My bestfriend is trying to "save" me. Vol: Religion & Politics.

[i am knowledge]

This is a pretty long read, and if you'd like to leave your input without reading all the text, I've highlighted the main questions at the bottom ofthe post.

I've decided to make this post against my better judgment considering these are very sensitive subjects, and too many times these types of post have goneon tangents that were unnecessary.

However, I had a conversation with a friend of mine that really rubbed me the wrong way, and I need to vent, while also receiving opinions from others.

To begin, we are both young black men, who were raised with Christian ideals. He says that he holds everything in the Bible to be totally factual. I, on theother hand believe that the Bible has some good lessons that are relevant in today's world, but I also think that the Bible was mans attempt to understandthe unknown, and knowing what he know today, it is not logical to follow religion blindly while rejecting everything else that can possibly contradict theBible's context. This info may seem irrelevant, but I feel as if it's important to mention due to the context of the conversation.

Now that that is out of the way. We were having a discussion, and I said that I believe that God helps those who choose to help themselves, and that while attimes I'll pray for change, I'll also do everything possible to work and initiate that change through my own actions. He than got on his soapbox andtold me that I was wrong, I lacked faith and since everything happens according to God's plan, me working to improve myself, and the world proves that Ilack faith. And basically, if I really believed and had faith than I wouldn't worry about doing things on my own. Just pray, sit still and things willhappen. Let go, and let God. I think this mentality is foolish, and it leads to stagnation.

So we started talking about politics, and he said that he refuses to vote, because he feels as if everything is already predetermined. He believes that by himutilizing his right to vote is getting away of the Lord's will. And even if a politician got into office who was corrupt, it's necessary for him tohave that position in order for prophecy to be fulfilled.

Normally things don't bother me, and I always respect others opinions, but this really got to me because he was speaking as if I was wrong and I'veexperienced turbulence in my life because of my views.

This is one of my best friends, and whenever we aren't talking about religion everything is always cool. But lately, he's been on this mission thatGod's telling him that he needs to save me.

I'm frustrated, and normally I'd tell dude to get lost, but this is someone that I've grown up with.

So my question is, how do you all I suggest telling this dude to back off? I've tried telling my dude that we have adifferent belief system, and it's ok to agree to disagree, but dude will not leave me alone.

I have a feeling that we won't be friends too much longer if this keeps up, and I'd hate to lose a good friend forsomething so trivial.

And my last question is, do you all know any people who have this same belief system and mentality?

 

[mvp07]

Word to Remy Zero.

On a serious note, I am in the same predicament. I am a christian (Orthodox) so I already found my religion and what not. But my friend suddenly decided to bean "evangelist" & Now he is talking about being saved, this and that. Finally it got to a point where he is forcing it on me every chance he gets& it got to a point where it was too much and I just simply ignored him, needless to say I haven't talked to him in quite a while. I personallydon't have a problem with him nor religion but don't force it on me, it is like a damn recruit.

 

[dunknforce]

Tell your guy, Do you consider God to be infinite(as in, all powerful, all knowing, yadda yadd)? he will say yes

Get at him with, Do you consider yourself to be finite, limited, in life and what you can do? he will say yes again


Tell him, If your church is made of finite beings, then how in the world can they summerize and know what an Infinite Supreme being has to tell you and such

I agree with you, that Change comes within yourself... you need FAITH in yourself, and a solid belief that you will be sucessful down the road...

I believe in God, I was born and raised into christianity.... I believe God works through all religions, bc every river leads to the source, River beingreligion, and source being God


Or tell him you believe life on earth is Gods ultimate blessing and for that sake you believe this is the first of many levels of heaven... tell him God gaveyou VIP after that

I have alot to say... if you want to discuss further, hit me with a PM, MSN OR AIM is cool

 

[aepps20]

I am a devout Christian and I believe in everything the Bible says but to be honest with you I don't really like people that try to force Christianity ontopeople. Most of my friends aren't Christian but we get along fine because it sounds like what your friend is doing is judging you and that's not right.Part of being a Christian is living your life in such a way that people can see Christ through you and in turn they want to have Christ in their lives.

 

[darthska]

And basically, if I really believed and had faith than I wouldn't worry about doing things on my own. Just pray, sit still and things will happen. Let go, and let God.
If I could smack the holy hell outta your boy...

Remind him that there is not ONE miracle performed by Jesus where the person receiving the blessing was allowed to just hang out and receive blessing. It wasalways the case that people were already doing something, and once they relied on Jesus' help, their effort was magnified.

Somewhere along the way, your boy got the idea that faith by itself is good enough to get by.

You said that he said he takes the Bible literally? Have him read James 2:14-26

James 2.14-26:

---

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder!

20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"-and he was called a friend of God.
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
In short: faith without action is DEAD.

 

[38690]

a

 

[vixiv]

Originally Posted by I AM KNOWLEDGE

I believe that God helps those who choose to help themselves, and that while at times I'll pray for change, I'll also do everything possible to work and initiate that change through my own actions.

You and me both.

 

[nyvictory45]

Honestly I don't know what you can do. If your friend can't understand that the both of you have different beliefs and to just drop it you might haveto just keep your distance.

 

[onhollowedground821]

Agree to Disagree........Plain and simple tell him that if he cant exept it then he's not doing the Godly thing........God gives you free will to believeor not to believe in him (that takes serious love), and if he is trying to be like his father in Heaven he must do the same, you are free to believe what youwill and he can continue to pray for you but he's gotta realize he can not force it upon you

 

[darthska]

^ Did you read the dilemma? It's really not an issue of one person saying 'I believe in God and you should, too' and the other saying 'Nah,I'm good. Thanks, though.'

It seems like your response has you believing that's what the dilemma is.

 

[af1pops12]

I'm a christian and I believe everything that the bible says, but i have some friends that dont believe in everything thats in it, but i dont go aroundarguing with them. I can't lie at first i did but one thing i learned is that you cant be accountable for anyone but yourself so why waste your breath. Tome its kinda like having a favorite basketball team and your friend has a different one.

 

[onhollowedground821]

^ isnt he saying his boy is basically trying to shove his beliefs in his face? did I read wrong?

 

[shaolinswordz32]

although i know not all christians believe in the "pre-destination" doctrine, my household did as i was growing up. my moms was a devout christianand would always tell me as i was growing up that everything in this world is according to god's will and theres nothing we could do about it. as mostchildren do, i thought about it and questioned her but nothing malicious of course. when i would ask her things like "if God already decides everythingfor us, then he knows whos going to heaven and hell. if thats the case, then if i can go out and murder someone with no repercussions because God already knowsif i will go to heaven or hell", she would just say "if its god's will its god's will".

i wouldnt say i based my negative choices on this doctrine but it was a factor. i got caught up in negative things and i would tell myself "it'sgod's will". after a while i got sick of it and questioned God all together. one day i messed with some chick, got some symptoms and thought i hadHIV. i promised myself if it wasnt, i would go back to God. thank goodness it wasnt and i tried to live up to my promise through this type of christianity buti couldnt accept it. how can an all merciful, loving God give you no say in your salvation? this is the time i came to Islam. the main reason i becameattracted to it was because it answered pre destination the way i wanted to hear it. God is all knowing and all powerful but he gives man the chance to maketheir own choices although he already knows what it is.

if your friend is a good person, let him believe what he wants to believe but in my honest opinion and from my self experiences, pre-destination seems as sortof a scapegoat for your actions. when i got thrown in jail for robbery, i just shrugged it off and said "it's in God's plan" and startedplanning my next job

 

[dunknforce]

tell him the bible says God lives in you.... IDK the passages, but isnt there one where its like, I live in you, so be like me... not word for word, but stilla tacky saying


So you cant lose either way, and that his focus prolly distracts him from his future of golden streets and w/e HE believes is in heaven....

 

[i am knowledge]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

And basically, if I really believed and had faith than I wouldn't worry about doing things on my own. Just pray, sit still and things will happen. Let go, and let God.

If I could smack the holy hell outta your boy...

Remind him that there is not ONE miracle performed by Jesus where the person receiving the blessing was allowed to just hang out and receive blessing. It was always the case that people were already doing something, and once they relied on Jesus' help, their effort was magnified.

Somewhere along the way, your boy got the idea that faith by itself is good enough to get by.

You said that he said he takes the Bible literally? Have him read James 2:14-26

James 2.14-26:

---

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"-and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

In short: faith without action is DEAD.

Hey man, I really appreciate your feedback, especially the verses. I guess if I could describe myself it would be a non-traditional protestant, but reallyI stopped trying to label myself awhile ago.
I tried to tell my dude that who we are and what we believe all comes from personal experience. He and I both have experienced traumatic events at ayoung age. However, our road to recovery was vastly different.

He was in a car accident, in a coma, and more personal information. And in a year he was on his feet, and he didn't have to go through the physicaltherapy process. He just layed in his room, and in a short time span he got better.

Me, not so much. I had a visceral tumor that damaged my spinal cord, incomplete t-2, and I also bounced back, but I had to work like heck!

I guess he feels since he prayed while basically doing nothing, that, that's how God works. I'm thrilled to DEATH that he didn't have to take thesame voyage as me. Thank God he didn't have any neurological damage. Now him being alive and walking and running right now is a miracle, no doubt aboutit, his heart stopped twice, he was on ESPN. But he's developed a superiority complex through this, and feels as if if everyone followed his beliefsystem, they'd all be enlightened.

And I'm not ashamed to say, I've got a lot of love for my friend, and it took almost losing him for me to put the macho stuff aside and learn how toexpress endearment towards those close to me. But when I hit him up and say, lets go to BW3's and get some wings, and I get the response, you know what,God told me that you'd call me today and that you'd be hungry. But you aren't hungry for wings, you're hungry for the spirit. And I'mlike sooooo, the game starts in about 30 minutes.

Ska, I appreciate you coming in this thread. I was very close to putting your screen name in the thread title, but I know it's not fair to request anyoneto give you free advice. I can't honestly say I respect many people that I meet on a message board, because it's hard for me to respect person fromonly one facet of communication.

However, you put it all out there, you are who you are, and you are unapologetic about it. So we may disagree, as people do (I'm still working on theresponse to our Abe Lincoln convo, but you did give me a dissertation

) , but regardless of that, I can say that I respect you.

Thanks again for your input, and I appreciate the others who have responded to this thread.

 

[i am knowledge]

Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

^ isnt he saying his boy is basically trying to shove his beliefs in his face? did I read wrong?

You didn't read that part wrong, but there was more to it than that.
Basically we were both raised in families that honored Christian values.

We are like Barack and Hillary, we both believe in 95 percent of the same things.

But to him, that 5 percent makes me less enlightened, a heathen, and since I'm generally wise, he can't understand why I don't agree with his ideasbecause to him, "It's in the Bible, and it all makes perfect sense."

I never bring up religious discussions, he always initiates them.

And not to make my friend come across as a dummy, he's far from that, but today he wanted to argue for 20 minutes when I told him the word conversate wasnot in the dictionary, and although it has been accepted by many people, it's technically not a word. I guess that was my sign to not discuss anythingwith him that can lead to an argument because if this dude believes something, he won't shut up about it.

 

[onhollowedground821]

So basicly he takes the bible for what it is and you dont believe all of it? just some? either way he's gotta let you think what you wannathink........God's free will to believe or not

 

[adagu]

Originally Posted by ShaolinSwordz32

this is the time i came to Islam. the main reason i became attracted to it was because it answered pre destination the way i wanted to hear it. God is all knowing and all powerful but he gives man the chance to make their own choices although he already knows what it is.

The same goes for Christianity. I'm a Christian and that's exactly how I see God. He gives us the ability to make our own decisions but He alreadyknows what they're going to be.

 

[dunknforce]

basicaly his friend is intolerant, and must be jewish

tell him God tolerates everything, and is powerful enough to destroy evil, but chooses not to, and so you believe not to believe the exact thing your friendbelieves

bluntly

 

[38690]

a

 

[darthska]

I AM KNOWLEDGE:

---

Ska, I appreciate you coming in this thread. I was very close to putting your screen name in the thread title, but I know it's not fair to request anyone to give you free advice. I can't honestly say I respect many people that I meet on a message board, because it's hard for me to respect person from only one facet of communication.

However, you put it all out there, you are who you are, and you are unapologetic about it. So we may disagree, as people do (I'm still working on the response to our Abe Lincoln convo, but you did give me a dissertation

) , but regardless of that, I can say that I respect you.

Thanks again for your input.
I just wanted to respond to this real quick. I didn't want to leave it alone and come off like a prick, so I'll just quote it and saythanks for the kind words.

One thing, though: one of the things I pride myself in is knowing that the things I know aren't really as concrete as I might like to believe. I don'tbelieve I'm unapologetic in the presentation of my ideas, and if that's how I've been coming across, I'll definitely keep that in mind, makinga more concerted effort to come off less confident and more open-minded. One of my peeves is getting into a debate with someone who stubbornly refuses toentertain the possibility that his opinion is simply... false.

As for the Lincoln discussion in the MLK, Jr thread: I had completely forgotten about that 'till you just brought it up.