, in my opinion, are much stronger than people initially consider.

That is if government actually defined a gay person as less than another person.  However, they are not and have not defined a gay person as 3/5s of a person. 

I don't really see it as a joke or bending the terms.  I think my example clearly illustrates the differences between civil rights and gay marriage. 

 

[realrubirosa]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

Originally Posted by cguy610

Yes, however, technically a gay man can marry a gay woman.  While it does not make much logical sense, the fact that it is legal and the law will recognize the union is why this is not really a civil rights issue.  It is more of an issue with how government defines marriage.

Clever, but serves more as a joke or extremely literal way of bending the terms to belittle the issue. Have to keep in mind that "government definition" is all that gave blacks those civil rights, too. If the government never changed the definition of a black American, they'd still only count for only three-fifths of a vote, no? The parallels between the two, in my opinion, are much stronger than people initially consider.

That is if government actually defined a gay person as less than another person.  However, they are not and have not defined a gay person as 3/5s of a person. 

I don't really see it as a joke or bending the terms.  I think my example clearly illustrates the differences between civil rights and gay marriage. 

All it does is help illustrate the difference between the phrase "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage". There is no logically sound way of saying that the denial of same-sex marriage--a truly gay marriage--is not a civil rights issue.
I'm honestly not very passionate about the subject. It doesn't affect me in the least bit. However, I think it's a right that they should be afforded, and when I hear of people who come from a group that was once oppressed for the same reasons--simply being different--I think that it's totally ridiculous. It took blacks a long fight to get to the status where they were socially accepted and viewed as equals--it's debatable that there still is progress to go in that regard--I think gays are going through an entirely analogous struggle. As Americans, we are supposed to be at least tolerant of others--that's what America is built off of. We're able to, now, practice any religion, be of any race, etc. and have all the same rights. Gays may not be a "race" per se, but they are distinguishable set of people who may not be as oppressed as other sets of people once were, but this is an important issue to them--one that everybody else has--and I think a lot of people let their biases and homophobia get in the way of making a sound decision on how they stand on the subject.

The country and its people are evolving. Such evolution led to the need to have a civil rights movement. Such evolution has put this topic on the table. Those opposing it are, at best, very closed-minded, or, at worst, bigots.

 

[realrubirosa]

Originally Posted by cguy610

Originally Posted by RealRubirosa

Originally Posted by cguy610

Yes, however, technically a gay man can marry a gay woman.  While it does not make much logical sense, the fact that it is legal and the law will recognize the union is why this is not really a civil rights issue.  It is more of an issue with how government defines marriage.

Clever, but serves more as a joke or extremely literal way of bending the terms to belittle the issue. Have to keep in mind that "government definition" is all that gave blacks those civil rights, too. If the government never changed the definition of a black American, they'd still only count for only three-fifths of a vote, no? The parallels between the two, in my opinion, are much stronger than people initially consider.

That is if government actually defined a gay person as less than another person.  However, they are not and have not defined a gay person as 3/5s of a person. 

I don't really see it as a joke or bending the terms.  I think my example clearly illustrates the differences between civil rights and gay marriage. 

All it does is help illustrate the difference between the phrase "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage". There is no logically sound way of saying that the denial of same-sex marriage--a truly gay marriage--is not a civil rights issue.
I'm honestly not very passionate about the subject. It doesn't affect me in the least bit. However, I think it's a right that they should be afforded, and when I hear of people who come from a group that was once oppressed for the same reasons--simply being different--I think that it's totally ridiculous. It took blacks a long fight to get to the status where they were socially accepted and viewed as equals--it's debatable that there still is progress to go in that regard--I think gays are going through an entirely analogous struggle. As Americans, we are supposed to be at least tolerant of others--that's what America is built off of. We're able to, now, practice any religion, be of any race, etc. and have all the same rights. Gays may not be a "race" per se, but they are distinguishable set of people who may not be as oppressed as other sets of people once were, but this is an important issue to them--one that everybody else has--and I think a lot of people let their biases and homophobia get in the way of making a sound decision on how they stand on the subject.

The country and its people are evolving. Such evolution led to the need to have a civil rights movement. Such evolution has put this topic on the table. Those opposing it are, at best, very closed-minded, or, at worst, bigots.

 

[stoneyjax]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Hear me out for a second. It is cool Mike did what he did for his brother, but WHY on God's green earth did he agree to take that super sweet looking picture? I swear famous people must have a contract to give up creative control over their own photoshoots. I don't understand the amount of questionable pictures that these dudes allow themselves to be put in. WHY WHY WHY. Those Kobe pics, Rose's pics, and now this. I don't get it man.

couldnt agree more

 

[stoneyjax]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Hear me out for a second. It is cool Mike did what he did for his brother, but WHY on God's green earth did he agree to take that super sweet looking picture? I swear famous people must have a contract to give up creative control over their own photoshoots. I don't understand the amount of questionable pictures that these dudes allow themselves to be put in. WHY WHY WHY. Those Kobe pics, Rose's pics, and now this. I don't get it man.

couldnt agree more

 

[based mod]

Originally Posted by cguy610

^ To add, what really separates gay marriage from civil rights is that technically, gays can get married, it just has to be someone of the opposite sex. If the laws said that gays could not marry anybody, no matter what, it would be a civil rights issue.

Civil rights include the ensuring of peoples' physical integrity and safety; protection from discrimination on grounds such as physical or mental disability, gender, religion, race, national origin, age, sexual orientation, or gender identity[sup][1][/sup][sup][2][/sup][sup][3][/sup]; and individual rights such as the freedoms of thought and conscience, speech and expression, religion, the press, and movement.




gay can NOT get married to their partners; they're being discriminated against due to their sexual orientation.  that falls in pretty nicely to the definition of civil rights above.

 

[based mod]

Originally Posted by cguy610

^ To add, what really separates gay marriage from civil rights is that technically, gays can get married, it just has to be someone of the opposite sex. If the laws said that gays could not marry anybody, no matter what, it would be a civil rights issue.

Civil rights include the ensuring of peoples' physical integrity and safety; protection from discrimination on grounds such as physical or mental disability, gender, religion, race, national origin, age, sexual orientation, or gender identity[sup][1][/sup][sup][2][/sup][sup][3][/sup]; and individual rights such as the freedoms of thought and conscience, speech and expression, religion, the press, and movement.




gay can NOT get married to their partners; they're being discriminated against due to their sexual orientation.  that falls in pretty nicely to the definition of civil rights above.

 

[essential1]

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

 

[essential1]

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

PREACHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

PREACHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

Gay people in other countries deal with $%$$ black people don't have to deal with in American modern day society. Are the struggles still faced by Black Amerians today still irrelevant because they still aren't lynched but gay people are being killed all over the world. Gays weren't slaves (in this country) and African Americans suffered a somewhat unique struggle in that regard. In the scope of humanity what black people faced is actually a repeat of what a lot of groups have faced throughout human history. African Americans (like myself

) should be proud of being the voice of humanity and equality for this country.

there are a lot of bigots in these threads arguing under the guise of Afro-centrism

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

Gay people in other countries deal with $%$$ black people don't have to deal with in American modern day society. Are the struggles still faced by Black Amerians today still irrelevant because they still aren't lynched but gay people are being killed all over the world. Gays weren't slaves (in this country) and African Americans suffered a somewhat unique struggle in that regard. In the scope of humanity what black people faced is actually a repeat of what a lot of groups have faced throughout human history. African Americans (like myself

) should be proud of being the voice of humanity and equality for this country.

there are a lot of bigots in these threads arguing under the guise of Afro-centrism

 

[foxdawg2000]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Essential1

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

Gay people in other countries deal with $%$$ black people don't have to deal with in American modern day society. Are the struggles still faced by Black Amerians today still irrelevant because they still aren't lynched but gay people are being killed all over the world. Gays weren't slaves (in this country) and African Americans suffered a somewhat unique struggle in that regard. In the scope of humanity what black people faced is actually a repeat of what a lot of groups have faced throughout human history. African Americans (like myself

) should be proud of being the voice of humanity and equality for this country.

there are a lot of bigots in these threads arguing under the guise of Afro-centrism

I think a lot of them are just uncomfortable with their own sexuality so they refuse to put gays in a category with themselves.. That and........ Black struggle always supersedes the issue at hand and any other struggle anywhere because it is always about "ME ME ME" and "my" ancestry... Individuals from many groups somehow always like to put their own struggle at the top of every list when sometimes it's not even about the severity, it's about the overall grasp of what discrimination is, was and always will be no matter who it's cast upon..

 

[foxdawg2000]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Essential1

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

Gay people in other countries deal with $%$$ black people don't have to deal with in American modern day society. Are the struggles still faced by Black Amerians today still irrelevant because they still aren't lynched but gay people are being killed all over the world. Gays weren't slaves (in this country) and African Americans suffered a somewhat unique struggle in that regard. In the scope of humanity what black people faced is actually a repeat of what a lot of groups have faced throughout human history. African Americans (like myself

) should be proud of being the voice of humanity and equality for this country.

there are a lot of bigots in these threads arguing under the guise of Afro-centrism

I think a lot of them are just uncomfortable with their own sexuality so they refuse to put gays in a category with themselves.. That and........ Black struggle always supersedes the issue at hand and any other struggle anywhere because it is always about "ME ME ME" and "my" ancestry... Individuals from many groups somehow always like to put their own struggle at the top of every list when sometimes it's not even about the severity, it's about the overall grasp of what discrimination is, was and always will be no matter who it's cast upon..

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Anton, like I told MethodMan when it comes to vegetarian topics, you need to just poaste a few pre-meditated responses into a word document and paste them into each gay bashing thread.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Anton, like I told MethodMan when it comes to vegetarian topics, you need to just poaste a few pre-meditated responses into a word document and paste them into each gay bashing thread.

 

[superblytrife]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[superblytrife]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Saying they are similar and in the same category does not mean they are EQUAL in severity...

Civil Rights is not a made up term from the 1960's it has been around a long time, and has applied to almost every group imagined.. But because you hate gay people or have a secret that you keep locked in your anti-gay Chastity Belt, it is not no longer a CIVIL RIGHT.... Because you are too idiotic to admit you are absolutely wrong and being gay for most people is just something they never had control over..

No one is saying that Gay People have been even remotely harmed as a whole as much as black people.. But to say that gay people have not been socially outcasted, discriminated against by religious agendas, and conservative closeted homosexuals is pure ignorance...

Has a gay couple been denied loans? YES...

Have gay couples been denied the ability to adopt a child WHO ACTUALLY NEEDS A HOME? YES

Have gay couples been banished from membership of groups and certain property because of their sexuality? Yes

Have gay couples been told that their LOVE is not nearly as moral and RIGHT as a straight couple? Yes

Has the defense of marriage act discriminated against gay people? Yes

Have the bravest citizens we have in this United States who voluntarily served this country get a slap in the face if they are outed? Yes

Have gay people been publicly assualted verbal just for being gay? Yes

Have gay people been physically assualted just for being gay? Yes

Has a gay person's funeral been protested on the grounds he was gay? Yes

Have gay people been called all the names in the book in a derogatory sense, and been called the "problem of society today?" Yes

Have gay people been murdered for their sexuality? Yes

Have gay people been ridiculed to the point that they begin to hate themselves, and feel as if they are inadequate or something is wrong with them? Yes

Has this Gay Bashing been known to push teenagers to commit suicide? Yes


No one is saying that Gay people are treated nearly as badly as Black people were treated as slaves.. But what is ignorant is people saying it is not the same, and the explanation is nothing more than a cover that you are against it... If you can't see that Gay People are and were discriminated far beyond not being allowed to marry not only are you ignorant, you look like a fool for not supporting them because you know through history and in your everyday life, what it is to be discriminated against because you are "NOT NORMAL"


And it is not downgrading th 1960's Civil RIghts movement by supporting the fight against Anti-Gay measure... What is downgrading the 1960's civil rights movie is many people's complete ignorance of what the leaders of the time..  Accepting people for what they truly are

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[nosqadupper]

Some of you really need to read a book or go to school. A lot of you are throwing out terms that you don't understand.
1. Civil rights are those rights given to all US citizens under the constitution.  Everyone has these rights no matter what your race or sexual orientation is.  Civil rights have nothing to do with black people, with the exception that we were denied certain civil rights.  It is a term that's applicable to any US citizen and black people do not own it like some of you seem to believe.

2. There are 2 distinct components to marriage.  There is the legal aspect and also the religious aspect.  Marriage predates any religion, and it certainly predates your specific religion.  As such, there is a foundation for there to be laws governing marriage.  Since there are laws governing marriage, the legal aspect of marriage is the only one that matters.  The religious aspect is between you and your god.  No one else cares.  However since there are laws governing marriage, they must be applied to everyone within the boundaries of the constitution.

3. There are rights that are not specifically in the constitution but that are still given the same protection.  These are called fundamental rights.  They include things such as the right to privacy and the right to marry.  Everyone has the right to marry.  Since everyone has this right, any restriction on the right is going to be unconstitutional.  If no one were allowed to marry, it would be a restriction of substantive due process.  Instead, only a certain group is not allowed to marry.  This is a violation of the Equal Protection clause.

4. Equal protection questions start with the identification of the class being discriminated against.  Any discrimination based on race or religion is going to be subject to strict scrutiny.  Usually, discrimination based on sexual orientation would be subject to intermediate scrutiny, which is a lower standard.  However, since the right to marry is a fundamental right, it will be subject to strict scrutiny. In order for the ban on gay marriage to stand, the state must have a compelling interest.  Most strict scrutiny laws are struck down as unconstitutional.

5. The issue now is that marriage has traditionally been governed by individual states, which is why some allow it and some don't.  Because of DOMA, the federal government doesn't enforce the full faith and credit clause, which would require all states to recognize the gay marriages performed in other states.  However, as stated in #4, DOMA is unconsitutional.  Obama's administration has recently said that it will no longer defend this act in courts, and I think recently they started actions to have it declared unconstitutional.  This is an inevitability.  DOMA will be gone, along with it's definition of a marriage as being between a man and a woman, and states will have to recognize those marriages performed in other states and eventually will be forced to allow it themselves, because any law against it will be similarly unconstitutional.  Any argument against this is not based in fact or reality.

A couple more points, freedom of religion will not be impacted by this, because this only affects legal marriages.  No one is forcing religions to perform marriages that they are against.  Only states will be.  Second, the argument that any gay person is currently able to get married to someone of the opposite sex is irrational.  The right is the right to marry the person of your choosing.  Currently only gay people are denied this.  Now usually comes the slippery slope fallacy.  What about incest? What about polygamy? Where those arguments fail is that being gay is who you are.  Incest and polygamy are choices.  Gay marriage is not about legislating moral behavior.  It is giving a class of people equal rights.  A ban on gay marriage is a denial of rights based not on who someone loves, but who they are as a person.  It is saying that who homosexuals are as people is wrong and that they are incapable of having traditional sexual values (like someone who practices incest or polygamy).  This is wrong and the reason why black people like myself draw the comparison to our own struggle is because a ban on same sex marriage, and the comparisons to sexually deviant behavior, are very similar to calling someone less than a person.  Just not in so many words.  A gay couple is not different than a straight couple, yet by saying that they can't possibly have the same values as you do because they are gay, you are saying that they are less than you.  Maybe 3/5ths of you?...